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6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

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6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by Tony Bennett on 05.03.15 10:54

SIX Major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner


On the BBC Crimewatch McCann Special shown on 14 October 2013, the revelation by DCI Andy Redwood that ‘the centre of his team’s focus’ was now the alleged ‘sighting’ of a man and child by the Smith family was preceded by his claim that he and his team were ‘almost certain’ that the man said to have been seen by the McCanns’ close friend Jane Tanner had now been identified.

It is suggested that DCI Redwood’s claim about this ‘man from the creche’ are false, were designed to deliberately deceive the British public, and therefore amount to perverting the course of justice and serious misconduct in public office. Moreover, DCI Nicola Wall, the current Senior Investigating Officer, who replaced Redwood late last year, has not publicly repudiated Redwood’s claims. .
Here is the relevant extract from the transcript of the programme:
TRANSCRIPT
MATTHEW AMROLIWALA (Crimewatch presenter)

The work of the detectives in receiving thousands of documents paid off when they were finally given the green light to launch a full-blown enquiry.

DRAMATIC MUSIC

What follows is the result of this painstaking new investigation by Scotland Yard elite detectives: the truest account yet of what really happened that night.

SOUNDS AND VIDEO OF WAVES

Tell me now about the crime scene itself…

REDWOOD

Yes, I mean, the family, with their three children were in Apartment G5A. This was on the edge of a sort of contained area, which was known as the Ocean Club, within which there was a Tapas Bar and some swimming pools and tennis courts, but the actual apartment where they were staying was – was outside that perimeter area - and it was effectively, from front and back, accessible to the public.

The front door was accessed via a car park and then the rear entrance was a side set of steps that led up and into a rear balcony area that went into and through patio doors.

Madeleine and her siblings Sean and Amelie were staying in the front bedroom which looked out onto the front car park – um, Madeline was in a bed, and the two children were in travel cots in between – between Madeleine’s bed, and the bed that was nearest to the window.

The careful and critical analysis of the timeline has been absolutely key. Primarily, we’re focused on the area between 8.30 and 10. We know that at 8.30, that was the time that Mr and Mrs McCann went down to the Tapas area for their dinner and we know that at around 10pm that night was when Mrs McCann found that Madeleine was missing.

AMROLIWALA

One of the most pivotal events on the timeline was Jane Tanner’s sighting of a man carrying a child. He was walking in this spot…

PICTURES OF ROAD OUTSIDE G5A ]

…just metres from where Madeleine had been sleeping.

DRAMATIC MUSIC

This man was widely thought to have been Madeleine’s abductor, but the team was taking nothing for granted.

REDWOOD

One of the things that we picked up very quickly was the fact that there was a night crèche that was operating from the main Ocean Club reception – and  8 families had left 11 children in thereand one particular family we spoke to us gave us information that was really interesting and exciting. In fact, I would say it was – it was a revelation moment when, having discussed with them what they were doing on the night, they themselves believed that they could be the Tanner sighting.

AMROLIWALA

The British father had collected his two-year-old daughter from the crèche. He had been walking near the McCanns’ apartment.

PHOTOGRAPH SHOWN

This is the actual photograph taken by Metropolitan Police Officers of the man dressed in the kind of clothes he wore on holiday. This image was compared to the artist’s impression [based on Jane Tanner’s statement].

CRECHEMAN AND TANNERMAN MERGED SO THAT THEY APPEARED TO BE VERY SIMILAR

It is uncannily similar – and we know from the pyjamas that their child was wearing

PHOTO OF CHILD’S PYJAMAS SHOWN; THE PYJAMA BOTTOMS ARE BLUE AND PINK

 that it is, again, uncannily striking, the similarity.

AMROLIWALA

So, what you’re saying is that the timeline that everyone was working on for four years in this case…was wrong?

REDWOOD

     We’re almost certain, now, that this sighting is not the abductor. But very importantly, what it says is that from 9.15, we are able to allow the clock…

TICKING CLOCK

…to move forward and in doing so, things that have not been quite as significant or received quite the same degree of attention are now the centre of our focus.

AMROLIWALA

This was an enormous discovery for the team: an innocent explanation for the suspect who’s been at the centre of the case for six years.


Several features of this account by DCI Redwood, I suggest, wholly lack credibility, as follows:

1. Why has the man only come forward after over 6 years?
According to DCI Redwood, the man - I will call him ‘Creche Man’ - was in Praia da Luz the night that Madeleine was reported missing. He is alleged to have been using the Ocean Club crèche. He was therefore in Praia da Luz that week. He was also using one of the facilities of the Ocean Club. The McCanns were also using the facilities of the Ocean Club that week. It is very possible that the man may have been on the same Mark Warner holiday on which the McCanns had booked.
He was therefore in Praia da Luz on the following day (4 May) when an international media storm over the alleged abduction developed that day. That day he would have been aware of:
hundreds of police in the village
hundreds of villagers out searching the area
international camera crews descending on the village
blanket coverage of the alleged abduction on the news media.


How credible is it that, having allegedly seen a man on his own, carrying a child dressed only in pyjamas, in an area which he knew very well was very near the Ocean Club, he did not immediately report his sighting to the police that very day?


The searches continued day after day. The international media storm continued and escalated. The police were asking for information. It was clear that the story was that someone had abducted Madeleine McCann. The time of the alleged abduction repeatedly given out on the TV media and the newspapers was somewhere between 9.00pm and 10.00pm. Again, how credible is it that ‘Creche Man’, knowing he had seen a man with a child in pyjamas at around 9.15pm near the Ocean club, did nothing to report his sighting?
Furthermore, on 25 May 2007, the Portuguese Police released a description of a possible abductor. The following day, Dr Gerald McCann made a statement in the village in front of the world’s press and TV, flanked by their newly-appointed public relations chief, Clarence Mitchell, the Director of Prime Minister Tony Blair’s 40-strong Media Monitoring Unit. Huge publicity was given to a statement read out by Dr McCann, his words being repeatedly broadcast on all the main media. In his statement, he made these comments about the alleged abductor (which we now know was based solely on the claims of a sighting made by the McCanns’ close friend who was on holiday with them - Jane Tanner):
 
Dr McCann said: 


“We are very much... welcome the decision of the Portuguese authorities to release details of a man seen by a witness, here in Praia da Luz, on Thursday the 3rd of May - the night of Madeleine's disappearance…
We feel sure that this sighting of a man, with what appeared to be a child in his arms, is both significant and relevant to Madeleine's abduction and we would appeal, once again, to anyone who may have seen him or anything else suspicious, on or around the 3rd of May, to come forward and tell the police.


For instance was this man seen anywhere else in or near the town with a child, or what appeared to be a child? Which direction was he heading in? Did he have a vehicle?


Whether you're a local resident or a holidaymaker who has since returned home from Portugal, any information, no matter how unimportant you may think it could be, may be vital in helping the Portuguese and British police to find our daughter.


Once again, how credible is it that ‘Creche Man’, knowing that a man had been seen apparently carrying a child, and that the police wanted to identify him, did not respond immediately to this broadcast by contacting the police?


Then, over the next 6 years, there has been one appeal after another for information about who might have abducted Madeleine. There have been:

  • numerous press conferences and appeals by the McCanns and their spokespersons

  • numerous interviews with the McCanns 

  • ‘viral videos’ and other internet appeals for information

  • numerous shorter or longer documentaries

  • appearances by the McCanns on celebrity shows such as Oprah Winfrey and Piers Morgan

  • newspaper headlines about Madeleine in the tens of thousands.

How credible is it that ‘Creche Man’ continued to ignore all of these, and more, highly publicised appeals for information, yet did nothing?


How credible is it that he only realised, 6 years later, that he might be the man seen by Jane Tanner after he was approached by DCI Redwood?

2.  What was ‘Creche Man’ doing taking his 2-year-old child back to his holiday apartrment clad only in pyjamas on a cold dark early May night? 


DCI Redwood in the Crimewatch programme referred to ‘8 families’ using the night crèche that evening, with 11 children in the facility.
It is reasonable to assume that, in the case of a 2-year-old child, ‘Creche Man’ was accompanied on that holiday by either his wife or partner (and mother of the child). It is overwhelmingly likely that he was the child’s father.
At 9.15pm (the time of the alleged Jane Tanner sighting), it was already dark. The weather that week had turned colder on Tuesday and the outside temperature was only around 13C-14C (55F-57F).
How credible is it that this man would walk some distance from the Ocean Club to his apartment…

  • on his own, without his wife/partner
  • not using a buggy/pushchair (buggies were available from the Ocean Club)
  • his child dressed only in pyjamas, and nothing on her feet, and
  • with no blanket, coat or any other warm covering to keep out the cold?

I suggest it is simply not credible.
It is also right to say that it is clear from the BBC Crimewatch transcript that this man (if he exists) had his wife or a partner with him. DCI Redwood speaks in the broadcast of eight families leaving eleven children in the might crèche. He then goes on to refer to:
a) and one particular family we spoke to
b) having discussed with them
c) what they were doing on the night
d) they themselves believed
e) that they could be the ‘Tanner sighting’.
The question remains therefore: what can account for this man walking home on a cold dark night with no buggy, a 2-year-old dressed only in pyjamas and his wife/partner not accompanying him? It wholly lacks credibility.

3. Why, if the account of ‘Creche Man’ is correct, was he not walking back to his apartment by the shortest route?
See close-up below and second picture below that.
This aerial photograph (north at the top, south at the bottom) shows the location of:
* the McCanns’ apartment  (top of photo, middle, last block on the left of the road running northm which is the Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins)
* the Ocean Club reception area, where the night crèche was apparently running that night), just south of the McCanns’ apartment, an oblong building to the right of the swimming pool, centre of photo.
The evidence of Jane Tanner was very clear on one point. She was walking up the road referred to (south to north – Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins). Near the top of the road, she saw a man walking left to right along the top road, i.e. west to east. That road is Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva).
If ‘Creche Man’ wanted to get home as quickly as possible from the Ocean Club reception building, he would have taken exactly the same route as Jane Tanner did, that is, walk north up the Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins. It makes no sense for him to have walked round three-and-half sides of a rectangle to end up walking west to east along the Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva and past the top of the Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins. He would have walked some 300-400 yards to do the 75-yard journey from the Ocean Club reception building to the top of the road. And this on a cold dark night when his child was clad only in pyjamas?   


This further point further dents the credibility of the whole story.


4. Why isn’t ‘Creche Man’ named?
It would have been possible, indeed highly desirable under the circumstances, in the interests of transparency, to have named this witness. DCI Redwood failed to do so. There is no way therefore that anyone can check whether Redwood’s claim is borne out e.g. whether it is consistent with any records kept by Mark Warner of who was in the crèche that night.


5.  The ‘photograph’ of Creche Man shown on Crimewatch – and the clothes he was wearing
The photograph of Creche Man shown on Crimewatch is blurred, probably deliberately so that no-one can recognise him. In the photograph, he is shown wearing a blue jacket and light grey trousers. We are then solemnly told that the photograph shows him ‘dressed in the kind of clothes he wore on holiday’. This image of him is then compared to a sketch drawn by Melissa Little, on behalf of the McCanns, of the man Jane Tanner claimed to have seen. It was not published until 5½ months after Madeleine was reported missing. The Crimewatch presenter, Matthew Amroliwala, then intones that the two images are ‘uncannily similar’.
At this point, it is necessary to remind ourselves of what Jane Tanner said about the man she had seen.
On 10 May 2007, in her second police witness statement, she gave these very specific details about the man’s clothes: 
“Confronted with the information that the [tracker] dog teams had followed/followed the scent trails in which, purportedly, MBM had not passed the intersection where she indicated a man carried a child, she affirmed, immediately, that she was not lying, maintaining the honesty of her initial version…
“It was strange…how [the man] was dressed, the trousers were slightly wide their entire length, being straight. They were as to colour, identical to ‘corticine’ [a type of floor covering], ‘chino’ [Chinese] style. As for the coat it was dark coloured, she was not able to specify what, seeming to be the same material as the trousers, it being a type of ‘anorak’.”
Elsewhere Jane Tanner has described the trousers as ‘mustard’-coloured’.
As she is so specific, before the police can be ‘almost certain’ (to quote DCI Redwood) that ‘Creche Man’ is the man allegedly seen by Jane Tanner, they would surely need to establish beyond a reasonable doubt (a) that the man had mustard- or corticite-coloured trousers whilst on holiday and, more specifically, whether he was wearing them on the night of 3 May.
He is shown in the ‘photograph’ wearing pale grey trousers, not mustard- or corticite-coloured trousers.
Also, we are not told that these were the clothes he wore that night, nor even that they were the clothes that he was wearing on that holiday. We are merely told that these are supposed to be ‘the kind of clothes’ he wore on holiday.
To put it bluntly, this is unconvincing. Moreover, in Melissa Little’s sketch of the man said to have been seen by Jane Tanner, the man is shown wearing a long coat which is brown, not a shorter jacket which is blue, as in the ‘Creche Man’ photo. This again does not appear to justify Matthew Amroliwala’s claim on Crimewatch that the two images are ‘uncannily similar’.
6.  The pyjamas belonging to Creche Man’s daughter - and their colour        
On Crimewatch, viewers were shown a pair of pyjamas. The accompanying commentary said:  “…we know from the pyjamas that their child was wearing that it is, again, uncannily striking, the similarity”.
The first thing we notice about this is, once again, the sheer vagueness of the statement. The programme does not actually tell us that these were the actual pyjamas worn by the two-year-old child. Maybe we are meant to think that.
But what was shown on the programme could be:
a)  the actual pyjamas worn by the 2-year-old in 2007 (the child would have been 8 or 9 by the time the programme was aired). It seems highly unlikely, though, that he would have kept those lying in a drawer somewhere for 6½ years
b)  a pair of pyjamas bought by the father, or by the BBC, or by DCI Redwood, perhaps based on the father’s recollections of what pyjamas his daughter wore 6½ years earlier, or perhaps based on photos of her in her pyjamas that he took 6½ years previously.


DCI Redwood does not inform the viewers which of these two they might be. He simply leaves the viewers to guess.      
But then, having again used the words that the pyjamas are ‘uncannily similar’ to the ones Madeleine was said to have been wearing that night, in fact they were not.
Madeleine’s pyjamas (tops and bottoms) were a very pale pink, almost white-looking, not with a pattern on them, but with a few markings.
Jane Tanner’s description of the pyjamas she claimed to have seen were as follows: “She thought that it was a female child because the pyjamas were a light colour (seemingly pink to her)”.
But when we see what DCI Redwood showed us on the Crimewatch programme, it was:

  • pyjama bottoms that were blue (not white or pink) with a very distinct pattern of bold pink symbols on them
  • a darkish, or ‘salmon’ pink top, and
  • what looks like a white towel.  



Thus the evidence about Creche Man’s pyjamas is scarcely as convincing (‘uncannily similar’) as purported by DCI Redwood on the Crimewatch programme.
 

[ NOTE: At this point, it is of interest to note what Jane Tanner told police during her second interview. Here is an extract from her witness statement:
Subsequently, she had no doubts that it could have been MBM because, through conversations with Fiona Payne [FP] in which she [FP] described the pyjamas that MBM had worn that night, which coincided with those she had seen. Questioned why she had not commented to KH what she had seen that night, namely that she had seen a male individual who carried a child with pink pyjamas, she relates that she always avoided making this comment to the McCanns so as not to torture them more in their suffering”.
This can be exposed as untruthful, as the senior members of Operation Grange must surely recognise. The truth is that the McCanns and their friends wrote down two timelines of the evening’s events and gave that timeline to the police when they arrived late on the evening Madeleine was reported missing (3 May). These timelines both made specific reference to Jane Tanner having seen a man carrying a child. The first timeline said:
9.20/5 Jane checked 5D. Sees stranger & child.
The second timeline said:   
9.20pm Jane Tanner check 5D. Sees stranger walking carrying a child
Moreover, these two timelines, written out by the McCanns’ friend Dr Russell O’Brien, were written on the ripped-out cover of Madeleine McCann’s Activity Sticker Book. It seems certain that this ripped-out cover must have been given to Dr O’Brien for the specific purpose of writing out these timelines. Jane Tanner’s claim that she ‘avoided’ saying anything to either Gerry or Kate McCann about the ‘stranger and child’ she had seen is so wholly lacking in credibility that we may with confidence say that she was lying. ]  
  

Summary
Police officers have a duty to tell the truth and go where the evidence leads them, without fear or favour. The many major queries about the evidence of the Smith family, doubts about how they could have produced the two e-fits shown of different-looking men, and mow these queries about whether ‘Creche Man’ really existed, or whether his story is true, all contribute to serious doubts as to whether Operation Grange is an honest enquiry into the truth.

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by cbeagle on 05.03.15 14:49

having allegedly seen a man on his own, carrying a child dressed only in pyjamas
‘Creche Man’, knowing he had seen a man carrying a child clad only in pyjamas


This is somewhat confusing, Creche Man didn't see anyone, he was the person carrying a child.

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by Tony Bennett on 05.03.15 15:02

@cbeagle wrote:having allegedly seen a man on his own, carrying a child dressed only in pyjamas
‘Creche Man’, knowing he had seen a man carrying a child clad only in pyjamas


This is somewhat confusing, Creche Man didn't see anyone, he was the person carrying a child.
That's quite right, thank you; I've been able to edit the post and change that sentence to read:

Once again, how credible is it that ‘Creche Man’, knowing that a man had been seen apparently carrying a child, and that the police wanted to identify him, did not respond immediately to this broadcast by contacting the police?

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by ultimaThule on 05.03.15 16:25

The night creche was situated above the Ocean Club's 24-hour reception on the Rua Direita and did not operate out of the one-storey building which fronted the entrance to the enclosed swimming pool/Tapas Bar complex.

No mention or description of 'Tannerman' was released to the public until 25 May 2007 and it's unlikely that any entirely innocent holidaymakers carrying their children home on the night of 3 May would necessarily associate themselves with this alleged sighting, nor with the artist's impression of 'Eggman/Tannerman' which was not released until 26 October 2007. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

With regard to "4. Why isn’t ‘Creche Man’ named?", as the Ocean Club's night creche records for 3 May 2007 have not been published, even if a name were to be given it cannot be checked by those on this or any other forum nor, more importantly, can the McCanns' access the name or the records despite their audacious attempt to use the provisions of Wardship to prise information from the police,

Imo all of those 8 families who, we are told, used that particular facility on the night in question are fully entitled to have their privacy guarded to forestall visits from non-uncle Brian Kennedy/other agents acting for the McCanns.

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by BlueBag on 05.03.15 17:04

Why exactly was he carrying the child like the dead child in the 1931 Frankenstein movie?



The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous.

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by ultimaThule on 05.03.15 17:26

To my mind what is absolutely ridiculous is that, despite the vast sums of public money spent on it, this case still hasn't been concluded.

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by Tony Bennett on 05.03.15 18:42

@ultimaThule wrote:The night creche was situated above the Ocean Club's 24-hour reception on the Rua Direita and did not operate out of the one-storey building which fronted the entrance to the enclosed swimming pool/Tapas Bar complex.

REPLY: I was not sure which, but actually, if that is correct - I assume you mean the Luz Ocean Club at 44 Rua Direita, shown as 'RECEPTION' on the map below - that makes my point even stronger:



The Luz Ocean Club is EAST of where Jane Tanner was when she said she saw 'Tannerman'. That was at the top of the Rua da Gentil Martins, up which Jane Tanner says she was walking. She says she saw a man walking EAST along the Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva.

So, to recap, if the creche was meeting at the Luz Ocean Club on the Rua Direita, as you point out, 'Crecheman' would have to walk...

...SOUTH-WEST along Rue Direita...

...CARRY ON walking south-west along Rua Direita instead of turning up the Rua da Gentil Martins (where the other Ocean Club reception area is)...

...THEN TURN NORTH after passing the Ocean Club complex...  

...and finally start walking EAST along the Rue da Agistinho da Silva untilk seen by 'Creche Man' at about 9.15pm on 3 May.

I estimate that might be well over half-a-mile and probably 10 to 15 minutes walking - with a child in thin pyjamas on a cold dark night.

Now that you've placed the night creche on the Rua Direita, the whole story lacks credibility to a greater extent than I'd realised.

No mention or description of 'Tannerman' was released to the public until 25 May 2007 and it's unlikely that any entirely innocent holidaymakers carrying their children home on the night of 3 May would necessarily associate themselves with this alleged sighting, nor with the artist's impression of 'Eggman/Tannerman' which was not released until 26 October 2007. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

REPLY: Sorry, not buying that one, ultimaThule.

Yes, the description of Tannerman on 25 & 26 May was vague. Yes, Melissa Little's sketch wasn't done until 26 October (and why not?, one may ask). But - please - the whole world knew that a nasty abductor had walked away from Apartment G5A at between 9pm and 10pm on 3 May. Appeal after appeal was made on nationa TV for information. Are you going to excuse this man SIX whole years of not coming forward? - until DCI Redwood goes to see him? (If he exists at all) 


With regard to "4. Why isn’t ‘Creche Man’ named?", as the Ocean Club's night creche records for 3 May 2007 have not been published, even if a name were to be given it cannot be checked by those on this or any other forum nor, more importantly, can the McCanns' access the name or the records despite their audacious attempt to use the provisions of Wardship to prise information from the police,

IMO all of those 8 families who, we are told, used that particular facility on the night in question are fully entitled to have their privacy guarded to forestall visits from non-uncle Brian Kennedy/other agents acting for the McCanns.

REPLY: That is certainly not my biggest point.

But we have a very strange history of people taking a long time to come forward with information in this case:

Martin Smith - 13-day delay before reporting 'Smithman'

Martin Smith again - 11-day delay before reporting 'Smithman = Gerry McCann'

British banker - over 2 years before reporting that an Aussie Victoria Beckham-lookalike had asked him for her new daughter on Barcelona dockside

Dr Kate McCann - months before she came up with the 'gust of wind blew the door shut' line

Smithman e-fits not passed by McCanns to the police for a long time

Smithman e-fits passed to DCI Redwood in August 2011 but not by used by him for over 2 years

And now 'Creche Man' waiting for 6 years before saying: 'Cor! How stupid! If only I'd realised 6 years earlier that I might be Tannerman, you lot could have made Smithman the 'centre of your focus' six years ago! Sorr-ee!"  

 

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by Guest on 05.03.15 18:46

[quote="ultimaThule"]The night creche was situated above the Ocean Club's 24-hour reception on the Rua Direita and did not operate out of the one-storey building which fronted the entrance to the enclosed swimming pool/Tapas Bar complex.

No mention or description of 'Tannerman' was released to the public until 25 May 2007 and it's unlikely that any entirely innocent holidaymakers carrying their children home on the night of 3 May would necessarily associate themselves with this alleged sighting, nor with the artist's impression of 'Eggman/Tannerman' which was not released until 26 October 2007. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

With regard to "4. Why isn’t ‘Creche Man’ named?", as the Ocean Club's night creche records for 3 May 2007 have not been published, even if a name were to be given it cannot be checked by those on this or any other forum nor, more importantly, can the McCanns' access the name or the records despite their audacious attempt to use the provisions of Wardship to prise information from the police,

Imo all of those 8 families who, we are told, used that particular facility on the night in question are fully entitled to have their privacy guarded to forestall visits from non-uncle Brian Kennedy/other agents acting for the McCanns.[/quote]

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by Guest on 05.03.15 18:48

[quote="BlueBag"]Why exactly was he carrying the child like the dead child in the 1931 Frankenstein movie?

[img]http://www.lassothemovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Frankenstein-3.jpg[/img]

The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous.[/quote]


Because this is the only way to carry dead children maybe? If they are alive, you carry them close to your heart, instinctively

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by Tony Bennett on 05.03.15 18:59

@Portia wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:The night creche was situated above the Ocean Club's 24-hour reception on the Rua Direita and did not operate out of the one-storey building which fronted the entrance to the enclosed swimming pool/Tapas Bar complex.

No mention or description of 'Tannerman' was released to the public until 25 May 2007 and it's unlikely that any entirely innocent holidaymakers carrying their children home on the night of 3 May would necessarily associate themselves with this alleged sighting, nor with the artist's impression of 'Eggman/Tannerman' which was not released until 26 October 2007. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

With regard to "4. Why isn’t ‘Creche Man’ named?", as the Ocean Club's night creche records for 3 May 2007 have not been published, even if a name were to be given it cannot be checked by those on this or any other forum nor, more importantly, can the McCanns' access the name or the records despite their audacious attempt to use the provisions of Wardship to prise information from the police,

Imo all of those 8 families who, we are told, used that particular facility on the night in question are fully entitled to have their privacy guarded to forestall visits from non-uncle Brian Kennedy/other agents acting for the McCanns.

thumbsup
@ Portia

How strange!

You were the quickest member of CMOMM off the mark when, on 15 October 2013, the day after the Crimewatch McCann Special, you posted this OP, under the thread title: 'Innocent British Father':

+++++

QUOTE

Portia, Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:27 pm

That's nice for Jane, she's off the hook now, for the time being

But:

Who is this guy with the funny peasant-type blouse split at the side;


* Is he really a father picking up his child (can we please see the night creche records of May 3rd 2007 to convince us)?

* Is he really British?
* Is he really innocent? How do we know?

When, where, why did he come forward? Police records please to convince us.

Did anyone confirm his story? Records/evidence please.



  1. Why did he keep a childs' pijama's for 6 years after she'd undoubtedly outgrown them?

  2. Why did he keep that funny jacket for the same time?

  3. Why shoes ditto?


Can we be sure we're told the truth, and were're not presented with a MI5 or SY plant/patsy/fake?

How?


UNQUOTE

+++++++++++++++++++++++

COMMENT:  Top marks for being (a) so quick off the mark and (b) asking all the right questions.

In fact I would rate it as your best-ever post on this forum

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by BlueBag on 05.03.15 20:40

Is there any way to get the name of the supposed Crecheman from the Police?

They need to put up or shut up.

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by G-Unit on 05.03.15 21:46

Obviously rubbish; he was going the wrong way. A detective from 'the best police force in the world' has made SY look completely stupid by not checking the layout of the Ocean Club and Praia da Luz, IMO.

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by kinell on 05.03.15 21:53

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Portia wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:The night creche was situated above the Ocean Club's 24-hour reception on the Rua Direita and did not operate out of the one-storey building which fronted the entrance to the enclosed swimming pool/Tapas Bar complex.

No mention or description of 'Tannerman' was released to the public until 25 May 2007 and it's unlikely that any entirely innocent holidaymakers carrying their children home on the night of 3 May would necessarily associate themselves with this alleged sighting, nor with the artist's impression of 'Eggman/Tannerman' which was not released until 26 October 2007. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

With regard to "4. Why isn’t ‘Creche Man’ named?", as the Ocean Club's night creche records for 3 May 2007 have not been published, even if a name were to be given it cannot be checked by those on this or any other forum nor, more importantly, can the McCanns' access the name or the records despite their audacious attempt to use the provisions of Wardship to prise information from the police,

Imo all of those 8 families who, we are told, used that particular facility on the night in question are fully entitled to have their privacy guarded to forestall visits from non-uncle Brian Kennedy/other agents acting for the McCanns.

thumbsup
@ Portia

How strange!

You were the quickest member of CMOMM off the mark when, on 15 October 2013, the day after the Crimewatch McCann Special, you posted this OP, under the thread title: 'Innocent British Father':

+++++

QUOTE

Portia, Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:27 pm

That's nice for Jane, she's off the hook now, for the time being

But:

Who is this guy with the funny peasant-type blouse split at the side;


* Is he really a father picking up his child (can we please see the night creche records of May 3rd 2007 to convince us)?

* Is he really British?
* Is he really innocent? How do we know?

When, where, why did he come forward? Police records please to convince us.

Did anyone confirm his story? Records/evidence please.



  1. Why did he keep a childs' pijama's for 6 years after she'd undoubtedly outgrown them?

  2. Why did he keep that funny jacket for the same time?

  3. Why shoes ditto?


Can we be sure we're told the truth, and were're not presented with a MI5 or SY plant/patsy/fake?

How?


UNQUOTE

+++++++++++++++++++++++

COMMENT:  Top marks for being (a) so quick off the mark and (b) asking all the right questions.

In fact I would rate it as your best-ever post on this forum

I think you mean ultimaThule wrote the best-ever post on this forum because all Portia did was stick her thumb up big grin

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by Tony Bennett on 05.03.15 22:21

@kinell wrote:
I think you mean ultimaThule wrote the best-ever post on this forum because all Portia did was stick her thumb up big grin

Portia is, of course, one of the greatest enigmas on this forum. If not the greatest.

She says she loves to solve mysteries. But she is a bit of a mystery herself.

It is not clear, actually, to which part of ultimaThule's post she was 'thumbing-up'.

If it was the last two paragrahs of uT's, it seems she has had a turn-around from her views the day after the Crimewatch McCann show.


She 'thumbed-up' this from uT this evening:

As the Ocean Club's night creche records for 3 May 2007 have not been published, even if a name were to be given it cannot be checked by those on this or any other forum nor, more importantly, can the McCanns' access the name or the records despite their audacious attempt to use the provisions of Wardship to prise information from the police.

IMO all of those 8 families who, we are told, used that particular facility on the night in question are fully entitled to have their privacy guarded to forestall visits from non-uncle Brian Kennedy/other agents acting for the McCanns.

 

...but said this 17 months ago on 15 October 2013...


But, who is this guy with the funny peasant-type blouse split at the side? Is he really a father picking up his child (can we please see the night creche records of May 3rd 2007 to convince us)? Is he really British? Is he really innocent? How do we know?

When, where, why did he come forward? Police records please to convince us. Did anyone confirm his story?

Records/evidence please.

Why did he keep a child’s pyjama's for 6 years after she'd undoubtedly outgrown them? Why did he keep that funny jacket for the same time?

Can we be sure we're told the truth, and we're not presented with a MI5 or SY plant/patsy/fake?

How?

____________________

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yone at the top of the path.

Post by whatsupdoc on 07.03.15 12:32

I've never believed Jane Tanner stories.

Neither Gerry nor Jez saw her pass them on a narrow path. Was it so dark that they didn't recognise her? She was a member of the group. If so, then it's just about impossible that JT would have seen anyone at the top of the path.

The video of JT was totally unconvincing and she made a mistake saying this is how I held/carried her.....mmm

I think JT made up the story to help Kate but why didn't she tell her straight away? All lies from damaged shutters, curtains blowing, wooly stories from the tapas group  to cover up what really happened to Madeleine.

The PJ and the dogs knew what was going down but we, in the UK, are treated like mushrooms.

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by BlueBag on 07.03.15 15:04

Are the Police allowed to put out false stories to the public?

Is there an official channel where they can be called to account without dodging?

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by Tony Bennett on 07.03.15 15:25

@BlueBag wrote:Are the Police allowed to put out false stories to the public?

Is there an official channel where they can be called to account without dodging?
Never mind being 'called to account', DCI Andy Redwood and DCI Nicola Wall had better make sure they've got their backs well and truly covered, else  they may be found guilty one day of perverting the course of justice (maximum sentence: life imprisonment):

Here are some Crown Prosecution Service notes on the offence:

++++++++++ 

The Offence


3. Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence. It can only be tried on indictment and carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment. The offence is committed where a person:

does an act (a positive act or series of acts is required; mere inaction is insufficient)

which has a tendency to pervert and

which is intended to pervert

the course of public justice.

4. The course of justice includes the police investigation of a possible crime (it is not necessary for legal proceedings to have begun). A false allegation which risks the arrest or wrongful conviction of an innocent person is enough. The word pervert can mean 'alter' but the behaviour does not have to go that far - any act that interferes with an investigation or causes it to head in the wrong direction may tend to pervert the course of justice. All the prosecution needs to prove is that there is a possibility that what the suspect has done "without more" might lead to a wrongful consequence, such as the arrest of an innocent person (Murray (1982) 75 Cr. App. R. 58).

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by LombardySkeptik on 07.03.15 15:47

@BlueBag wrote:Is there any way to get the name of the supposed Crecheman from the Police?

They need to put up or shut up.

Planning to doorstep him?
Is that you Sonia? big grin

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by Gaggzy on 07.03.15 15:59

@LombardySkeptik wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:Is there any way to get the name of the supposed Crecheman from the Police?

They need to put up or shut up.

Planning to doorstep him?
Is that you Sonia? big grin

If that bloke really existed and it was him carrying his own kid that night, for the following few days after the Crime Watch debacle, he would have featured in every newspaper, or maybe just the one whoever was the highest bidder for his story.

A mate of mine said the police probably told him not to go to the press with his story.

Why not?

What have they all got to hide?

Yes, maybe he didn't really want to be identified, but fifty grand? seventy grand? or whatever, would be mightily persuasive.

In my opinion, this story is a complete lie, and Jane Tanner told complete lies by saying she saw a man carrying a child across the top of that road that night.

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Re: 6 major queries about Operation Grange’s identification of a family from the creche as the man seen by Jane Tanner

Post by BlueBag on 07.03.15 16:38

If he exists then there are at least three key questions:

Q) Why were you heading the wrong way?

Q) Why were you carrying the child in that ridiculous way?

Q) Did it not occur to you over the last 8 years to come forward seeing as your likeness was put in the papers many many times?

If £10 million of public money is spent on this investigation then I think the public are owed a few explanations.

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