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SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

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SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by Tony Bennett on 27.11.15 21:31

Let's hope those who drop the bombs know exactly where they are - and who exactly they're bombing.

BBC map of who controls which areas in Syria:

(but they forgot to include the Turkmen rebels, who are supported by Turkey, the ones who shot and killed one of the Russian pilots this week, and who also oppose the Assad regime; they control some areas of northern Syria)



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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by BlueBag on 28.11.15 6:30

Bombing worked in Iraq... oh wait...

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by BlueBag on 28.11.15 7:23

Dennis Skinner tells the truth about what is going on.

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Letter to Robert Halfon MP 30 November 2015 re plan to bomb ISIS

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.11.15 23:53

My letter to my MP tonight:

=====================


30 November 2015

Dear Robert,

As the PM has now called the Syria vote for Wednesday, I am writing to you tonight to ask you to vote AGAINST authorising HM government to drop bombs on Syria.

I will set out my reasons very briefly, as there are many.

The only circumstances where I would want my government to begin a programme of air strikes against Syria is if that were:
a. part of a co-ordinated, U.N.-backed plan
b. involving several more nation
c. including Arab states in the region and
d. which had a carefully-agreed plan and programme for defeating Islamic State altogether - and bringing the perpetrators of the most horrific war crimes and crimes against humanity to justice

As a background to the current situation, we must take note that democracy  is generally a foreign concept to the Arab nations. Most of them are riven by sectarian and tribal conflicts, Syria bring a prime example, as not only are there Sunnis and Shias, but also the Alawites and minorities such as the Kurds and the Turkmen.

Because of that, Arab states usually only function well if there is a strong ruler who exercises control, even a measure of ruthlessness if there is any serious trouble.

Now I look at our interventions in the Middle East recent years

We assisted Kuwait against Iraq. That was right, and concluded reasonably quickly and without much bloodshed.

In 2001 we foolishly joined the U.S. in invading Afghanistan. Let it never be forgotten that Osama bin Laden said that he organised the 9/11 bombings ‘to provoke a reaction from the U.S. and the West’.
 
The stated reason for invading Afghanistan was to ‘get Osama bin Laden and destroy Al Qa’eda.’ Well, it turned out that bin Laden was in that duplicitous state of Pakistan all the time, and far from destroying Al Qa’eda, this militant jihadist movement has morphed into similar groups now running riot in Nigeria, Central African Republic, Mali, Libya, Yemen and Syria – and eventually of course developed into Islamic State itself.

In the months before the Iraq war, I could see that the Labour government was intent on invading Iraq, though there was no authorisation for it from the U.N.  About three months before we invaded Iraq, I wrote a three-page letter to your predecessor, Bill Rammell, pleading with him and the Labour government not to go to war with Iraq.

He was courteous enough to reply with a carefully-worded reply, also three pages long, purporting to give credible reasons and justifications for going to war. 

My reasons at the time for opposing the war in Iraq centred specifically on the effect that our invasion of Iraq would have on Muslim opinion in this country’. Like many of my fellow countrymen, I read with disbelief the press reports of children and teachers in predominantly Muslim schools cheering and celebrating the killing of over 3,000 people in the shocking attack on the Twin Towers. It was clear to many of us then that there was much more than a small body of Muslim opinion in this country which hated us, hated our values of freedom and democracy, and wanted to see the development of Shari’ah law in this country and, eventually, declare an Islamic State. I told Bill Rammell that if we went to war against Iraq, it would make terrorist attacks against our citizens far more likely. I think Nigel Farage of UKIP was quite right, by the way, to describe them as a ‘fifth column’ in the country.

Two years later we had 7/7. My son was in London that day and narrowly missed being at the site of one of the bombs.

The war on Iraq was plainly illegal under U.N. law.

The war was waged on the basis of a bare-faced lie by the Prime Minister that we were in danger of weapons of mass destruction that could hit us within 45 minutes.

The war has caused Iraq to become what it is today. The government barely controls half of its territory. There is grievous sectarian and tribal violence, with bombs being regularly exploded in crowded market places.

The Christian community flourished under Saddam Hussein. He recognised that they were a peaceful, settled and hard-working community and consistently protected them against Muslims who would otherwise have persecuted them. Saddam’s Foreign Minister, Aziz, was a Roman Catholic. After we began bombing Iraq, latent anti-Christian feeling was let loose and most of the Christians who didn’t flee were killed or severely persecuted. Only a handful are left in Iraq and they constantly fear being killed.

This is exactly paralleled in Syria, by the way. Until members of the Free Syrian Army began their rebellion, which we have very foolishly supported with arms, many of which have now passed to ISIS control, the Christian community of Syria was likewise protected bu Bashir-al-Asad in the same way as Saddam protected iraq’s Christian minority. Now, despite the unremitting demonisation of Assad by the British government and media, it is only where Assad still rules that the Christian minority is protected. Elsewhere, Christians have been heavily persecuted by nearly all the warring factions and most have fled. The anti-Christian onslaught is well referenced by the Barnabas Fund, which I am pleased to support.  

Then we had Libya. Gaddafi was certainly not a good man. But is the current state of Libya any better for our intervention? No, most certainly not. The country is at the mercy of gun-toting tribal warlords and ISIS has been gaining ever more territory in the country.  
Finally, some of the practicalities of this proposed bombing of Syria:


1. Our pilots are at severe risk. The downing of a Russian plane and the killing of one of the pilots is clear proof of that. If a pilot should survive a parachute drop into ISIS-held territory, they will be pitiless with him. I am sure you are aware of the tortures inflicted on our captured troops by the Taliban – too graphic to mention in this letter.

2. We are more than likely to cause innocent civilian casualties. The people in Raqqa have appealed to the U.S., France, Russia and the U.K. not to bomb them, for that very reason.  Even a few civilian deaths will be a propaganda coup used on social media to further inflame all Muslims with a tendency to follow the violent commands in the second half of the Koran.

3. There is the risk of friendly or unfriendly fire. The air forces of Syria, Turkey, the U.S. and France are already involved. The disparate groups fighting each other on the ground have anti-aircraft missiles. All sorts of mistakes and accidents are possible.

4. Has the U.S.’s bombing campaign been successful so far? No. Has ISIS’s fighting capabilities been degraded? – No. Are there fewer ISIS-supporting groups in the world? No, there are more, and growing daily. Has economy of ISIS been affected?  No - they sell oil on the black market and to that other duplicitous state - Turkey. They already control vast reserves of oil.  

5. Do we (currently) have the legal backing of the Iraqi government for intervening in Iraq? Yes - and that makes a difference. Do we have support from the Assad regime for intervening in Syria’s civil war? – No.     

6. Will this bombing campaign be more or less likely to make the sort of people who have, according to the government, planned seven terrorist outrages in the past year, try to commit more terrorist actions again our citizens? Surely much more likely.

Robert, ISIS is evil, truly evil. They must be opposed, for sure. But as you must know, the Syrian war is in essence a proxy war between Sunni Saudi Arabia and its Shia opponents in Iran, Syria and the Hezbollah.

We should not get in the way.
We should work urgently with the U.N. and many other countries to prepare a viable plan that will lead to the conquest of Islamic State. To send a limited number of our planes to drop a few bombs on Islamic State will result in few if any gains, and place both our pilots and ordinary citizens of Britain at risk.                   

Please do not support this bombing campaign unless and until we have a proper plan in place.
Remember Iraq.

Sincerely,

Tony Bennett                                              

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ARTICLE TODAY BY STEPHEN GREEN, DIRECTOR OF CHRISTIAN VOICE - Don't bomb Islamic State

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.11.15 23:58

ARTICLE TODAY BY STEPHEN GREEN, DIRECTOR OF CHRISTIAN VOICE 


22 reasons to stay out of Syria

Categories: Globalism, Islam, Political Engagement

by Stephen


President Assad is the only guarantor of stability in Syria and the UK can only defeat Islamic State with his army as ground forces. I was in favour of bombing Islamic State in Syria until very recently. But evidence to the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee and Mr Cameron’s shiftiness in the House of Commons last Thursday have changed my mind.

(1) Two years ago, thank God, the House of Commons voted against bombing President Assad’s forces in Syria. If the vote had gone Mr Cameron’s way, Syria would be in a worse mess now, loss of life would have been greater, Islamic State would be far stronger and there would be far more displaced people queuing up in Hungary. The Christians in Syria would be history, as would the Druze and the Alawites.

(2) The Foreign Affairs Select Committee has heard evidence that airstrikes from Britain will make no difference whatsoever to the collective effort.

(3) The Foreign Affairs Select Committee has also heard evidence that airstrikes must be supported by ground troops. Mr Cameron gave a figure of 70,000 which he said came from the Joint Iintelligence Committee together with the impression that these could be those ground troops. Yet they include some ten groups and literally hundreds of different factions who are all in the far west of Syria. ISIS is based in the east and north. The 70,000, even if they could be persuaded to switch from fighting the Syrian army to fight ISIS and trek all the way from western Syria to the east is frankly preposterous. In short, they are in the wrong place with the wrong focus. It could well be, as Craig Murray argues, that no-one actually believes Mr Cameron, but few have challenged him on the figure, not even the official Opposition.  ‘70,000’ wil be Mr Cameron’s ’45 minutes’, a figure which was also stated by the JIC.

(4) The Foreign Affairs Select Committee heard evidence in September that the Free Syrian Army is a ‘busted flush’. The evidence said it would be absurd to try to differentiate between radical and moderate Islamists among the opposition to President Assad.

(5) As David Winnick MP reminded the House on Thursday, the Prime Minister made the same sort of passionate arguments two years ago. He was wrong then and he has not made any case that shows he is right now. It is still the same old bluster.

(6) The Free Syrian Army have either given or sold equipment given to them by the United States to the Al Nusra Front, an Al Qaeda offshoot.  I searched Thursday’s debate in vain for any mention of Al Nusra. Does the Prime Minister regard them as moderate or radical?

(7) The Foreign Affairs Select Committee also heard evidence in September that the only guarantor of stability in Syria is President Assad. ‘It’s Assad or the Deluge’, said one.

(8) If oil wells are liberated from Islamic State, whose will the oil be? There is no strategy or understanding.

(9) I noted the Prime Minister said in the debate: ‘(ISIS) … get their money from selling oil to Assad’. As Mr Denis Skinner pointed out, it is well documented that ISIS get far more money from selling oil to well-placed individuals in Turkey. It was duplicitious of the Prime Minister not even to mention Turkey and then when challenged to say that Turkey had ‘taken action’ about that. On the very same day that the Prime Minister made his statement, President Erdogan flatly denied Turkey was buying any ISIS oil at all. But the Guardian reported on Tuesday last week: ‘Turkish businessmen struck lucrative deals with Isis oil smugglers.’ The sum involved is said to be $10m per week.

(9a) One Mr George Haswani was identified in March as the middleman between ISIS and President Assad in an oil deal, but the sums involved in these alleged Syrian deals have yet to be spelt out. I am not actually surprised that enemies are doing deals with one another over oil resources. In one sense, it is better than blowing them up. But when a NATO member is profiting from Syrian oil and denying it, I should expect our Prime Minister to at least acknowledge that fact.

(10) On the subject of Turkey, if Mr Cameron is serious about ground troops including Kurdish fighters, what representations did the UK make to Turkey when Turkish forces attacked Kurdish fighters in July, killing hundreds of souls?

(11) This summer, Turkey sent three hundred air strikes against Kurdish forces fighting ISIS and only three against ISIS itself. What representations did the UK make to Turkey about that?

(12) In early September, Turkey violated Iraqi air space to attack Kurdish fighters and violated the territory of Iraq to pursue them as well. The only ones to gain from that were ISIS. Seeing Britain has an interest in Iraq, what representations did the UK make to Turkey about that violation of sovereign territory?

(13) In ‘The Independent’ on 4th October, Patrick Cockburn reported that the US had betrayed the Syrian Kurds in a deal with Turkey. This is despite the fact that the Syrian branch of the PKK has apparently been the most successful ground ally of the US at retaking areas from ISIS. Are these the same Syrian Kurds who are now expected to be the northern ground troops to follow up UK airstrikes? And will you support removing the UK’s ‘proscribed’ classification of the PKK, who pose no threat to Britain at all, under the Terrorism Act?

(14) Mr Cameron said he had learned the lessons of Iraq and Libya. The Iraq invasion was in 2003 and the first elections were held in 2005. Iraq was well known to be a disaster by at least 2007. The UK intervened in Libya in 2011. No lessons were learned from Iraq to be put in place in Libya, so north Africa is now flooded with Islamists and arms. Why should we believe the Prime Minister now? ‘Regime Change’ is illegal and ends in death and destruction.

(15) The issue of unintended consquences has not been remotely addressed. The most recent direct consequence of our intervention in Libya was the 22 deaths in Bamako in Mali.

(16) There are certain to be civilian deaths in places like Raqqa, violating at least one principle of the ‘Just War’ principle. In the war in Iraq, which was waged for regime change and nothing else, an estimated 165,000 civilians died.  Those MPs who voted with Tony Blair for war in 2003 have that blood on their hands.

(17) I recognise that Air Chiefs of Staff want to see how their latest bits of technology work in the field and Mr Cameron wants to appear tough and militaristic when he meets other leaders but these are just positions of vanity.

(18) UK jets have been operating in Iraq, but the only success to date is the liberation of Sinjar. What other success in Iraq can Mr Cameron point to?

(19) At a time of continuing austerity, Mr Cameron has not even presented the cost of a Syrian operation to Parliament. Every two-plane mission with each plane discharging four Paveway bombs and two Brimstone missiles would cost the taxpayer £1 million. The cost could soar into billions all of which will have to be borrowed.

(20) No coherent strategy has been presented, let alone an exit strategy.

(21) United Nations Security Council resolution 2249 ‘Calls upon Member States that have the capacity to do so to take all necessary measures, in compliance with international law’. International law does not allow the United Kingdom to violate Syrian air space. The Prime Minister did not tell the House of Commons how or even if he proposed to seek permission from President Assad to overfly Syria. If he does not, the action will be illegal.

(22) Pursuant to paragraph (3) above, any force wanting to liberate Raqqa or other eastern Syrian towns will need the cooperation of the Syrian army under President Assad. Yet the Prime Minister has ruled out any approach to or support for President Assad, maintaining his ‘Assad must go’ mantra. Without the involvement of the Syrian army, we are wasting our time, as your colleague Dr Julian Lewis has said.

For all the reasons given, please urge your Member of Parliament to vote against UK air strikes in Syria.

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by BlueBag on 01.12.15 8:15

There are no measurable objectives to this bombing campaign.

None.

You can't even say it's doomed to fail because failure implies there were measurable objectives.

Nobody has asked or seems to care about who is supplying ISIS.

We do know that ISIS is at least dealing with Turkey and the reason a Russian jet was shot down was because Putin was trying to put at end to that.

This is a dirty devious campaign.

The real objective is not allowed to be discussed and that is the subjugation of Assad by the back door - they don't care about ISIS, they created ISIS.

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by Dr What on 01.12.15 10:26

The certainty with which the statement " there are no measurable objectives to this bombing campaign" is made seems rather grandiose.

On a very basic level, and with no pretence of any military background, I would have thought that some objectives are very easily measured.

Bomb and destroy one armoured car = one less armoured car= measurable
Bomb and destroy one command centre= one less command centre=measurable.
Bomb and destroy one tank= one less tank=measurable.

It is a matter of debate exactly how many targets need to be destroyed before it makes a strategic difference but any degrading of IS capability will make a difference.

I will leave to others to decide for themselves whether bombing IS in Syria should be part of the UK response.

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by Richard IV on 01.12.15 10:43

Cameron and his ilk are acting like a gang of hoodies looking for a bundle (fight) - public school boys are just as bad as other thugs.

Was London attacked by Isis? No, it was Paris.  If it was our country maybe I would feel differently.

But you can bet your boots Isis will now attack our country if we join in the bundle - and it is my friends and relatives that work in London that concerns me - selfish, yes I know.

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by BlueBag on 01.12.15 12:01

@Dr What wrote:The certainty with which the statement " there are no measurable objectives to this bombing campaign" is made seems rather grandiose.

On a very basic level, and with no pretence of any military background, I would have thought that some objectives are very easily measured.

Bomb and destroy one armoured car = one less armoured car= measurable
Bomb and destroy one command centre= one less command centre=measurable.
Bomb and destroy one tank= one less tank=measurable.

It is a matter of debate exactly how many targets need to be destroyed before it makes a strategic difference but any degrading of IS capability will make a difference.

I will leave to others to decide for themselves whether bombing IS in Syria should be part of the UK response.
The objectives are not to bomb one car, one command centre, on tank - they are just actions.

What are the objectives and how do you measure success?

They haven't said.

It's exactly the same as the Iraq war and there were plenty of military people complaining about vague objectives back then.

What is the plan?

The real plan is to dismantle Syria on behalf of Israel.
.

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STOP PRESS

Post by sar on 01.12.15 12:27

@BlueBag wrote:
@Dr What wrote:The certainty with which the statement " there are no measurable objectives to this bombing campaign" is made seems rather grandiose.

On a very basic level, and with no pretence of any military background, I would have thought that some objectives are very easily measured.

Bomb and destroy one armoured car = one less armoured car= measurable
Bomb and destroy one command centre= one less command centre=measurable.
Bomb and destroy one tank= one less tank=measurable.

It is a matter of debate exactly how many targets need to be destroyed before it makes a strategic difference but any degrading of IS capability will make a difference.

I will leave to others to decide for themselves whether bombing IS in Syria should be part of the UK response.
The objectives are not to bomb one car, one command centre, on tank - they are just actions.

What are the objectives and how do you measure success?

They haven't said.

It's exactly the same as the Iraq war and there were plenty of military people complaining about vague objectives back then.

What is the plan?

The real plan is to dismantle Syria on behalf of Israel.
.
May be mistaken but BBC are not broacsating live the select commitee(?) on Syria???   WTF!!  They are just spinning before the meeting has ended, getting sound bites / strap-lines ready for this evenings news..  Creating a "media event" around tomorrows debate, not concentrating on the situation on the ground.  Denying the British public an opportunity prior to the debate, to see the details of a realistic expectation of what we could achieve by bombing.   No surprise they are citing how dangerous ISIS / ISIL are and only having 'hawks' speak throughout the news.  If we do bomb Syria, I will be squarely blaming the BBC for the change in public mood, they are plainly mis leading by omission.  The question of what the hell is going on on the ground should be the main issue, not another bombing campaign from 20,000ft

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NOW A ONE LINE RESPONSE TO AIR CRASH INTO JAVA SEA??

Post by sar on 01.12.15 13:29

Just seen a one line response to the air crash into the Java sea!  Unbelievable!  Talk about a good day to bury bad news.  A "crack" in a computer, , , ?????  What???  And we are supposed to just swallow this??  Obvs. Auntie Beeb doing some house keeping before the New Year!  Well good luck to 'em (TPTB) they think we are all mugs and it would seem that "You can fool most of the people most of the time" In my opinion that's usually enough!

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by Nina on 01.12.15 17:08

Saw an appeal earlier this afternoon, sorry don't know which pop star it was. Says the UK government will match pound for pound. If we bomb them all the government will save that money.
I despair. 

http://www.unicef.org.uk/landing-pages/donate-syria/?gclid=CLfy2LCSu8kCFSsKwwodZUQANg&sissr=1

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by aquila on 01.12.15 17:12

@Nina wrote:Saw an appeal earlier this afternoon, sorry don't know which pop star it was. Says the UK government will match pound for pound. If we bomb them all the government will save that money.
I despair. 

http://www.unicef.org.uk/landing-pages/donate-syria/?gclid=CLfy2LCSu8kCFSsKwwodZUQANg&sissr=1
Dear God Nina, I wish I hadn't read that link. What a sick world this is.

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by Nina on 01.12.15 17:43

@aquila wrote:
@Nina wrote:Saw an appeal earlier this afternoon, sorry don't know which pop star it was. Says the UK government will match pound for pound. If we bomb them all the government will save that money.
I despair. 

http://www.unicef.org.uk/landing-pages/donate-syria/?gclid=CLfy2LCSu8kCFSsKwwodZUQANg&sissr=1
Dear God Nina, I wish I hadn't read that link. What a sick world this is.
It is. Words fail me.

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Syria bombing or not?

Post by willowthewisp on 01.12.15 17:54

@Nina wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@Nina wrote:Saw an appeal earlier this afternoon, sorry don't know which pop star it was. Says the UK government will match pound for pound. If we bomb them all the government will save that money.
I despair. 

http://www.unicef.org.uk/landing-pages/donate-syria/?gclid=CLfy2LCSu8kCFSsKwwodZUQANg&sissr=1
Dear God Nina, I wish I hadn't read that link. What a sick world this is.
It is. Words fail me.
I know it is part of this subject, but have you seen an increase in the advertisements increase about"Giving at Xmas donations", just to make sure you feel bad about not giving funding to their cause? 
However desperate you may be in the UK, these "Charities" certainly know how to tug on the heart with their commercials, who funds the commercials?

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by jozi on 03.12.15 9:02

@Richard IV wrote:Cameron and his ilk are acting like a gang of hoodies looking for a bundle (fight) - public school boys are just as bad as other thugs.

Was London attacked by Isis? No, it was Paris.  If it was our country maybe I would feel differently.

But you can bet your boots Isis will now attack our country if we join in the bundle - and it is my friends and relatives that work in London that concerns me - selfish, yes I know.
I back Putin and hope USA and Britain can work with him but in my heart I know we have just been conned.......again !!!

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by Richard IV on 03.12.15 20:35

I`m fed up with hearing all the western propaganda about Assad, particularly after listening to many videos of him being interviewed.  Good on Putin I say.

This article is from last year when a Telegraph journalist visited Syria

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10770311/Syria-As-the-bombs-fall-the-people-of-Damascus-rally-round-Bashar-al-Assad.html

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by Joss on 04.12.15 6:37

I hope those that are not there for the benefit of Syria and a threat to Russia will heed the words of Putin in that anyone posing a threat to Russia's no fly zone over Syria after the downing of the Russian fighter jet recently will be eliminated.

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Syrian civil war

Post by willowthewisp on 04.12.15 13:17

@Richard IV wrote:I`m fed up with hearing all the western propaganda about Assad, particularly after listening to many videos of him being interviewed.  Good on Putin I say.

This article is from last year when a Telegraph journalist visited Syria

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10770311/Syria-As-the-bombs-fall-the-people-of-Damascus-rally-round-Bashar-al-Assad.html
The CIA have had an interest in controlling who governs Syria since 1949 and have opposed the Assad family throughout the generations that have Governed in Syria since that date, so America has been campaigning in Syrian affairs for over sixty six years to have control over its people and assets?
So this really is not about one member of the Assad family and the present conflict within Syria, but seems that the backers of the Arab League grasped the opportunity to try to oust Bashar-al-Assad, coup d'etat, like Bashar's father had done previously to the Syrian people!
One common denominator to two of the biggest problems in the Middle East for America is them having to control the Ba'athast party and its people in the regions, Iraq, Syria? 
The UK and France have had their fingers probing into the affairs of Syria since the second World War, (Colonial conflict) helping a close friend Israel over their assets?
Now (itchy fingers) Dave has involved the UK in a campaign of conflict with its allies America, France, anyone see a resemblance of who has been involved prior to this new conflict lasting for how long?

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.12.15 13:50

@willowthewisp wrote:
The CIA have had an interest in controlling who Governs Syria since 1949 and have opposed the Assad family throughout the generations that have governed in Syria since that date, so America has been campaigning in Syrian affairs for over sixty six years to have control over it' people and assets
I think what is happening in Syria may go even deeper than that.

Here is a well-thought out and presented 9-minute video by an articulate Syrian woman which will cause any member or guest watching to at least pause for thought, on the theme: "Why the New World Order hates Syria".  :   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP3mXVRd89Y

I part company from her on a few points, though, including her anti-Israel rhetoric.

It is 3 years old now but not really out-of-date

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by BlueBag on 04.12.15 14:08

I think you'll find Israel is the core of the problem Tony.

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.12.15 16:50

@BlueBag wrote:I think you'll find Israel is the core of the problem Tony.
Yes, but only because all the Arabs had a problem dealing with allowing the Jews in 1947 to return to a small portion of what had been their homeland and where many thousands of Jews still lived - an event the Arabs still refer to as 'The Catastrophe'.

Islam dictates that once a land has been occupied for Islam, it remains inviolately part of 'The World of Islam' for eternity, hence their undying hatred for an Israeli state on 'their' territory, and why the y attacked it the day it was set up, coming off worst...as the numerically superior Arab forces were outfought by the Jews in 1948

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by BlueBag on 04.12.15 16:53

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:I think you'll find Israel is the core of the problem Tony.
Yes, but only because all the Arabs had a problem dealing with allowing the Jews in 1947 to return to a small portion of what had been their homeland and where many thousands of Jews still lived - an event the Arabs still refer to as 'The Catastrophe'.

Islam dictates that once a land has been occupied for Islam, it remains inviolately part of 'The World of Islam' for eternity, hence their undying hatred for an Israeli state on 'their' territory, and why the y attacked it the day it was set up, coming off worst...as the numerically superior Arab forces were outfought by the Jews in 1948
Yes I'll say they had a problem.



Who blew up the King David hotel?

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Re: SYRIA - BBC map showing which groups control which areas - LETTER to MP opposing bombing of ISIS and '22 REASONS NOT TO BOMB ISIS'

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.12.15 17:03

@BlueBag wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:I think you'll find Israel is the core of the problem Tony.
Yes, but only because all the Arabs had a problem dealing with allowing the Jews in 1947 to return to a small portion of what had been their homeland and where many thousands of Jews still lived - an event the Arabs still refer to as 'The Catastrophe'.

Islam dictates that once a land has been occupied for Islam, it remains inviolately part of 'The World of Islam' for eternity, hence their undying hatred for an Israeli state on 'their' territory, and why the y attacked it the day it was set up, coming off worst...as the numerically superior Arab forces were outfought by the Jews in 1948
Yes I'll say they had a problem.



Who blew up the King David hotel?

We could debate this for years and I suspect we would never agree.

I don't agree that Map 1 (on the left) fairly represents which were the mainly Jewish areas on 1947, but clearly you concede that they were the dominant racial group in what was then the British Protectorate of Palestine. In the 1930s and 1940s, the Palestine National Orchestra, the Palestine newspapers and various other 'Palestinian' organisations were all Jewish.

The main reason Israel has extended its territory since then is because the Arabs have tried to annihilate Israel and failed miserably, not ably in the 1967 'Six Day War'. 

The King David hotel was blown up by the Jews in a disgraceful and cruel act of inhumanity...and as I suspect you know, there is more than a whiff of suspicion that the British government knew in advance of the plan and allowed it to happen

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