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Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by Nina on 19.09.15 19:00

Ladyinred wrote:I'm hoping he's going to represent and speak for ordinary working people while he's leader of the Labour party, unlike his predecessors from central casting.
clapping yes roses

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by Richard IV on 19.09.15 20:46

@jozi wrote:
@Richard IV wrote:It`s funny how the MSM forget all the crimes committed by the hardline righties.

They`re just doing their usual stunt of scrapping the barrel to find bits of dirt on the man, even trying to tarnish him by saying he had an affair with Diane Abbott, which was common knowledge anyway.  Ah well, I`m sure Jeremy Corbyn is expecting this sort of stuff, but luckily doesn`t care.
Well god help us Brits if this is the chosen one that Labourites think is the best thing since sliced bread !!! We are going to look right DH's if he is at the helm......come back Nigel ,get us out a here !!!

Good job we`re living in a country where we can all express our differing views - how boring if we all thought the same  smilie.

Yes, I`d agree about Nigel  roses

You must admit Jez is a good looking geezer - can he have a few points for that ? Didn`t he look gorgeous in his cafe au lait coloured jacket with amber tie.  Ten out of ten to him IMO for seemingly possessing only one posh jacket.  Frivolity aside, I like his attitude and most of his politics.

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Jeremy Corbyn's deputy, John McDonnell

Post by Guest on 19.09.15 21:19

John McDonnell accuses George Osborne of pursuing ‘immoral’ policies
Shadow chancellor appointed by Jeremy Corbyn says he is no deficit denier and that fiscal responsibility would be at the heart of his policies




Shadow chancellor John McDonnell spoke out in his first newspaper interview since his controversial appointment. Photograph: Andy Hall
Toby Helm, Andrew Rawnsley and Daniel Boffey
Saturday 19 September 2015 20.12 BST Last modified on Saturday 19 September 2015 20.57 BST

The new shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, has torn into George Osborne for pursuing “immoral” policies that hurt the poorest in society as he spelled out a radical and sweeping leftwing agenda for the UK economy.
In his first newspaper interview since his controversial appointment by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, the MP for Hayes and Harlington told the Observer he and Corbyn will not impose their own ideas on the party but will adopt a “big tent” approach to policymaking.
He says that the leadership duo – who have endured a torrid first week in charge – want all MPs and party members to be involved in a huge democratic discussion on all policy areas from renationalisation of key industries to tax policy and the role of the Bank of England.
McDonnell says he and Corbyn are still “desperate” to lure big names who have refused to serve, including former shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna, back into the fold so they can contribute to the debate.
But in an hour-long interview, in which he names Karl Marx’s Das Capital as a key influence on his thinking, he makes clear that he wants an overhaul of the way government works, and a leftwing programme of renationalisation that will take the railways and Royal Mail back under public ownership as soon as possible – burying the legacy of New Labour.
McDonnell rejects suggestions that he is a “deficit denier” and is adamant that his programme would have fiscal responsibility at its heart.
“No one can win an election unless they can demonstrate economic competence. The big issue that has been put to us is that we are deficit deniers. No we’re not.
“There is a deficit and we are going to sort it out and we’re not going to do it on the backs of the poor and we’re not going to do it on the backs of middle or low earners.”
But, in terms that will alarm some in his party, he describes Obsorne’s plan to run a budget surplus, and to legislate to do so, as “barmy” and contrary to every sensible economic theory. “If you have an economic surplus you are taking it out of the productive economy. So it’s just barmy.”
McDonnell, known for his outspoken views, says he is trying to learn the art of diplomacy from the more placid Corbyn, who on Saturday pulled out of a speech to the Stop the War coalition saying he was preparing for next week’s Labour conference.
“Jeremy is talking me through the Corbyn school of diplomacy at the moment,” McDonnell says. But asked if he would describe Osborne as immoral he said: “I think some of the policies they are pursuing are immoral.I think the consequences of them are immoral.”
Referring to cuts in tax credits and changes to universal credit announced in the chancellor’s post-election budget, which the Institute for Fiscal Studies said would hit the incomes of millions of hard-working families, he said: “I don’t think that is moral because it means a lot of people will be choosing whether their kids have a winter coat this year.”
He reveals that he intends to conduct a review of the most important government institutions and their roles, including the Bank of England and the Treasury. He said he backs giving Bank of England a new set of mandates, in addition to the target of controlling inflation.
“I want to retain its independence but its mandate is 18 years old now, and it was inflation, and they are not meeting that target anyway. There are a number of targets you could look at: jobs, prosperity overall, long term investment policy and planning.” He also said it there could be targets for poverty and inequality.
He supports curbing the powers of the Treasury by replacing the current Department for Business, Innovation and Skills with a new department for economic development.
“It is almost like [Harold] Wilson tried to do. He tried to break the power of the Treasury.” In addition he backs the idea of Labour drawing up its own alternative budget every year while in opposition and submitting it for scrutiny to the independent Office for Budgetary Responsibility.
• An Opinium/Observer poll shows that the wave of “Corbynmania” which swept him to the leadership has not spread across the wider voting public. The Conservatives (on 37%) remain five points ahead of Labour (32%) with Ukip on 14% and the Lib Dems on 6%. When voters were asked who they would choose to be prime minister 41% chose David Cameron and 22% Corbyn.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by BlueBag on 20.09.15 8:36

@jozi wrote:
@Richard IV wrote:It`s funny how the MSM forget all the crimes committed by the hardline righties.

They`re just doing their usual stunt of scrapping the barrel to find bits of dirt on the man, even trying to tarnish him by saying he had an affair with Diane Abbott, which was common knowledge anyway.  Ah well, I`m sure Jeremy Corbyn is expecting this sort of stuff, but luckily doesn`t care.
Well god help us Brits if this is the chosen one that Labourites think is the best thing since sliced bread !!! We are going to look right DH's if he is at the helm......come back Nigel ,get us out a here !!!
Why are you so worried about him?

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by Angelique on 20.09.15 9:13

@Nina wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:I'm hoping he's going to represent and speak for ordinary working people while he's leader of the Labour party, unlike his predecessors from central casting.
clapping yes roses

Where there is life, there is hope.

But I am of the opinion that, yes, in fact I think in time he will morph into one of the members of "the cast".

He will have no choice. Become like them or go.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by Guest on 20.09.15 9:31

Yes, he will have to make compromises, like most politicians, and his will be under intense scrutiny.  I don't believe he will change British politics or eliminate class divisions, they are both too deeply entrenched in our way of life, but I am happy that what and who he represents are on the front pages.  He is good for democracy, IMO.

Re. his appearance - I think he will be tidied up over the next few weeks, it's too much of a distraction.  I think his advisors will want to avoid another Cenotaph.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by PeterMac on 20.09.15 11:15


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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by aquila on 20.09.15 15:49

@Angelique wrote:
@Nina wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:I'm hoping he's going to represent and speak for ordinary working people while he's leader of the Labour party, unlike his predecessors from central casting.
clapping yes roses

Where there is life, there is hope.

But I am of the opinion that, yes, in fact I think in time he will morph into one of the members of "the cast".

He will have no choice. Become like them or go.
I'm hoping for a recognisable Socialist Party with clear socialist values - a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate. Corbyn has around four years in which to achieve this and I sincerely hope he does it.

I hope he tackles issues which affect the working classes. I hope he campaigns for compulsory apprenticeships for young people with meaningful city & guilds standard qualifications - and I hope he makes private industry contribute heavily towards it. I hope there is a return to Polytechnic and Grammar education, although I'm not sure where the socialist party stand on this. I hope he rattles a big sabre at large corporations avoiding tax and buying cheap labour on zero hours contracts. In fact, if he does nothing more than to squash zero hours contracts in the next four years he'll be my hero forever and I'll vote Labour. The icing on the cake of course would be for Corbyn to back leaving the EU - once again, I'm not sure where Labour stand on this.

I hope Corbyn can make a big dent in abolishing the bedroom tax and the terrible ATOS fitness for work disgrace.

I hope Corbyn tackles meaningful domestic issues.

Having been a Tory voter since I was old enough to vote, I voted UKIP at the last election as my conscience wouldn't allow me to do anything else. There was no Labour Party/Liberal Party worth my vote - it was a tug-of-war with everyone on the same end of the rope.

Give the man a chance is what I say. He can't do any real harm but he might do a great deal of good.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by Guest on 20.09.15 16:16


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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by Richard IV on 20.09.15 18:57

Ladyinred wrote:@Aquila


  agree
So do I

As far as the EU goes I believe he personally wants out, but as a man who goes by the wishes of the Group as a whole, has stated they have no plans to opt out, yet.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by PeterMac on 20.09.15 21:51

@aquila wrote:
I'm hoping for a recognisable Socialist Party with clear socialist values - a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate. Corbyn has around four years in which to achieve this and I sincerely hope he does it.
I hope he tackles issues which affect the working classes. I hope he campaigns for compulsory apprenticeships for young people with meaningful city & guilds standard qualifications - and I hope he makes private industry contribute heavily towards it. I hope there is a return to Polytechnic and Grammar education, although I'm not sure where the socialist party stand on this. I hope he rattles a big sabre at large corporations avoiding tax and buying cheap labour on zero hours contracts. In fact, if he does nothing more than to squash zero hours contracts in the next four years he'll be my hero forever and I'll vote Labour. The icing on the cake of course would be for Corbyn to back leaving the EU - once again, I'm not sure where Labour stand on this.
I hope Corbyn can make a big dent in abolishing the bedroom tax and the terrible ATOS fitness for work disgrace.
I hope Corbyn tackles meaningful domestic issues.
Give the man a chance is what I say. He can't do any real harm but he might do a great deal of good.

I try to keep away for the Party Political threads, but this needs some response.
I'm hoping for a recognisable Socialist Party with clear socialist values - a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate.   That is what the entire Labour Party are now frightened of. Socialism has been tried in various places acrss the world and has failed, crashed, and burned. Very often at the cost of millions of humans lives.  It is finished as an ideology.  It does not, and cannot, work.   That is why they are already talking about mass defections to an new SDP, and then SDLP, and then Liberal-Democrat party. However, to the extent that you say a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate., then yes.  So that it can be rejected overwhelmingly in a proper election.

I hope he campaigns for compulsory apprenticeships for young people with meaningful city & guilds standard qualifications . . . " when you say "Compulsory . . do you mean that young people who refuse to take them, or are simply too stupid, are denied BENEFITS . . . !    How else do you define Compulsory ?

I hope there is a return to Polytechnic and Grammar education, although I'm not sure where the socialist party stand on this.   Socialists are determined to destroy all Grammar Schools, and have mostly succeeded. Very few remain.  They are also determined to destroy all forms of private education )(even though, of course, they send their own children to Grammar Schools,(Abbott)  or pretend not to but have private tutors from the best schools (Westminster) bussed in (Blairs)  
The conversion ( or re-branding) of Polytechnics and Technical colleges into Poly-versities was Labour policy

In fact, if he does nothing more than to squash zero hours contracts in the next four years he'll be my hero forever    Many firms will then simply cut their work force accordingly.  They may then start to use  "Agency staff".  No change, but even less money

The icing on the cake of course would be for Corbyn to back leaving the EU - once again, I'm not sure where Labour stand on this.  
Labour’s position on Europe is clear and principled: we strongly believe Britain’s future lies at the heart of a reformed EU.
 http://www.yourbritain.org.uk/uploads/editor/files/LABOUR_PARTY_euro_manifesto.pdf

He can't do any real harm but he might do a great deal of good.  He can't do any real harm to the Country, since he is in a tiny minority, unable to put forward any sensible views, and is under constant threat from his own people, but he may do to the PLP.  He might do a great deal of good - to the Country, by splitting the Labour party into Greedy Bollinger Bolsheviks, and Hampstead Champagne Socialists, and lunatic Marxists . . . and leaving the thinking few to form another party (YET another party !) whilst more careful politicians take the longer view and try to sort out the mess left by Blair and Brown, Mandleson and Prescott, Miliband Jnr, Miliband Snr, and all the rest.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by Richard IV on 20.09.15 22:40

.... and don`t forget - God save the Queen with all the verses.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by aquila on 21.09.15 10:21

@PeterMac wrote:
@aquila wrote:
I'm hoping for a recognisable Socialist Party with clear socialist values - a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate. Corbyn has around four years in which to achieve this and I sincerely hope he does it.
I hope he tackles issues which affect the working classes. I hope he campaigns for compulsory apprenticeships for young people with meaningful city & guilds standard qualifications - and I hope he makes private industry contribute heavily towards it. I hope there is a return to Polytechnic and Grammar education, although I'm not sure where the socialist party stand on this. I hope he rattles a big sabre at large corporations avoiding tax and buying cheap labour on zero hours contracts. In fact, if he does nothing more than to squash zero hours contracts in the next four years he'll be my hero forever and I'll vote Labour. The icing on the cake of course would be for Corbyn to back leaving the EU - once again, I'm not sure where Labour stand on this.
I hope Corbyn can make a big dent in abolishing the bedroom tax and the terrible ATOS fitness for work disgrace.
I hope Corbyn tackles meaningful domestic issues.
Give the man a chance is what I say. He can't do any real harm but he might do a great deal of good.

I try to keep away for the Party Political threads, but this needs some response.
I'm hoping for a recognisable Socialist Party with clear socialist values - a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate.   That is what the entire Labour Party are now frightened of. Socialism has been tried in various places acrss the world and has failed, crashed, and burned.  Very often at the cost of millions of humans lives.  It is finished as an ideology.  It does not, and cannot, work.   That is why they are already talking about mass defections to an new SDP, and then SDLP, and then Liberal-Democrat party. However, to the extent that you say a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate., then yes.  So that it can be rejected overwhelmingly in a proper election.

I hope he campaigns for compulsory apprenticeships for young people with meaningful city & guilds standard qualifications . . . " when you say "Compulsory . . do you mean that young people who refuse to take them, or are simply too stupid, are denied BENEFITS . . . !    How else do you define Compulsory ?

I hope there is a return to Polytechnic and Grammar education, although I'm not sure where the socialist party stand on this.   Socialists are determined to destroy all Grammar Schools, and have mostly succeeded. Very few remain.  They are also determined to destroy all forms of private education )(even though, of course, they send their own children to Grammar Schools,(Abbott)  or pretend not to but have private tutors from the best schools (Westminster)  bussed in (Blairs)  
The conversion ( or re-branding) of Polytechnics and Technical colleges into Poly-versities was Labour policy

In fact, if he does nothing more than to squash zero hours contracts in the next four years he'll be my hero forever    Many firms will then simply cut their work force accordingly.  They may then start to use  "Agency staff".  No change, but even less money

The icing on the cake of course would be for Corbyn to back leaving the EU - once again, I'm not sure where Labour stand on this.  
Labour’s position on Europe is clear and principled: we strongly believe Britain’s future lies at the heart of a reformed EU.
 http://www.yourbritain.org.uk/uploads/editor/files/LABOUR_PARTY_euro_manifesto.pdf

He can't do any real harm but he might do a great deal of good.  He can't do any real harm to the Country, since he is in a tiny minority, unable to put forward any sensible views, and is under constant threat from his own people, but he may do to the PLP.  He might do a great deal of good - to the Country, by splitting the Labour party into Greedy Bollinger Bolsheviks, and Hampstead Champagne Socialists, and lunatic Marxists . . . and leaving the thinking few to form another party (YET another party !) whilst more careful politicians take the longer view and try to sort out the mess left by Blair and Brown, Mandleson and Prescott, Miliband Jnr, Miliband Snr, and all the rest.
Brilliant points there PeterMac and all very true. I do think though that Corbyn will temper his ideology otherwise he's not going to have much left (excuse the pun) to work with. I never want to see Trade Unions with inordinate power ever again. I never want to see the likes of Red Robbo, Arthur Scargill (lives in a grace and favour London apartment paid for by Union dues) and Derek Hatton (has rejoined the Labour Party recently) ever again have enough power to crush industries and governments. I feel I'll be slated for that remark.

Re compulsory apprenticeships, I meant large companies should be compelled to offer apprenticeships. Building companies complain of skill shortages. There are plenty of young people who would jump at the chance of a real apprenticeship with real C&G qualifications.

It's all up in the air and up for grabs. Anything can happen in the next four years. I hope the Liberal Party regroup and come out fighting. No more coalition strategies.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by kaz on 21.09.15 14:52

@aquila wrote:
@Angelique wrote:
@Nina wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:I'm hoping he's going to represent and speak for ordinary working people while he's leader of the Labour party, unlike his predecessors from central casting.
clapping yes roses

Where there is life, there is hope.

But I am of the opinion that, yes, in fact I think in time he will morph into one of the members of "the cast".

He will have no choice. Become like them or go.
I'm hoping for a recognisable Socialist Party with clear socialist values - a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate. Corbyn has around four years in which to achieve this and I sincerely hope he does it.

I hope he tackles issues which affect the working classes. I hope he campaigns for compulsory apprenticeships for young people with meaningful city & guilds standard qualifications - and I hope he makes private industry contribute heavily towards it. I hope there is a return to Polytechnic and Grammar education, although I'm not sure where the socialist party stand on this. I hope he rattles a big sabre at large corporations avoiding tax and buying cheap labour on zero hours contracts. In fact, if he does nothing more than to squash zero hours contracts in the next four years he'll be my hero forever and I'll vote Labour. The icing on the cake of course would be for Corbyn to back leaving the EU - once again, I'm not sure where Labour stand on this.

I hope Corbyn can make a big dent in abolishing the bedroom tax and the terrible ATOS fitness for work disgrace.

I hope Corbyn tackles meaningful domestic issues.

Having been a Tory voter since I was old enough to vote, I voted UKIP at the last election as my conscience wouldn't allow me to do anything else. There was no Labour Party/Liberal Party worth my vote - it was a tug-of-war with everyone on the same end of the rope.

Give the man a chance is what I say. He can't do any real harm but he might do a great deal of good.
Wholeheartedly agree.
As for the ''royal'' family: The concept is an anachronism which perpetuates and personifies 'class' division in this country. Do any of the ''royal'' hangers on get well paid jobs because they're talented? Nah! It's who you know when it comes to the top jobs and if you just happen to be related to anybody in the BBC , why the world's your oyster!!

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by sallypelt on 21.09.15 15:09

@aquila wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@aquila wrote:
I'm hoping for a recognisable Socialist Party with clear socialist values - a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate. Corbyn has around four years in which to achieve this and I sincerely hope he does it.
I hope he tackles issues which affect the working classes. I hope he campaigns for compulsory apprenticeships for young people with meaningful city & guilds standard qualifications - and I hope he makes private industry contribute heavily towards it. I hope there is a return to Polytechnic and Grammar education, although I'm not sure where the socialist party stand on this. I hope he rattles a big sabre at large corporations avoiding tax and buying cheap labour on zero hours contracts. In fact, if he does nothing more than to squash zero hours contracts in the next four years he'll be my hero forever and I'll vote Labour. The icing on the cake of course would be for Corbyn to back leaving the EU - once again, I'm not sure where Labour stand on this.
I hope Corbyn can make a big dent in abolishing the bedroom tax and the terrible ATOS fitness for work disgrace.
I hope Corbyn tackles meaningful domestic issues.
Give the man a chance is what I say. He can't do any real harm but he might do a great deal of good.

I try to keep away for the Party Political threads, but this needs some response.
I'm hoping for a recognisable Socialist Party with clear socialist values - a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate.   That is what the entire Labour Party are now frightened of. Socialism has been tried in various places acrss the world and has failed, crashed, and burned.  Very often at the cost of millions of humans lives.  It is finished as an ideology.  It does not, and cannot, work.   That is why they are already talking about mass defections to an new SDP, and then SDLP, and then Liberal-Democrat party. However, to the extent that you say a party that can offer a real choice to the electorate., then yes.  So that it can be rejected overwhelmingly in a proper election.

I hope he campaigns for compulsory apprenticeships for young people with meaningful city & guilds standard qualifications . . . " when you say "Compulsory . . do you mean that young people who refuse to take them, or are simply too stupid, are denied BENEFITS . . . !    How else do you define Compulsory ?

I hope there is a return to Polytechnic and Grammar education, although I'm not sure where the socialist party stand on this.   Socialists are determined to destroy all Grammar Schools, and have mostly succeeded. Very few remain.  They are also determined to destroy all forms of private education )(even though, of course, they send their own children to Grammar Schools,(Abbott)  or pretend not to but have private tutors from the best schools (Westminster)  bussed in (Blairs)  
The conversion ( or re-branding) of Polytechnics and Technical colleges into Poly-versities was Labour policy

In fact, if he does nothing more than to squash zero hours contracts in the next four years he'll be my hero forever    Many firms will then simply cut their work force accordingly.  They may then start to use  "Agency staff".  No change, but even less money

The icing on the cake of course would be for Corbyn to back leaving the EU - once again, I'm not sure where Labour stand on this.  
Labour’s position on Europe is clear and principled: we strongly believe Britain’s future lies at the heart of a reformed EU.
 http://www.yourbritain.org.uk/uploads/editor/files/LABOUR_PARTY_euro_manifesto.pdf

He can't do any real harm but he might do a great deal of good.  He can't do any real harm to the Country, since he is in a tiny minority, unable to put forward any sensible views, and is under constant threat from his own people, but he may do to the PLP.  He might do a great deal of good - to the Country, by splitting the Labour party into Greedy Bollinger Bolsheviks, and Hampstead Champagne Socialists, and lunatic Marxists . . . and leaving the thinking few to form another party (YET another party !) whilst more careful politicians take the longer view and try to sort out the mess left by Blair and Brown, Mandleson and Prescott, Miliband Jnr, Miliband Snr, and all the rest.
Brilliant points there PeterMac and all very true. I do think though that Corbyn will temper his ideology otherwise he's not going to have much left (excuse the pun) to work with. I never want to see Trade Unions with inordinate power ever again. I never want to see the likes of Red Robbo, Arthur Scargill (lives in a grace and favour London apartment paid for by Union dues) and Derek Hatton (has rejoined the Labour Party recently) ever again have enough power to crush industries and governments. I feel I'll be slated for that remark.

Re compulsory apprenticeships, I meant large companies should be compelled to offer apprenticeships. Building companies complain of skill shortages. There are plenty of young people who would jump at the chance of a real apprenticeship with real C&G qualifications.

It's all up in the air and up for grabs. Anything can happen in the next four years. I hope the Liberal Party regroup and come out fighting. No more coalition strategies.
Aquila, I am in total agreement with you. I lived through the "loony left" years, with wildcat strikes every other day. It would have been hilarious if it hadn't been so serious. I saw shop stewards, who had never held power of any kind, in their lives, before, bringing a factor to a standstill just because they could. I can remember workers asking, when told they would be striking that afternoon "whose parrot had died now" or "who has broken a manicured nail". It had gotten that ludicrous.

As for JC, as I have recently posted, I think he's between a rock and a hard place. Those who do not agree with his political views, respect him for his principles. However, if he is to survive as leader of the Labour Party, he will have to do some bending. It's a case of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by BlueBag on 21.09.15 16:27

@PeterMac wrote:Socialism has been tried in various places acrss the world and has failed, crashed, and burned.  Very often at the cost of millions of humans lives.  It is finished as an ideology.  It does not, and cannot, work. 

Yeah... all those dead people in Sweden.

I think you're mistaking totalitarianism and dictatorship for socialism.

Socialism never gets a real chance because the sociopaths who control the money decide not to play whenever someone comes along and wants fairness in the distribution of wealth.

Meanwhile, when you look around the world you can see how capitalism has solved the poverty situation. Oh wait...

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by BlueBag on 21.09.15 16:37

Oh yeah... and it was SOCIALISTS who gave Britain the NHS. Now being deliberately wrecked by capitalists so they can sell it off in slices and make private profit from the suffering of people. 

It was SOCIALISTS who gave us a unified rail system and it was capitalists who broke it up so that private profit could be subsidised by the tax payer. And the standard of service is now ****.

It was SOCIALISTS who gave us a unified energy system and it was capitalists who broke it up so that the loss making bits could be still paid for by the tax payer and the profit making bits could be sold to foreign governments and cronies.

It's capitalists who now want to future proof energy company private profits at the expense of the consumer (today's news).

It's capitalist who LIE about "we're all in it together".

Ra ra for the capitalists.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by PeterMac on 21.09.15 18:01

@BlueBag wrote:Oh yeah... and it was SOCIALISTS who gave Britain the NHS. Now being deliberately wrecked by capitalists so they can sell it off in slices and make private profit from the suffering of people. 
They happened to be in power when the system, which had been conceived and argued about for the previous century, was brought it.
As one commentator said "In his report on social welfare systems Beveridge had little to say about the precise nature or funding of a health service, though seeing one as essential to a satisfactory system of social security"
Which is the root of the problem. It was never thought through, just brought in, and as always it was assumed that there would be future funding, at any level, for anything, forever. If in doubt use the Nations credit card, and future generations can pay. (See PFI for the ghastly reality of what has been done by Labour - and Tories ! to keep the true horror off the balance sheets.

It is strange that Socialists do not accept responsibility for the financial crash - although they were in power when it happened, - but always claim the kudos for the introduction of the NHS, even though the model is and was fatally flawed.

for a decent breakdown of how it happened and a proper explanation of how it was NOT the socialists who suddenly invented it . . .
see http://www.nhshistory.net/shorthistory.htm

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by kaz on 21.09.15 18:38

@BlueBag wrote:Oh yeah... and it was SOCIALISTS who gave Britain the NHS. Now being deliberately wrecked by capitalists so they can sell it off in slices and make private profit from the suffering of people. 

It was SOCIALISTS who gave us a unified rail system and it was capitalists who broke it up so that private profit could be subsidised by the tax payer. And the standard of service is now ****.

It was SOCIALISTS who gave us a unified energy system and it was capitalists who broke it up so that the loss making bits could be still paid for by the tax payer and the profit making bits could be sold to foreign governments and cronies.

It's capitalists who now want to future proof energy company private profits at the expense of the consumer (today's news).

It's capitalist who LIE about "we're all in it together".

Ra ra for the capitalists.
Go Bluebag....go ! Love it when you're on one and you're so right. Capitalism relies on people buying, buying, buying.............. things they neither need nor want but are convinced by the 'middle men' ( advertising industry  ) that they do. Sometimes I wonder if that's one of the reasons for mass  immigration. An even  bigger consumer base for  big business to grow ever richer .

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by BlueBag on 21.09.15 20:35

@PeterMac wrote:


It is strange that Socialists do not accept responsibility for the financial crash - although they were in power when it happened, - but always claim the kudos for the introduction of the NHS, even though the model is and was fatally flawed.
New Labour were NOT socialists.

They were Tory-lite.

Margret Thatcher said one of her greatest achievements was New Labour.


for a decent breakdown of how it happened and a proper explanation of how it was NOT the socialists who suddenly invented it . . .
see http://www.nhshistory.net/shorthistory.htm

Er.. yes it was Socialists who invented the NATIONAL health service.

Bevan in fact.

Read your own link.

All the gas and wishes about local authorities and no action before is irrelevant.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by aquila on 21.09.15 21:39

It was a Tory government who introduced NHS Trusts. Within weeks managers previously employed on NHS payscales were in possession of high end company cars and private sector salaries. A fatty managerial layer swelled out of proportion. The Goddess of all hospitals - The Matron - she who ruled the roost and by golly wards worked, nurses worked, doctors worked and cleanliness was paramount - was done away with and non clinical managers ran riot. Patients were way down the list of priorities. Almost every service was farmed out to private industry - hence the crazy situation where it costs £45 to change a lightbulb. I recall doing advertising/communications work for the launch of the very first NHS Trust. You wouldn't believe the budgets that were available. It was every agency's dream.

It was the Tory government that instigated privatising the Health Service, New Labour carried on with the process.

Just my opinion and I stand to be corrected.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by aiyoyo on 22.09.15 0:03

@BlueBag wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:

Why should a republican and an atheist sing the national anthem?

He has principles.

I wouldn't sing it either.

The Royal family are parasites.

Most of the royal family members are parasites, but the establishment is a money earner for UK.

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by aiyoyo on 22.09.15 0:11

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:Jeremy Corbyn faces being BANNED from meetings over republican views over Queen

http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/605004/Jeremy-Corbyn-republican-banned-meetings-Queen


Shocking !

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by aiyoyo on 22.09.15 0:29

@sallypelt wrote:
Now back to the Royal Family. I have problems with those who think that, in today's society, people should be bowing down to other people. HOWEVER, it's not getting rid of the Royal Family that is of concern to me; it's what will fill the vacuum, and the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

The many silly and outdated protocols required to be observed when meeting and greeting royal family should be re written to keep up with times.  It's funny how technology and everything else has evolved with times but royal protocols are still antiquity.  I agree, the alternative to the Royal establishment is unthinkable.

Imagine President Cameron running his Cabinet from Buckingham Palace...yuck !

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Re: Jez Corbyn - The 'NEW HOPE' for Britain?

Post by BlueBag on 22.09.15 6:55

@aiyoyo wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:

Why should a republican and an atheist sing the national anthem?

He has principles.

I wouldn't sing it either.

The Royal family are parasites.

Most of the royal family members are parasites, but the establishment is a money earner for UK.
That old chestnut.

Imagine if Buckingham Palace and Windsor castle were open for tours.

"This is where Victoria used to blah... this is where Elizabeth used to blah.... this is where Henry is buried blah..."

Westminster Abbey, Tower of London and other places does pretty well as a tourist attraction on it's own.

Paris does OK without a royal family.

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