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'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

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Daniel McArthur...

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by lj on 20.05.15 16:52

@aquila wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:Would it be OK to ask for a cake with images of Bestiality ?

http://www.shockingtimes.co.uk/shock-decision-uk-government-to-legalise-bestiality/
the article is dated 1st April PM, prob April Fools "joke".

I got me fuming I can tell you.
It's not funny.

People who are attracted to sheep were born that way.
big grin
is bestiality being the best you can be?


spit coffee

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by lj on 16.04.16 15:33

Dusting this one off again. 

How is refusing to bake a "gay" wedding cake different from Bruce Springsteen performing?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bruce-springsteen-michigan-anti-lgbt-law_us_5710dde4e4b06f35cb6f3de2


Somehow I don't hear all kind of groups protesting and suing him.



Yesterday I read a interesting question: if a gay baker refuses to bake a cake for a muslim, which side would the liberals take?

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'Gay Cake' case resumes

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.05.16 8:15

The great 'GAY CAKE' case has resumed in the courts.

Ashers Bakery is appealing against a ruling that they should have agreed to bake a cake with the slogan: 'Support Gay Marriage'.

They were said by the courts to have 'discriminated' against those ordering the cake.

Their defence is that they did not discriminate against a homosexual, but objected to the slogan as they believe that God designed man and woman and decreed marriage between a man and a woman as the basis for raising children.     

It is actually about the right of a baker to refuse to bake a cake with a slogan he objects to. The prosecution of Ashers bakery has been carried out with huge financial backing from the government's Equality Commission:    

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ashers-gay-cake-case-will-have-freedom-of-expression-implications-for-uk-say-belfast-christian-bakers-34700082.html

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by Hobs on 10.05.16 18:41

I wonder what would happen if a gay couple went to a muslim baker and asked he bake a cake for them with something suitable on the top as per other gay couple/baker cases?

I would pay good money to watch that one in court.     pop2

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.05.16 19:07

@Hobs wrote:I wonder what would happen if a gay couple went to a muslim baker and asked he bake a cake for them with something suitable on the top as per other gay couple/baker cases?

I would pay good money to watch that one in court.    
What I think is at stake here is the right of anyone who makes something to refuse to endorse, on his product, something he fundamentally, deep down in his heart and conscience, cannot support - as is the case here.
 
Suppose a printer is a recovering alcoholic and now teetotal. Can he refuse to print flyers for the local pub saying: 'Happy Hour - Half Price Drinks 5pm to 7pm'?

What about a printer who is a UKIP supporter. Must he print a banner saying: 'Britain - Stronger in Europe'?

Does a Christian baker have to bake a cake with the message 'Worship Allah! Muhammed - Peace Be Upon Him!'?

Can a T-shirt manufacturer who does not agree with man-made global warming be forced to print thousands of T-shirts bearing the slogan 'Ban Fossil Fuels - Go Green!'?

And so on.     

Homosexual activists, in their pursuit of full, unqualified acceptance of their way of life and their demand for full 'equality' with homosexuals in every conceivable aspect of society, including e.g. such rights as the 'right' to adopt children, have rendered the Equality Commisision as no more than a willing tool of their agenda.

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by BlueBag on 10.05.16 21:06

@Tony Bennett wrote:
What I think is at stake here is the right of anyone who makes something to refuse to endorse, on his product, something he fundamentally, deep down in his heart and conscience, cannot support - as is the case here.
Absolutely.

This is a conscience issue.

1984 thought Police at work.

We are so screwed.

Resist.

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by BarryTheHatchet on 10.05.16 22:34

My understanding of UK consumer law (which may well be incorrect) is that nobody is obliged to sell anything to anybody.  Even a shop with goods on display at a certain price.  All it is, is an "invitation to treat" and there is only a contract when the seller agrees to sell to the buyer, and the buyer subsequently pays.  That is the point where the contract is made.

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.05.16 23:04

@BarryTheHatchet wrote:My understanding of UK consumer law (which may well be incorrect) is that nobody is obliged to sell anything to anybody.  Even a shop with goods on display at a certain price.  All it is, is an "invitation to treat" and there is only a contract when the seller agrees to sell to the buyer, and the buyer subsequently pays.  That is the point where the contract is made.

Yes, from my little knowledge of consumer law I think that's accurate.

It is rare for someone to refuse to sell something to someone who wants to buy it.

In this case, Ashers had no problem selling anyone under the sun say, a jam doughnut, a load of bread or a croissant.

But these two homosexuals wanted a cake to order. And that is surely where the seller has an absolute right to refuse.

At the first hearing, the bakers testified that they had in the past e.g. refused to bake cakes which they considered obscene or otherwise inappropriate.

It is absolutely staggering that this case has used up so much government money and time.   

If this 'gay cake' case were to succeed in confirming that, as the first court said, Ashers were guilty of discrimination, why, it would be open season for any homosexual to walk into Ashers next day and bake a cake with any pro-homosexual slogan on it that they would care to name

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by BarryTheHatchet on 10.05.16 23:12

We had a beech tree that needed felled.  Unfortunately it was very near some other houses, but it had to come down because the centre was rotten and it would eventually have fallen down.  Several woodcutters that we had come to quote for the job, point-blank refused to even consider it.  We ended up paying an absolute fortune to the one who did come to do it.  I would imagine that baking a cake to order would come under the same sort of precedent.

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by Hobs on 11.05.16 2:08

Time and time again we hear of Christian proprietors of bakeries, B&B's and similar being targeted and when they refuse based on religious belief they lose and have to pay costs etc.

Why don't we see or hear of gays targeting muslim proprietors the same way christian ones are?

Is it because they fear a backlash?

A christian isn't going to murder you because they disagree with your sexual orientation?
They aren't likely to protest loudly and vocally (westboro' baptist church being an exception to the loud and vocal protesting)
A christian isn't likely to attack you directly or via a 3rd party, at best you will be politely declined and possibly giving a disproving stare.
You aren't likely to be a victim of christian terrorism.

For once i would like a gay couple to target an islamic bakery or a hotel run by muslims  with muslim laws in place.

I would love watching the courts screw themselves into the ground with that one.

They aren't going to upset the muslims by demanding they do as requested, they don't want to upset the gays who will demand their equal rights.
What to do since they both can't be right and they both can't be wrong.
If they support the gays as previously there will be uproar from muslims, not just here but everywhere screaming islamaphobia etc plus sundry bombings, shootings etc.
If they support the muslims then every christian business that lost will now be able to demand the exact same rights as given to the muslims and demanding compensation etc.

This could go all the way to echr.

A decision has to be made one or the other as the rights of both are incompatible.

Will religion win over sexual identity?
Will sexual identity win over religion?

It would have to be a male couple since in islam lesbianism isn't a killing worthy offense, flogging though will be administered.

How about if we have it with two clearly christian males  and then two clearly muslim males or how about a couple who consist of christian and muslim?

It could keep the courts busy for years.


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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by BarryTheHatchet on 11.05.16 7:02

Sounds like an interesting plot for Eastenders.  Christian and Syed go to the bakery for their wedding cake!

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by BlueBag on 11.05.16 8:29

The liberal mantras are "live and let live"... "tolerance"....

Except when you disagree with what that say.

Thicker skins are the answer.

Robust speech.

Rational debate and argument, no laws saying "you can't say this, you can't say that..."

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by plebgate on 11.05.16 8:40

@BlueBag wrote:The liberal mantras are "live and let live"... "tolerance"....

Except when you disagree with what that say.


Thicker skins are the answer.

Robust speech.

Rational debate and argument, no laws saying "you can't say this, you can't say that..."
you got it right there Bluebag (imo of course) titter

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by Amy Dean on 11.05.16 8:51

I asked my nephew who is gay for his opinion on this case. Troublemakers who need a kick up the rear is the polite version of what he said - and he means the customers with the cake and not the bakers.

I agree with him too.

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by lj on 11.05.16 23:29

An article about the forced tolerance "liberals" would like to see applied to anyone who does not agree with their line.

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GAY CAKE CASE - DAY 2 IN THE COURT OF APPEAL

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.05.16 0:25

The man who tried to order a cake bearing the slogan 'Support Gay Marriage' was a homosexual rights advocate for 'LGBT rights' and a member of the campaign group 'QUEER SPACE':

+++++++++++++++

DAY TWO IN THE COURT OF APPEAL


Christian bakers 'directly discriminated against gay cake customer' - claim Equality Commission

Published 11/05/2016

Gay rights activist Gareth Lee





The Christian owners of a bakery who refused to make a cake with a pro-gay marriage message directly discriminated against their customer, a lawyer for the Equality Commission said.

Directors at the Ashers Baking Company in Belfast have insisted they did not know what the sexual orientation of the gay rights campaigner was when declining his order.


The McArthur family, who run Ashers, are seeking to overturn a court judgment which found they acted unlawfully by rejecting the order placed by LGBT activist Gareth Lee in 2014 based on their religious conviction that the slogan was sinful.

Commission lawyer Robin Allen QC said: "Mr Lee wanted to be associated with the class of person who have same sex orientation by purchasing this cake.

"He was not allowed to do that by the defendants.

"They would have allowed him to be associated with persons of opposite sex orientation by, for instance, letting him have a cake which did not have the word gay on it."

He said it was very easy to say the case involving a £36.50 cake was entirely trivial but the legal profession recognised its gravity.

"If you are gay you have lived in a world of prejudice for a very long time and you want to be able to engage with the world without it mattering a hoot what your sexual orientation is."

He said the McArthur family personally objected to the idea of civil marriage between same sex partners.

"They were objecting to the use of a particular sexual orientation in that message and that is what made it direct discrimination, because of that objection."

Ashers' owners were ordered to pay £500 damages after a county court judge ruled they directly discriminated against Mr Lee in refusing to make him a cake featuring Sesame Street puppets Bert and Ernie with the phrase Support Gay Marriage for a private function marking International Day Against Homophobia two years ago.

Mr Lee, a member of the LGBT advocacy group Queer Space, paid the £36.50 in full at Ashers' Belfast city centre branch, but received a phone call two days later and was told the company could not fulfil his order.
David Scoffield QC represented the McArthur family at Belfast's Court of Appeal and said the person who took the order had no idea what Mr Lee's sexual orientation was and had never heard of Queer Space.

He said the alleged discrimination was not against Mr Lee, it was against the message, but the law only covered harm caused to an individual.

Mr Allen said conscience had to be accepted at face value by the court but its application risked making the law defunct.

He said: "If you do it for evangelical Free Presbyterians saying they cannot supply goods you have to do it for all the other 148 accepted religious beliefs in Northern Ireland and then some."

Mr Allen added: "At that point the prohibition on discrimination on sexual orientation becomes a dead letter. The prohibition on discrimination...on political opinions becomes a dead letter."

Ashers, a name with biblical connotations, has six branches in Northern Ireland.

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by Richard IV on 12.05.16 12:34

@Tony Bennett wrote:The man who tried to order a cake bearing the slogan 'Support Gay Marriage' was a homosexual rights advocate for 'LGBT rights' and a member of the campaign group 'QUEER SPACE':

+++++++++++++++

DAY TWO IN THE COURT OF APPEAL


Christian bakers 'directly discriminated against gay cake customer' - claim Equality Commission

Published 11/05/2016

Gay rights activist Gareth Lee





The Christian owners of a bakery who refused to make a cake with a pro-gay marriage message directly discriminated against their customer, a lawyer for the Equality Commission said.

Directors at the Ashers Baking Company in Belfast have insisted they did not know what the sexual orientation of the gay rights campaigner was when declining his order.


The McArthur family, who run Ashers, are seeking to overturn a court judgment which found they acted unlawfully by rejecting the order placed by LGBT activist Gareth Lee in 2014 based on their religious conviction that the slogan was sinful.

Commission lawyer Robin Allen QC said: "Mr Lee wanted to be associated with the class of person who have same sex orientation by purchasing this cake.

"He was not allowed to do that by the defendants.

"They would have allowed him to be associated with persons of opposite sex orientation by, for instance, letting him have a cake which did not have the word gay on it."

He said it was very easy to say the case involving a £36.50 cake was entirely trivial but the legal profession recognised its gravity.

"If you are gay you have lived in a world of prejudice for a very long time and you want to be able to engage with the world without it mattering a hoot what your sexual orientation is."

He said the McArthur family personally objected to the idea of civil marriage between same sex partners.

"They were objecting to the use of a particular sexual orientation in that message and that is what made it direct discrimination, because of that objection."

Ashers' owners were ordered to pay £500 damages after a county court judge ruled they directly discriminated against Mr Lee in refusing to make him a cake featuring Sesame Street puppets Bert and Ernie with the phrase Support Gay Marriage for a private function marking International Day Against Homophobia two years ago.

Mr Lee, a member of the LGBT advocacy group Queer Space, paid the £36.50 in full at Ashers' Belfast city centre branch, but received a phone call two days later and was told the company could not fulfil his order.
David Scoffield QC represented the McArthur family at Belfast's Court of Appeal and said the person who took the order had no idea what Mr Lee's sexual orientation was and had never heard of Queer Space.

He said the alleged discrimination was not against Mr Lee, it was against the message, but the law only covered harm caused to an individual.

Mr Allen said conscience had to be accepted at face value by the court but its application risked making the law defunct.

He said: "If you do it for evangelical Free Presbyterians saying they cannot supply goods you have to do it for all the other 148 accepted religious beliefs in Northern Ireland and then some."

Mr Allen added: "At that point the prohibition on discrimination on sexual orientation becomes a dead letter. The prohibition on discrimination...on political opinions becomes a dead letter."

Ashers, a name with biblical connotations, has six branches in Northern Ireland.
Smug git.  Why do they have to force their ways onto society.  They only get themselves disliked. Before all this activism, gays lived quietly in society and were liked.  Much the same as religion - no one knew or really cared what religion other people were; it was personal and everyone accepted that. Mind you the above case isn`t England is it.  Things tend to get more heated in NI.

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by BlueBag on 12.05.16 15:03

@worriedmum wrote:Why wouldn't you just take your custom elsewhere?  dontgetit
Because they really didn't want a cake.

They wanted something else.

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by Richard IV on 12.05.16 18:52

It`s so obvious it was planned in order to get attention and provoke dissension. In your face gay activism; the "I know my rights" brigade.

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by BarryTheHatchet on 12.05.16 21:36

And unfortunately they do.  Where the bakery made a big mistake was to accept the order and take their money.  That's where the point of contract was made, and now they are in breach of said contract.  If they had just said "no" at the outset, then I don't think there's much that the Queer Space people could have done about it.

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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by JohnyT on 12.05.16 22:13

......he refused to bake a cake.......get over it and take your custom elsewhere...it's not rocket science............some people are too trivial and always want to feel like the victim!
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Re: 'Homophobic bigot', Daniel McArthur, defendant in Court case (26 March 2015) brought by the Equalities Commission, explains his case to hundreds - and gets a huge round of applause

Post by Tony Bennett on 13.05.16 0:00

@BarryTheHatchet wrote:And unfortunately they do.  Where the bakery made a big mistake was to accept the order and take their money.  That's where the point of contract was made, and now they are in breach of said contract.  If they had just said "no" at the outset, then I don't think there's much that the Queer Space people could have done about it.
But this isn't being fought a 'breach of contract' case. I doubt if they would have got too far with bringing a case or breach of contract in the Small Claims Court, after all, they got their money back, so what would be the point?

What the homosexuals have got is the weight, might and money of the entire Equalities Commission behind them.

That's what's really seems so unfair about this case

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