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Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by Verdi on 04.04.16 12:42

@BlueBag wrote:
@Mariita wrote:I don't believe this has anything to do with how many or how few have read the files. So SY will finally, after 'enough' public awareness, change direction and turn their eyes on the parents plus friends? No, don't think that will happen....ever no
There has never been anything stopping them turning their attention to parents and friends.

It would be bog standard policing.

Something we have yet to see from the UK police.
According to ex-DCI Andy Redwood, Operation Grange was to take everything back to the beginning and start afresh - therefore their first port of call would naturally be to investigate the parents and their friends.  They had already taken two years to study the translated PJ files before commencing a renewed investigation, yet on the surface they chose to completely ignore the work undertaken by the PJ immediately following Madeleine's disappearance.

I haven't a clue what's been going on behind closed doors at the Belgravia incident room these past five years but I have seen information that has been put out out for public consumption i.e. Crimewatch, press coverage of their various 007'esque (non productive) trips to Portugal and the many up-dates of their latest whimsical lines of inquiry.

If the McCanns and/or their friends are the focus of their attention, why the need to publicize inconsequential e-fits of Mr. Nobody and spread abroad ridiculous stories about burglars etc.

Long and short of it is, UK law enforcement agencies have no jurisdiction over a case such as this so the whole fiasco is nothing but a total waste of time and public money.  Unless the case is an element of something on a national/international scale that can take years to come together - considering some of the information contained in the PJ files, that is a distinct possibility but I doubt if Operation Grange would have been assigned to undertake an inquiry/investigation if that be the case.  Only as a cover-up but that takes us back to square one.

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.04.16 12:54

@HiDeHo wrote:Lol Tony...Yes, you are right about whos right or wrong...I was thinking in relation to right now though...and who's right or wrong regarding how we all get along...(or something like that)     

Regarding my stance on OG, as someone pointed out to me, they don't share my optimism but they share my standpoint as we don't know what has been happening in the investigation, who has been questioned, what has been asked etc. I will need to hear (in a direct quote from SY)  what has been accomplished/not accomplished in the investigation before I make any assumptions.  I'm not good at guessing.
12.13pm over here, either 6.13am or 7.13am over there, 'on the case' bright and early once again I see, Lizzie thumbup

Right, here's another challenge for you. You said you have no idea...

* what's been happening in the investigation
* who has been questioned
* what has ben asked 
* what has been accomplished/not accomplished.

On the contrary. Let me answer you with a direct quote from a 2015 Guardian article;

QUOTE

In a statement, police said the vast majority of the work reviewing all the material collated since May 2007 has now been completed and encompasses more than 40,000 documents from UK and foreign law enforcement agencies, as well as various private investigation companies.

No arrests have been made, despite officers investigating 60 people of interest, taking 1,338 statements, collecting 1,027 exhibits and investigating 560 lines of enquiry.

The Met said it had investigated 650 known sex offenders in connection with the case, as well as reports of 8,685 potential sightings of Madeleine around the world, receiving 200 emails a week from members of the public.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/28/met-reduces-officers-madeleine-mccann-case-29-to-four

UNQUOTE

Now, the above list of statistics excludes a number of other things that OG previously listed, e.g.

1. Examining over 10,000 mobile 'phone call records
2. Applying for mobile 'phone data from 31 countries
3. Applying for numerous rogatary interviews of suspects etc.

In addition to that, OG publicly named IIRC 11 suspects who were to be interviewed and, Lizzie, they even told us that each one would be asked a proforma list of IIRC 254 questions, one of which was 'Did you kill Madeleine McCann?"    

Plus, as I said before, we have had paraded for us in the British press a smelly bin man, a tractor driver from the Cape Verde Islands, an OC bloke with duplicate keys, six men in a white van, and so on and so forth.

My point?

That we do already know a heck of a lot about this investigation.

And I stick by saying that all of this is elaborate window dressing, sheer smoke and mirrors, to create an entirely false impression that this is a bona fide criminal investigation. Was that Crimewatch programme in 2013 designed to find the abductor? No, no, a thousand times no. It was heavily marketed so that 7 million people watched it. The programme successfully reinforced public perception about 'the abduction'.    

======

P.S.  You wrote:   "At least I didn't spell it 'whose'..."  winkwink

REPLY: Hmmm, my goodness, yes, that would have made things even worse  winkwink

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by HiDeHo on 04.04.16 13:01

@Mariita wrote:
@HiDeHo wrote:Lol Tony :)

Yes, you are right about whos right or wrong... I was thinking in relation to right now though... and who's right or wrong regarding how we all get along... (or something like that)  laughat   At least I didn't spell it 'whose'  winkwink

Regarding my stance on OG, as someone pointed out to me, they don't share my optimism but they share my standpoint as we don't know what has been happening in the investigation, who has been questioned, what has been asked etc

I will need to hear (in a direct quote from SY)  what has been accomplished/not accomplished in the investigation before I make any assumptions.  I'm not good at guessing.
The parents and their holiday friends are no suspects - isn't that a direct quote from SY?

OG may very well have said that... BUT there are several lines of inquiry... so maybe not suspects in ONE line of Inquiry 

Also... not suspects as of that moment... Does that mean they cant be suspects at a later date...  They are not CLASSIFIED as suspects at that time..

Remember what happened before?



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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by HiDeHo on 04.04.16 13:31

TONY wrote:P.S.  You wrote:   "At least I didn't spell it 'whose'..."  

REPLY: Hmmm, my goodness, yes, that would have made things even worse  



That was in reference to my recent incorrect use of that word that Tony corrected me on.  English grammar was not my best subject and in preparation for my 'O' levels I was told to learn it parrot fashion...lol  However, it has never stopped me, and I welcome being corrected. Thanks Tony  smilie


Regarding this 


TONY wrote:Right, here's another challenge for you. You said you have no idea...

* what's been happening in the investigation
* who has been questioned
* what has ben asked 
* what has been accomplished/not accomplished.

On the contrary. Let me answer you with a direct quote from a 2015 Guardian article;

QUOTE

In a statement, police said the vast majority of the work reviewing all the material collated since May 2007 has now been completed and encompasses more than 40,000 documents from UK and foreign law enforcement agencies, as well as various private investigation companies.

No arrests have been made, despite officers investigating 60 people of interesttaking 1,338 statementscollecting 1,027 exhibits and investigating 560 lines of enquiry.

The Met said it had investigated 650 known sex offenders in connection with the case, as well as reports of 8,685 potential sightings of Madeleine around the world, receiving 200 emails a week from members of the public.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/28/met-reduces-officers-madeleine-mccann-case-29-to-four

UNQUOTE

Now, the above list of statistics excludes a number of other things that OG previously listed, e.g.

1. Examining over 10,000 mobile 'phone call records
2. Applying for mobile 'phone data from 31 countries
3. Applying for numerous rogatary interviews of suspects etc.

In addition to that, OG publicly named IIRC 11 suspects who were to be interviewed and, Lizzie, they even told us that each one would be asked a proforma list of IIRC 254 questions, one of which was 'Did you kill Madeleine McCann?"    

Plus, as I said before, we have had paraded for us in the British press a smelly bin man, a tractor driver from the Cape Verde Islands, an OC bloke with duplicate keys, six men in a white van, and so on and so forth.

My point?

That we do already know a heck of a lot about this investigation.

And I stick by saying that all of this is elaborate window dressing, sheer smoke and mirrors, to create an entirely false impression that this is a bona fide criminal investigation. Was that Crimewatch programme in 2013 designed to find the abductor? No, no, a thousand times no. It was heavily marketed so that 7 million people watched it. The programme successfully reinforced public perception about 'the abduction'.   

YES!! You are right!

I have to admit to passing all of that off as only an effort to eliminate as much as possible so 'no stone left unturned' if ever there was need for the McCanns to use an 'unfinished' investigation as part of their defence.

They have SEVERAL lines of Inquiry and one of them has to be regarding the information about the McCanns...

THATS the part of the investigation (one of the lines of Inquiry) that we have no information on.

What they have looked at (or are looking at) regarding the events and statement contradictions of the McCanns and the Tapas7...and the dogs.... and the DNA etc etc  winkwink

I passed information to SY that there may have been a car used by them during the week (no confirmation if it WAS used during that week) but the information WAS reviewed and accepted and entered into the investigation.

That little piece of info is not floating about on its own... Its there with all the OTHER info about the McCanns  smilie

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by noddy100 on 04.04.16 13:57

@Doug D wrote:Good to see Tracey is always on the ball with her impeccable reporting and always gets it right!

19th September 2015:

 


3rd April 2016:

why change the spelling?

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by aquila on 04.04.16 14:41

@noddy100 wrote:
@Doug D wrote:Good to see Tracey is always on the ball with her impeccable reporting and always gets it right!

19th September 2015:

 


3rd April 2016:

why change the spelling?
Yesterday's internet version of Tracey Kandohla's name in the Express was placed in caps and showed KANDOHIA.

You can't make this stuff up.

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by comperedna on 04.04.16 16:13

But that's exactly what they do...police, press and the main players... make the stuff up... and at our expense...sigh.

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by whodunit on 04.04.16 16:52

As far as we know, has SY ever done their own interviews of the McCanns or any of the Tapas group? If not, why not?

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by Verdi on 04.04.16 17:07

Operation Grange - Official Remit..


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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by HiDeHo on 04.04.16 17:34

@whodunit wrote:As far as we know, has SY ever done their own interviews of the McCanns or any of the Tapas group? If not, why not?


We don't know...

So..

SY don't seem to have a good reputation and along with the possible political  'coverup'  there is a belief  there is a 'whitewash'.

Have SY ever had major and successful investigations?

As pointed out by Tony, the media/SY have given info about 'suspects' and activities digging in PdL.  I see that as ultimately a POSITIVE as there can be no claims in any possible future defence that all lines of inquiry were not followed as well as it suggests the probability of NO abductor.

They claim the McCanns are not suspects, but that is non specific over a period of time as that could change at any minute or just be referring to ONE or so lines of inquiry.  Have they ever said the McCanns have been eliminated from ALL their lines of inquiry?

Have they given ANY details regarding the McCanns?

Are they ALLOWED to give any details regarding the McCanns in the current investigation or is there something in place similar to the PJ investigation where they were (according to Goncalo Amaral) required to sign a confidentiality agreement...







I am not saying there is NOT a 'whitewash'.  There is no proof and unless/until I hear something that confirms the probability I remain hopeful there is not.


Regarding the info about the CURRENT investigation, I can't make any judgement on what they have and haven't done regarding the McCanns as I dont know and as far as I know,  none of us do.

I also do not know if they are sworn to secrecy about any line of inquiry that may refer to the McCanns.

I don't recall seeing anything to say they have been eliminated from all lines of inquiry...

I also have no idea when they close the investigation whether they can charge the McCanns for anything other than Fund Fraud.


All I am saying regarding Scotland Yard is that I DON'T KNOW and apart from the details Tony pointed out... DOES ANYONE KNOW?

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Helping the family

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.04.16 17:37

@whodunit wrote:As far as we know, has SY ever done their own interviews of the McCanns or any of the Tapas group?
YES. They have >>>

1. Invited them, especially Kate McCann, to assist a forensic artist to draw up an 'age-progressed' sketch of Madeleine as she might look at around the age of 9 or 10. Kate McCann's input was said by D C I Andy Redwood to have been 'very helpful'

2. According again to D C I Redwood but also to the McCanns, the McCanns have been regularly briefed by the SY team and kept abreast of all developments, including Redwood's TV apperarances. The McCanns have often professed themselves 'satisfied' or even 'very satisfied' with the 'progress' being made by the SY team [even though that seems to be no progress at all], and

3. The McCanns and their team gave the BBC extensive assistance with the details of the 'reconstruction' used in the Crimewatch McCann Special of 14 October 2013, probably being able to have the final say-so over the script to be used. Though the BBC is supposed to be neutral, and is supposed to have 'investigative jourmalists on its staff, the reconstruction portrayed the events of that week in Praia da Luz in complete accordance with the McCann Team's script.

So @ whodunit, lots of interviews by SY with the McCanns, but not one of them likely to have been an 'interview under caution'.

That was never going to be likely given that on the day the SY Review was announced (12 May 2011), the Prime Minister's spokesman expressly stated that the purpose of the SY Review was, quote, 'to help the family'.

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by HiDeHo on 04.04.16 17:42

@TONY BENNETT wrote:So @ whodunitlots of interviews by SY with the McCanns, but not one of them likely to have been an 'interview under caution'.

That was never going to be likely given that on the day the SY Review was announced (12 May 2011), the Prime Minister's spokesman expressly stated that the purpose of the SY Review was, quote, 'to help the family'.

So what does he know  winkwink

What are your thoughts regarding the secrecy agreement from the original investigation?

Could it be in place once again?

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.04.16 18:04

@HiDeHo wrote:
What are your thoughts regarding the secrecy agreement from the original investigation? Could it be in place once again?
Secrecy?!*?!@*?!!

One of the few things that I find truly laughable about Operation Grange has been the way they often trotted out, parrot-like, the phrase: "We are not going to give a running commentary on our investigation". 

Yet we have had...

* numerous press releases and statements

* Redwood touring the TV studios

* Grange officers filmed collecting boxes from Metodo 3

* Grange officers filmed in helicopters and with pickaxes 

* regular updates on how many documents have been studied (to the nearest whole number), numbers of suspects, mobile 'phones checked, rogatory letters issued, sex offenders checked out, lines of enquiry pursued, suspects interviewed (and their names given as well, even though they were not arrested), number of lines of enquiry pursued, statements taken, exhibits found and labeled...you name it - they've counted it! And told us

* regular leaks about a whole swathe of possible suspects

* their own hour-long TV show, provided courtesy of the BBC...

...there has never been an investigation in the history of this nation with such a constant running commentary being given    

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by whodunit on 04.04.16 18:13

Thanks for your reply, @Tony Bennett.

I wonder how long the Home Office will keep up with these 6 months extensions? It's quite a good strategy if the intent is to prevent the McCanns from having to go out of pocket to find their 'missing' child.

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by Verdi on 04.04.16 19:26

@whodunit wrote:Thanks for your reply, @Tony Bennett.

I wonder how long the Home Office will keep up with these 6 months extensions? It's quite a good strategy if the intent is to prevent the McCanns from having to go out of pocket to find their 'missing' child.
I think quite a lot of dirty washing has been laundered since this masquerade hit the headlines in May 2007.

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by NickE on 04.04.16 19:40

I believe the main reason why the case is not solved after 9 years is that all focus has been on May 3 from start but I hope SY have lifted their eyes from that date and have rewind the tape to Sunday/Monday.
Even if they have become aware of these days there will be trouble I think, there´s lack of witness statements and observations from these days because no one paid any attention,all were fooled.
Iám still positive because there are people who knows what happened and they are the weak link and that link get weaker and weaker for every year.

IMO

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by HiDeHo on 04.04.16 19:48

I will just say that I don't know if it's a whitewash or how much jurisdiction SY have over the main part of the case regarding the McCanns being complicit, dogs, DNA etc.  Fund?...maybe.

Unless/Until I hear that the McCanns are eliminated from all lines of inquiry or they were never included in the investigation, I'm not prepared to accuse SY of anything

What I am looking forward to is the PJ investigation, and of course Goncalo Amaral decision.

Can't wait for both of THOSE threads  smilie

BTW...Thanks everyone for challenging me on my thoughts.  I have always loved discussions with 'pros' as well for that reason.  Makes me second guess myself or realise I'm wrong.

I have learned a lot from CMOMM discussions. Thanks Tony and Jill (I'm not going anywhere...just felt like saying that)  laughat

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by Verdi on 04.04.16 20:08

@HiDeHo wrote:

"I see that as ultimately a POSITIVE as there can be no claims in any possible future defence that all lines of inquiry were not followed as well as it suggests the probability of NO abductor."

That is not a possibility.  The UK cannot prosecute in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the Portuguese authorities were, and still are, the primary investigative force. 

I don't recall ever having heard of the accused using 'unfinished' investigation as part of their defence - I think the very notion would be laughed out of court.  That aside, even if the scenario is a possibility, there is no way the McCanns can use it.  When the case was archived by the Portuguese authorities back in the summer of 2008, the McCanns had every opportunity to contest the archiving process but they didn't do that did they?  Instead they publicly expressed relief that their ordeal was over and the arguido status lifted - or so they thought + and more importantly still, the McCanns failed to fully cooperative with the Portuguese police during the official investigation + the remainder of the Tapas crew declined to assist the PJ by returning to PdL for a reconstruction!

"Have they given ANY details regarding the McCanns?"

Perhaps you can answer that as you said up-thread..

"They have SEVERAL lines of Inquiry and one of them has to be regarding the information about the McCanns..."

"What they have looked at (or are looking at) regarding the events and statement contradictions of the McCanns and the Tapas7...and the dogs.... and the DNA etc etc"


"I also have no idea when they close the investigation whether they can charge the McCanns for anything other than Fund Fraud."

As I said previously, Operation Grange is part of the Serious Crimes and Homicide Squad.  Their initial remit was to coordinate all case documentation, including that of the dubious private detectives engaged by McCann Inc. (snort!) and to undertake an independent inquiry, which two years later turned into yet another official (for the want of a better word) investigation. 

For the fund to be investigated by the Fraud Squad, it will first be essential to determine that Madeleine is no longer alive and that the McCanns and the board of directors appointed to administer the fund are aware that Madeleine is no longer alive.  I don't think the Inc. are stupid enough to lay themselves open to fraud by way of this fund management - significantly why I imagine, they elected for a limited company rather than the more appropriate charity label.

Cunning.  Not clever - cunning!

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by Verdi on 04.04.16 20:36

Apologies for going off top for a moment but I had to chuckle.

I received a letter today from HM Revenue and Customs asking instructing me (shiver shiver shake and quiver) to verify something by way of an official declaration.

Not for them the landlord of the local 'Pig and Whistle' who's probably the most honest bloke you could ever meet.  No, not for them some lowly, probably dishonest burly chavvy publican - they look to the more upstanding members of society, such as doctors, lawyers, police chiefs and such like.

Now where did I put that yellow pages directory, must be somebody in there that will verify a document for someone they don't know from adam - for a fixed nominal fee.  Rats, Berty would do it for a pint..

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by HiDeHo on 04.04.16 21:25

Verdi, I don't always express what I mean correctly. :)

As mentioned I don't know what SY can prosecute the McCanns for or what they could achieve regarding the McCanns and the investigation thats within their jurisdiction.  (Hence I'm still looking for an answer to what could they produce as a best case scenario when closed.

What I (maybe naively) meant was IF there was ever a trial in Portugal, then all bases have been covered, no stone unturned as I thought that maybe they would be able to claim that suspects were not followed up.

I'll stick to my timelines :)

Say 'Hi' to Berty from me :)

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by aquila on 04.04.16 22:00

@comperedna wrote:But that's exactly what they do...police, press and the main players... make the stuff up... and at our expense...sigh.
At the expense of securing justice for Madeleine McCann.

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by Verdi on 04.04.16 22:14

@HideHo wrote:  Verdi, I don't always express what I mean correctly. :)

Neither do I big grin !

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Re: Sky News - 6 months to find Maddie

Post by comperedna on 05.04.16 14:03

Indeed, yes, Aquila.

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