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***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

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janner to face prosecution

Post by willowthewisp on 30.06.15 10:05

Sars ref patron saints
Mi 5/6, HRH and the Crown Establishment  notme

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by jeanmonroe on 30.06.15 10:19

What 'next' from Saunders?

"Of course, the McCann's, and their friends, didn't 'outsmart' and 'fool' me! Not for a single second!. I'm not as daft as i am stoopid looking."

"Having said that, I'm strenuously, and, i will be leaving no stone unturned, to find out the names of the, currently serving, MPS officers, that 'donated' £1,000 to GA's lawyer's 'appeal fund', so that i can PROSECUTE THEM, for being 'sick trolls' as it's definitely in the 'public interest' that i do so"

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janner to face prosecution

Post by willowthewisp on 30.06.15 10:35

Jeanmonroe
If you need assistance in finding the Metropolitan Police officer who donated £1,000.00 to the gofundme cause, Aunty Phil will assist you along with Martin **nt, big Jim and Clarence, BHH may be unavailable as he is busy with his new series on BBC 1? liar

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by Guest on 30.06.15 10:53

I sometimes wonder how you Brits survive all of this cloak & dagger stuff rolled into one with the Tommy Cooper show (of fond memories)

British sense of humor must be unparalleled

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by jeanmonroe on 30.06.15 10:58

@Portia wrote:I sometimes wonder how you Brits survive all of this cloak & dagger stuff rolled into one with the Tommy Cooper show (of fond memories)

EASY!............... 'Just like that!"

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by interestedobserver on 30.06.15 11:08

I may be wrong but I think Alison used to play the part
of Stubbs in "The League of Gentlemen".
The resemblance is amazing.

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janner to face prosecution

Post by willowthewisp on 30.06.15 11:23

Interestedobserver
Have a close look at the resemblance with a certain Chief Whip, Michael Gove and our Alison!

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by Doug D on 30.06.15 11:46

SAR @ 9.55
 
You’ve just got to love predictive text:
 
‘peter files’

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by sar on 02.07.15 0:16

@Doug D wrote:SAR @ 9.55
 
You’ve just got to love predictive text:
 
‘peter files’
yeah mate!!!!  You never know who's scanning your post!!

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by Doug D on 07.08.15 6:58

Lord Janner abuse proceedings to start in court
 
Criminal proceedings against Lord Janner over allegations of child sexual abuse in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s are to begin later.
 
The Westminster Magistrates' Court case comes after a review overturned a Crown Prosecution Service decision not to bring charges because of his dementia.
 
Lord Janner is likely to be sent to the Crown Court, which will decide whether he is fit to plead and face a trial.
 
The 87-year-old denies any wrongdoing and his family says he is innocent.
In April, Director of Public Prosecutions Alison Saunders decided it was not in the public interest for Lord Janner - who as Greville Janner was an MP for 27 years - to face a criminal trial on 22 allegations of historical sexual abuse against nine children, because of his severe form of dementia.
 
However, six of the alleged victims asked an independent QC to examine her ruling under the CPS's Victims' Right to Review scheme.
 
If a Crown Court judge decides the former Labour MP for Leicester is fit to plead, a full trial may take place. If not, there will be a so-called trial of the facts, where a jury will decide only if he committed the physical acts of abuse, with no finding of guilt and no conviction.

Analysis
 
By Clive Coleman, legal correspondent
 
Whether Lord Janner is fit to plead - to take part in a full criminal trial - will be decided by a crown court judge. He will consider the medical evidence.
 
If he is not deemed fit he will face what is known as a trial of the facts. There will be no examination of the mental elements of the crime, no finding of guilt and no conviction.
 
It is a relatively rare procedure normally used not in cases where a defendant is said to suffer from dementia, but where they pose a danger and need to be hospitalised for the safety of themselves and others.
 
The court cannot impose a hospitalisation or supervision order unless a jury has found the defendant performed the physical act of the crime.
 
However, Lord Janner can only be sent to face the fitness to plead process and trial of the facts in the Crown Court, if he attends the magistrates court, or his lawyers have instructions to consent on his behalf.
 
If they do not, the prosecution may have to make a little used application to a High Court judge for something called a voluntary bill of indictment. This has the effect of by-passing the magistrates court and delivering the defendant direct to the Crown Court.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33814819

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by Doug D on 07.08.15 12:14

ExaroNews ‏

[ltr]@ExaroNews[/ltr]

  5m5 minutes ago

Lord Janner: chf mag adjourns hearing for seven days at Westminster mags. Defendant must attend.

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by BlueBag on 07.08.15 12:27

@Doug D wrote:ExaroNews ‏



[ltr]@ExaroNews[/ltr]



  5m5 minutes ago

Lord Janner: chf mag adjourns hearing for seven days at Westminster mags. Defendant must attend.
Great start.

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by plebgate on 07.08.15 12:33

Defendant must attend.   YEP, SPOT ON.

Wheelchairs and walking sticks at the ready.

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by BlueBag on 07.08.15 13:09

Defence council has said today he is unfit to attend.

I predict a permanent standoff.

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by Doug D on 07.08.15 14:29

.      
Parallels with Janner case? ‘Trial of Facts’, Options on conviction?
 
No jail sentence for paedophile pensioner who raped schoolboy for seven years
 
5 August 2015 at 4:44pm
 
An 85-year-old man raped a young schoolboy for seven years - but will not face a jail term.
Twenty one charges were found proven against Derek Desmond Butt by a jury at Swansea Crown Court. However, prison is not an option for the widower because he has dementia.
Instead of a usual court case, Butt was subject to a "trial of facts", which tries to find out whether or not something happened.
 
Recorder John Philpotts said there were now only three options available to him:
 
.                         a hospital order
.                         a supervision order
.                         or an absolute discharge - where a finding of guilt is made but no conviction is registered
.      
Jurors were told the boy's harrowing ordeal began in 2006 and lasted until 2013.
They heard Butt regularly turned up at the youngster's house to offer his mother a break by taking her son out to the park or arcade.
However, the boy was instead taken to the paedophile pensioner's house to be abused before being taken out for ice cream as a "treat".
 
The usually happy-go-lucky youngster eventually broke his silence after he was seen bawling his eyes out while on a camping trip.
He was hysterically crying - and I had never ever seen him that upset before.
I asked him what was wrong, he said that this man had been sexually abusing him and he could not tell anyone about it.
– EYEWITNESS
The child later told police that he was abused more than 200 times and the repeated rapes had had lasting physical and psychological effects.
The boy's mother, who cannot be named for legal reasons, said she had no clue her son was being abused by a man who she "completely trusted".
My son later told me he kept quiet for so long because he thought it was normal as it had been happening to him from such a young age.
– BOY'S MOTHER
A jury returned its unanimous verdicts, on 14 counts of raping a child and seven of sexually touching a child, after two and a half hours of discussions.
As the foreman uttered the words "he did the acts" on all counts, the victim's family and friends sobbed in the public gallery.
Butt was arrested in August 2013.
The decision not to stage a full trial was made on Monday after reports by two separate psychiatrists said the defendant was not "fit to stand". The studies said there had been a marked deterioration in the defendant's health since he was originally charged.
Butt, of Morriston, Swansea, was granted conditional bail ahead of the conclusion of his case on Friday.
 
Last updated Wed 5 Aug 2015
 
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2015-08-05/no-jail-sentence-for-85-year-old-man-who-raped-schoolboy-for-seven-years/

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by plebgate on 07.08.15 17:02

That old effer was still abusing the boy up until 2013, but now just 2 years later he has such severe dementia he cannot stand trial.

It makes me so angry reading these things.  

British society - so caring, so many kids charities but more and more kids being abused daily.    Something very wrong in Britain, very, very wrong.


Never trust your children with other people especially old effers volunteering to take your kids out for the day.   ARRRGGHHHHHHHHHHHH.

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by aquila on 07.08.15 17:46

@plebgate wrote:That old effer was still abusing the boy up until 2013, but now just 2 years later he has such severe dementia he cannot stand trial.

It makes me so angry reading these things.  

British society - so caring, so many kids charities but more and more kids being abused daily.    Something very wrong in Britain, very, very wrong.


Never trust your children with other people especially old effers volunteering to take your kids out for the day.   ARRRGGHHHHHHHHHHHH.
It's perversion. There's no cure for it. No amount of psychoanalysis will rid the individual. Cutting their testicles and hormone therapy doesn't achieve anything either. To me, it's a bit like murder, once you've crossed the line, done it once and got away with it you are eligible to do it again.

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by Richard IV on 07.08.15 18:12

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lord-janner-told-must-visit-6211182

Andrew Smith QC said: "Lord Janner is not in attendance. The reason for that submission on his part is that he is unfit to face the court."
A doctor for the defence added producing the elderly peer could cause him to have a 'catastrophic reaction'.
.... so ???
..... and I suppose it doesn`t matter that the kids he is alleged to have buggered might have had a `catastrophic reaction`

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by BlueBag on 07.08.15 21:29

He's not turning up and there will be no court case.

Then he dies.

The fix is in.

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by Harriet94 on 07.08.15 21:41

A catastrophic reaction is a normal in the process of dementia. Voting in the house of lords and claiming expenses is not Imo

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by worriedmum on 07.08.15 22:23

@Harriet94 wrote:A catastrophic reaction is a normal in the process of dementia.  Voting in the house of lords and claiming expenses is not Imo
goodpost

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by Doug D on 11.08.15 18:15

Five hours ago but still nothing on BBC pages:
 
.    ExaroNews ‏@ExaroNews 5h5 hours ago

Lawyers acting for Lord Janner have applied to High Court to overturn ruling that he must attend preliminary hearing on Friday.
.    


.    ExaroNews ‏@ExaroNews 5h5 hours ago

Lord Janner’s lawyers claim that the order by Westminster chief magistrate that he must attend prelim hearing is breach of his human rights.
 
ExaroNews ‏@ExaroNews 4h4 hours ago
Westminster chief magistrate warns: I may have to issue arrest for Lord Janner’s arrest if he loses at High Court and fails to show on Fri.

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by PeterMac on 11.08.15 18:57

Dementia of the rich and famous can be cured with champagne and a ride in a Bentley.
Saunders proved this

Sentence and appeal
Saunders appealed against his prison sentence of five years and three expert witnesses appeared at the Appeal Court. A consultant neurologist acting for the Crown, Dr Perkins, insisted that Saunders was suffering from depression rather than Alzheimer's disease. One of the other expert witnesses, another neurologist, used brain scans and other evidence to indicate that Saunders brain was abnormally small for a man of his age, an observation which he said was consistent with a brain disease diagnosis.

On 16 May 1991, the sentence was reduced to two and a half years. Lord Justice Neill said that he was satisfied that Saunders was suffering from pre-senile dementia associated with Alzheimer's disease, which is incurable.[1] The decision was based on evidence from Dr Patrick Gallway, a forensic pathologist, that Saunders was unable to recite three numbers backwards, was unable to use a door and his assertion that Gerald Ford rather than George Bush was the current President of the United States.[3][5]

Because of his apparent illness, Saunders was released from Ford Open Prison on 28 June 1991 having served only ten months of his sentence. (He would normally have been expected to have served 15 months of the 30-month sentence). After his release, he recovered from the symptoms which had led to the diagnosis. Saunders himself claimed in 1994 that he was never diagnosed with Alzheimer's, When asked by The Independent in 1996, Dr Gallway commented: "In the early stages of Alzheimer's or pre-senile dementia, it can be very difficult to make a diagnosis, so we did not make one; we expressed worries about it." It has been suggested he was in reality suffering from memory loss caused by stress.

Later life
Since then, Saunders has worked as a business consultant, including advising mobile phone retailer Carphone Warehouse from its early days until prior to its flotation. Charles Dunstone, the Chief Executive of Carphone Warehouse, said: "We were young guys who didn’t know what we were doing. He made us think about the questions we ought to ask or the information we ought to look at."

He was later appointed chairman of the executive committee of a US-based multinational petrol credit-card company, Harpur-Gelco.

Saunders also acted as a consultant to Seed International Ltd, a company based in the Cayman Islands. Seed offered investments in a variety of fields including wine, property, oil and gas exploration through Ocean International Marketing, their sales subsidiary with offices in Rotterdam.
I often wonder who paid the fees of the "specialists' who made the diagnosis

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Re: ***Janner WILL be prosecuted - News, 29 Jun 2015*** (was: After Lord Janner I now believe the Establishment DOES shamelessly twist justice to protect its own - STEPHEN GLOVER, The Daily Mail)

Post by sallypelt on 11.08.15 19:04

@PeterMac wrote:Dementia of the rich and famous can be cured with champagne and a ride in a Bentley.
Saunders proved this

Sentence and appeal
Saunders appealed against his prison sentence of five years and three expert witnesses appeared at the Appeal Court. A consultant neurologist acting for the Crown, Dr Perkins, insisted that Saunders was suffering from depression rather than Alzheimer's disease. One of the other expert witnesses, another neurologist, used brain scans and other evidence to indicate that Saunders brain was abnormally small for a man of his age, an observation which he said was consistent with a brain disease diagnosis.

On 16 May 1991, the sentence was reduced to two and a half years. Lord Justice Neill said that he was satisfied that Saunders was suffering from pre-senile dementia associated with Alzheimer's disease, which is incurable.[1] The decision was based on evidence from Dr Patrick Gallway, a forensic pathologist, that Saunders was unable to recite three numbers backwards, was unable to use a door and his assertion that Gerald Ford rather than George Bush was the current President of the United States.[3][5]

Because of his apparent illness, Saunders was released from Ford Open Prison on 28 June 1991 having served only ten months of his sentence. (He would normally have been expected to have served 15 months of the 30-month sentence). After his release, he recovered from the symptoms which had led to the diagnosis. Saunders himself claimed in 1994 that he was never diagnosed with Alzheimer's, When asked by The Independent in 1996, Dr Gallway commented: "In the early stages of Alzheimer's or pre-senile dementia, it can be very difficult to make a diagnosis, so we did not make one; we expressed worries about it." It has been suggested he was in reality suffering from memory loss caused by stress.

Later life
Since then, Saunders has worked as a business consultant, including advising mobile phone retailer Carphone Warehouse from its early days until prior to its flotation. Charles Dunstone, the Chief Executive of Carphone Warehouse, said: "We were young guys who didn’t know what we were doing. He made us think about the questions we ought to ask or the information we ought to look at."

He was later appointed chairman of the executive committee of a US-based multinational petrol credit-card company, Harpur-Gelco.

Saunders also acted as a consultant to Seed International Ltd, a company based in the Cayman Islands. Seed offered investments in a variety of fields including wine, property, oil and gas exploration through Ocean International Marketing, their sales subsidiary with offices in Rotterdam.
I often wonder who paid the fees of the "specialists' who made the diagnosis
Ernest Saunders.............the only person EVER to have made a recovery from Alzheimer's.

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