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Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

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Paris attacks

Post by willowthewisp on 19.11.15 21:00

@Tony Bennett wrote:President Vladimir Putin gets religious:

QUOTE news item today:

Earlier this week Russian President Vladimir Putin said, “To forgive the terrorists is up to God, but to send them to him is up to me.”
Quite a philosopher is Mr. Putin?

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by BlueBag on 19.11.15 21:45

"Kill them all, God knows his own"

(A Catholic Bishop in 1209 on the indiscriminate slaughter of "heretic" Albigensian Christians).

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Tony Bennett on 19.11.15 21:57

@BlueBag wrote:"Kill them all, God knows his own"

(A Catholic Bishop in 1209 on the indiscriminate slaughter of "heretic" Albigensian Christians).
Many of the Albigensians threw themselves over local cliffs to their deaths, rather than face the extreme torture and death being meted out by the Pope's army (yes, army!) in those days - and that was all before the Inquisition really got going

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by aquila on 21.11.15 12:21

Here we have it folks, Sir Robert of Goodfordshire, he of the 'feed the world' (which resulted in catastrophic results) and inviting a closed meeting with billionaires to say 'Africa is open for business' is now saying weird stuff to young people.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3325982/Bob-Geldof-blames-terrorism-France-Syria-blood-stained-young-generation-bizarre-rant.html

Bob, the Irishman knighted by the UK for being what exactly? What exactly did Sir Robert of Goodfordshire achieve?

Oh yes, Sir Bob has been rolled out to say something meaningless once again.

You'll never find Sir Robert say anything controversial that isn't all about serving billionaires.

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by bobbin on 22.11.15 9:45

 
Just as many Irish people were wrongly ostracised when the criminal element of the IRA was actively attacking, it is important to see that individuals of any race or creed should not be tarred with the same brush as the criminal elements claiming association with that group.

Amongst any group there are the great majority who are kind, loving, generous, family members seeking a cohesive society. The Guardian article below shows the human side of those who suffer wrongly from 'collateral' damage.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/20/british-muslims-media-coverage-paris-terror-attacks
 
Islamic leaders and the Muslim population have been quick to show solidarity with France and condemn last Friday’s terror attacks.
On social media, people used the hashtags #IamMuslim and #PrayforParis in a show of unity. But what effect have the attacks had on Muslims and do they feel public sentiment towards them has changed?
We asked British Muslims to share their thoughts and experiences, including whether they thought the media had reported the attacks and their aftermath sensitively. Here’s what they had to say:
 
Anonymous, 19, Preston
Being ostracised for being a Muslim isn’t great. It makes me feel impure, vulnerable and worst of all, a victim
Anonymous, 19, from Preston
I am a westerner. I am free, liberal, a British citizen but also a Muslim. It is not a contradiction. I can be all of these things and I am. But events such as the Paris attacks, paint a very different picture.
My life has been affected a lot more than I thought it would be. I shan’t delve into a sob story, or complain about my situation because I deal with it like I deal with everything else that goes on. But I will say that when I am out in public people don’t see me; they see the scarf wrapped on my head and that for them that is enough. I get glances in my direction, a sigh as someone walks passed and every now and then an intense stare. I don’t mind it, but being ostracised for being a Muslim isn’t great. It makes me feel impure, vulnerable and worst of all a victim. I do not want to feel like a victim nor feel victimised. I want to weep for those whose innocent souls have passed, not for myself.
A couple of days ago, I was on the bus at 5:41am as I had an early lecture to attend. A white middle-aged man came on to the bus and asked to buy a weekly ticket costing £34. He paid £30 and began to rummage in his bag for the remaining £4. The driver took the money, and waited for the man. In the minutes that follow the man is unable to find the correct change and panics; if he doesn’t get on this bus he has to wait at least 45 minutes in a leaky bus shelter for the next one. I rummage through my own bag and find £4. I proceed to give the change to the driver. Both the man and the driver look at me in awe, like they didn’t expect me to do what I did. The most beautiful thing about it all wasn’t my charitable act, but that through this I had broken the stigma that they held about me.
 
Sharma, 17, London
We were born and bred in this country and now fear a simple walk to the shop
Sharma, 17, from London
Muslims, if anything, have it the worst. We carry the dual burden of not only fearing a terror attack, just like the rest of the western world, but also the threat from people who feel they have the right to attack Muslims in response to Paris. Lone Muslim women are particularly vulnerable; I’ve experienced stares and horrible looks on public transport.
People now associate the Muslim community with terror and violence, and people see us as aliens. Sweeping statements have been made to generalise an entire religion of 1.6 billion people on the basis of the actions of a few corrupt individuals. British Muslims, like myself, now feel frightened or at risk to leave our houses due to backlash attacks. We were born and bred in this country and now fear a simple walk to the shop more inconceivable than ever.
The media have failed Muslims by making no distinction between a minority terror group, who even Muslims are victims of, and ordinary Muslims who follow a peaceful religion which perpetuates joy and social cohesion. By the media sparking fears around ordinary Muslims, we are playing into the hands of the terrorists. The terrorists want to see a rift between Muslims and non-Muslims and, in the long term, want to recruit lost Muslims who feel neglected by British society.
 
Zaynab, 32, Stanmore
I'm the 9/11 generation … now is the first time I’m worried to travel on public transport
Zaynab, 32, from Stanmore
I’m the 9/11 generation. I was in London for a university open day and saw the second plane crash in to the twin towers live on television. But now, for the first time, I’m worried to travel on public transport after seeing clips of insults and hearing of the abuse my friends have gone through. One of my friends had something thrown behind her, which sounded like a pop, and then the boys who threw it laughed and called her a terrorist. And I regularly see Facebook status updates about similar comments.
Personally, I haven’t felt the public’s perception change, however Muslim friends say they feel people are staring at them more. I feel very conscious when I see Wembley stadium in the distance, lit up in the colours of the French flag, as though it’s reminding me of tough times to come.
I know unemployed Muslims who are considering changing their name as they’ve been told that people will think negatively of their Muslim name, and not call them for an interview. We need the media to be more balanced at least and raise awareness of the challenges we face.
 
It’s time the media treated Muslims fairly
Miqdaad Versi
Read more
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/23/media-muslims-study
I’m fed up of seeing Muslims apologise, we haven’t done anything wrong! If anything we are in danger ourselves even more than before. I’m Shia Muslim and Isis have made it their mission to find us and kill us. We need more support and unity if we are to show Isis that their plan isn’t working. Right now, they’re killing us abroad in our countries of origin and making life here in our homes and neighbourhoods very difficult.
 
Jo, 35, Lancashire
We shouldn’t change because of how other people perceive us – and we shouldn’t have to
Jo, 35, from Lancashire
I don’t think people’s perception of me as an individual has changed since the attacks in Paris, but then again this is a small town. There have been a few incidences in nearby towns where women wearing the niqab have had alcohol poured over them, and abuse thrown at them.
I wear the hijab, and my children are clearly of mixed race, but we haven’t noticed any direct impact on our daily lives. My husband and friends are more cautious about us going out in the evening, and my parents have advised me to cancel my plans to visit a friend in London.
It is true to say that Muslims are a target now. We’re easily identified by what we wear and our mannerisms, but we shouldn’t change because of how other people perceive us. And we shouldn’t have to. Everybody wants to live in peace and everybody deserves the chance to. I know problems of this magnitude are not easily solved, but it’s the small things that change things. By getting to know each other, we will discover that we’re all the same,and at the same time make some new friends.
The media has treated this subject with a degree of sensitivity. But the tabloids are constantly injecting fear regarding the Islamic State, and about how the refugee crisis is causing strain on the EU. If the media continues to channel negativity, I think there’ll definitely be an impact on the Muslim community.
Since the Paris attacks, people on social media have been brutally honest regarding what they think caused the atrocities and how just a few extremists do not represent the Muslim population as a whole. Hopefully, if enough people get their views across it might just broaden a few minds.
 
Fatima, 27, Luton
I try to avoid sitting by myself in empty train carriages to avoid being harassed or targeted
Fatima, 27, from Luton
Luton is already a town torn between far-right extremism from Muslims and non-Muslims. These attacks have made the community very conscious of possible repercussions when traveling outside of the town. Though I am not a visible Muslim woman, the fear of being attacked stops me traveling into London to see friends.
I may not be a visible Muslim woman but Islam has definitely become attributed to ‘brown people’, even if they’re not Muslims. We saw this when a Sikh man was accused of being one of the attackers in last week’s attacks.
I try to avoid sitting by myself in empty train carriages to avoid being harassed or targeted. I certainly do not stand near the yellow line when I take the underground out of fear that someone may push me onto the tracks in front of an oncoming train. I’m having to take precautions at every single moment in my life, especially when in public, as I want to keep myself safe and away from harm.
Syrian refugees are being blamed, even though it turns out majority of the attackers thus far are French citizens and two of whom lived in Belgium. Then the Daily Mail’s publication of cartoons of Muslims as rats – a reference to the Syrian refugees – is exactly how the Jewish community was depicted in the 1930s. It is highly problematic and worrisome. I have avoided Facebook and Twitter simply because I think it is crucial to look after my mental health and sanity.
 
Sarah, 25, Manor House, London
I wish people would just put humanity before anything else​. We need to teach the ignorant how it’s meant to be
Sarah, 25, from Manor House
A woman was so nice to me recently. She became a friend to me on the bus, reassured me, and told me not to pay attention to negative comments. It made me feel like no matter what, the British community has goodness. However my aunt has been abused and a friend of mine consistently brought up the Paris attacks asking for explanation and it made me feel uncomfortable.
I feel like I don’t really belong here in the UK. I’ve been very scared to go on the street alone, so much so that I’ve skipped a few meetings. I have anxiety and would like to go somewhere where Muslims are a majority so I can feel like I blend in.
In some ways, the media have been exceptionally good in showing that the attacks are not the fault of all Muslims and have been encouraging people to stand up for Muslims. But in other ways, important incidents were not properly reported such as the many racial attacks that happen – and it matters for us, so people know where we are coming from in terms of our worries. The media needs to be our voice too.
I wish people would just put humanity before anything else. We need to teach the ignorant how it’s meant to be.

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by BlueBag on 22.11.15 10:05

Perhaps they could ask all those Muslims "what is the punishment for apostasy".

I'll like to hear their condemnation of such evil laws.

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Casey5 on 22.11.15 10:39

If they worry about being immediately recognised as Muslims due to their clothing then don't wear it. There's no religious requirement to cover the head or wear long flowing robes or the burkah - only for men and women to dress modestly and in most of the men's case this is jeans and a t-shirt.
And instead of playing the victim card, how about empathising with the people who've had their country changed beyond recognition and are fearful of Muslims in general. And with good right at the moment.

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.11.15 10:49

@bobbin wrote:
Just as many Irish people were wrongly ostracised when the criminal element of the IRA was actively attacking, it is important to see that individuals of any race or creed should not be tarred with the same brush as the criminal elements claiming association with that group.

REPLY: I can fully agree with the sentiment i.e. that no-one should be 'wrongly ostracised' for their colour or religion etc. - but where I part company from you is the dismissal of violent, jihadist Islamism as purely 'criminal elements'.

It is a great mercy that most Muslims do not follow the teachings of the Prophet Muhammed and the Koran. It is the violent jihadists who are most nearly following the teachings of the Prophet, and his later life obsession with violence, conquest, death and martyrdom.

To understand this better, I can think of no better article than this one: 'What ISIS Really Wants':
 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

...long, but exceptionally informative. Here is one short paragraph:

V
irtually every major decision and law promulgated by the Islamic State adheres to what it calls, in its press and pronouncements, and on its billboards, license plates, stationery, and coins, “the Prophetic methodology,” which means following the prophecy and example of Muhammad, in punctilious detail. Pretending that it isn’t actually a religious, millenarian group, with theology that must be understood to be combatted, has already led the United States to underestimate it and back foolish schemes to counter it.

------

 
Anonymous, 19, Preston
Being ostracised for being a Muslim isn’t great. It makes me feel impure, vulnerable and worst of all, a victim

REPLY: Absolutely typical of the general Muslim tendency to blame everybody else but themselves, their religion, their holy book and their Prophet for their troubles.

We get along well with all sorts of races and cultures here in the U.K.: Eastern Europeans, Indians, Jews, Chinese, those of African descent etc.   But at the core of Muslim ideology is the concept of conquering the world for Islam, and intolerance of the enemy - that's us, the 'kaffirs', the infidels...   
  

We greatly underestimate the danger from ISIS and its supporters if we write them off as just a few 'criminal elements'.

Please read the article
 

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Richard IV on 22.11.15 11:30

This is the moderate muslim Dr. Taj Hergey.  He is South African and has been condemned by extremists of his own religion for being so moderate. Hopefully as the generations progress, his perspective will become more commonplace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47mI3aFCg2Y

He was also on The Moral Maze last night. See here from 25 Mins in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06pbwzp#play

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by bobbin on 22.11.15 14:02

@Richard IV wrote:This is the moderate muslim Dr. Taj Hergey.  He is South African and has been condemned by extremists of his own religion for being so moderate. Hopefully as the generations progress, his perspective will become more commonplace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47mI3aFCg2Y

He was also on The Moral Maze last night. See here from 25 Mins in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06pbwzp#play
Thank you Richard IV. The first youtube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47mI3aFCg2Y is especially refreshing, erudite and courageous.

There followed another youtube after the above, by Professor A. C. Grayling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47mI3aFCg2Y

I found this even more compelling listening, for his own erudite perspective on religion and its very small position in the evolved thinking of a modern day / global society.

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.11.15 14:15

@bobbin wrote:
Thank you Richard IV. The first youtube...is especially refreshing, erudite and courageous.

There followed another youtube after the above, by Professor A. C. Grayling...I found this even more compelling listening...
Bringing this back to the Paris atrocities by militant Islamists - and Islam in general, I think this video (14 minutes):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiTPqIpGKJU

...will prove far more enlightening than either of the above, and exactly parallels the article I referred to just now, up the thread.

It's the great New York televised debate on the motion: "Islam is a  religion of peace?"

It features Douglas Murray, who implores us to look at the FACTS about Islam yesterday and today.

And watch to the end to see what happens when the large audience is asked how their opinion had shifted by the end of the debate...

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Richard IV on 22.11.15 14:35

@bobbin wrote:
@Richard IV wrote:This is the moderate muslim Dr. Taj Hergey.  He is South African and has been condemned by extremists of his own religion for being so moderate. Hopefully as the generations progress, his perspective will become more commonplace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47mI3aFCg2Y

He was also on The Moral Maze last night. See here from 25 Mins in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06pbwzp#play
Thank you Richard IV. The first youtube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47mI3aFCg2Y is especially refreshing, erudite and courageous.

There followed another youtube after the above, by Professor A. C. Grayling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47mI3aFCg2Y

I found this even more compelling listening, for his own erudite perspective on religion and its very small position in the evolved thinking of a modern day / global society.
Thanks Bobbin what an excellent speaker. Applaud the bit about the aims of education i.e. critical thinking and questioning being at odds with faith requirements.

Btw the link to Prof Grayling is

https://youtu.be/_o5LkMEfr_o

Sorry - going off topic a bit here.

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by BlueBag on 22.11.15 16:23

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
Thank you Richard IV. The first youtube...is especially refreshing, erudite and courageous.

There followed another youtube after the above, by Professor A. C. Grayling...I found this even more compelling listening...
Bringing this back to the Paris atrocities by militant Islamists - and Islam in general, I think this video (14 minutes):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiTPqIpGKJU

...will prove far more enlightening than either of the above, and exactly parallels the article I referred to just now, up the thread.

It's the great New York televised debate on the motion: "Islam is a  religion of peace?"

It features Douglas Murray, who implores us to look at the FACTS about Islam yesterday and today.

And watch to the end to see what happens when the large audience is asked how their opinion had shifted by the end of the debate...
Douglas Murray.

Atheist. Doesn't like religion.

But a Zionist.

Believes in free speech unless you are a critic of Israel - thinks these people should be sidelined.

Hmmm...

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Hobs on 22.11.15 19:52


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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by aquila on 22.11.15 19:57

Why anyone is trying to defend Islam in modern day beats the hell out of me.

Just my opinion and all that.

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.11.15 21:29

Disturbing but necessary factual reading about Islam and militant Islamists - thanks for posting! @ Hobs  

What does a statement analyst make of people who shout 'In the name of the Merciful One! God is Great!' when slaughtering hundreds of innocent people or bombing them to smithereens?

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Joss on 23.11.15 3:15

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Disturbing but necessary factual reading about Islam and militant Islamists - thanks for posting! @ Hobs  

What does a statement analyst make of people who shout 'In the name of the Merciful One! God is Great!' when slaughtering hundreds of innocent people or bombing them to smithereens?
Slaughtering other human beings and violence toward anyone is not okay in any way shape or form. Whether people do it in the name of their religion, or to declare war and then slaughter thousands of innocent human beings is just brutal and we should not tolerate or participate in any of it. And as far as that goes just about every country has blood on their hands for what they have perpetuated on their societies and others IMO. Killing is killing regardless of the reasons. Whatever happened to "thou shalt not kill"?

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.11.15 7:18

@Joss wrote:
Whatever happened to "thou shalt not kill"?
Christ confirmed that the Ten Commandments, including that one, were valid for all time.

The so-called 'prophet' Muhammed never mentioned it, and his last 10 years were absorbed in conquest, violence, killing, beheadings and martyrdom, hence his instruction - now in the Koran - "Slay the infidel wherever he may be found".

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by BlueBag on 23.11.15 7:48

After God commanded "Thou Shalt Not Kill" to Moses... he later commanded Saul to kill all the Amalekites, men, women and children and all their animals.

The Israelites did a lot of killing after that command and still do.

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Hobs on 23.11.15 9:20

@BlueBag wrote:After God commanded "Thou Shalt Not Kill" to Moses... he later commanded Saul to kill all the Amalekites, men, women and children and all their animals.

The Israelites did a lot of killing after that command and still do.
I presume your comment is in reference to palestine

93% of Palestinians are Muslim,the vast majority of whom are followers of the sunni branch of islam

It is a battle for survival of a small country surrounded by countries that loudly, proudly and actively want the elimination of its citizens and its inhabitants, no ifs or buts.


Would you rather stand by and watch muslims annihilate a whole country just because of their religion?
Wasn't that what hitler set out to do and almost succeeded?


Do you expect Israel to sit back and do nothing whilst rockets are fired at its population?
Do you expect soldiers to do nothing  whilst being attacked and stabbed?

Is it not allowed to defend itself?

I don't see Jews going around killing muslim citizens just because they are muslim,i don't se jews going around slaughtering Christians, Hindus, Buddhists in a wide variety of painful ways just because of their religion.

Muslims however regard every religion as fair game and yes, even other sects of islam, hence the ongoing war between sunni and shi'ite.






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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by BlueBag on 23.11.15 9:35

@Hobs wrote:

Would you rather stand by and watch muslims annihilate a whole country just because of their religion?
Wasn't that what hitler set out to do and almost succeeded?

Since 1947 the whole world has watched Zionists destroy a whole country because of their religion.

But hey.. It doesn't matter, they're only Muslims and not God's chosen people.



I'm not a big fan of Islam but human beings are human beings.

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by Joss on 23.11.15 11:18

@BlueBag wrote:
@Hobs wrote:

Would you rather stand by and watch muslims annihilate a whole country just because of their religion?
Wasn't that what hitler set out to do and almost succeeded?

Since 1947 the whole world has watched Zionists destroy a whole country because of their religion.

But hey.. It doesn't matter, they're only Muslims and not God's chosen people.



I'm not a big fan of Islam but human beings are human beings.

BlueBag. I totally agree with what you are saying. And yes, the Palestinians have been expelled from the land they once inhabited by the immigrant jews from Europe.

Background of the UN partition recommendation

In 1947 the UN took up the question of Palestine, a territory that was then administered by the British.
Approximately 50 years before, a movement called political Zionism had begun in Europe. Its intention was to create a Jewish state in Palestine through pushing out the Christian and Muslim inhabitants who made up over 95 percent of its population and replacing them with Jewish immigrants.
As this colonial project grew through subsequent years, the indigenous Palestinians reacted with occasional bouts of violence; Zionists had anticipated this since people usually resist being expelled from their land. In various written documents cited by numerous Palestinian and Israeli historians, they discussed their strategy: they would buy up the land until all the previous inhabitants had emigrated, or, failing this, use violence to force them out.
When the buy-out effort was able to obtain only a few percent of the land, Zionists created a number of terrorist groups to fight against both the Palestinians and the British. Terrorist and future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin later bragged that Zionists had brought terrorism both to the Middle East and to the world at large.
Finally, in 1947 the British announced that they would be ending their control of Palestine, which had been created through the League of Nations following World War One, and turned the question of Palestine over to the United Nations.
At this time, the Zionist immigration and buyout project had increased the Jewish population of Palestine to 30 percent and land ownership from 1 percent to approximately 6 percent.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/realstory.html

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by BlueBag on 23.11.15 11:51

Zionist and terrorism.

Find out about the bombing of the King David hotel.

People need to find out what really went on.

Genocide is apparently OK if God tells you to do it.

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by pennylane on 23.11.15 11:53

@Hobs wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:After God commanded "Thou Shalt Not Kill" to Moses... he later commanded Saul to kill all the Amalekites, men, women and children and all their animals.

The Israelites did a lot of killing after that command and still do.
I presume your comment is in reference to palestine

93% of Palestinians are Muslim,the vast majority of whom are followers of the sunni branch of islam

It is a battle for survival of a small country surrounded by countries that loudly, proudly and actively want the elimination of its citizens and its inhabitants, no ifs or buts.


Would you rather stand by and watch muslims annihilate a whole country just because of their religion?
Wasn't that what hitler set out to do and almost succeeded?


Do you expect Israel to sit back and do nothing whilst rockets are fired at its population?
Do you expect soldiers to do nothing  whilst being attacked and stabbed?

Is it not allowed to defend itself?

I don't see Jews going around killing muslim citizens just because they are muslim,i don't se jews going around slaughtering Christians, Hindus, Buddhists in a wide variety of painful ways just because of their religion.

Muslims however regard every religion as fair game and yes, even other sects of islam, hence the ongoing war between sunni and shi'ite.




You also don't see jews treating their female population like subhuman possessions, and not allowing them to be educated, or have their own passport, and enforcing marriage upon them, and the parents and family 'honor killing' those that want freedom.  I could go on and on regarding the barbaric treatment of Muslim women and young girls around the world, it's absolutely abhorrent!  sad

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Re: Paris Attacks, Friday 13 Nov 2015 - Bombs and shootings kill 80 in concert hall, dozens more in several other locations - over 200 more injured, many seriously

Post by BlueBag on 23.11.15 11:59

@pennylane wrote:

You also don't see jews treating their female population like subhuman possessions
Israel does treat Palestinians as subhuman, also there are some rabbis who consider all non-jews as sub-human.


Sephardi leader Yosef: Non-Jews exist to serve Jews
http://www.jta.org/2010/10/18/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/sephardi-leader-yosef-non-jews-exist-to-serve-jews

This isn't good guys verses bad guys.

These are all religious nuts and all sides.

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