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Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by tinkier on 25.08.15 17:09

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Good taste Verdi....I can just picture you reading our posts.......

Happiness is a cigar called Hamlet.....
Am I the only one that had to google Jacques Loussier?…… had a wee listen on youtube, you certainly do have very good taste Verdi!


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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by Dr What on 25.08.15 19:03

Perhaps anyone who has a 'low BS threshold', would do better not to engage in the particular debate.

That way, they could save their own time and energy by not wading through 'BS' and they could limit themselves to commenting only on subjects and opinions that they agree with.They would clearly feel better and would be able to conceal their lack of open mindedness.
As far as I'm aware, this is a forum for debating the issues.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by Guest on 25.08.15 19:08

Let's get back on topic, please.  Mod.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by HelenMeg on 25.08.15 19:59

Yes - exactly why did they point the finger at Murat?

Was it because they knew he could not 'answer  back'?  In other words,  he couldn't spill anything or he would get himself into trouble too. He was a safe person to point the finger at.
Was it because they were able to reward him later for his trouble.
I think he was just one of those that Team Mc Cann pointed the finger at. There were others such as Rasta man etc. I think all were diversionary tactics to keep the PJ busy
whilst Team Mc Cann thought up their next strategy.... They must have been desperate at that time to create a diversion - they were being looked at themselves..

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by whodunit on 25.08.15 20:48

@HelenMeg wrote:Yes - exactly why did they point the finger at Murat?

Was it because they knew he could not 'answer  back'?  In other words,  he couldn't spill anything or he would get himself into trouble too. He was a safe person to point the finger at.
Was it because they were able to reward him later for his trouble.
I think he was just one of those that Team Mc Cann pointed the finger at. There were others such as Rasta man etc. I think all were diversionary tactics to keep the PJ busy
whilst Team Mc Cann thought up their next strategy.... They must have been desperate at that time to create a diversion - they were being looked at themselves..

If as I speculate Murat was some kind of 'cleaner'--btw, this is the 'urban dictionary' definition of a cleaner. [most often associated with organized crime/criminal activities]

cleaner
A specialized person who removes incriminating evidence from a crime scene (usually one involving murder) in order to make the legal consequences of the crime go away.

Cleaners will get rid of evidence like bodies, blood, weapons, fingerprints, and even witnesses in order to hide the proof or notion of the crime -- or, they will 'dress up' the crime scene to mislead authorities. For example, they could make it appear like a break-in gone bad, an act of self defense, a fire, etc.
The cleaner used bleach to remove the the blood stains from the carpet, and although this would still leave DNA evidence, one could always claim that the victim once had a nose bleed there... a very very massive nose blead! http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cleaner

cont..Murat was always going to be the patsy because he got his hands dirty and therefore easy to set up. The Smith sighting was his/his friend's way of saying he could return the favor. Perhaps TM were meant to infer that Murat had some kind of proof in his possession.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by BlueBag on 26.08.15 7:19

@Dr What wrote:Perhaps anyone who has a 'low BS threshold', would do better not to engage in the particular debate.
Why?

Didn't you want to hear about maternal bloodlines and why the hair evidence is virtually worthless?

People who were talking about the hair didn't know what they were talking about.

That was cleared up.

You do want honesty and accuracy don't you?


would be able to conceal their lack of open mindedness.

I think critical thinking, precision and accuracy are important in a case where libel cases fly all around us and other forums have been shut down.

Who would want to see this forum shut down?

Don't give them reasons.


As far as I'm aware, this is a forum for debating the issues

I do debate. You just don't like what I have to say.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by guest12345 on 26.08.15 14:18

@whodunit wrote:@guest12345

@whodunit wrote:The Gaspar statements alone means there is far more evidence of pedophilia than there is for swinging.
Not really, it shows that someone reported that one person (Payne) showed an unhealthy interest and did strange gestures, but not on that holiday. If it was so relevant, he would've been brought in and would've been the target.



Strange gestures? Strange gestures? Dude, he didn't get up and do the hokey pokey he simulated a blowjob in reference to a CHILD in front of the child's father who did not react by beating him senseless. The implications of this 'strange gesture' and the non-reaction did not end in Morocco but carried over into PDL. Actually, it carries implications for Payne, McCann et al forevermore.

Sheesh.

Maybe i missed something here.... the gestures were not an admittance by Payne, they were a perceived observation by a 3rd party. I am not saying they are made up by the 3rd party, and i am certainly not saying that if they are true, such gestures are ok by any shot as that is disgusting. I am simply stating that they have no relevance to the PDL situation as they were not logged there. If Payne was on CEOPs radar prior to Luz and had a conviction for such activities, or he had been reported for those gestures having taken place in PDL, he would've been no.1 suspect and pulled in and strung up for all to blame.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by BlueBag on 26.08.15 16:47

I am simply stating that they have no relevance to the PDL situation as they were not logged there. 

Frankly, that is a bizarre point of view.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by whodunit on 26.08.15 16:53

@BlueBag wrote:
I am simply stating that they have no relevance to the PDL situation as they were not logged there. 

Frankly, that is a bizarre point of view.

Frankly, I have to agree.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 26.08.15 16:57

Did we hear any more from Yvonne Warren Martin, as she was suspicious of DP at the time ?

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by guest12345 on 27.08.15 8:01

@whodunit wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
I am simply stating that they have no relevance to the PDL situation as they were not logged there. 

Frankly, that is a bizarre point of view.

Frankly, I have to agree.

I am meaning in terms of evidence and the scene of the crime. It was logged in a different country at a different time.

In terms of profiling it could be useful though

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by Angelique on 27.08.15 8:59

IMO the reason Murat was initially identified was as a "stooge" to enable payment for services rendered.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by BlueBag on 27.08.15 9:05

@guest12345 wrote:
@whodunit wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
I am simply stating that they have no relevance to the PDL situation as they were not logged there. 

Frankly, that is a bizarre point of view.

Frankly, I have to agree.

I am meaning in terms of evidence and the scene of the crime. It was logged in a different country at a different time.

In terms of profiling it could be useful though
Oh.. so it was relevant.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 27.08.15 9:05

@Angelique wrote:IMO the reason Murat was initially identified was as a "stooge" to enable payment for services rendered.
With bonus payment coming from the British media !

IMO

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by tigger on 27.08.15 10:08

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:
@Angelique wrote:IMO the reason Murat was initially identified was as a "stooge" to enable payment for services rendered.
With bonus payment coming from the British media !

IMO


I think TM were simply told to do so.  Probably by the two 'Cracker' experts sent from CEOP.  Dr. Amaral has said somewhere that from the start the British wanted the PJ to look at Murat and nowhere else!

As for payment, Metodo3 or Halligan type arrangements could have done the job I feel. My feeling is that once the British eagles had landed it was abundantly clear to them that all was not well with the abduction scenario. Woolfall obliged and swore blind they'd never mentioned it in the first couple of months. He also tried and failed to tone down the public interest, e.g. urging the McCs to leave the church by a side door - but no... now we have the parents glowing with joy coming out of the church on what should have been their first-born's  4th birthday.

What I'm trying to say is that the powers that be wanted the thing to be safely put to bed - arresting Murat would be ideal. Likelyhood would be that papers could not print much because of Portuguese law and English law in such cases.
The Murat thing could putter on for nearly a year before his release and long before that the global Maddie campaign would have ended up as a modest Fund in Rothley with occasional interviews with the parents who would - just like the rest of the population - not be able to say anything due to a possible court case against Murat.

Not for nothing did the FO demand Clarrie back in early June, they'd only lent him for the Euro tour and that was a damp squib. But Clarence was indeed becoming the story himself, perhaps he'd never enjoyed himself so much.

Pointing at Murat wasn't in TM's interest, as it would make none of the sightings worth a headline. It would curtail the publicity if normal rules were obeyed. Last thing they wanted.
I think they played it both ways, accusing Murat and fielding any number of creepies, the press hadn't been so happy in years. They were right behind the McCs.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by guest12345 on 28.08.15 13:22

@BlueBag wrote:
@guest12345 wrote:
@whodunit wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
I am simply stating that they have no relevance to the PDL situation as they were not logged there. 

Frankly, that is a bizarre point of view.

Frankly, I have to agree.

I am meaning in terms of evidence and the scene of the crime. It was logged in a different country at a different time.

In terms of profiling it could be useful though
Oh.. so it was relevant.
Not in the charging of someone based on factual evidence no...else he would have been made a suspect from day 1 and charges. Was he??....no.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by whodunit on 28.08.15 13:46

@guest12345---"Not in the charging of someone based on factual evidence no...else he would have been made a suspect from day 1 and charges. Was he??....no."

Are you kidding? The whole point of this forum is there were suspects in this case who should have been charged with crimes relating to the disappearance of MBM but never were.

As far as using the Gaspar statement for the purposes of profiling you say that as if it's an academic question with no attachment to realities on the ground.

The reality is this case involves a missing/presumed dead child and a statement which accuses her father and another man who was close to her at the time of her disappearance of behaving in a manner strongly suggestive of pedophilic activity should have been more than enough  to warrant a closer look into every aspect of their lives. But the PJ were prevented from looking at relevant phone, financial, and medical records. What does that tell you?

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by guest12345 on 28.08.15 15:49

@whodunit wrote:@guest12345---"Not in the charging of someone based on factual evidence no...else he would have been made a suspect from day 1 and charges. Was he??....no."

Are you kidding? The whole point of this forum is there were suspects in this case who should have been charged with crimes relating to the disappearance of MBM but never were. Based on theories on here. Just because we conclude that someone should be a suspect, doesn't mean they are. Police forces can only go off evidence.

As far as using the Gaspar statement for the purposes of profiling you say that as if it's an academic question with no attachment to realities on the ground.
It is....Gasper statement, interesting, is it confirmed/was he charged with anything? no, hmmm, ok, do the tapas people support the statement, no, hmmm, has anyone seen anything similar happen whilst he has been in Luz, no, hmm, so different location, logged by someone not involved here, he was never charged, non of the tapas group think he has an interest in children and his alibi stacks up. Hmmm, carry on.

The reality is this case involves a missing/presumed dead child and a statement which accuses her father and another man who was close to her at the time of her disappearance of behaving in a manner strongly suggestive of pedophilic activity should have been more than enough  to warrant a closer look into every aspect of their lives. No, he was not reported as doing that behavior at that time or location, therefore although it should be noted/verified, it has no impact on his alibi But the PJ were prevented from looking at relevant phone, financial, and medical records. What does that tell you? The Pj were most likely denied access to many UK records, as per standard procedure, but the UK isn't. Therefore CEOP, Leicester Police, SY and OG would review the records and would have hauled him in if they suspected him of involvement. They didn't/haven't.
It tells me that's what has been put to the public and people believe what they have been told.

I'm not saying that the gasper statements weren't true, but if Payne was a genuine suspect, he would've been made a suspect in both Portuguese and UK investigations. The fact of the matter is...he wasn't formally a suspect. What does that tell you???...as above, that the statements were either not true/proven, there is no link to the events in Portugal and thus no grounds. 

If it were true, the Tapas lot would've also thrown him to the wolves, the papers would've been all over it and the McCanns would have stayed away from him. They didn't.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by BlueBag on 28.08.15 15:52

@guest12345 wrote:

Not in the charging of someone based on factual evidence no...else he would have been made a suspect from day 1 and charges. Was he??....no.
You do know that the statement was withheld from the PJ?

So they - deliberately it seems - didn't have the relevant evidence to make him a suspect.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by guest12345 on 28.08.15 15:58

@BlueBag wrote:
@guest12345 wrote:

Not in the charging of someone based on factual evidence no...else he would have been made a suspect from day 1 and charges. Was he??....no.
You do know that the statement was withheld from the PJ?

So they - deliberately it seems - didn't have the relevant evidence to make him a suspect.
Oh hello Bluebag, i was waiting for a response from you.

Standard practice not to hand over police/gvt files over. As per my previous reply, the UK forces have access to it and have not made him a suspect have they?

Evidence of something that 'could have happened' in another place at another time, logged by someone not with them in Luz, does not constitute making him a suspect. 

Dodgy alibi, forensics, witness statements, verification from people in Luz at the time regarding his behavior/actions etc does. 

Put the question another way.... If the PJ had access to that statement, would they have made him a formal suspect based on that? What else have they got on him?

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by whodunit on 28.08.15 21:01

@guest12345--Therefore CEOP, Leicester Police, SY and OG would review the records and would have hauled him in if they suspected him of involvement. They didn't/haven't.

Well guest, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree with your trust in authority. Authorities, I might add, who have been incredibly lax and even willfully unwilling to prosecute claims of CSA.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by BlueBag on 29.08.15 8:13

@guest12345 wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@guest12345 wrote:

Not in the charging of someone based on factual evidence no...else he would have been made a suspect fro

m day 1 and charges. Was he??....no.
You do know that the statement was withheld from the PJ?

So they - deliberately it seems - didn't have the relevant evidence to make him a suspect.
Oh hello Bluebag, i was waiting for a response from you.

Standard practice not to hand over police/gvt files over. As per my previous reply, the UK forces have access to it and have not made him a suspect have they?

Evidence of something that 'could have happened' in another place at another time, logged by someone not with them in Luz, does not constitute making him a suspect. 

Dodgy alibi, forensics, witness statements, verification from people in Luz at the time regarding his behavior/actions etc does. 

Put the question another way.... If the PJ had access to that statement, would they have made him a formal suspect based on that? What else have they got on him?
Standard practice? 

So why DID they send them 6 months later?

Your last line is a joke. "Based on that?" 

Well hell yes.... a person of interest for certain.

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Re: Robert Murat - Exactly why did the McCann Team point the finger at him?

Post by guest12345 on 07.09.15 16:02

@BlueBag wrote:
@guest12345 wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@guest12345 wrote:

Not in the charging of someone based on factual evidence no...else he would have been made a suspect fro

m day 1 and charges. Was he??....no.
You do know that the statement was withheld from the PJ?

So they - deliberately it seems - didn't have the relevant evidence to make him a suspect.
Oh hello Bluebag, i was waiting for a response from you.

Standard practice not to hand over police/gvt files over. As per my previous reply, the UK forces have access to it and have not made him a suspect have they?

Evidence of something that 'could have happened' in another place at another time, logged by someone not with them in Luz, does not constitute making him a suspect. 

Dodgy alibi, forensics, witness statements, verification from people in Luz at the time regarding his behavior/actions etc does. 

Put the question another way.... If the PJ had access to that statement, would they have made him a formal suspect based on that? What else have they got on him?
Standard practice? - Yes

So why DID they send them 6 months later? - Government pressure i presume, plus the forces agreeing to work together.

Your last line is a joke. "Based on that?" - ????

Well hell yes.... a person of interest for certain. - So why not charged??? Why not arguido? why not a suspect in the UK? why still a friend of the McCanns? Forum member may think he is dodgy (and could quite well be), but the forces obviously don't as he is still a free man.

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