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AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

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AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.09.15 9:53

AT LEAST 717 [LATEST - 2.15pm] people have been trampled to death in this latest tragic incident at the Hajj - and over a thousand more [LATEST] more injured. And that's after 108 were killed by a large crane falling on top of them at the same event a week ago:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34346449

A further tragedy is that this has happened time and time again in the past - thousands have perished by being trampled underfoot in this bizarre and very dangerous ritual. Clearly their Health & Safety Regulations need updating.

Moreover, this stampede occurred at a ritual called 'Stoning the Devil', where they throw large pebbles at three large stone pillars near a big black cube said to represent the devil. Over the years, many pilgrims have been killed because they happened to get in the way of a pebble. It is sheer, collective, madness.     

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj

Imams tell Muslims that they MUST do the Hajj at least once in their lifetimes.

It is a vast money-spinning event for Saudi Arabia, as Muslims from around the world book flights and accommodation to fulfil their imams'  instructions. Poorer Muslims save up for years to attend this event.

Only to die in agony as they are trampled to death.

What a terrible, evil, wicked religion this is on so many levels. 

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by BlueBag on 24.09.15 11:38

A few years ago the same thing happened.

I remember the excuse trotted out then, that it was their time and they would have died wherever they were in the world at that moment.

Another crazy sect that believes in predestiny.

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by sallypelt on 24.09.15 12:10

Saudi Arabia, the Muslim country that refuses to take Muslim refugees, and house them in the hundreds of thousands of AIR CONDITIONED tens; tents that are only used 5 days out of the year.

Pic of those tents, below:


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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.09.15 12:33

@sallypelt wrote:Saudi Arabia, the Muslim country that refuses to take Muslim refugees, and house them in the hundreds of thousands of AIR CONDITIONED tens; tents that are only used 5 days out of the year.

Pic of those tents, below:


AND...

Saudi Arabia funds at least one third - some say over a half - of all Britain's 1,000-plus mosques.

(Or is it 2,000 by now?)

The Saudi royal family adheres to the Wahhabi sect of Islam, which basically takes the Prophet Mohammed's bloodcurdling words as reported in the Koran as commandments - and therefore backs the jihadist, militant Islamist ideology behind e.g. Al Qa'eda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Hezbollah, Hamas, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, the Muslim Brotherhood etc. etc.     

We cosy up to them because we sell them lots of weapons and infrastructure programmes

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up to 400 people trampled to death-Haji

Post by willowthewisp on 24.09.15 12:39

The article states that the ownership of the event is in one families control and this was not the case from years ago, so the one owner would be liable for any failings of personal safety at the event?
How Ironic, that the Bin Laden family name given as the owners of the Crane that toppled over killing innocent people in the vicinity of it's collapse?
Perhaps the people in the UK should gather around the "House's of Parliament" and throw stones to rid themselves of the Devil? winkwink

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by aquila on 24.09.15 12:43

@willowthewisp wrote:The article states that the ownership of the event is in one families control and this was not the case from years ago, so the one owner would be liable for any failings of personal safety at the event?
How Ironic, that the Bin Laden family name given as the owners of the Crane that toppled over killing innocent people in the vicinity of it's collapse?
Perhaps the people in the UK should gather around the "House's of Parliament" and throw stones to rid themselves of the Devil? winkwink
Can you imagine any religious ceremony in the Western world that demands you throw stones?

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400 Deaths at haji

Post by willowthewisp on 24.09.15 12:56

@aquila wrote:
@willowthewisp wrote:The article states that the ownership of the event is in one families control and this was not the case from years ago, so the one owner would be liable for any failings of personal safety at the event?
How Ironic, that the Bin Laden family name given as the owners of the Crane that toppled over killing innocent people in the vicinity of it's collapse?
Perhaps the people in the UK should gather around the "House's of Parliament" and throw stones to rid themselves of the Devil? winkwink
Can you imagine any religious ceremony in the Western world that demands you throw stones?
Isn't it in the Bible,"Let him without Sin cast the first stone"?

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by aquila on 24.09.15 13:07

@willowthewisp wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@willowthewisp wrote:The article states that the ownership of the event is in one families control and this was not the case from years ago, so the one owner would be liable for any failings of personal safety at the event?
How Ironic, that the Bin Laden family name given as the owners of the Crane that toppled over killing innocent people in the vicinity of it's collapse?
Perhaps the people in the UK should gather around the "House's of Parliament" and throw stones to rid themselves of the Devil? winkwink
Can you imagine any religious ceremony in the Western world that demands you throw stones?
Isn't it in the Bible,"Let him without Sin cast the first stone"?
I don't see the stoning to death of people in the Western world. I don't see anything in the Western world that deems throwing stones a good thing to do. I guess I'm just a Western world gal who thinks it's not ok to thrown physcial stones at anyone.

I've worked for some weird companies in my time (the Mormon company was truly weird), I've worked with Buddhists who turned up in my office with shaved heads, dressed in orange and brought really the most awful food which they had taken great care to make and stunk the office out for days. I've worked with Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Rastas and more. The only people who have ever caused me a worry to the future of my country are Muslims.

Now if that makes me anti islam I couldn't give a toss. I don't like women in my country being treated as second class citizens. No woman in my country has to wear a mask to please a man. If Islam doesn't like my opinion then stuff them.

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Deaths at Haji

Post by willowthewisp on 24.09.15 13:18

Hi Aquila,
I was not stating to begin throwing stones at Parliament it was meant as sarcasm and to how the religion in the East use it at a ceremony?
The bible quote, is saying"no one is without sin"so if you haven't sinned, there is no need to throw stones?
In a utopian world there may be equality, but the real world is different as in race and gender of people?
thanks for your postings. friends

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by aquila on 24.09.15 13:59

@willowthewisp wrote:Hi Aquila,
I was not stating to begin throwing stones at Parliament it was meant as sarcasm and to how the religion in the East use it at a ceremony?
The bible quote, is saying"no one is without sin"so if you haven't sinned, there is no need to throw stones?
In a utopian world there may be equality, but the real world is different as in race and gender of people?
thanks for your postings. friends
I had a long conversation with a South African chap who worked in Saudi. He said there is only work in Saudi because there is no life to be had other than working to earn a load of tax free money in order to get back to your home country. He told me about the public executions and how everyone turns out to watch. This chap was in his early 30's and said he planned to leave very soon.

I spoke to a couple of people whilst waiting for a connecting flight in Dubai who were returning to their respective European countries after a stint as medic in Afghanistan. They were earnest (I have a face you need to speak the truth to) and said they had made so much money from being medics. These two people were taking flights to separate countries. They had merely left on the same day and taken flights to Dubai to get connections. I asked them about their time in Afghanistan. They said it was hell on earth and they were glad to get out and to have earned enough to clear off.

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by lj on 24.09.15 16:19

@Tony Bennett wrote:AT LEAST 717 [LATEST - 2.15pm] people have been trampled to death in this latest tragic incident at the Hajj - and over a thousand more [LATEST] more injured. And that's after 108 were killed by a large crane falling on top of them at the same event a week ago:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34346449

A further tragedy is that this has happened time and time again in the past - thousands have perished by being trampled underfoot in this bizarre and very dangerous ritual. Clearly their Health & Safety Regulations need updating.

Moreover, this stampede occurred at a ritual called 'Stoning the Devil', where they throw large pebbles at a big black cube said to represent the devil. Over the years, many pilgrims have been killed because they happened to get in the way of a pebble. It is sheer, collective, madness.     

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj

Imams tell Muslims that they MUST do the Hajj at least once in their lifetimes.

It is a vast money-spinning event for Saudi Arabia, as Muslims from around the world book flights and accommodation to fulfil their imams'  instructions. Poorer Muslims save up for years to attend this event.

Only to die in agony as they are trampled to death.

What a terrible, evil, wicked religion this is on so many levels. 


Islam is sheer madness, period. It is not a religion, it is an ultraviolent terroristic organisation.

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by Tony Bennett on 25.09.15 8:15

This BBC News report about the mass deaths at the Hajj must surely break the world record for absolutely stunnimg, breathtaking, hypocrisy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34354651

QUOTE

Saudi Arabia's King Salman has ordered a safety review for the Hajj pilgrimage after at least 717 people died in a stampede near the holy city of Mecca.

Another 863 people were injured in the incident at Mina, which occurred as two million pilgrims were taking part in the Hajj's last major rite.

It is the deadliest incident to occur during the pilgrimage in 25 years.

The king said there was a need "to improve the level of organisation and management of movement" of pilgrims.

A commission to investigate the crush has been formed by the Saudi government.

The Saudi health minister, Khaled al-Falih, said the crush occurred because many pilgrims moved "without respecting the timetables" established by authorities.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran, which lost at least 95 of its citizens in the crush, said the Saudi government "must accept the huge responsibility for this catastrophe".

He added that "mismanagement and improper actions" were to blame.

It is the second disaster to strike Mecca in two weeks, after a crane collapsed at the Grand Mosque, killing 109 people.

UNQUOTE

Right.

As we now know from the revelations of the past 24 hours:

1. The King actually personally owns and runs this site 

2. He is therefore legally responsible for what happens on his property, in the same way you and I would be if there was a hazard on our property

3. It has now emerged, quite clearly, that the primary reason for this unmitigated disaster is that two roads and two entrances to the central square were closed off at the King's request - causing massive bottlenecks which triggered the stampede which led to so many deaths
 
4. In addition, the King has put out statements that (a) 'it was the pilgrims' own fault for ignoring stewards' instructions and (b) 'African pilgrims caused the problems' - naked racism

5. A spokesman for the King has also said that 'what happened is God's will'  

6.  The reason that the two roads and entrances were closed off was because the King in his nearby palace was entertaining assorted princes from his extended family and other dignitaries who wanted to have their own 'special time' for throwing pebbles at the three stone pillars

7. The King is therefore personally responsible for this disaster (a) as he owns the place and (b) because his closing off of these two roads caused the disasters

8. He is ordering an enquiry which should basically be holding his own personal actions and failures. 

9. In a properly-run country, he would be impeached, or prosecuted for gross manslaughter for negligence, and severely punished.

+++++++++

Meanwhile President Vladimir Putin has spoken in response to Muslim demands in Russia for more rights and for them to be able to practise shari'ah law in Russia:


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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by BlueBag on 25.09.15 10:42

. A spokesman for the King has also said that 'what happened is God's will'  

The old chestnut gets trotted out again.

Anyway... how dare anyone question a King.

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by Richard IV on 25.09.15 12:06

@Tony Bennett wrote:This BBC News report about the mass deaths at the Hajj must surely break the world record for absolutely stunnimg, breathtaking, hypocrisy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34354651

QUOTE

Saudi Arabia's King Salman has ordered a safety review for the Hajj pilgrimage after at least 717 people died in a stampede near the holy city of Mecca.

Another 863 people were injured in the incident at Mina, which occurred as two million pilgrims were taking part in the Hajj's last major rite.

It is the deadliest incident to occur during the pilgrimage in 25 years.

The king said there was a need "to improve the level of organisation and management of movement" of pilgrims.

A commission to investigate the crush has been formed by the Saudi government.

The Saudi health minister, Khaled al-Falih, said the crush occurred because many pilgrims moved "without respecting the timetables" established by authorities.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran, which lost at least 95 of its citizens in the crush, said the Saudi government "must accept the huge responsibility for this catastrophe".

He added that "mismanagement and improper actions" were to blame.

It is the second disaster to strike Mecca in two weeks, after a crane collapsed at the Grand Mosque, killing 109 people.

UNQUOTE

Right.

As we now know from the revelations of the past 24 hours:

1. The King actually personally owns and runs this site 

2. He is therefore legally responsible for what happens on his property, in the same way you and I would be if there was a hazard on our property

3. It has now emerged, quite clearly, that the primary reason for this unmitigated disaster is that two roads and two entrances to the central square were closed off at the King's request - causing massive bottlenecks which triggered the stampede which led to so many deaths
 
4. In addition, the King has put out statements that (a) 'it was the pilgrims' own fault for ignoring stewards' instructions and (b) 'African pilgrims caused the problems' - naked racism

5. A spokesman for the King has also said that 'what happened is God's will'  

6.  The reason that the two roads and entrances were closed off was because the King in his nearby palace was entertaining assorted princes from his extended family and other dignitaries who wanted to have their own 'special time' for throwing pebbles at the three stone pillars

7. The King is therefore personally responsible for this disaster (a) as he owns the place and (b) because his closing off of these two roads caused the disasters

8. He is ordering an enquiry which should basically be holding his own personal actions and failures. 

9. In a properly-run country, he would be impeached, or prosecuted for gross manslaughter for negligence, and severely punished.

+++++++++

Meanwhile President Vladimir Putin has spoken in response to Muslim demands in Russia for more rights and for them to be able to practise shari'ah law in Russia:


Great post.

As regards Putin, good on him, but IMO it`s too late for UK.  Islamists and their places of worship have been creeping gradually into our society and `up` in our society, so they are already woven in.

I believe most mosques and moslem schools are funded in this country by Saudi Arabia.  Our Royal Family and government are thick with the Saudis who follow the Wahabi islamic teaching which, I believe, interprets the Koran in the most negative and violent way.

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by BlueBag on 25.09.15 12:10

In thick.















etc...

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by Richard IV on 25.09.15 15:16

Only last week, King Salman offered Germany the money for 200 mosques to be built in order to cater for the refugees spiritual needs.  How generous of him  nah

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242354/Saudi-offer-build-200-mosques-Germany-Syrian-migrants-slammed-cynical-Kingdom-not-offered-refugees-themselves.html

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Muslims' answer to every problem. Kill someone.

Post by PeterMac on 25.09.15 15:25

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/25/saudi-arabia-hajj-stampede-mecca-safety

Saudi Arabia under pressure to improve safety at Mecca after fatal hajj crush
Iranian protesters take to Tehran streets chanting ‘death to Al Saud’ as Saudi king orders investigation into crush that left more than 700 pilgrims dead

Thousands of Iranian worshippers have marched in Tehran to protest at Saudi Arabia’s handling of the hajj pilgrimage, adding to growing pressure on the kingdom from within the Islamic world in the wake of death of at least 717 people in a crush outside Mecca.
The Iranian demonstrators carried black banners and chanted “death to Al Saud family” as questions grew about the competence of the Saudi rulers’ handling of the event, which has been marred by a string of tragedies.

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by Tony Bennett on 25.09.15 16:33

@PeterMac wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/25/saudi-arabia-hajj-stampede-mecca-safety

Saudi Arabia under pressure to improve safety at Mecca after fatal hajj crush
Iranian protesters take to Tehran streets chanting ‘death to Al Saud’...
In July and August there were several leading articles in major financial journals suggesting that Saudi Arabia could go bankrupt before even Greece does.

Here's one of them from Forbes magazine:

 http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/08/06/the-looming-bankruptcy-of-saudi-arabia/

The relatives of the 717-plus who died and the 900-plus who were injured had better get their compensation claims into King Saud at the double



ETA:

Just read this on the latest BBC News report on the tragedy:

QUOTE>>>   "The Saudis have spent billions on improving transport and other infrastructure since the last major Hajj incident nine years ago. The millions of pilgrims who come each year also bring billions of dollars to the Saudi economy."

So...

..a scam??

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by BlueBag on 25.09.15 21:57

@Tony Bennett wrote:


So...

..a scam??
All religion is.

But I'm sure you'd disagree Tony.

But you would agree that 99% of religions different to yours are false.

Anyone who who says God speaks to them but.. of course... you can't hear them.. is scamming.

Muhammed
Joseph Smith
Charles T Russel
Ellen G White
...
Jesus (actually this is complicated because Constantine suppressed all Christian beliefs except the official Roman Church -  see Agnostic Gospels).

I was a Catholic and I know my church history.

The increasing knowing became the reason for calling BS.

I don't say this lightly, I was a hard-liner for 30 years at least.

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by aiyoyo on 25.09.15 23:14

@BlueBag wrote:A few years ago the same thing happened.

I remember the excuse trotted out then, that it was their time and they would have died wherever they were in the world at that moment.

Another crazy sect that believes in predestiny.

Really pathetic excuse. 
Every calamity, even men caused ones they attribute them to God's will. 
They have no free will and they never questioned why their God is being selective....

Every year Hajj incurs casualties, just not in massive scale, hence not making front page headlines worldwide unlike this one.  Organizing logistics for 3 million annual pilgrims in a confined space for a short few days is pure nightmare.  It's an inevitable accident waiting to happen irrespective of the amount of meticulous and systematic efforts put in for safety measures prevention planning. 

They never learned from their mistakes and never think of changing rules to keep relevance to times...

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Re: AT LEAST 717 (NEWLY UPDATED FIGURE at 2.15pm) people trampled to death in annual Muslim Hajj pilgrimage (24 Sep 2015)

Post by aiyoyo on 25.09.15 23:19

@BlueBag wrote:All religion is.

.....a scam.  Quite right.

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