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The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

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The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.07.10 10:11

In researching material for our response to 'Chinagirl's rebuttal of our leaflet on Goncalo Amaral, I came across a Portuguese news report of the libel trial in Lisbon in January 2010, which quoted Magalhães e Menezes, the Public Ministry Prosecutor who archived the case, telling the court: “The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance. That doesn’t mean it’s the right one”.

This is the official who signed off the 'final report', the one the McCann-believers always like to quote as they attempt to 'bury' the earlier, devastating report of Tavares de Almeida [10 September 2007].

Here he is, on oath in a Lisbon court, saying what he really really thinks, instead of having to cover up what he really thinks in the ton of waffle in which he enveloped his final report!

I confess I'd not come across that before, and it's very striking:

"The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance".

Where has this been reported previously?

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by Bren on 11.07.10 10:19

"The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance".
Yes it is most probably true, what many of us suspect, Madeleine could actually be deceased, but it does not state she is definitely dead and it does not state by whose hand. It just states that it is most likely out of all the theories, but factually it can not rule out other theories.

And that was their problem, they had no body to prove death and they did not have conclusive evidence pointing to the parents. For all any of us know Madeleine could have died in that apartment by the hands of another.

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 11.07.10 10:27



Dead?

Abducted by a paedophile...

...how can they look like this whatever happened to Maddie?

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In one Portuguese newspapr and on Joana Morais' blog...but nowhere else

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.07.10 11:02

Jill, that's exactly my point!

Was this hugely important statement of the man who signed off the final PJ report in July 2007 ever reported in...

The Times?
The Guardian?
The Daily Telegraph?
The Mail?
The Express?
The Sunday Times?
The Observer?
The Sun?
The Mirror?
The Daily Star?
The BBC?
ITV?
SKY NEWS?

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by ufercoffy on 11.07.10 11:03

jkh wrote:

Dead?

Abducted by a paedophile...

...how can they look like this whatever happened to Maddie?

Sorry, but no way could they look like that if Madeleine had been killed by someone else or even abducted by a paedophile.

There was plenty of photo's like this on the 'net where they were smiling and blooming which suggests to me that they concealed her body and believed they were getting away with it.

Which they have for the past 3 years with a little help from their friends. And favours called in, of course.

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by pennylane on 11.07.10 11:24

I still maintain there is no way they would not have woken the twins up immediately if Maddie was taken! Simply no way!!!

Firstly they would need to ascertain they were unharmed ... and then they would want to make some gentle inquiries.....

this could have changed the entire outcome if Maddie was abducted..... but they knew she wasn't .... of that I have not a doubt in my mind!

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by soulthief on 11.07.10 11:57

There is too much pointing at the McCanns for this to be death by someone other than the McCanns.I still want to know and understand about the leaflets handed out that night? They say they didn't come from the reception and something about the paper/ink/printer used not being used in Portugal, so this leads to why did they go on holiday with these leaflets.......you know where this is going but I'm reluctant of getting the wrath of lots of exclamation marks,capital letters and angry smileys.
Throw in Gerrys f*** off I'm not here to enjoy myself and it opens a totally different can of worms and perhaps explains the sky news involvement when most of us would be still running around PDL screaming and banging on doors.The ensuing drama over the next 48 hours was well oiled and regimented, they were totally focused and plans were put in place very quickly, including registering her name and the eye defect logo.

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by ufercoffy on 11.07.10 12:20

And why did they feel the need to wash the curtains that hung at the window where Eddie and Keela alerted?

How many people go on holiday for a week and wash the curtains?

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Amy Tierney

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.07.10 12:27

@soulthief wrote:There is too much pointing at the McCanns for this to be death by someone other than the McCanns. I still want to know and understand about the leaflets handed out that night? They say they didn't come from the reception and something about the paper/ink/printer used not being used in Portugal, so this leads to why did they go on holiday with these leaflets...
This is a very important subject, but I think you have got it wrong in suggesting that the McCanns actually went out with those leaflets...that would bring us back to a premeditated plan to kill Madeleine and I have never gone down that particular avenue.

I am assuming you are referring to the 6" x 4" [15cm x 10cm if you do metric] photos of Madeleine which were conveniently available for the police on the night Madeleine was reported missing. I think they were converted into a sort of leaflet.

Crucial here is the statement of Amy Tierney, by the way thank you to mccannfiles where I located it and to Pamalam and her colleagues for the translation:

Witness Statement

Date : 2008 ' 04 '17
Time. 10.00

Place: Praia da Luz

Name: Amy Tierney


Has made previous statements in May last year.

Given that she does not speak Portuguese, Silvia Batista acted as interpreter.

When questioned and shown the photographs referred to in the previous statements, depicting the English girl, on 'Kodak Xtra Life ' paper, 10 x 15, she said they were printed on her printer, also of Kodak brand.

When on the night of 3rd May, at about 24.00, she was at her desk at the Tapas bar, inside the resort, when at a certain time, one of the friends of the McCann couple, Russell, asked for a USB memory stick reader, in order to print photographs of Madeleine. Immediately the deponent replied that she did not have an USB reader, but that she had a printer with this hardware, which could read from memory sticks.


She went to her room and returned to the Tapas with the printer where she printed out 20 to 30 photographs of the girl, using her own paper, in 10x15 format mentioned previously. The memory stick containing the photos belonged to the McCann couple, and came from their camera.

She thinks that all of this took place at about 24.00 on 3rd May 2007. She presumes that she handed all of the photos to Russell, who distributed some to those present, the rest would be for the police authorities.

As regards her printer, she says that it is no longer in her possession as it is now with her boyfriend in France, she says, after consultation, and in accordance with her previous statements, that is was a 'Kodak', model Easy Share G60, of thermal ink transfer, with continuous tonality.

In annex, is documentation about the printer, describing its technical characteristics, which she recognises as being identical to her printer.

No more is said. She signs the statement together with the interpreter.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now, this printer was never located. If memory serves, it was with her boyfriend in the middle of France and of course, with Portuguese Police resources stretched to the limit as they were by Madeleine's disappearance and its aftermath, it was never checked.

This ties in, as you suggest, 'soulthief', with the convoluted and evasive statements made by I think Dr Russell O'Brien about downloading images on to a computer.

In the 'Good Old Days' of 3As at its peak, there was an intensive discussion about the provenance of these photos/leaflets, as I recall 'Tripz'm whoever he was, was a leading contributor.

Now, in our '60 Reasons' book, we published this as 'Reason 27':


27. Having a ready supply of pre-printed photographs of Madeleine ready for the police as soon as they arrived on the night of 3rd May

Within just two hours of Madeleine’s ‘disappearance’, if not even earlier, the McCanns had a ready supply of posters featuring Madeleine’s face. The McCanns claimed that they had produced them on the spot, using their digital camera, and by getting access to a printing machine at the Ocean Club. But police enquiries at the club did not find any printer that could have produced those particular types of photo posters. This led to the Portuguese police to strongly suspect that they had been pre-prepared earlier in the day, somewhere away from the premises.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That was also published on our website when it went live on 20 October 2008. It led to a hysterical, incandescent reaction from a 3As poster called 'nicked', who eventually revealed herslef, more than once, to be a true McCann-believer who accepted every word of the McCanns and the 'Tapas 9' as gospel.

She was outraged that I did not take the statement of Amy Tierney at face value.

I once wrote a detailed piece on Amy Tierney's statements, saying why they could not be trusted.

But it's lost now.

[Unless anyone still has the 3As database].

P.S. Hat-tip to 'Bren', 'beowulf' and all the admin and Mods at 3As who enabled these fascinating research threads to flourish

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by ufercoffy on 11.07.10 12:36

@Tony Bennett wrote:
I once wrote a detailed piece on Amy Tierney's statements, saying why they could not be trusted.



But it's lost now.



[Unless anyone still has the 3As database].



P.S. Hat-tip to 'Bren', 'beowulf' and all the admin and Mods at 3As who enabled these fascinating research threads to flourish

Is this it?

1. Kate McCann goes to Apartment 5A, some time before 10.00pm.

2. We know from one witness that Kate McCann is seen talking to another female on the balcony some time before 10.00pm. This is most likely to be Jane Tanner.

I suggest the scream takes place immediately before Kate McCann walks or rushes down to the Tapas bar.

Kate McCann then goes to the Tapas bar leaving Jane Tanner minding the twins.

So we have this possible sequence of people entering Apartment 5A:

1. Jane Tanner. At the apartment when the scream occurs and as Kate McCann raises the alarm. She moves out of 5A as Gerry and Kate return to the apartment.

2 & 3. Kate and Gerry McCann arrive first. They were there with ‘a female friend’ [I suggest Fiona Payne] when Amy Tierney arrived. Gerry McCann closed the shutters.

4 & 5. David and Fiona Payne. David Payne “didn’t actually enter too much into the room but I walked to the edge and you know there was, you know the twins were in their cots”- but Fiona says: “I think he was just mainly in the living room trying to put together what they should all be doing really, he was talking more to Gerry”. Fiona was there ‘with Kate and Gerry’ but ‘not immediately’. Fiona after entering the apartment was then with Kate in or near the apartment almost continuously for hours, until eventually they moved up to 5H.

6 & 7. Matthew Oldfield and Rachael Mampilly. Matthew Oldfield appears not to have gone sirect to the apartment in the first few minutes. Oldfield says: “If you ask me…I’m almost a hundred percent sure we didn’t go to the apartment” but later said: “I think we, at one stage, on one of the return visits, I did go into the apartment, just as far perhaps as the, erm, as the kitchen, and I could see them sat on the sofa, but they were in with the Police…that’s the only time I went back into the apartment”. Rachael Mampilly didn’t see the twins. Presumably they had been moved by the time she got there.

8. Dianne Webster. She stayed behind at the table for a few minutes and arrived some minutes later. She found Kate ‘in a state of shock’. Webster opened and closed shutters.

9. Russell O’Brien didn’t enter the apartment straightaway but immediately started searching. He went to the apartment later after the PJ arrived, there were PJ and GNR officers there when he arrived and others. Russell O’Brien wrote out the two timelines.

10. Amy Tierney was there. She saw the open shutters and windows, looked in the bedroom and the wardrobe (though Kate said she closed the window before dashing back to the Tapas bar.

11. Charlotte Pennington ‘sort of walked in’ and saw lots of people in the apartment but later said she searched only the patio area and didn’t enter the apartment.

12. Emma from Mark Warners came in.

13. Silvia Batista, Client Care Manageress from Mark Warners, came in. She says both shutters and windows were closed.

14, 15 & 16. GNR Officers - 3?

17 & 18. PJ Officers - 2 (’bald head’ and ‘baby face’ see Russell O’Brien statement)


If not then it may be on one of these google searches

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=Amy+Tierney%27s+statements+3+arguidos&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=63c9b9518e8c42b

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Oh dear!

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.07.10 13:00


Hah!

At the bottom of the page of these links, this came up:

Keeping A Check On Bennetts Libellous Posts....Tony Bennett Loves ...10 Jan 2010 ... Amy Tierney was there. She saw the open shutters and windows, ...... IT JUST SHOWS ABOUT AMY FITZPATRICK · Oh Dear The Ex 3 Arguidos Admin ...
brenryanandco.blogspot.com/2010_01_10_archive.html -

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by aiyoyo on 11.07.10 13:07

jkh wrote:

Dead?

Abducted by a paedophile...

...how can they look like this whatever happened to Maddie?

That photo demonstrates she couldnt possibly died by another hand - how could they be so happy if that was the case.

The only explanation could be they thought they'd pulled it ie people believed their abduction story.

Since they became suspect, people dont witness that kind of 64 megawatt smile on their faces again.

Their pre and post arguidoes photos tell a story.

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Creating a new thread on Amy Tierney and the mystery of the 6" x 4" photos

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.07.10 13:13

@ufercoffy wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
I once wrote a detailed piece on Amy Tierney's statements, saying why they could not be trusted. But it's lost now. [Unless anyone still has the 3As database].

Is this it?

1. Kate McCann goes to Apartment 5A, some time before 10.00pm...

2. We know from one witness that Kate McCann is seen talking to another female on the balcony some time before 10.00pm. This is most likely to be Jane Tanner.

I suggest the scream takes place immediately before Kate McCann walks or rushes down to the Tapas bar.

Kate McCann then goes to the Tapas bar leaving Jane Tanner minding the twins.

So we have this possible sequence of people entering Apartment 5A:

10. Amy Tierney was there. She saw the open shutters and windows, looked in the bedroom and the wardrobe (though Kate said she closed the window before dashing back to the Tapas bar).
Thanks for that, 'ufercoffy', but that wasn't what I was thinking.

That in fact was a contribution I made to a thread on 'Maddie Case Files' as 'freudian slip' shortly before I was denied access to that discussion forum. The discussion was about how many people trampled across the apartment before the PJ ever got there.

I have however located a 60-page document which has saved the very best of that 3As discussion - probably one of the best research threads ever. Though highly technical in places.

I will open a new thread for this and simply reproduce a key chunk of that research thread on there.

Thanks again

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by aiyoyo on 11.07.10 13:18

@Tony Bennett wrote:In researching material for our response to 'Chinagirl's rebuttal of our leaflet on Goncalo Amaral, I came across a Portuguese news report of the libel trial in Lisbon in January 2010, which quoted Magalhães e Menezes, the Public Ministry Prosecutor who archived the case, telling the court: “The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance. That doesn’t mean it’s the right one”.

This is the official who signed off the 'final report', the one the McCann-believers always like to quote as they attempt to 'bury' the earlier, devastating report of Tavares de Almeida [10 September 2007].

Here he is, on oath in a Lisbon court, saying what he really really thinks, instead of having to cover up what he really thinks in the ton of waffle in which he enveloped his final report!

I confess I'd not come across that before, and it's very striking:

"The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance".

Where has this been reported previously?

Actually IIRC that was reported in the press when he archived the case back in 2007.
It was heavily discussed on the then 3A by Stinky Sardine and some other posters who seemed to have some legal background.

Posters at 3as were perplexed by that statement and debated then whether Magalhães e Menezes decision to archive was politically influenced.

IF people can remember date of archive then press report in PT at that time will reveal that.

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by ufercoffy on 11.07.10 13:23

Stinky Sardine

The 3as certainly had some brilliant usernames...how I miss the good old days of the 3as so much information lost, it's very sad.

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by aiyoyo on 11.07.10 13:26

@ufercoffy wrote:And why did they feel the need to wash the curtains that hung at the window where Eddie and Keela alerted?

How many people go on holiday for a week and wash the curtains?

Was that forum myth or was it the released files?

I have always thought that if they'd washed those curtains its hugh sign of hiding something.

NO one sane wash curtains on holiday.

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by Guest on 11.07.10 13:27

@aiyoyo wrote:
@ufercoffy wrote:And why did they feel the need to wash the curtains that hung at the window where Eddie and Keela alerted?

How many people go on holiday for a week and wash the curtains?

Was that forum myth or was it the released files?

I have always thought that if they'd washed those curtains its hugh sign of hiding something.

NO one sane wash curtains on holiday.


I too thought this was a forum myth? Has anyone got any info from files or articles on this?

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 11.07.10 13:30

Blood on the curtains

Later at the Ocean Club, the use of the dogs ended up triggering a turnaround in the investigation.

As Sol could discover, the dogs detected cadaver odour behind a couch in the apartment’s living room, close to a window that leads to the resort’s back area.

This window had curtains that were removed and analysed by police, and a small blood sample was detected. Both the curtains and the wall where it was located at, had been washed.

If the information that the Irish citizen gave to Sol three months ago is confirmed, the child was wearing pink pyjamas, and Smith noticed no blood stains. Whatever happened to Maddie, didn’t provoke a large bloodshed.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by soulthief on 11.07.10 13:32

wow, this gets worse and worse, never knew the curtains were washed all evidence is mind blowing

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Magalhães e Menezes - 21 July 2008 AND January 2010

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.07.10 13:34

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:In researching material for our response to 'Chinagirl's rebuttal of our leaflet on Goncalo Amaral, I came across a Portuguese news report of the libel trial in Lisbon in January 2010, which quoted Magalhães e Menezes, the Public Ministry Prosecutor who archived the case, telling the court: “The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance. That doesn’t mean it’s the right one”.

Actually IIRC that was reported in the press when he archived the case back in 2007.
It was heavily discussed on the then 3A by Stinky Sardine and some other posters...
The final PJ report and the comments of Magalhães e Menezes were in July 2008.

When you say 'reported in the press', aiyoyo, remember that Magalhães e Menezes signed off his report in July 2008 but this quote of his is much nore recent - from the libel trial in Lisbon in January this year.

My point is that no British press has reported on the comments Magalhães e Menezes made this year.

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Source problem

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.07.10 13:36

jkh wrote:Blood on the curtains

Later at the Ocean Club, the use of the dogs ended up triggering a turnaround in the investigation.

As Sol could discover, the dogs detected cadaver odour behind a couch in the apartment’s living room, close to a window that leads to the resort’s back area.

This window had curtains that were removed and analysed by police, and a small blood sample was detected. Both the curtains and the wall where it was located at, had been washed.

If the information that the Irish citizen gave to Sol three months ago is confirmed, the child was wearing pink pyjamas, and Smith noticed no blood stains. Whatever happened to Maddie, didn’t provoke a large bloodshed.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html
So the source is Sol, not anything in the police files?

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by Guest on 11.07.10 13:50

@Tony Bennett wrote:
jkh wrote:Blood on the curtains

Later at the Ocean Club, the use of the dogs ended up triggering a turnaround in the investigation.

As Sol could discover, the dogs detected cadaver odour behind a couch in the apartment’s living room, close to a window that leads to the resort’s back area.

This window had curtains that were removed and analysed by police, and a small blood sample was detected. Both the curtains and the wall where it was located at, had been washed.

If the information that the Irish citizen gave to Sol three months ago is confirmed, the child was wearing pink pyjamas, and Smith noticed no blood stains. Whatever happened to Maddie, didn’t provoke a large bloodshed.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html
So the source is Sol, not anything in the police files?


But when did the dogs go in? Was it weeks later? (Sorry my memory is bad these days). Could cleaners etc., have washed them. Wasn't the apartment re-let? I', sure I read somewhere the PJ never kept this apartment sealed. I think Marin Brunt said something about it. I really am getting confused, I wish my memory was better.

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by aiyoyo on 11.07.10 13:59

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:In researching material for our response to 'Chinagirl's rebuttal of our leaflet on Goncalo Amaral, I came across a Portuguese news report of the libel trial in Lisbon in January 2010, which quoted Magalhães e Menezes, the Public Ministry Prosecutor who archived the case, telling the court: “The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance. That doesn’t mean it’s the right one”.

Actually IIRC that was reported in the press when he archived the case back in 2007.
It was heavily discussed on the then 3A by Stinky Sardine and some other posters...
The final PJ report and the comments of Magalhães e Menezes were in July 2008.

When you say 'reported in the press', aiyoyo, remember that Magalhães e Menezes signed off his report in July 2008 but this quote of his is much nore recent - from the libel trial in Lisbon in January this year.

My point is that no British press has reported on the comments Magalhães e Menezes made this year.

Sorry got year wrong - should be Jul 2008.

If the Final Report was made in July 2008 by the public prosecutor,Magalhães e Menezes, then it was then he had made the same exact statement to the PT press when he publicly announced the archive.

In short, the statement you found made in Janaury 2010 was exactly the same he made in JUl 2008.

I remember this very well, because at that time I found his statement very disturbing and took to discuss it with a PT poster named Stinky Sardine (with legal background) and I posed her the question whether high court PT officials could be corrupted? She thought definitely NOT btw.
Not so many posters then paid attention to details in his public speech during archive.

I remember it very well because it disturbed me so much, I kept a copy of that publicity, but since my PC gone kaput I no longer have it anywhere.

IF someone knows how to retrieve data on the old 3as , search for stinky sardine and see what comes up.

Alternatively, search PT press coverage of the case on archive date and that should show up.

As to why this was not picked up by the UK Press, need we second guess the answer?

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Re: The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance - Magalhães e Menezes

Post by aiyoyo on 13.08.10 2:43



..........The process about the disappearance of Maddie is recoiling into the archives of the Portimão Courthouse for now, through a decision from the Public Ministry, but it will remain classed by the appointed prosecutor, Magalhães e Menezes, as a case of qualified homicide and concealment of cadaver. Although the McCanns lose their arguido status, the archiving does not erase the PJ's suspicions against the couple........Portugese tabloid dated 2 July 2008


Case was achived on 21 July 2008
José de Magalhães e Menezes states there is "a high degree of probability that a homicide took place",,,,,,,portuguese tabloid dated 2 august 2008


aiyoyo

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