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***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by pennylane on 21.02.16 19:43

@kaz wrote:@ penny lane ( quote )
eta, Surely if as many people were 'in on it' as has been claimed, and they had days ahead to plot and pre-plan their crime, the McCanns would have secured the most mindbogglingly, impenetrable abduction facade on earth, instead of that absurdly cobbled together piffle they came up with...................

Not sure that I agree with you on this one. The trouble with a 'story' is that it just isn't the whole truth and its acceptance relies heavily on the participants  having outstanding  memories. It's not like the truth where you can re live the moment  when asked and easily ( without all that humming and erring )  come up with exactly what happened . The fact that this story has held together as well as it has surely points to pre planning.................not necessarily of the crime but certainly of  the aftermath. I think they've done pretty well considering. They're still not behind bars are they?
Another quick observation: When I've read through the Tapas Crew's statements I've been flabbergasted that such 'highfliers' could be so downright inarticulate. How could they reach the positions in life that they have when they appear......well.......downright thick to be honest ? All things considered it must place enormous strain on even the brightest person to hold to a pre planned  script when it's liable to all fall apart with dire consequences at any loss of concentration. With days and days of invented memories I'm not surprised they come over as they do in their statements.
 
I agree their statements read very inarticulate indeed!   
 
I feel there's a difference between having outstanding memories, and completely cocking up an alleged crime that they (as some believe) had days to prepare.  There's just no getting away from the fact that their version of events was totally inept, and back fitted time and time again, even right down to the point of entry to the apartment.

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by hogwash on 21.02.16 19:47

@pennylane wrote:
@hogwash wrote:How could they possibly have got the apartment so forensically cleaned in just a couple of hours whilst putting the kids to bed, having their showers, drinking their wine and getting ready to go out to wine and dine?

'Forensically cleaned' can mean a little or a lot, depending on what actually happened.  For example, wiping a small amount of blood off the floor and pushing a sofa over that spot, and destroying a toothbrush could be described as forensic cleaning.
And that would get rid of all her DNA would it, even though she was supposed to have been in the apartment for almost a week?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by pennylane on 21.02.16 19:52

@hogwash wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@hogwash wrote:How could they possibly have got the apartment so forensically cleaned in just a couple of hours whilst putting the kids to bed, having their showers, drinking their wine and getting ready to go out to wine and dine?

'Forensically cleaned' can mean a little or a lot, depending on what actually happened.  For example, wiping a small amount of blood off the floor and pushing a sofa over that spot, and destroying a toothbrush could be described as forensic cleaning.
And that would get rid of all her DNA would it, even though she was supposed to have been in the apartment for almost a week?
Yes I a remember this from way back. Are we absolutely certain of this hogwash?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by hogwash on 21.02.16 20:07

@pennylane wrote:
@hogwash wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@hogwash wrote:How could they possibly have got the apartment so forensically cleaned in just a couple of hours whilst putting the kids to bed, having their showers, drinking their wine and getting ready to go out to wine and dine?

'Forensically cleaned' can mean a little or a lot, depending on what actually happened.  For example, wiping a small amount of blood off the floor and pushing a sofa over that spot, and destroying a toothbrush could be described as forensic cleaning.
And that would get rid of all her DNA would it, even though she was supposed to have been in the apartment for almost a week?
Yes I a remember this from way back. Are we absolutely certain of this hogwash?
Didn't Gerry have to go back to Rothley to get some of Madeleine's DNA from a pillowcase because none could be found in the apartment?

Do you have a link that says only the toothbrush was disposed of and a small amount of blood off the floor was cleaned? I agree it wouldn't have taken very long to do that, but what about the rest of the apartment that Madeleine would have had access to? Her bed for instance. Why go to Rothley when she had a bed in PDL?

Did you watch RDH film?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by pennylane on 21.02.16 20:21

@hogwash wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@hogwash wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@hogwash wrote:How could they possibly have got the apartment so forensically cleaned in just a couple of hours whilst putting the kids to bed, having their showers, drinking their wine and getting ready to go out to wine and dine?

'Forensically cleaned' can mean a little or a lot, depending on what actually happened.  For example, wiping a small amount of blood off the floor and pushing a sofa over that spot, and destroying a toothbrush could be described as forensic cleaning.
And that would get rid of all her DNA would it, even though she was supposed to have been in the apartment for almost a week?
Yes I a remember this from way back. Are we absolutely certain of this hogwash?
Didn't Gerry have to go back to Rothley to get some of Madeleine's DNA from a pillowcase because none could be found in the apartment?

Do you have a link that says only the toothbrush was disposed of and a small amount of blood off the floor was cleaned? I agree it wouldn't have taken very long to do that, but what about the rest of the apartment that Madeleine would have had access to? Her bed for instance. Why go to Rothley when she had a bed in PDL?

Did you watch RDH film?
No haven't watched the film yet. I do plan to watch RDH's film during the coming week when I have quiet time to myself.  I watched a small bit of it yesterday, and since I don't believe Tannerman and Smithman are the same (or the descriptions are the same) I'm already struggling. Oh dear!

Here is just a tiny part of the forensic report I quickly found (of which contents are way over my head) but I remember years ago looking for proof "there was no DNA of Madeleine in the apartment," and it not being so cut and dried.



Via nuclear DNA:
- hair root CEnv 7-51 recovered in the apartment (entrance hall-Env.7) matched with Gerald McCann, father of the victim.

Via mtDNA:

- Profile identified by letter "N", present in 24 samples, was identical to that of Gerald McCann, father of the victim, meaning those samples were from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

"- Profile identified by letter "C", present in 53 samples, was identical to that of Kate Healy, mother of the victim, meaning those samples were from her or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

MtDNA just identifies a haplotype. As it's inherited via the maternal bloodline, the 53 hairs could belong to a mixture of Kate and the children. "

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by hogwash on 21.02.16 20:27

And of course Madeleine's clothes that she wore that week would have had her DNA on it without the need to go to Rothley.

What an odd thing to say: "I like to make my own mind up" whilst putting a downer on RDH film even though you haven't seen it.

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by pennylane on 21.02.16 20:39

@hogwash wrote:And of course Madeleine's clothes that she wore that week would have had her DNA on it without the need to go to Rothley.

What an odd thing to say: "I like to make my own mind up" whilst putting a downer on RDH film even though you haven't seen it.

I viewed it for half an hour and disagreed with the part I saw describing Smithman and Tannerman as one and the same, but as I said I am going to watch it in full next week.  Sorry if that offends you.

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by hogwash on 21.02.16 20:45

@pennylane wrote:
@hogwash wrote:And of course Madeleine's clothes that she wore that week would have had her DNA on it without the need to go to Rothley.

What an odd thing to say: "I like to make my own mind up" whilst putting a downer on RDH film even though you haven't seen it.

I viewed it for half an hour and disagreed with the part I saw describing Smithman and Tannerman as one and the same, but as I said I am going to watch it in full next week.  Sorry if that offends you.
Sorry? Why would that offend me?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by Roidininki on 21.02.16 20:45

@hogwash wrote:And of course Madeleine's clothes that she wore that week would have had her DNA on it without the need to go to Rothley.

Wasn't it  uncontaminated dna that was needed?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by Guest on 21.02.16 20:46

@pennylane.  I've watched Parts 1 and 2 only so far, but I don't recall RDH asserting that Tannerman and Smithman were one and the same.  I thought he believed they didn't exist - phantoms, in fact.  Correct me if I've misunderstood anything.

BTW, Richard,  howdy

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by pennylane on 21.02.16 20:47

@Roidininki wrote:
@hogwash wrote:And of course Madeleine's clothes that she wore that week would have had her DNA on it without the need to go to Rothley.

Wasn't it  uncontaminated dna that was needed?
Yes I believe you're right.

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by hogwash on 21.02.16 20:48

@Roidininki wrote:
@hogwash wrote:And of course Madeleine's clothes that she wore that week would have had her DNA on it without the need to go to Rothley.

Wasn't it  uncontaminated dna that was needed?
Why would the pillowcase from Rothley be uncontaminated? Wouldn't the pillowcase in PDL be the same?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by pennylane on 21.02.16 20:51

Ladyinred wrote:@pennylane.  I've watched Parts 1 and 2 only so far, but I don't recall RDH asserting that Tannerman and Smithman were one and the same.  I thought he believed they didn't exist - phantoms, in fact.  Correct me if I've misunderstood anything.

BTW, Richard,  howdy
Thanks Ladyinred x

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by Roidininki on 21.02.16 20:54

Have just finished the  4 discs.   All   the inconsistences very  well pointed out.  Always  knew there was something not right about those photographs  too!  Richard is  sticking his neck out in the search for the truth in this case.  Well done him  for  being determined to expose corruption .

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by Roidininki on 21.02.16 20:55

@hogwash wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:
@hogwash wrote:And of course Madeleine's clothes that she wore that week would have had her DNA on it without the need to go to Rothley.

Wasn't it  uncontaminated dna that was needed?
Why would the pillowcase from Rothley be uncontaminated? Wouldn't the pillowcase in PDL be the same?
Think about it ? smilie

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by hogwash on 21.02.16 20:55

pennylane, what do you think of Petermac's research that the only sunny day was Sunday?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by hogwash on 21.02.16 20:57

@Roidininki wrote:
@hogwash wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:
@hogwash wrote:And of course Madeleine's clothes that she wore that week would have had her DNA on it without the need to go to Rothley.

Wasn't it  uncontaminated dna that was needed?
Why would the pillowcase from Rothley be uncontaminated? Wouldn't the pillowcase in PDL be the same?
Think about it ? smilie
Oh you mean presence of abductor on her PDL pillowcase?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by Roidininki on 21.02.16 22:17

@hogwash wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:
@hogwash wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:
@hogwash wrote:And of course Madeleine's clothes that she wore that week would have had her DNA on it without the need to go to Rothley.

Wasn't it  uncontaminated dna that was needed?
Why would the pillowcase from Rothley be uncontaminated? Wouldn't the pillowcase in PDL be the same?
Think about it ? smilie
Oh you mean presence of abductor on her PDL pillowcase?
I do not !

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by Verdi on 21.02.16 22:43

WOW!  Just finished watching and have to say I am impressed - with a capital eye!  Even missed Ripper Street for which I hold you Mr Hall, totally responsible.

bravo 

In my opinion well presented, very thorough, very interesting and very very informative.  Most of the content is familiar to me and has I believe been extensively covered on this forum alone but I admit to be hazy about the accuracy of a few trivial points and previously ignorant to a couple of important areas such as who was staying at the Ocean Club during the same period as the McCann group and the Boyd media story.

The grand finale crescendo really hit hard.  Totally alien to me so I can't contribute a single thing to such a controversial subject - I very much look forward to the next Rich Planet expose featuring Richard D Hall nose diving into the depths of the establishment snake pit.

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by Verdi on 21.02.16 23:34

I mentioned up-page GM's emphasis on using a short-cut between the child care facilities and their apartment..

Gerry McCann witness statement - 4th May 2007

From memory, on Tuesday, 1 May 2007, by indication from RUSSEL, he went to pick up MADELEINE at the crèche using a short-cut that began at the car park opposite the secondary reception and went between the buildings, which he used to fetch and take his daughter from then on.

Gerry McCann witness statement - 10th May 2007

Back to Thursday [3rd May], after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the back door, the deponent having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the back door from the inside.

They made their way on foot down the usual route to the crèche next to the TAPAS, where they left the twins, and, while KATE stayed to play tennis, the deponent took MADELEINE to her crèche, through the short-cut, where they arrived at 09h15, and , since it was obligatory, he signed the child's attendance register. On returning, not by the short-cut, he went to the “BATISTA” [supermarket]..

At 12H00, he agreed with KATE, as he recalls it, that she would make lunch and the deponent would pick up MADELEINE. He thinks that it was KATE who took the twins home. Since it was he who went to collect MADELEINE, he is sure he used the short-cut.

They stayed in the play area for approximately an hour, until 14H30/14H35. After that, they left the twins at the crèche near the TAPAS, they signed the register, and the three of them (deponent, KATE and MADELEINE) made their way to the crèche at the main reception, where they arrived at 14H50 and delivered MADELEINE, not being able to say precisely who signed the register.

The deponent and KATE returned to the OCEAN CLUB by the short-cut and at the secondary reception they asked the lady employee if there was a vacant tennis court they could reserve.


madeleine by Kate McCann[Thursday 3rd May]

I returned to our apartment before Gerry had finished his tennis lesson and washed and hung out Madeleine’s pyjama top on the veranda. After preparing some lunch, I went with Fiona to pick up Madeleine and Scarlett, who was in the adjoining Baby Club, taking her on the quicker route through the grounds of the Ocean Club, which she hadn’t yet discovered.

Fiona and Dave had been windsurfing that morning and had seen Madeleine’s group, who had gone down to the beach for their ‘mini-sail’ activity. We heard later that they’d been on a speedboat as well as a dinghy. Fiona told me she’d spotted Ella there but not Madeleine...
----------

What is the relevance of this short-cut?  I ask again, could it be a route that might explain no independent witnesses having seen the whole McCann family together?

Sorry if this is not the right place to comment on aspects of the documentary but I didn't know where else to stick it - please, that was not an invitation !

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by sar on 22.02.16 7:37

@Verdi wrote:I mentioned up-page GM's emphasis on using a short-cut between the child care facilities and their apartment..

Gerry McCann witness statement - 4th May 2007

From memory, on Tuesday, 1 May 2007, by indication from RUSSEL, he went to pick up MADELEINE at the crèche using a short-cut that began at the car park opposite the secondary reception and went between the buildings, which he used to fetch and take his daughter from then on.

Gerry McCann witness statement - 10th May 2007

Back to Thursday [3rd May], after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the back door, the deponent having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the back door from the inside.

They made their way on foot down the usual route to the crèche next to the TAPAS, where they left the twins, and, while KATE stayed to play tennis, the deponent took MADELEINE to her crèche, through the short-cut, where they arrived at 09h15, and , since it was obligatory, he signed the child's attendance register. On returning, not by the short-cut, he went to the “BATISTA” [supermarket]..

At 12H00, he agreed with KATE, as he recalls it, that she would make lunch and the deponent would pick up MADELEINE. He thinks that it was KATE who took the twins home. Since it was he who went to collect MADELEINE, he is sure he used the short-cut.

They stayed in the play area for approximately an hour, until 14H30/14H35. After that, they left the twins at the crèche near the TAPAS, they signed the register, and the three of them (deponent, KATE and MADELEINE) made their way to the crèche at the main reception, where they arrived at 14H50 and delivered MADELEINE, not being able to say precisely who signed the register.

The deponent and KATE returned to the OCEAN CLUB by the short-cut and at the secondary reception they asked the lady employee if there was a vacant tennis court they could reserve.


madeleine by Kate McCann[Thursday 3rd May]

I returned to our apartment before Gerry had finished his tennis lesson and washed and hung out Madeleine’s pyjama top on the veranda. After preparing some lunch, I went with Fiona to pick up Madeleine and Scarlett, who was in the adjoining Baby Club, taking her on the quicker route through the grounds of the Ocean Club, which she hadn’t yet discovered.

Fiona and Dave had been windsurfing that morning and had seen Madeleine’s group, who had gone down to the beach for their ‘mini-sail’ activity. We heard later that they’d been on a speedboat as well as a dinghy. Fiona told me she’d spotted Ella there but not Madeleine...
----------

What is the relevance of this short-cut?  I ask again, could it be a route that might explain no independent witnesses having seen the whole McCann family together?

Sorry if this is not the right place to comment on aspects of the documentary but I didn't know where else to stick it - please, that was not an invitation !
Hi Verdi,  I think this is important.  Is there a diagram or image that high lights this short cut?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by garfy on 22.02.16 9:29

@Roidininki wrote:Have just finished the  4 discs.   All   the inconsistences very  well pointed out.  Always  knew there was something not right about those photographs  too!  Richard is  sticking his neck out in the search for the truth in this case.  Well done him  for  being determined to expose corruption .
when listening to Richard last week ....he did say the evidence is there ....and it is ....he mentioned the dogs...i was thinking at the time ...is he going to end up in trouble over this ...will the Cd's be banned by the time they are due to be released ..

.but what with this ...and the article from K H who now feels safe to comment ...has something happened ...were finally the abduction theory is not the only option

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by worriedmum on 22.02.16 11:13

I watched this yesterday and I think it is an amazingly detailed examination of available information.
I am confused about the testimony of the cleaner's daughter on Sunday and Richard's suggestion  of its possible connection to the 'Last Photo' though. If the photo was taken when the sun was at its zenith, isn't that at the same time the cleaner reports seeing Madeleine going upstairs for lunch with her family?

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Re: ***NEW FILM*** by Richard D. Hall: When Madeleine Died?

Post by Verdi on 22.02.16 12:29

@sar wrote:  Hi Verdi,  I think this is important.  Is there a diagram or image that high lights this short cut?

Good day to you!  No, I don't believe there is - at least not in the context of Gerry McCann's claim..

Gerry McCann's witness statement - 10th May 2007

From memory, on Tuesday, 1 May 2007, by indication from RUSSEL, he went to pick up MADELEINE at the crèche using a short-cut that began at the car park opposite the secondary reception and went between the buildings, which he used to fetch and take his daughter from then on.


To give an idea of the topography, this is about the clearest image I could find..



On arrival on the Saturday the family explored the Ocean Club area, as one does, so I'm a little surprised that this short-cut wasn't discovered long before Tuesday 1st May;  add to that their claimed nightly checks on the children, one would expect them to be aware of the shortest route possible - supposing there was an emergency (tongue in cheek)?  Whatever, looking at the ariel view, the only advantage would be to avoid walking along the main street,  where they might more easily be seen by Ocean Club reception staff, from the creche windows or anyone else in the vicinity - hence my suspicion! 

Note also, without going into too much detail, Gerald mentions that he or Kate were alone with Madeleine on these short-cut trips, whilst the other half was attending to the twins.  This doesn't necessarily accord with their leaving and entering the apartment at the same time, nor their dropping off/collecting the children at the same time.

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