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Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 01.01.16 23:43

@Verdi wrote:@Carry On Doctor wrote:  "2016 may well see the closure of OG (they know precisely what happened) but perhaps that will be due to a prosecution phase starting WRT the fund. Portugal are responsible for the homicide proceedings, so OG is of less relevance to the main event, so to speak. Irrespective of the status and outcome of current investigations, the truth generally does surface one way or another."

We still have the outcome of the legal case too, so a few milestones potentially coming up. So I remain optimistic on a number of fronts.

MBM and Brenda Leyland are both tragedies and are sadly no longer with us, but I believe Goncalo Amaral will have his day and achieve justice. What a party that day will be.

----------

Admirable sentiments, if only I could agree with you - but I can't!

Firstly, if the Fund is at the core of the UK's diligence then it would be in the hands of the fraud squad, a few weeks with them as a stand alone investigation is all that's required.  This is a trifling Limited Company posing as a charity, it wouldn't be difficult to uncover any irregularities in the Funds administration if it were a straightforward case of fraud.  Therefore, the only reason I can see to launch an investigation into the Fund would be if it could be proved that money was being raised under false pretenses - i.e. it is proven that the Fund's board of directors know that MBM is no longer alive.  If that was a possibility then the case of MBM's fate would need to be solved first.  Generally, I don't think you'll find that the police work backwards.

OG was there to assist the PJ on all fronts (hence the involvement of the CPS) but AFAIK can only prosecute on crimes committed in the UK. Investigations can run in tandem.

In addition, if as you say, Operation Grange know precisely what happened (personally I don't think anyone knows precisely what happened - outside of the perpetrators), if they are on the case so to speak, why have they spent the past five years shilly-shallying about at the expense of the UK tax payer?  If, as you say, they know exactly what happened why don't they act on that knowledge accordingly by prosecuting the offenders?

They can't not know, but a successful prosecution needs to be watertight, which takes time.


I'm sorry but I haven't a clue what you mean by "Irrespective of the status and outcome of current investigations, the truth generally does surface one way or another."  As for your reference to the outcome of the legal case - what legal case?  If you are referring to the McCanns case against Goncalo Amaral then  I can't understand how you make the connection.  The case has no connection whatsoever with the UK review/investigation (call it what you will) into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.  You seem to be making connections which don't exist - unless I'm missing something.

It means the truth will out. GA has stated he intends counter proceedings pending a successful outcome of McCann v Amaral. Whilst this is separate to the PJ/OG activities, it is another thing to look forward to, hence my optimism.

In my opinion, the most Dr. Amaral can hope for is to restore his reputation in his homeland, I trust that is his primary goal.  I don't think he can hope for anything beyond that for the simple reason that the case will never ever be solved!  Still, I could be wrong - that would be good news!

Hopefully, Yes ! - we can relax and listen to Jaques Loussier !

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Verdi on 02.01.16 21:57

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:
@Verdi wrote:@Carry On Doctor wrote:  "2016 may well see the closure of OG (they know precisely what happened) but perhaps that will be due to a prosecution phase starting WRT the fund. Portugal are responsible for the homicide proceedings, so OG is of less relevance to the main event, so to speak. Irrespective of the status and outcome of current investigations, the truth generally does surface one way or another."

We still have the outcome of the legal case too, so a few milestones potentially coming up. So I remain optimistic on a number of fronts.

MBM and Brenda Leyland are both tragedies and are sadly no longer with us, but I believe Goncalo Amaral will have his day and achieve justice. What a party that day will be.

----------

Admirable sentiments, if only I could agree with you - but I can't!

Firstly, if the Fund is at the core of the UK's diligence then it would be in the hands of the fraud squad, a few weeks with them as a stand alone investigation is all that's required.  This is a trifling Limited Company posing as a charity, it wouldn't be difficult to uncover any irregularities in the Funds administration if it were a straightforward case of fraud.  Therefore, the only reason I can see to launch an investigation into the Fund would be if it could be proved that money was being raised under false pretenses - i.e. it is proven that the Fund's board of directors know that MBM is no longer alive.  If that was a possibility then the case of MBM's fate would need to be solved first.  Generally, I don't think you'll find that the police work backwards.

OG was there to assist the PJ on all fronts (hence the involvement of the CPS) but AFAIK can only prosecute on crimes committed in the UK. Investigations can run in tandem.

I don't think you will find that Operation Grange was there to assist the PJ in any respect - let alone all fronts.  Operation Grange was instigated (indirectly) by the McCanns, aided and abetted by the ever resourceful Rebekah Brooks and her close consorts Theresa May and David Cameron.  It kicked off in May 2011 (coincidently the same time as Kate McCanns book 'madeleine' was published) as a review - a review of the PJ files!  It later morphed into a full blown re-investigation, for reasons best known to themselves - certainly wasn't because they had new intelligence, other wise they wouldn't still be fannying about five years later.  If you have evidence that Operation Grange has assisted the PJ in a joint investigation, bring it on because I've never seen any evidence of it. 

Broadly speaking, what you say about the UK police being only able to prosecute on home ground is correct which raises the question - why then have they spent in excess of £12m over a period of five years when they have no jurisdiction to prosecute?



In addition, if as you say, Operation Grange know precisely what happened (personally I don't think anyone knows precisely what happened - outside of the perpetrators), if they are on the case so to speak, why have they spent the past five years shilly-shallying about at the expense of the UK tax payer?  If, as you say, they know exactly what happened why don't they act on that knowledge accordingly by prosecuting the offenders?

They can't not know, but a successful prosecution needs to be watertight, which takes time.

"They can't not know" - how so?  Operation Grange has scaled down to almost nothing with an addition £2m allocated and is due to be disbanded in the very near future - does that sound like a prosecution is on the horizon?  Do you really believe they have fresh information to lead to a prosecution - do you think maybe they've located one of the two e-fits released during the Crimewatch - or both?

I'm sorry but I haven't a clue what you mean by "Irrespective of the status and outcome of current investigations, the truth generally does surface one way or another."  As for your reference to the outcome of the legal case - what legal case?  If you are referring to the McCanns case against Goncalo Amaral then  I can't understand how you make the connection.  The case has no connection whatsoever with the UK review/investigation (call it what you will) into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.  You seem to be making connections which don't exist - unless I'm missing something.

It means the truth will out. GA has stated he intends counter proceedings pending a successful outcome of McCann v Amaral. Whilst this is separate to the PJ/OG activities, it is another thing to look forward to, hence my optimism.


Unfortunately the truth will not always out.  Dr. Amaral lost any chance of retribution the moment the McCann family (minus Madeleine) boarded that aircraft en-route for the UK in September 2007.  Short of restoring his reputation, IMO it would be nothing short of madness to endlessly pursue the McCanns - it's too late.   

In my opinion, the most Dr. Amaral can hope for is to restore his reputation in his homeland, I trust that is his primary goal.  I don't think he can hope for anything beyond that for the simple reason that the case will never ever be solved!  Still, I could be wrong - that would be good news!

Hopefully, Yes ! - we can relax and listen to Jaques Loussier !

No offence but I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on in that head of yours. 

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Doug D on 11.03.16 19:24

Nothing new, but just a confirmation FOI response (don’t know who requested it) dated 7th March 2016 re Op. Grange:

Freedom of Information Request Reference No:

I note you seek access to the following information:

How many Police officers and civilian staff were on this operation [Operation Grange] on 30/11/2015 and 31/12/2015, respectively.

DECISION

I have today decided to disclose the located information to you in full.

1 Detective Sergeant and 3 Detective Constables are dedicated to Op Grange, they are attached to, and under the supervision of, a full Murder Investigation Team, these numbers did not change for the time period you specified.

Information Rights Unit

http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2016/march_2016/2016010001047.pdf

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