The search for Ben Needham continues
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Other Crimes and Mysteries :: Ben Needham - missing from the Greek Island of Kos in 1991
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The search for Ben Needham continues
http://www.itv.com/lorraine/hot-topics/ben-needham-mum-sister-kerry-leighanna
It will be Ben Needham's 25th birthday on 29 October and today his mum Kerry and sister Leighanna join us to tell us why they are increasingly frustrated with what's happening in the continuing search for Ben, 23 years after he went missing on the Greek Isle of Kos.
( mentions funding Mccanns have had very interesting interview with Kerry Bens mum , she states they had no help when Ben went missing not even a translator . I sincerely hope the Needham family finally get the help and support they should have had years ago . Kerry has always come across as nothing but honest and genuine and I do believe that there is a strong possibility that indeed Ben is still alive yet this poor family have had to beg for crumbs over the past 23 years and the Mccanns in the meantime have had every possible form of help made available to them they have had god knows how much money raised in Madeleines name and an investigation into millions to boot . )
It will be Ben Needham's 25th birthday on 29 October and today his mum Kerry and sister Leighanna join us to tell us why they are increasingly frustrated with what's happening in the continuing search for Ben, 23 years after he went missing on the Greek Isle of Kos.
( mentions funding Mccanns have had very interesting interview with Kerry Bens mum , she states they had no help when Ben went missing not even a translator . I sincerely hope the Needham family finally get the help and support they should have had years ago . Kerry has always come across as nothing but honest and genuine and I do believe that there is a strong possibility that indeed Ben is still alive yet this poor family have had to beg for crumbs over the past 23 years and the Mccanns in the meantime have had every possible form of help made available to them they have had god knows how much money raised in Madeleines name and an investigation into millions to boot . )
frost- Posts : 210
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
Sonia Poulton @SoniaPoulton · 10 hrs 10 hours ago
Happy 25th Birthday, Ben Needham. Please remember all missing children and their families, they all count. pic.twitter.com/bPHW8q4n7P
View more photos and videos
Couldn't agree more Sonia.
Happy 25th Birthday, Ben Needham. Please remember all missing children and their families, they all count. pic.twitter.com/bPHW8q4n7P
View more photos and videos
Couldn't agree more Sonia.
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/exclusive-pressure-grows-for-decision-on-new-probe-into-missing-ben-needham-1-6967797
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
A lot of interesting comments on the Facebook page.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-02-16/ben-needhams-mum-issues-direct-appeal-to-find-him/
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-02-16/ben-needhams-mum-issues-direct-appeal-to-find-him/
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
Take a look at the Ben Needham shop.
http://www.helpfindben.co.uk/shop.html
It's the tackiest thing I've seen to date and I bought Kerry Needham's book!
Take a look at what you get when you google ben needham....the first thing that appears on my browser is 'missing people'
https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/help-us-find/ben-needham?gclid=COri17it_8MCFXGWtAodqk4ANA
http://www.helpfindben.co.uk/shop.html
It's the tackiest thing I've seen to date and I bought Kerry Needham's book!
Take a look at what you get when you google ben needham....the first thing that appears on my browser is 'missing people'
https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/help-us-find/ben-needham?gclid=COri17it_8MCFXGWtAodqk4ANA
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If you thought you were Ben
If you were a 25 year old man who saw this campaign and you saw you had a similar birthmark, what would you do?
Bear in mind you do not know Kerry - you only know what you go on to read about the case. So you have no feeling of familial connection.
My question is, would you make yourself known and volunteer for DNA testing? Or would you be happier living your life not knowing?
A kinder part of the decision making process might be that finding out would be confusing and traumatic.
A less kind part might be that the family seem like a complete horror story and you couldn't think of a worse fate than being forced to get to know them.
Or is it only me who is unkind enough to wonder that?
Bear in mind you do not know Kerry - you only know what you go on to read about the case. So you have no feeling of familial connection.
My question is, would you make yourself known and volunteer for DNA testing? Or would you be happier living your life not knowing?
A kinder part of the decision making process might be that finding out would be confusing and traumatic.
A less kind part might be that the family seem like a complete horror story and you couldn't think of a worse fate than being forced to get to know them.
Or is it only me who is unkind enough to wonder that?
Letterwriter- Posts : 69
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
I don't think you are unkind to wonder what you do. I think you're realistic.Letterwriter wrote:If you were a 25 year old man who saw this campaign and you saw you had a similar birthmark, what would you do?
Bear in mind you do not know Kerry - you only know what you go on to read about the case. So you have no feeling of familial connection.
My question is, would you make yourself known and volunteer for DNA testing? Or would you be happier living your life not knowing?
A kinder part of the decision making process might be that finding out would be confusing and traumatic.
A less kind part might be that the family seem like a complete horror story and you couldn't think of a worse fate than being forced to get to know them.
Or is it only me who is unkind enough to wonder that?
Can you imagine being Ben Needham, alive and kicking, having had a life (whatever that life has brought) and getting caught up in a media frenzy with every bloody missing person agency in the world wanting a piece of you?
I don't believe Ben is alive but that's only my opinion. I believe Kerry Needham is becoming a media babe looking at the formula on her website. I'm disappointed in her in allowing herself to be manipulated. I bought her book. I pre-ordered it. It was Mills and Boon at its worst, again only my opinion but as I bought the book I seem to think I have some sort of right to give an opinion on it.
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
Yes, it's sadly a theoretical question I think.
This case aside, there was that case in France were 2 babies were given to the wrong mothers in the hospital. The error was only discovered years later. The families have decided not to keep in touch as it is too confusing - both families feel happier with the family they have had from the start - the kids aren't related to those who raised them but the familial feelings are there due to having been in the family from birth.
Blood being thicker than water is rubbish - the feeling of love and connection is brought on by familiarity, being cared for etc. Not by blood.
So let's say (even though this has never happened before 1991 or since, despite what we are told) a family with good intentions kidnapped Ben and raised him as their own. No way would he feel anything for Kerry - he won't remember her at all. I know it isn't what people like to think about their children/possessions - but it's true. The blood won't matter to Ben. Probably not to Kerry either if she could be objective about it.
This case aside, there was that case in France were 2 babies were given to the wrong mothers in the hospital. The error was only discovered years later. The families have decided not to keep in touch as it is too confusing - both families feel happier with the family they have had from the start - the kids aren't related to those who raised them but the familial feelings are there due to having been in the family from birth.
Blood being thicker than water is rubbish - the feeling of love and connection is brought on by familiarity, being cared for etc. Not by blood.
So let's say (even though this has never happened before 1991 or since, despite what we are told) a family with good intentions kidnapped Ben and raised him as their own. No way would he feel anything for Kerry - he won't remember her at all. I know it isn't what people like to think about their children/possessions - but it's true. The blood won't matter to Ben. Probably not to Kerry either if she could be objective about it.
Letterwriter- Posts : 69
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
I don't believe he's alive, either. When Ben first disappeared, I wanted them to search and search to exhaustion to try and find him. After all, a young child, and even a young person, up to the age of 17 or 18 may not have had the opportunity - if he had been abducted - to contact someone outside that family. However, if he IS still alive, he would now be 25/26 years of age, and I am sure Ben would contact someone if he wanted to be found. He's probably married with a family of his own now. But I will go back to my gut feeling, that Ben died way back in 1991.aquila wrote:I don't think you are unkind to wonder what you do. I think you're realistic.Letterwriter wrote:If you were a 25 year old man who saw this campaign and you saw you had a similar birthmark, what would you do?
Bear in mind you do not know Kerry - you only know what you go on to read about the case. So you have no feeling of familial connection.
My question is, would you make yourself known and volunteer for DNA testing? Or would you be happier living your life not knowing?
A kinder part of the decision making process might be that finding out would be confusing and traumatic.
A less kind part might be that the family seem like a complete horror story and you couldn't think of a worse fate than being forced to get to know them.
Or is it only me who is unkind enough to wonder that?
Can you imagine being Ben Needham, alive and kicking, having had a life (whatever that life has brought) and getting caught up in a media frenzy with every bloody missing person agency in the world wanting a piece of you?
I don't believe Ben is alive but that's only my opinion. I believe Kerry Needham is becoming a media babe looking at the formula on her website. I'm disappointed in her in allowing herself to be manipulated. I bought her book. I pre-ordered it. It was Mills and Boon at its worst, again only my opinion but as I bought the book I seem to think I have some sort of right to give an opinion on it.
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
Who was the last person to see Ben? I would think therein lies the 'mystery'.
An accident that was covered up. That's where I would put my money.
An accident that was covered up. That's where I would put my money.
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
aquila wrote:Take a look at the Ben Needham shop.
http://www.helpfindben.co.uk/shop.html
It's the tackiest thing I've seen to date and I bought Kerry Needham's book!
Take a look at what you get when you google ben needham....the first thing that appears on my browser is 'missing people'
https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/help-us-find/ben-needham?gclid=COri17it_8MCFXGWtAodqk4ANA
Strange how 'Missing People' emphasize the 'i's in the word Missing. Just like the early poster campaign for Maddie emphasized her coloboma. Which she didn't have.
The organization is dodgy as hell, imo.
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
I think without any doubt the last person to see Ben Needham was his uncle, Stephen, who roared off on his motorbike on a hot July day as Ben was playing around his motorbike - and his grandparents were out in the garden.j.rob wrote:Who was the last person to see Ben? I would think therein lies the 'mystery'.
An accident that was covered up. That's where I would put my money.
I have also read Kerry Needham's book. The references to Stephen in the book are interesting, to say the least. The Greek police put it straight to Stephen that he had taken Ben on his motorbike for a ride, Ben had had a fatal accident, and that Stephen had disposed of his body. Stephen vehemently denied this.
On a TV programme, Stephen admitted to 'flashbacks' of Ben suffering an accident and him burying Ben.
Moreover Kerry Needham's lawyers took out an injunction against the TV company - and the hypnotist - ever revealing exactly what Stephen said whilst under hypnosis.
Nobody likes saying this, but on the evidence I've read, Ben suffering an accident on his uncle's motorbike is by far the most likely explanation why Ben is misisng.
Just like in another case, there is absoutely zero evidence that he was either (a) abducted or (b) wandered off.
As for Kerry Needham's tacky website, she has out-McCanned the McCanns by charging £2.70 for a good quality wristband:
http://www.helpfindben.co.uk/wristbands.html
Apparently they've got silicone in them
____________________
Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"
Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".
Tony Bennett- Researcher
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
The fact that everyone assumed he had gone off on his Uncle's motorbike suggests that this was something that happened quite often. Seventeen year old boys and motorbikes are not a good combination. And 18 month year old children most definitely should not be sitting on the back of a motorbike being driven by a 17 year old. Presumably without a helmet.
Accident waiting to happen. And you could see that, if this was the scenario (as I believe the Greek police thought was likely/possible) then it is very easy to see why someone might want to cover this up. The guilt would be huge. A catastrophe. I could understand how there might be a temptation to pretend that Ben had just mysteriously 'disappeared'. And how everyone might want to believe this rather than another scenario. As mysterious 'disappearances' take any spotlight away from what really might have happened and who might be responsible and also allow for some 'hope'.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/29/missing-child-ben-needham
Accident waiting to happen. And you could see that, if this was the scenario (as I believe the Greek police thought was likely/possible) then it is very easy to see why someone might want to cover this up. The guilt would be huge. A catastrophe. I could understand how there might be a temptation to pretend that Ben had just mysteriously 'disappeared'. And how everyone might want to believe this rather than another scenario. As mysterious 'disappearances' take any spotlight away from what really might have happened and who might be responsible and also allow for some 'hope'.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/29/missing-child-ben-needham
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My confusion
What I don't understand is why, on internet discussions, most people's recollection of the documentary/recollection of the Needham 'party line' is that the hypnosis exonerated Stephen.
Whereas other people recall that he had recollections that were very suspicious. Sure it isn't admissible evidence, it could be an implanted memory etc...
These recollections are so polarised that I wonder how it has come about.
Now I didn't see the documentary (I was only a kid in 1991, though I remember the case and reading newspaper articles about it) so I didn't even see the extracts of the hypnosis that made it to the final edit. I wish I could watch the documentary but there only seems to be Needham-sourced stuff on Youtube
Whereas other people recall that he had recollections that were very suspicious. Sure it isn't admissible evidence, it could be an implanted memory etc...
These recollections are so polarised that I wonder how it has come about.
Now I didn't see the documentary (I was only a kid in 1991, though I remember the case and reading newspaper articles about it) so I didn't even see the extracts of the hypnosis that made it to the final edit. I wish I could watch the documentary but there only seems to be Needham-sourced stuff on Youtube
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
Tony Bennett wrote:I think without any doubt the last person to see Ben Needham was his uncle, Stephen, who roared off on his motorbike on a hot July day as Ben was playing around his motorbike - and his grandparents were out in the garden.j.rob wrote:Who was the last person to see Ben? I would think therein lies the 'mystery'.
An accident that was covered up. That's where I would put my money.
I have also read Kerry Needham's book. The references to Stephen in the book are interesting, to say the least. The Greek police put it straight to Stephen that he had taken Ben on his motorbike for a ride, Ben had had a fatal accident, and that Stephen had disposed of his body. Stephen vehemently denied this.
On a TV programme, Stephen admitted to 'flashbacks' of Ben suffering an accident and him burying Ben.
Moreover Kerry Needham's lawyers took out an injunction against the TV company - and the hypnotist - ever revealing exactly what Stephen said whilst under hypnosis.
Nobody likes saying this, but on the evidence I've read, Ben suffering an accident on his uncle's motorbike is by far the most likely explanation why Ben is misisng.
Just like in another case, there is absoutely zero evidence that he was either (a) abducted or (b) wandered off.
As for Kerry Needham's tacky website, she has out-McCanned the McCanns by charging £2.70 for a good quality wristband:
http://www.helpfindben.co.uk/wristbands.html
Apparently they've got silicone in them
Yes. This seems like by far the most likely scenario. And I think Stephen's version of events is that Ben was asking for a ride on his motorbike and that Stephen said no.
So Stephen himself brings up this scenario. And why would Stephen say no on that particular occasion. When on other occasions he said yes?
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
j.rob wrote:The fact that everyone assumed he had gone off on his Uncle's motorbike suggests that this was something that happened quite often. Seventeen year old boys and motorbikes are not a good combination. And 18 month year old children most definitely should not be sitting on the back of a motorbike being driven by a 17 year old. Presumably without a helmet.
Accident waiting to happen. And you could see that, if this was the scenario (as I believe the Greek police thought was likely/possible) then it is very easy to see why someone might want to cover this up. The guilt would be huge. A catastrophe. I could understand how there might be a temptation to pretend that Ben had just mysteriously 'disappeared'. And how everyone might want to believe this rather than another scenario. As mysterious 'disappearances' take any spotlight away from what really might have happened and who might be responsible and also allow for some 'hope'.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/29/missing-child-ben-needham
There is no way that such a young child could be trusted to keep hold of the rider. I bet you could get him to hold on but he'd probably let go at some random moment. But a 17 year old might not realise that. Also, the road was bumpy giving more room for mishaps.
I think time hasn't helped this mystery. Back in 1991 there was no widespread internet use and the world seemed a lot larger. I think people believed that perhaps distant Greek islands did contain packs of gypsies who had a penchant for kidnapping children. I think the media was more believed then - probably in part because we didn't have a way to share knowledge and expose the untruths.
I wonder who started the kidnapping theory. With the passage of time I expect it couldn't be reliably found. But I bet it wasn't the police - they seemed to have a firm opinion on what happened. They probably weren't that interested in exploring a theory that this was the first ever kidnapping by gypsies looking to expand their clan - because obviously gypsies have trouble producing children so they need to go round kidnapping them.
Gypsies kidnapping children. Sounds like the sort of stupid tale parents would tell children in order to frighten them into behaving. Bit like the Boogeyman.
The case smelt in 1991. But now it absolutely stinks.
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
Is it too late to offer lie detector tests?
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The McCann case and the Needham case
Snipped from article below:
At about two-thirty, Stephen left on his moped to go for a swim, a beer and a shower at Kerry's flat. Ben wanted to go with him; he'd been on the bike before, and now he wanted to go with his uncle. A few minutes after Stephen left, Christine registered that Ben had gone quiet and went outside. He was nowhere to be seen. She, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis Kypreos searched up and down the lane, in the field by the house, in a nearby orange grove, calling for him, looking anywhere he could conceivably be. When they couldn't find him, they assumed he must have gone with Stephen; it was the logical explanation. They thought Stephen had taken Ben for a ride and would bring him back.
My comment on the sentences above in red. This is a highly suspicious account. It is not logical. I think it is highly deceptive. Why would Ben's Grandmother, Grandfather, other Uncle and family friend search 'anywhere' Ben could conceivably be - not find Ben. And then just give up searching. And do nothing at all. Of course they wouldn't do that! The order of this is wrong. The only logical sequence of events would be for them to notice Ben was not there and assume he had gone off with Stephen. They would hope that Ben had gone off with Stephen on his motorbike. As time went by and Stephen did not return, they would then get worried and wonder where he was and where Ben was. And wonder if there had been an accident. Nothing else is logical.
About an hour later, thinking Stephen had gone to the caravan instead of coming back to the farmhouse, or had gone to Kerry's flat, Christine walked back to Paradisi, while Eddie, Danny and Kypreos stayed working on the roof.
So even after an hour, thinking that 18 month year old Ben had gone off on the back of a 17 year old's moped, without protective clothing or a helmet I assume, the Grandparents, who are in 'loco parentis' are not worried at all? They don't know where Ben is. They think he might have gone off with his Uncle. But they do nothing at all to check that this is what has happened and nothing to check that there has not been an accident? Nope. I don't buy it.
All afternoon no-one does anything to find out whether Ben did go off with Stephen. And check that Ben is safe and there has not been an accident????
Uncle Stephen who had apparently gone for a swim, a beer and a shower at Kerry's flat on this boiling hot day, during which little Ben was, we are told, pouring water over his head from a bucket as he played in the garden - and presumably desperate to take a dip in a pool - as his Uncle Stephen was about to do - did not return to the farmhouse. All afternoon?? What the heck was he up to all this time?
Even after an hour, Grandmother Christine is still not checking whether Ben actually did go with Stephen? She just makes an 'assumption' that Ben is still with Stephen. And goes off to work? And Eddie, Danny and Kypreos also do not check where Ben is or whether he is okay?
Rubbish. By this time the Grandparents would be worried. Did Ben go off with Stephen or not? At least one of them - after an hour or so at the least - would then wonder whether everything was okay? There could have been an accident? Why has Stephen not come back? Is Ben safe?
In the early evening Eddie went to the caravan expecting to find Ben with Christine.
Even by the early evening, Grandfather Eddie is still assuming that Stephen has taken Ben back to the caravan. More rubbish.Why? Why would Stephen not go back to the farmhouse and work on the roof as the other men did that afternoon, or so they say? And not one of them checked to see where Stephen and Ben were? All afternoon?
Absolute nonsense. Grandfather Eddie would have rushed out to check whether Stephen had had an accident on his moped and whether Ben was okay.
He wasn't, so Eddie went to Kerry's flat, thinking he'd be there. Stephen was there, but without Ben.
So Stephen had been at Kerry's flat all afternoon? Why? Why didn't he return to the farmhouse? This is just such a red flag!
Eddie raced back to the caravan to tell Christine and then went back to Herakles in the Land Rover.
Hmmm. So Grandmother Christine was packed off to work that afternoon at the hotel, then? Even though she didn't know where Ben was? While the men happily worked on the roof all afternoon and Ben's Uncle lazed around at Kerry's flat all afternoon? I think not. Looks like the men covered up something from Kerry and, perhaps, Grandmother too, imo.
Stephen took Christine to the police on his bike and then joined his father.
Interesting how it was Grandmother Christine who went to the police.
It was several hours since Ben had vanished by the time the police took Christine to the hotel to tell Kerry what had happened. Kerry had finished her shift and was sitting by the swimming pool when her mother arrived, sobbing, to tell her Ben had disappeared.
Maybe Grandmother knew what had happened too?
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/29/missing-child-ben-needham
Interesting that the owner of the villa - apparently a family friend of the Needhams - that the Needham's had been helping him to do up moved to Australia after the disappearance of Ben. Didn't stay in Kos, then at the villa?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/police-dogs-search-field-in-kos-1388524
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2312250/Ben-Needham-Sr-Leighanna-explains-impact-disappearance-brother-life.html
At about two-thirty, Stephen left on his moped to go for a swim, a beer and a shower at Kerry's flat. Ben wanted to go with him; he'd been on the bike before, and now he wanted to go with his uncle. A few minutes after Stephen left, Christine registered that Ben had gone quiet and went outside. He was nowhere to be seen. She, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis Kypreos searched up and down the lane, in the field by the house, in a nearby orange grove, calling for him, looking anywhere he could conceivably be. When they couldn't find him, they assumed he must have gone with Stephen; it was the logical explanation. They thought Stephen had taken Ben for a ride and would bring him back.
My comment on the sentences above in red. This is a highly suspicious account. It is not logical. I think it is highly deceptive. Why would Ben's Grandmother, Grandfather, other Uncle and family friend search 'anywhere' Ben could conceivably be - not find Ben. And then just give up searching. And do nothing at all. Of course they wouldn't do that! The order of this is wrong. The only logical sequence of events would be for them to notice Ben was not there and assume he had gone off with Stephen. They would hope that Ben had gone off with Stephen on his motorbike. As time went by and Stephen did not return, they would then get worried and wonder where he was and where Ben was. And wonder if there had been an accident. Nothing else is logical.
About an hour later, thinking Stephen had gone to the caravan instead of coming back to the farmhouse, or had gone to Kerry's flat, Christine walked back to Paradisi, while Eddie, Danny and Kypreos stayed working on the roof.
So even after an hour, thinking that 18 month year old Ben had gone off on the back of a 17 year old's moped, without protective clothing or a helmet I assume, the Grandparents, who are in 'loco parentis' are not worried at all? They don't know where Ben is. They think he might have gone off with his Uncle. But they do nothing at all to check that this is what has happened and nothing to check that there has not been an accident? Nope. I don't buy it.
All afternoon no-one does anything to find out whether Ben did go off with Stephen. And check that Ben is safe and there has not been an accident????
Uncle Stephen who had apparently gone for a swim, a beer and a shower at Kerry's flat on this boiling hot day, during which little Ben was, we are told, pouring water over his head from a bucket as he played in the garden - and presumably desperate to take a dip in a pool - as his Uncle Stephen was about to do - did not return to the farmhouse. All afternoon?? What the heck was he up to all this time?
Even after an hour, Grandmother Christine is still not checking whether Ben actually did go with Stephen? She just makes an 'assumption' that Ben is still with Stephen. And goes off to work? And Eddie, Danny and Kypreos also do not check where Ben is or whether he is okay?
Rubbish. By this time the Grandparents would be worried. Did Ben go off with Stephen or not? At least one of them - after an hour or so at the least - would then wonder whether everything was okay? There could have been an accident? Why has Stephen not come back? Is Ben safe?
In the early evening Eddie went to the caravan expecting to find Ben with Christine.
Even by the early evening, Grandfather Eddie is still assuming that Stephen has taken Ben back to the caravan. More rubbish.Why? Why would Stephen not go back to the farmhouse and work on the roof as the other men did that afternoon, or so they say? And not one of them checked to see where Stephen and Ben were? All afternoon?
Absolute nonsense. Grandfather Eddie would have rushed out to check whether Stephen had had an accident on his moped and whether Ben was okay.
He wasn't, so Eddie went to Kerry's flat, thinking he'd be there. Stephen was there, but without Ben.
So Stephen had been at Kerry's flat all afternoon? Why? Why didn't he return to the farmhouse? This is just such a red flag!
Eddie raced back to the caravan to tell Christine and then went back to Herakles in the Land Rover.
Hmmm. So Grandmother Christine was packed off to work that afternoon at the hotel, then? Even though she didn't know where Ben was? While the men happily worked on the roof all afternoon and Ben's Uncle lazed around at Kerry's flat all afternoon? I think not. Looks like the men covered up something from Kerry and, perhaps, Grandmother too, imo.
Stephen took Christine to the police on his bike and then joined his father.
Interesting how it was Grandmother Christine who went to the police.
It was several hours since Ben had vanished by the time the police took Christine to the hotel to tell Kerry what had happened. Kerry had finished her shift and was sitting by the swimming pool when her mother arrived, sobbing, to tell her Ben had disappeared.
Maybe Grandmother knew what had happened too?
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/29/missing-child-ben-needham
Interesting that the owner of the villa - apparently a family friend of the Needhams - that the Needham's had been helping him to do up moved to Australia after the disappearance of Ben. Didn't stay in Kos, then at the villa?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/police-dogs-search-field-in-kos-1388524
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2312250/Ben-Needham-Sr-Leighanna-explains-impact-disappearance-brother-life.html
j.rob- Posts : 2243
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
The excerpt from the book by 'Ben' by his mother Kerry Needham describing the day when Ben disappeared also raises many red flags. In the chapter entitled: 'He's still out there,' (which has strange echoes of the Mcs oft repeated mantra: 'she is out there') Kerry recounts how Ben disappeared and they searched for him.
"How could a toddler just disappear? There was only one explanation. Stephen must have taken him."............
"Reckless of Stephen though it was, they were all desperate to believe something and that was the most convincing conclusion. They could relax now."
This is not a credible account. If they were 'desperate' then they would have started looking for Ben. To make sure that he really was with Stephen. They were 'desperate' to believe something but not desperate enough to search for Ben all afternoon? Totally unconvincing, imo.
That reminds me of the McCanns who were, apparently, so desperate to find Madeleine that they didn't bother to search for her on the night of her alleged 'abduction.'
Kerry recounts how her father hours later pulled up at the flat. As he went in, he could hear the shower so he let out a sigh of relief as it meant they were there. He then 'made himself comfortable' on the sofa.
Again, I find this account entirely unconvincing. Hearing the shower does not necessarily mean that Ben is there. It means someone is having a shower. Surely Ben's grandfather would step into the apartment, hear the shower going and yell out immediately: "Where's Ben?" probably barging into the shower room as well.
This account is also somewhat reminiscent of the episode in Kate's book where David Payne allegedly visits her at the apartment in the late afternoon of Thursday 4th May and calls out at the patio door. And Kate is in the shower. And steps out into the sitting-room wearing a towel.
I think accounts of showering in the context of the last adults to see a child who disappears mysterious are suspicious. They are suggestive of a need to clean up after something.
Kerry then writes how, a few minutes later, Stephen stepped out, saying, apparently:
"All right Dad? Have you come for a shower as well?"
Again, I find this utterly unconvincing and I think it is a very obvious attempt to make it appear that Ben's Grandfather and his Uncle are completely relaxed that afternoon. When the reverse is true.
"No I haven't. Where's Ben"
"What do you mean?"
"Is Ben with you?"
"No. Why?"
"You didn't bring him here on your bike?"
Unfortunately, rather as with Kate's book, I really do not believe a word of this. It sounds completely deceptive, imo.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R2u9AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=Michaelis+Kypreos,&source=bl&ots=v7RZTwyk8J&sig=dxn0nqFH_X
"How could a toddler just disappear? There was only one explanation. Stephen must have taken him."............
"Reckless of Stephen though it was, they were all desperate to believe something and that was the most convincing conclusion. They could relax now."
This is not a credible account. If they were 'desperate' then they would have started looking for Ben. To make sure that he really was with Stephen. They were 'desperate' to believe something but not desperate enough to search for Ben all afternoon? Totally unconvincing, imo.
That reminds me of the McCanns who were, apparently, so desperate to find Madeleine that they didn't bother to search for her on the night of her alleged 'abduction.'
Kerry recounts how her father hours later pulled up at the flat. As he went in, he could hear the shower so he let out a sigh of relief as it meant they were there. He then 'made himself comfortable' on the sofa.
Again, I find this account entirely unconvincing. Hearing the shower does not necessarily mean that Ben is there. It means someone is having a shower. Surely Ben's grandfather would step into the apartment, hear the shower going and yell out immediately: "Where's Ben?" probably barging into the shower room as well.
This account is also somewhat reminiscent of the episode in Kate's book where David Payne allegedly visits her at the apartment in the late afternoon of Thursday 4th May and calls out at the patio door. And Kate is in the shower. And steps out into the sitting-room wearing a towel.
I think accounts of showering in the context of the last adults to see a child who disappears mysterious are suspicious. They are suggestive of a need to clean up after something.
Kerry then writes how, a few minutes later, Stephen stepped out, saying, apparently:
"All right Dad? Have you come for a shower as well?"
Again, I find this utterly unconvincing and I think it is a very obvious attempt to make it appear that Ben's Grandfather and his Uncle are completely relaxed that afternoon. When the reverse is true.
"No I haven't. Where's Ben"
"What do you mean?"
"Is Ben with you?"
"No. Why?"
"You didn't bring him here on your bike?"
Unfortunately, rather as with Kate's book, I really do not believe a word of this. It sounds completely deceptive, imo.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R2u9AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=Michaelis+Kypreos,&source=bl&ots=v7RZTwyk8J&sig=dxn0nqFH_X
j.rob- Posts : 2243
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
Dad is so calm that he just comes in quietly and sits down and waits for Stephen to finish his shower. Grandad looks so calm that Stephen assumes his presence in the flat is just to have a shower. Stephen doesn't see his face and ask "What's wrong?".
This is after Stephen, despite working on the house, just decided to take off for the entire afternoon to chill without telling anyone. I mean, you'd tell your family anyway as a courtesy. You definitely would if they were expecting to be working with you that afternoon.
Dad also believes that Stephen just took Ben without telling anyone. Surely no one does that with any child - as you'd assume the family would want to know where they are. Even one parent would let the other parent know if they decided to pop out - especially if they take the child.
In the flat, as a minimum, wouldn't Grandad be saying "Stephen, you just ride off without telling anyone - leaving us in the lurch doing the renovations - thanks for that. Also, you taking Ben, we were worried sick - we searched EVERYWHERE. When we didn't find him we then assumed that the logical explanation was that you took him on your bike without telling us or taking any of the things he might need for a trip out. Anyway, I'm over it now. Shower free?......What?...you didn't take him...."
I agree - it stinks. That's the problem with giving detailed accounts. It's actually quite hard to string together a detailed pack of lies that stands up to scrutiny.
This is after Stephen, despite working on the house, just decided to take off for the entire afternoon to chill without telling anyone. I mean, you'd tell your family anyway as a courtesy. You definitely would if they were expecting to be working with you that afternoon.
Dad also believes that Stephen just took Ben without telling anyone. Surely no one does that with any child - as you'd assume the family would want to know where they are. Even one parent would let the other parent know if they decided to pop out - especially if they take the child.
In the flat, as a minimum, wouldn't Grandad be saying "Stephen, you just ride off without telling anyone - leaving us in the lurch doing the renovations - thanks for that. Also, you taking Ben, we were worried sick - we searched EVERYWHERE. When we didn't find him we then assumed that the logical explanation was that you took him on your bike without telling us or taking any of the things he might need for a trip out. Anyway, I'm over it now. Shower free?......What?...you didn't take him...."
I agree - it stinks. That's the problem with giving detailed accounts. It's actually quite hard to string together a detailed pack of lies that stands up to scrutiny.
Letterwriter- Posts : 69
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
Letterwriter wrote:Dad is so calm that he just comes in quietly and sits down and waits for Stephen to finish his shower. Grandad looks so calm that Stephen assumes his presence in the flat is just to have a shower. Stephen doesn't see his face and ask "What's wrong?".
This is after Stephen, despite working on the house, just decided to take off for the entire afternoon to chill without telling anyone. I mean, you'd tell your family anyway as a courtesy. You definitely would if they were expecting to be working with you that afternoon.
Dad also believes that Stephen just took Ben without telling anyone. Surely no one does that with any child - as you'd assume the family would want to know where they are. Even one parent would let the other parent know if they decided to pop out - especially if they take the child.
In the flat, as a minimum, wouldn't Grandad be saying "Stephen, you just ride off without telling anyone - leaving us in the lurch doing the renovations - thanks for that. Also, you taking Ben, we were worried sick - we searched EVERYWHERE. When we didn't find him we then assumed that the logical explanation was that you took him on your bike without telling us or taking any of the things he might need for a trip out. Anyway, I'm over it now. Shower free?......What?...you didn't take him...."
I agree - it stinks. That's the problem with giving detailed accounts. It's actually quite hard to string together a detailed pack of lies that stands up to scrutiny.
Indeed. Utterly unconvincing.
When was this book published - I think it was 2012.
When was Kate's book published - 2011?
Oh dear - a gravy train, methinks?
Hmmmm.
Missing People, eh? Nice organization, not!
j.rob- Posts : 2243
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
Under this hypothesis, searching in places close to the house where Ben could have wandered wouldn't necessarily find anything. New searches using the old hypothesis wouldn't work as the range of places explored wouldn't be wide ranging enough. I mean, if the whole afternoon was available - he could be anywhere on that island.
Even so, how much is likely to remain after 20+ years?
Short of a confession by whoever did what, I doubt we'll ever know. Unless there is some fluke digging done by someone. Long shot I know.
I could make the exact same comment about another case.
Even so, how much is likely to remain after 20+ years?
Short of a confession by whoever did what, I doubt we'll ever know. Unless there is some fluke digging done by someone. Long shot I know.
I could make the exact same comment about another case.
Letterwriter- Posts : 69
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
I watched the documentary,iirc it was The Real Crime Stories or something similar.
They attempted to put Steven under hypnosis but he freaked out massively,and seemed to be very upset.i dont remember him at any time saying anything about an accident or anything else,im sure he just kept saying no.
The attempted hypnosis and his reaction seemed very telling.I believe he took Ben on the bike and there was an accident and he covered it up.
They attempted to put Steven under hypnosis but he freaked out massively,and seemed to be very upset.i dont remember him at any time saying anything about an accident or anything else,im sure he just kept saying no.
The attempted hypnosis and his reaction seemed very telling.I believe he took Ben on the bike and there was an accident and he covered it up.
crystalclear- Posts : 11
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Re: The search for Ben Needham continues
crystalclear wrote:I watched the documentary,iirc it was The Real Crime Stories or something similar.
They attempted to put Steven under hypnosis but he freaked out massively,and seemed to be very upset.i dont remember him at any time saying anything about an accident or anything else,im sure he just kept saying no.
The attempted hypnosis and his reaction seemed very telling.I believe he took Ben on the bike and there was an accident and he covered it up.
From what I have read, I get the impression that the men in the group may all have had a hand in covering up what happened. Including even, perhaps. the villa owner who the men were working for. He scarpered from Kos pretty quickly after Ben's disappearance and it would seem died of a heart related condition around about the time that police were again searching the ground in the area. Which may or may not be a coincidence of course.
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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Other Crimes and Mysteries :: Ben Needham - missing from the Greek Island of Kos in 1991
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