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Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Casey5 on 29.10.15 20:33

@jeanmonroe wrote:
'Is, are, have, OG, EVER really, physically, 'hunted' for a 'live' Madeleine McCann.?

Did they, OG, ever, 'hunt down' and find the 'hellish lair', within a radius of 10 kms of PDL, where. the McCann's ONLY 'professional' PI, DE, says Madeleine 'is being held'?

I'm just wondering, exactly, what ACTUAL 'hunting', of/for a 'live' Madeleine McCann, have OG 'done', in their 4 1/2 years, of 'investigation' as the lead UK Police force 'tasked' with 'finding' Madeleine?

Not saying, just asking.
------------------------------------------------------------------
jeanmonroe,Has anyone actually physically looked for Madeleine after the PJ wound down their search after Madeleine "went missing"?Her parents never searched, nor did their friends or family. There was plenty of lying beside the pool and jogging but no searching.
Plenty of standing outside supermarkets with begging bowls and leaflets but no actual searching.

Plenty of photo opportunities where Kate and Gerry had special times with the twins or gazed forlornly out to sea whilst sitting on a rock but no searching.
They could have used a battalion of friends, family and well-wishers to map out the whole of the "ten mile radius of bandid hinterland where Madeleine was definitely hidden and search each area thoroughly in the past 8 years.
Instead they've hounded the only person who was actually looking for their daughter.
Poor Madeleine.





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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Guest on 29.10.15 21:53

@sharonl wrote:... that hellish lair in PDL as far as we know.
From someone living in Luz, enjoy the delusion.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Guest on 29.10.15 22:17

@roy rovers wrote:http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459

Worth reading the Met statement in full (see link above). Some of the wording is interesting:

1. 'the vast majority of the work by Operation Grange has been completed' - How do they know this? Was it was known at the outset?
2. 'This work has enabled us to better understand events in Praia da Luz the night Madeleine McCann went missing' - In what way?

I don't think this is as whitewashy as some believe. Just IMO.
This is meant tongue in cheek, so please take it as so.

"One cannot, even with a state of the art pickaxe and shovel, dig a grave in central Luz on any night, let alone the night Maddie went missing" aka we better understand ...

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by lj on 30.10.15 0:02

But why give the neglectful pseudoparents the opportunity to voice their opinion (whatever cr@p it may be) in an official police update?

Isn't that the best proof it is all BS and a whitewash? They did not need their opinion there. Nobody would have missed it if that was not published, it has no place there. All the same they get about a quarter of the "update".

Amazing: the 2 main suspects get to conclude an update about the police investigation. Maybe they should make that standard.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by lj on 30.10.15 0:06

@Rogue-a-Tory wrote:Met investigation
1,338 statements taken
1,027 exhibits collected
60 persons of interest investigated
8,685 potential sightings considered
560 lines of inquiry identified
30 requests made to other countries asking for work to be carried out

But still 48 questions remain unanswered - yelled the vast majority of the UK & Portugal 


Great summary!

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by aquila on 30.10.15 8:32

I wonder if the PJ will release files ever again on the Madeleine McCann case.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Doug D on 30.10.15 9:53

We’ve had Natasha Donn’s article from the ‘Resident’, but I don’t think we’ve had this one from the Portugal News. I’ve snipped the middle out which is just the Met statement re-hashed:
 
UK police announce massive cut back on Madeleine McCann inquiry
 
IN NEWS · 29-10-2015 12:17:00 · 0 COMMENTS
 
The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) on Wednesday, 28 October announced that it will be reducing the team working on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from 29 to just four. This comes after widespread cuts in the UK suffered by law enforcement authorities and also revelations that almost 15 million euros of the British taxpayer’s money had been spent since the launch of the case review in 2011 without any success.
Following the announcement, police sources in Portugal said there side of the investigation was ongoing.
 
(Snipped out the Met statement from the middle)
 
Speaking to The Portugal News on Wednesday, a Portuguese police source said that while there are “about two or three other cases of missing children in Portugal, but we have a reasonable understanding of who might be responsible for their disappearance. However in the case of Madeleine McCann, we are yet to come up with a satisfactory explanation as to what happened to her”, saying that this a feature of the case that will keep it alive here even if the case into her disappearance were to one day be shelved.
 
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/uk-police-announce-massive-cut-back-on-madeleine-mccann-inquiry/36430

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by aquila on 30.10.15 11:40

There you go Doug D

There will be no more files issued from Portugal in the case of Madeleine McCann.

The case is/isn't still open in Portugal but there is an open case in UK albeit scaled down to four members of staff.

Job done!

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Doug D on 30.10.15 13:42

Somewhat hidden amongst the Sun’s  article is the following:

McCanns: We’ll never give up
SUN EXCLUSIVE: £750k in Maddie fund
 
Snipped:
 
But last night serious questions were being asked about the wisdom of the ultimately futile investigation.
 
How could an inquiry that to date has cost more than £11million seemingly achieve so little?

The British taskforce, which at its height was 37-strong, has yet to make a single arrest, despite 560 lines of inquiry and 60 suspects.
It also became mired in a spending controversy with some cops staying in the £200-a-night five-star Hotel Dona Filipa during visits to Portugal. Last year there were 67 flights to the country by cops costing £16,000, with overtime on top.

So what were all these officers actually doing?
 
A former Met Police officer who knew two Detective Chief Inspectors working on Operation Grange, said the mood among the squad is “muted”. He told The Sun last night: “Everyone wanted to do their best for Madeleine but they are not miracle workers.”

Another well-placed source added: “What seemed obtainable at the start seemed impossible in the end.”

Operation Grange was set up in 2011 after an open letter by the McCanns to David Cameron was printed in The Sun.
It had been four years since Madeleine, three, disappeared from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007.

The McCanns were desperate for a British police review as they believed the Portuguese authorities had hopelessly bungled their investigation. Funded by the Home Office, it was initially given a budget of £5million.

The family were overjoyed by the move and certainly in the early days it offered them much hope.

Detective Inspector Hamish Campbell, the first head of Operation Grange, said within months that his team were investigating new leads, new sightings and new lines of inquiry.
 
By the latest count, the Met claims “7,154 actions had been raised” and 560 lines of inquiry identified. They had identified more than 60 persons of interest and 650 sex offenders were also investigated.

But the numbers mask the chaos going on behind the scenes.


In June last year UK search teams spent seven days scouring wasteland around Praia da Luz.

Sniffer dogs, helicopters and ground-penetrating radar were called in. TV crews and reporters from around the world flooded into the seaside village believing a body was about to be found — but nothing was unearthed.

Portuguese cops said all the areas had been already been searched several times since Madeleine went missing.

In July 2014 British cops flew to Portugal to question four new suspects. But they had to wait while they were quizzed by Portuguese police and were not allowed to ask questions themselves.

In December last year they returned to question another ten — with the same result.

To date, the operation’s most important line of inquiry was a three-man burglary team whose mobile phones placed them near the McCanns’ apartment at the time Madeleine vanished. But so far no one has been arrested or even questioned.

The winding-down of the operation will be welcomed by some.

In March soaring costs and lack of progress prompted Met Police Federation chairman John Tully to question whether it should continue.
He said: “We no longer have the resources to conduct specialist inquiries all over the world which have nothing to do with London.”
 
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6716434/McCanns-vow-to-keep-searching-for-Maddie.html
 
……………………………………..
 
Surely they are not suggesting that with all this money and effort the Met have also ‘hopelessly bungled their investigation’ are they?

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by aquila on 30.10.15 14:53

This little girl who was so badly let down by everyone around her was reduced to this in an ad campaign.







Has she been let down? Too bloody right she has.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Verdi on 30.10.15 15:27

If it's comparison your looking for ..

Chilcot report to be published next summer after security checks

(snipped)


Sir John Chilcot has announced that he is to publish his long-awaited report into the Iraq war in June or July next year, giving government officials up to three months to carry out national security checks on its findings.

The further wait for the report’s publication prompted David Cameron to say he was “immensely frustrated” on behalf of families who lost loved ones in the war after the former civil servant said he would complete his work seven years after Gordon Brown set up the inquiry.



http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/29/sir-john-chilcot-iraq-war-report-published-next-june

According to a report I read earlier, this inquiry has so far cost the UK tax payer 10 million quid - go figure!

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by aquila on 30.10.15 16:08

No-one, no-one is showing aged progressed photographs of Madeleine McCann. Her parents are not promoting them, SY aren't promoting them and neither are McCann supporters.

I don't understand this. If Madeleine is alive and findable it wouldn't be wrong to go promote what Madeleine could look like at age 12, after all the McCanns thought it OK to show her eye defect at a time when she could have been held hostage and it may have been dangerous to Madeleine.

A lot of money has been paid to produce age progressed photographs of Madeleine. So please tell me why her parents, SY, PJ and the UK media are not routinely promoting these images. The UK Press were very interested in age progressed images when Gerry McCann went to Washington.

Why doesn't the findmadeleine website actively show what she might look like today?

Who are people supposed to be searching for? The little iconic girl who was 'abducted'?

I don't understand the McCanns. They've had so much assistance, why not use the money in their fund to at least pay to promote what Madeleine could look like today if they believe her alive and findable. It's clear to everyone they are not actively looking for their own daughter.



Tee shirts of Madeleine aged almost 4 years are still available to purchase on the McCann's website.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Doug D on 30.10.15 16:41

Aquila, same as the ‘urgency’ surrounding both the Met. and the Portuguese investigations.
 
It was completely apparent from their approach that there was no possible way that they were looking for a live child.
 
No live child, so what is the point of ‘age progression’ photos.
 
Bit like the bollocks surrounding the original ‘missing’ photos, give people a photo of what she used to look like, not what she looked like on the holiday. Why produce an up to the minute holiday photo – somebody might actually have recognized her and remembered something.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Angelique on 30.10.15 17:38

aquila

I think it is because the picture of Madeleine in the red dress has become "iconic", as you say. 

Just like people buy memorabilia perhaps they believe people will want to have a 't' shirt with this photo on?

Any way to make money IMO.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Richard IV on 30.10.15 18:34

@Angelique wrote:aquila

I think it is because the picture of Madeleine in the red dress has become "iconic", as you say. 

Just like people buy memorabilia perhaps they believe people will want to have a 't' shirt with this photo on?

Any way to make money IMO.

The word `iconic` I find worrying. Next thing we`ll hear is that someone has had a vision of her and shrines being erected.  Makes me shudder.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Verdi on 30.10.15 20:20

McCanns 'remain hopeful' as police scale back hunt for missing Madeleine after 8 years  Daily Express - 28th October 2015

[Snipped - colourful bits are my contribution]

The team of 29 British detectives who have been searching for the little girl, who vanished from her parents' holiday apartment in Portugal in May 2007, will be reduced to just four who will focus solely on the child's dissapearance.

It is believed they were concentrating on one main suspect, who died two years ago.

[take note anyone who thinks this Operation Grange is not a whitewash]


The Metropoltian Police was tasked with investigating the disappearance after Maddie's parents Kate and Gerry McCann made a personal plea to Prime Minister David Cameron in 2011.

[with a little help from the femme fatale Rebekah Brooks]

Yet despite costing the taxpayer a staggering £10million and dozens of trips by officers to the Algarve the inquiry - codenamed Operation Grange - has not led to a single arrest.

[nor a single lead by all accounts]

Even though Kate, 47, and Gerry, 46, live in Rothley, Leicestershire, Scotland Yard was handed the investigation because of its expertise in investigating complex murder cases.

[complex murder cases?  hmmm]

However, to date, not one shred of proof of what happened to Madeleine has been unearthed.

[clearly Operation Grange has overlooked wonder dogs Eddie and Keela - how remiss, I trust not deliberate.  Back to the UK forensic lab I think]

Mr and Mrs McCann said they still did not know what had happened to their daughter.

[no comment]

They said: "We would like to thank all the staff from Operation Grange for the meticulous and painstaking work that they have carried out over the last four and a half years. The scale and difficulty of their task has never been in doubt.

[how quaint]

"We are reassured that the investigation to find Madeleine has been significantly progressed and the MPS has a much clearer picture of the events in Praia da Luz leading up to Madeleine's abduction in 2007.

[so significantly progressed that they are no further forward?]

"Given that the review phase of the investigation is essentially completed, we fully understand the reasons why the team is being reduced.

[how condescending of you both]

"We would also like to thank the Home Office for continuing to support the investigation.

[perhaps you should thank the British public - it's their money]

"Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry. "

[no comment]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/615298/Madeleine-McCann-missing-search-called-off-Scotland-Yard?_ga=1.13404087.180837996.1442870912

So there you have it, well over eight years down the line, millions expended and not a thing to show for it.  Farcically, the case was all but solved in the summer of 2007 with the help of canine expertise and shrewed detective work - the rest is but cosmetic!

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by lj on 01.11.15 14:17

@Richard IV wrote:
@Angelique wrote:aquila

I think it is because the picture of Madeleine in the red dress has become "iconic", as you say. 

Just like people buy memorabilia perhaps they believe people will want to have a 't' shirt with this photo on?

Any way to make money IMO.

The word `iconic` I find worrying. Next thing we`ll hear is that someone has had a vision of her and shrines being erected.  Makes me shudder.

It has been like that since the beginning. Just remember Fatima or how every year they kidnap the war memorial in Rothley, as if anyone in this sorry saga (apart from maybe Dr. Amaral) have a hero part in this.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Rogue-a-Tory on 01.11.15 19:53

@Doug D wrote:Somewhat hidden amongst the Sun’s  article is the following:

McCanns: We’ll never give up
SUN EXCLUSIVE: £750k in Maddie fund
 
Snipped:
 
But last night serious questions were being asked about the wisdom of the ultimately futile investigation.
 
How could an inquiry that to date has cost more than £11million seemingly achieve so little?

The British taskforce, which at its height was 37-strong, has yet to make a single arrest, despite 560 lines of inquiry and 60 suspects.
It also became mired in a spending controversy with some cops staying in the £200-a-night five-star Hotel Dona Filipa during visits to Portugal. Last year there were 67 flights to the country by cops costing £16,000, with overtime on top.

So what were all these officers actually doing?
 
A former Met Police officer who knew two Detective Chief Inspectors working on Operation Grange, said the mood among the squad is “muted”. He told The Sun last night: “Everyone wanted to do their best for Madeleine but they are not miracle workers.”

Another well-placed source added: “What seemed obtainable at the start seemed impossible in the end.”

Operation Grange was set up in 2011 after an open letter by the McCanns to David Cameron was printed in The Sun.
It had been four years since Madeleine, three, disappeared from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007.

The McCanns were desperate for a British police review as they believed the Portuguese authorities had hopelessly bungled their investigation. Funded by the Home Office, it was initially given a budget of £5million.

The family were overjoyed by the move and certainly in the early days it offered them much hope.

Detective Inspector Hamish Campbell, the first head of Operation Grange, said within months that his team were investigating new leads, new sightings and new lines of inquiry.
 
By the latest count, the Met claims “7,154 actions had been raised” and 560 lines of inquiry identified. They had identified more than 60 persons of interest and 650 sex offenders were also investigated.

But the numbers mask the chaos going on behind the scenes.


In June last year UK search teams spent seven days scouring wasteland around Praia da Luz.

Sniffer dogs, helicopters and ground-penetrating radar were called in. TV crews and reporters from around the world flooded into the seaside village believing a body was about to be found — but nothing was unearthed.

Portuguese cops said all the areas had been already been searched several times since Madeleine went missing.

In July 2014 British cops flew to Portugal to question four new suspects. But they had to wait while they were quizzed by Portuguese police and were not allowed to ask questions themselves.

In December last year they returned to question another ten — with the same result.

To date, the operation’s most important line of inquiry was a three-man burglary team whose mobile phones placed them near the McCanns’ apartment at the time Madeleine vanished. But so far no one has been arrested or even questioned.

The winding-down of the operation will be welcomed by some.

In March soaring costs and lack of progress prompted Met Police Federation chairman John Tully to question whether it should continue.
He said: “We no longer have the resources to conduct specialist inquiries all over the world which have nothing to do with London.”
 
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6716434/McCanns-vow-to-keep-searching-for-Maddie.html
 
……………………………………..
 
Surely they are not suggesting that with all this money and effort the Met have also ‘hopelessly bungled their investigation’ are they?
Wonder how many 'huge chunks' £750,000 represents? Well it's either 10 pink ones or 1 and a half Halligans   big grin

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by canada12 on 01.11.15 20:24

Another well-placed source added: “What seemed obtainable at the start seemed impossible in the end.”

The "obtainable" was the remit that a child had been abducted.
The "impossible" is the remit that a child had been abducted.
Perhaps we should read between the lines?
It is now impossible that Madeleine was abducted.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Doug D on 01.11.15 21:53

That thought is certainly worthy of a 'like' Canada12.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by aquila on 01.11.15 22:09

Jimmy (no flags) Gamble is remarkably quiet on all things McCann - why, it was only this time last year he was extremely vociferous in his support of Summers & Swan, troll issues etc

It was Jimmy no flags who had much to say about there being well intentioned (but unco-ordinated) assistance from UK police.

Madeleine who?

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Bishop Brennan on 02.11.15 12:56

After almost a year of no news whatsoever, it sounds like the UK are finally throwing in the towel.  What a complete waste of money.  The McCanns, who might have been worried during this silent period, have rediscovered their media confidence and have broken cover in order to celebrate:  

 - Statements to the press about giant war-chests for the ongoing search; 
 - Magnanimous thanks to the proud men and women of the MET who "really did try their best"; 
 - New injunctions against Amaral to try and persuade his wife to split their joint assets so that the McCanns can seize them
 - New "paedo" suspects on the front-page  

Seems that the McCanns know it's over.  The MET know it too.   All that remains is the decision of the Portuguese appeal court, and that I suspect will be it.  McCanns to collect a giant wad or possibly a reduced wad of cash.  Police put the whole thing to bed over the period of a few months. Intermittent media stories from the McCanns for ever more.  

Unless of course a miracle happens... but now - as indeed since this started - there simply is no evidence for that. Optimism has kept us going all these years - or is it denial?   Meanwhile, it's hard to imagine the levels of anger and frustration in good police officers (now released) who for the past 4 years have been prevented from looking at the most likely suspects since day 1. 

Anyway - fingers crossed for that miracle!   pray2

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Bishop Brennan on 02.11.15 13:03

@aquila wrote:Jimmy (no flags) Gamble is remarkably quiet on all things McCann - why, it was only this time last year he was extremely vociferous in his support of Summers & Swan, troll issues etc

It was Jimmy no flags who had much to say about there being well intentioned (but unco-ordinated) assistance from UK police.

Madeleine who?

Oh, I think his job is done.  


He was selected as head cheerleader for the Summers & Swan book - trying to give it some credibility.  

Result: Failed.


He was selected as head of the vigilante mob to go after net "trolls" - using his police background for credibility and fear.  

Result: Death. 


Small wonder that this particularly nasty man slunk away into the darkness never to be heard of again.

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Doug D on 09.11.15 16:22

From todays FOI disclosures dated 1st Nov. on Met Police page.
 
Don’t know what date ‘todays date’ is but obviously pre-28th October when they announced the scaling back.
 
Only 4 return flights to Portugal this year ‘to date’ though.


Not sure why the asked Q.3 unless they thought she had slipped out the side door.


 
Freedom of Information Request Reference No:
 
I note you seek access to the following information:
 
1. Please disclose the number of officers currently working on Operation Grange, with a breakdown showing their ranks;
 
2. Please disclose the number of police staff currently working on Operation Grange.
 
3. Please disclose the name of the SIO on Op Grange.
 
4.Please disclose the total number of flights made to Portugal in 2015 (from January to today’s date) by officers and staff on Op Grange.
 
DECISION
 
I have today decided to disclose the located information to you in full.
 
Question 1 - Please disclose the number of officers currently working on Operation Grange, with a breakdown showing their ranks;
 
Op Grange currently consists of:
1 x Detective Chief Inspector 2 x Detective Inspectors 3 x Detective Sergeants 12 x Detective Constables
 
Question 2 - Please disclose the number of police staff currently working on Operation Grange.
 
8 x Police Staff 3 x Contract Staff
 
Question 3 - Please disclose the name of the SIO on Op Grange.
 
Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall
 
Question 4 - Please disclose the total number of flights made to Portugal in 2015 (from January to today’s date) by officers and staff on Op Grange.
 
There have been a total of four (4) return flights to Portugal since January 2015 to date.
 
Information Rights Unit
 
http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2015/november_2015/2015090001421.pdf

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Re: Police hunt for Madeleine McCann is scaled back

Post by Verdi on 01.01.16 23:15

@Carry On Doctor wrote:  "2016 may well see the closure of OG (they know precisely what happened) but perhaps that will be due to a prosecution phase starting WRT the fund. Portugal are responsible for the homicide proceedings, so OG is of less relevance to the main event, so to speak. Irrespective of the status and outcome of current investigations, the truth generally does surface one way or another."

We still have the outcome of the legal case too, so a few milestones potentially coming up. So I remain optimistic on a number of fronts.

MBM and Brenda Leyland are both tragedies and are sadly no longer with us, but I believe Goncalo Amaral will have his day and achieve justice. What a party that day will be.

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Admirable sentiments, if only I could agree with you - but I can't!

Firstly, if the Fund is at the core of the UK's diligence then it would be in the hands of the fraud squad, a few weeks with them as a stand alone investigation is all that's required.  This is a trifling Limited Company posing as a charity, it wouldn't be difficult to uncover any irregularities in the Funds administration if it were a straightforward case of fraud.  Therefore, the only reason I can see to launch an investigation into the Fund would be if it could be proved that money was being raised under false pretenses - i.e. it is proven that the Fund's board of directors know that MBM is no longer alive.  If that was a possibility then the case of MBM's fate would need to be solved first.  Generally, I don't think you'll find that the police work backwards.

In addition, if as you say, Operation Grange know precisely what happened (personally I don't think anyone knows precisely what happened - outside of the perpetrators), if they are on the case so to speak, why have they spent the past five years shilly-shallying about at the expense of the UK tax payer?  If, as you say, they know exactly what happened why don't they act on that knowledge accordingly by prosecuting the offenders? 

I'm sorry but I haven't a clue what you mean by "Irrespective of the status and outcome of current investigations, the truth generally does surface one way or another."  As for your reference to the outcome of the legal case - what legal case?  If you are referring to the McCanns case against Goncalo Amaral then  I can't understand how you make the connection.  The case has no connection whatsoever with the UK review/investigation (call it what you will) into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.  You seem to be making connections which don't exist - unless I'm missing something.

In my opinion, the most Dr. Amaral can hope for is to restore his reputation in his homeland, I trust that is his primary goal.  I don't think he can hope for anything beyond that for the simple reason that the case will never ever be solved!  Still, I could be wrong - that would be good news!

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