The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Page 5 of 12 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 10, 11, 12  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by woodforthetrees on 29.01.15 10:48

@SuspiciousMinds wrote:EDITED: ***Sorry, this is a response to woodforthetrees - the quoted text didn't come up as part of my post!***

I don't follow this theory at all.  How do you reach the conclusion that abuse could have taken place anytime after 6pm? No INDEPENDENT witness varified seeing Madeleine after this time that i am aware of. Only The McCanns/tapas The McCanns claim to have seen Madeleine alive as late as 9.05pm, and even if that is a fabrication on their part for whatever reason, it seems fairly certain that they didn't leave the apartment for dinner until around 8.30pm. They didn't dine until 8.30pm, do not confuse this with 'they must've been in their apartment' So if neither they nor the Tapas 7 were responsible for or aware of Madeleine's death, any abuse can only have taken place after that time. Timeframe is too short for the event/s to take place, the event/clear-up/cadaver scent process/ removal of body cannot a;; be done in less than 1hr

Which leaves all the usual question marks about leaving the body hanging around long enough for cadaverine to develop, and the 'panicking' stranger casually and coolly taking all that time to clean the apartment, knowing that the parents could pop back at any moment. Consider another option... the perp was watching the family all week and was aware that they left their kids unattended in an unlocked apartment from say 7pm each night, only to return at say 11pm and that no checking was going on. Also, if you can see the tapas bar from the apartment (as claimed by the McCanns), then the perp can watch for anyone coming back. I don;t think anyone was casually and coolly cleaning up, i think the death was unexpected and panic kicked in (IMO of course)

If something happened earlier than 8.30pm, the McCanns would have known all about it and would be very heavily implicated. The only possible way out would be for them to claim that they'd left the children a lot earlier in the evening than they previously admitted, and didn't do any checking at all. Which is why they discredit the cadaver scent so much, they have to maintain it is an abduction that happened in the 3 minute window, otherwise they are up to their neck in it for neglecting their kids for large periods of time. Also why i believe the Smith sighting has been given more credit, to allow a bit more time, fit the tapas checking bits in and (just) account for some cadaver scent...i.e protect the McCanns from neglect charges (again, IMO only)  Maybe they popped round to someone else's apartment for pre-dinner drinks? Funny how no-one else saw them though. There were a lot of people who saw not a lot the whole evening!

If you're going to go along with the 'McCanns know nothing' story, you either have to accept that their timelines of when they last saw Madeleine are roughly accurate, or you're back to questioning why they repeatedly lied about something so important in their police statements and ever since. See above. They (McCanns and Tapas group lied about the timelines to cover their arses as IMO non of the checking was going on at all. It is only  (again IMO) the cadaver scent that has thrown their checking rota/window of opportunity for it all to take place, out of the window. I believe that this is why the reconstruction hasn't taken place, because the police know that the checking was a load of rubbish.

All IMO of course.

My discussion bits in bold...

woodforthetrees

Posts : 270
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2014-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 29.01.15 11:04

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:

I'm not overly convinced about the sedation theory either tbh as the kids were known to cry on other evenings, however, the police observations about the twins not awakening throughout the commotion do fit with the theory. 

Or you could say that the dose wasn't enough on the other night, with the crying heard by the lady upstairs, so this time around they gave her too much?? (My theory is based on other things )

All this is regardless of who took Madeleine??????????? Que? -who do you think took her then?

At this point i am unsure. 

I was 100% Gerry up until very recently and after some very interesting conversations which highlighted that SY have ruled the couple and the tapas out entirely and are only looking for a paedo who carried out the act and then took the evidence away, i now question why...or more importantly, what do they have on their files which makes them so certain.

So now i am 50/50. As i said before, you can make theories, PII case files and forensics fit many scenarios, but what we don't have is the FULL files and evidence, therefore until we do (it'll never happen), unfortunately, we can but speculate.

What we do know is that SY do not think it's them.


I'm with you on the fact that some of the Portugese files haven't been posted and so we haven't access to all the evidence but for me, with the pedo theory in particular, not only is there no evidence of an outsider gaining access through the doors or window but Interpol who examined the pedo/ or gang from the start found no evidence what-so-ever and as I posted yesterday, felt the McCanns story of being photographed three days before was a lie. Also the insistence from the McCanns from the start that "somebody has taken her"-again with the mysterious photographer, smells as if from the start they wanted investigators to go with this theory and a straight forward pointing to a deliberate intention of misleading detectives.  Another thing that doesn't make sense with the lone intruder was that if he was watching from the start, then he would've taken Madeleine as soon as she was left alone and if he had come along later then chances are, within the time lines given, he would've been seen. Also, quite obviously a pedo wouldn't kill a child, then throw her from the settee and then pick her up and place her in a wardrobe, making sure to contaminate items of various clothing, then leave her for an amount of time for the scent to fix in both cases. Various people coming in to do the childrens sleeping check. Then remove her when she was dead and take her with him? And while doing this entire moving around left no trace what-so-ever of DNA? I think personally if the Yard come out with this theory then they will be a laughing stock because it's at entire odds with the dog evidence. Personally, I disagree with your last statement- Scotland Yard do know it was the McCanns but can't prosecute because the Government won't let them because Gerry has worked for them. I've come across many posts in researching this case where Leicester police and Scotland Yard officers have complained about the amount of help that the McCanns are getting in resources and want a prosecution as much as the public.
  We only have to look at Scotland Yards track record of Lawrence; Saville and in sending spies to impregnate Hunt Sabatoeurs to realise that this is not an organisation that stands for the public welfare??

 I respect your opinion though, but I do disagree.

ScarletLaw

Posts : 236
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-12-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by woodforthetrees on 29.01.15 11:23

@ScarletLaw wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:

I'm not overly convinced about the sedation theory either tbh as the kids were known to cry on other evenings, however, the police observations about the twins not awakening throughout the commotion do fit with the theory. 

Or you could say that the dose wasn't enough on the other night, with the crying heard by the lady upstairs, so this time around they gave her too much?? (My theory is based on other things )

All this is regardless of who took Madeleine??????????? Que? -who do you think took her then?

At this point i am unsure. 

I was 100% Gerry up until very recently and after some very interesting conversations which highlighted that SY have ruled the couple and the tapas out entirely and are only looking for a paedo who carried out the act and then took the evidence away, i now question why...or more importantly, what do they have on their files which makes them so certain.

So now i am 50/50. As i said before, you can make theories, PII case files and forensics fit many scenarios, but what we don't have is the FULL files and evidence, therefore until we do (it'll never happen), unfortunately, we can but speculate.

What we do know is that SY do not think it's them.


I'm with you on the fact that some of the Portugese files haven't been posted and so we haven't access to all the evidence but for me, with the pedo theory in particular, not only is there no evidence of an outsider gaining access through the doors or window IMO door was open, window was opened from the inside, body passed out, then shutter pulled down. but Interpol who examined the pedo/ or gang from the start found no evidence what-so-ever That we know of, i have reason to believe that SY have since found something to challenge that, thus interviewing known paedos on their contacts activities at the time and as I posted yesterday, felt the McCanns story of being photographed three days before was a lie. Agreed, it does sound suss, but how do we know this sighting hasn't been verified??Also the insistence from the McCanns from the start that "somebody has taken her"-again with the mysterious photographer, smells as if from the start they wanted investigators to go with this theory and a straight forward pointing to a deliberate intention of misleading detectives. It can be viewed that way, yes. Another thing that doesn't make sense with the lone intruder was that if he was watching from the start, then he would've taken Madeleine as soon as she was left alone Who is to say he wanted to take her?? I believe the 'taking' part only came about as the act went wrong and she unforyunately passed away, or the perp realised that there was DNA in/On the cadaver so had to remove it. and if he had come along later then chances are, within the time lines given, he would've been seen. Also, quite obviously a pedo wouldn't kill a child, intentionally then throw her from the settee and then pick her up and place her in a wardrobe, You do not need to move the cadaver to move the scent. Lets say for example that the body was placed next to the bed in the parents room whilst the perp looked through the cupboard for a sheet to wrap her up in. I dare say there aren't too many people who are aware of cadaver scent and the timings behind it making sure to contaminate items of various clothing, then leave her for an amount of time for the scent to fix in both cases. Various people coming in to do the childrens sleeping check. or not, this is only on their say Then remove her when she was dead and take her with him? to remove incriminating DNA evidence And while doing this entire moving around left no trace what-so-ever of DNA? If the perp was a known, predetory paedo, he will know to wear gloves etc, especially if he had time in the week to prepare I think personally if the Yard come out with this theory then they will be a laughing stock because it's at entire odds with the dog evidence. not really, it is in line with the dog evidence, but not in line with the tapas child checking rota/statements...and here lies the problem (IMO) Personally, I disagree with your last statement- Scotland Yard do know it was the McCanns but can't prosecute because the Government won't let them because Gerry has worked for them. and i appreciate your side and up until recently would have agreed with you. Nothing i say could convince you or anyone else otherwise until SY clearly state (as they have done) that they are not suspects. I've come across many posts in researching this case where Leicester police and Scotland Yard officers have complained about the amount of help that the McCanns are getting in resources and want a prosecution as much as the public. Agreed, Gerry has a lot of clout with people at the top so everyone helped out as much as possible
  We only have to look at Scotland Yards track record of Lawrence; Saville and in sending spies to impregnate Hunt Sabatoeurs to realise that this is not an organisation that stands for the public welfare?? Couldn't agree more, it's 'help for mates'

 I respect your opinion though, but I do disagree.

Likewise, i respect your opinion and don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying, it does look like it could be the couple as well. Comments above in bold

woodforthetrees

Posts : 270
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2014-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by noseyparker on 29.01.15 11:28



I'm with you on the fact that some of the Portugese files haven't been posted and so we haven't access to all the evidence but for me, with the pedo theory in particular, not only is there no evidence of an outsider gaining access through the doors or window but Interpol who examined the pedo/ or gang from the start found no evidence what-so-ever and as I posted yesterday, felt the McCanns story of being photographed three days before was a lie. Also the insistence from the McCanns from the start that "somebody has taken her"-again with the mysterious photographer, smells as if from the start they wanted investigators to go with this theory and a straight forward pointing to a deliberate intention of misleading detectives.  Another thing that doesn't make sense with the lone intruder was that if he was watching from the start, then he would've taken Madeleine as soon as she was left alone and if he had come along later then chances are, within the time lines given, he would've been seen. Also, quite obviously a pedo wouldn't kill a child, then throw her from the settee and then pick her up and place her in a wardrobe, making sure to contaminate items of various clothing, then leave her for an amount of time for the scent to fix in both cases. Various people coming in to do the childrens sleeping check. Then remove her when she was dead and take her with him? And while doing this entire moving around left no trace what-so-ever of DNA? I think personally if the Yard come out with this theory then they will be a laughing stock because it's at entire odds with the dog evidence. Personally, I disagree with your last statement- Scotland Yard do know it was the McCanns but can't prosecute because the Government won't let them because Gerry has worked for them. I've come across many posts in researching this case where Leicester police and Scotland Yard officers have complained about the amount of help that the McCanns are getting in resources and want a prosecution as much as the public.
  We only have to look at Scotland Yards track record of Lawrence; Saville and in sending spies to impregnate Hunt Sabatoeurs to realise that this is not an organisation that stands for the public welfare??

 I respect your opinion though, but I do disagree.
agree  And their complete reversal of the first statements  because it didn,t fit the evidence front door/patio door,jemmied windows.But what i find most astonishing is the photos of them just days after madeleine vanished is  them laughing and grinning and really enjoying there extension to their holiday

noseyparker

Posts : 78
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2015-01-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 29.01.15 11:42

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:

I'm not overly convinced about the sedation theory either tbh as the kids were known to cry on other evenings, however, the police observations about the twins not awakening throughout the commotion do fit with the theory. 

Or you could say that the dose wasn't enough on the other night, with the crying heard by the lady upstairs, so this time around they gave her too much?? (My theory is based on other things )

All this is regardless of who took Madeleine??????????? Que? -who do you think took her then?

At this point i am unsure. 

I was 100% Gerry up until very recently and after some very interesting conversations which highlighted that SY have ruled the couple and the tapas out entirely and are only looking for a paedo who carried out the act and then took the evidence away, i now question why...or more importantly, what do they have on their files which makes them so certain.

So now i am 50/50. As i said before, you can make theories, PII case files and forensics fit many scenarios, but what we don't have is the FULL files and evidence, therefore until we do (it'll never happen), unfortunately, we can but speculate.

What we do know is that SY do not think it's them.


I'm with you on the fact that some of the Portugese files haven't been posted and so we haven't access to all the evidence but for me, with the pedo theory in particular, not only is there no evidence of an outsider gaining access through the doors or window IMO door was open, window was opened from the inside, body passed out, then shutter pulled down. but Interpol who examined the pedo/ or gang from the start found no evidence what-so-ever That we know of, i have reason to believe that SY have since found something to challenge that, thus interviewing known paedos on their contacts activities at the time and as I posted yesterday, felt the McCanns story of being photographed three days before was a lie. Agreed, it does sound suss, but how do we know this sighting hasn't been verified??Also the insistence from the McCanns from the start that "somebody has taken her"-again with the mysterious photographer, smells as if from the start they wanted investigators to go with this theory and a straight forward pointing to a deliberate intention of misleading detectives. It can be viewed that way, yes. Another thing that doesn't make sense with the lone intruder was that if he was watching from the start, then he would've taken Madeleine as soon as she was left alone Who is to say he wanted to take her?? I believe the 'taking' part only came about as the act went wrong and she unforyunately passed away, or the perp realised that there was DNA in/On the cadaver so had to remove it. and if he had come along later then chances are, within the time lines given, he would've been seen. Also, quite obviously a pedo wouldn't kill a child, intentionally then throw her from the settee and then pick her up and place her in a wardrobe, You do not need to move the cadaver to move the scent. Lets say for example that the body was placed next to the bed in the parents room whilst the perp looked through the cupboard for a sheet to wrap her up in. I dare say there aren't too many people who are aware of cadaver scent and the timings behind it making sure to contaminate items of various clothing, then leave her for an amount of time for the scent to fix in both cases. Various people coming in to do the childrens sleeping check. or not, this is only on their say Then remove her when she was dead and take her with him? to remove incriminating DNA evidence And while doing this entire moving around left no trace what-so-ever of DNA? If the perp was a known, predetory paedo, he will know to wear gloves etc, especially if he had time in the week to prepare I think personally if the Yard come out with this theory then they will be a laughing stock because it's at entire odds with the dog evidence. not really, it is in line with the dog evidence, but not in line with the tapas child checking rota/statements...and here lies the problem (IMO) Personally, I disagree with your last statement- Scotland Yard do know it was the McCanns but can't prosecute because the Government won't let them because Gerry has worked for them. and i appreciate your side and up until recently would have agreed with you. Nothing i say could convince you or anyone else otherwise until SY clearly state (as they have done) that they are not suspects. I've come across many posts in researching this case where Leicester police and Scotland Yard officers have complained about the amount of help that the McCanns are getting in resources and want a prosecution as much as the public. Agreed, Gerry has a lot of clout with people at the top so everyone helped out as much as possible
  We only have to look at Scotland Yards track record of Lawrence; Saville and in sending spies to impregnate Hunt Sabatoeurs to realise that this is not an organisation that stands for the public welfare?? Couldn't agree more, it's 'help for mates'

 I respect your opinion though, but I do disagree.

Likewise, i respect your opinion and don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying, it does look like it could be the couple as well. Comments above in bold
You do not need to move the cadaver to move the scent. Lets say for example that the body was placed next to the bed in the parents room whilst the perp looked through the cupboard for a sheet to wrap her up in. I dare say there aren't too many people who are aware of cadaver scent and the timings behind it ...

The body would have had to lay in these places much longer than a few minutes for the scent to have been picked up all those
 weeks later. Also I know the twins sheets are reported to be missing, blanket of the little girls too, is there something else missing from the wardrobe that you've read?

ScarletLaw

Posts : 236
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-12-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by woodforthetrees on 29.01.15 11:43

@noseyparker wrote:


I'm with you on the fact that some of the Portugese files haven't been posted and so we haven't access to all the evidence but for me, with the pedo theory in particular, not only is there no evidence of an outsider gaining access through the doors or window but Interpol who examined the pedo/ or gang from the start found no evidence what-so-ever and as I posted yesterday, felt the McCanns story of being photographed three days before was a lie. Also the insistence from the McCanns from the start that "somebody has taken her"-again with the mysterious photographer, smells as if from the start they wanted investigators to go with this theory and a straight forward pointing to a deliberate intention of misleading detectives.  Another thing that doesn't make sense with the lone intruder was that if he was watching from the start, then he would've taken Madeleine as soon as she was left alone and if he had come along later then chances are, within the time lines given, he would've been seen. Also, quite obviously a pedo wouldn't kill a child, then throw her from the settee and then pick her up and place her in a wardrobe, making sure to contaminate items of various clothing, then leave her for an amount of time for the scent to fix in both cases. Various people coming in to do the childrens sleeping check. Then remove her when she was dead and take her with him? And while doing this entire moving around left no trace what-so-ever of DNA? I think personally if the Yard come out with this theory then they will be a laughing stock because it's at entire odds with the dog evidence. Personally, I disagree with your last statement- Scotland Yard do know it was the McCanns but can't prosecute because the Government won't let them because Gerry has worked for them. I've come across many posts in researching this case where Leicester police and Scotland Yard officers have complained about the amount of help that the McCanns are getting in resources and want a prosecution as much as the public.
  We only have to look at Scotland Yards track record of Lawrence; Saville and in sending spies to impregnate Hunt Sabatoeurs to realise that this is not an organisation that stands for the public welfare??

 I respect your opinion though, but I do disagree.
agree  And their complete reversal of the first statements  because it didn,t fit the evidence front door/patio door,jemmied windows.But what i find most astonishing is the photos of them just days after madeleine vanished is  them laughing and grinning and really enjoying there extension to their holiday
There is no doubt they both display a lot of narcissistic behaviors which has done them zero favours over the years. They appear to be extremely self centered and like to be 'in control of everything' including their time together, i.e regardless of what has been happening, nothing will stop them enjoying themselves. The even ignored advice and help from family liaison officers, law enforcement officers and media on how to behave and what to/not to publish to ensure Madeleine was as safe as could be and to help the situation but did things 'their way'.

Most people in that situation would follow every word of the experienced, qualified experts to the dot. Not them

woodforthetrees

Posts : 270
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2014-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by woodforthetrees on 29.01.15 11:46

@ScarletLaw wrote:

You do not need to move the cadaver to move the scent. Lets say for example that the body was placed next to the bed in the parents room whilst the perp looked through the cupboard for a sheet to wrap her up in. I dare say there aren't too many people who are aware of cadaver scent and the timings behind it ...

The body would have had to lay in these places much longer than a few minutes for the scent to have been picked up all those
 weeks later. Also I know the twins sheets are reported to be missing, blanket of the little girls too, is there something else missing from the wardrobe that you've read?

Regarding the scent transfer, from articles i have read over the last few years, i was under the impression that provided there is enough cadaver scent coming from the body (would take a minimum of 1hr) then it can be transferred upon contact, or by air. The scent is then detectable for any time up to 1 year after. For any forensics/dog experts on her though, i would gladly like to learn/be corrected if wrong.

No, i haven't read of anything additional that is missing from the items you listed, but again, we do now know what is contained within the files. Just because someone looks in a cupboard (and maybe moves a blue bag to look for sheets underneath or inside), doesn't mean they took something from that location.

woodforthetrees

Posts : 270
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2014-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 29.01.15 11:48

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:

You do not need to move the cadaver to move the scent. Lets say for example that the body was placed next to the bed in the parents room whilst the perp looked through the cupboard for a sheet to wrap her up in. I dare say there aren't too many people who are aware of cadaver scent and the timings behind it ...

The body would have had to lay in these places much longer than a few minutes for the scent to have been picked up all those
 weeks later. Also I know the twins sheets are reported to be missing, blanket of the little girls too, is there something else missing from the wardrobe that you've read?

No, i haven't read of anything additional that is missing from the items you listed, but again, we do now know what is contained within the files. Just because someone looks in a cupboard (and maybe moves a blue bag to look for sheets underneath or inside), doesn't mean they took something from that location.

 True.

ScarletLaw

Posts : 236
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-12-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 29.01.15 12:02

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@noseyparker wrote:


I'm with you on the fact that some of the Portugese files haven't been posted and so we haven't access to all the evidence but for me, with the pedo theory in particular, not only is there no evidence of an outsider gaining access through the doors or window but Interpol who examined the pedo/ or gang from the start found no evidence what-so-ever and as I posted yesterday, felt the McCanns story of being photographed three days before was a lie. Also the insistence from the McCanns from the start that "somebody has taken her"-again with the mysterious photographer, smells as if from the start they wanted investigators to go with this theory and a straight forward pointing to a deliberate intention of misleading detectives.  Another thing that doesn't make sense with the lone intruder was that if he was watching from the start, then he would've taken Madeleine as soon as she was left alone and if he had come along later then chances are, within the time lines given, he would've been seen. Also, quite obviously a pedo wouldn't kill a child, then throw her from the settee and then pick her up and place her in a wardrobe, making sure to contaminate items of various clothing, then leave her for an amount of time for the scent to fix in both cases. Various people coming in to do the childrens sleeping check. Then remove her when she was dead and take her with him? And while doing this entire moving around left no trace what-so-ever of DNA? I think personally if the Yard come out with this theory then they will be a laughing stock because it's at entire odds with the dog evidence. Personally, I disagree with your last statement- Scotland Yard do know it was the McCanns but can't prosecute because the Government won't let them because Gerry has worked for them. I've come across many posts in researching this case where Leicester police and Scotland Yard officers have complained about the amount of help that the McCanns are getting in resources and want a prosecution as much as the public.
  We only have to look at Scotland Yards track record of Lawrence; Saville and in sending spies to impregnate Hunt Sabatoeurs to realise that this is not an organisation that stands for the public welfare??

 I respect your opinion though, but I do disagree.
agree  And their complete reversal of the first statements  because it didn,t fit the evidence front door/patio door,jemmied windows.But what i find most astonishing is the photos of them just days after madeleine vanished is  them laughing and grinning and really enjoying there extension to their holiday
There is no doubt they both display a lot of narcissistic behaviors which has done them zero favours over the years. They appear to be extremely self centered and like to be 'in control of everything' including their time together, i.e regardless of what has been happening, nothing will stop them enjoying themselves. The even ignored advice and help from family liaison officers, law enforcement officers and media on how to behave and what to/not to publish to ensure Madeleine was as safe as could be and to help the situation but did things 'their way'.

Most people in that situation would follow every word of the experienced, qualified experts to the dot. Not the


 Gerry loves the limelight and the attention and fame, that's the main problem. I was reading Kate's book last night and it felt like a celebrity memoir with the name dropping and who spoke to them and invited them to dinner. I actually forgot that she was the mother of a missing child until, twenty pages later, she finally mentioned her daughter again. I've met many people with missing children and they're the complete opposite to how you would act. That's the main problem for them, the public have very good antennas and can recognise pure grief like in Kerry Needhams case where she didn't let her kids out of her sight for a very long time. Kate in comparison moans in her book that the crèche tell her to stay away because the media scrum upsets the other parents?
 I feel it won't be long before the Yard advise them to emigrate because they don't want the hassle of trying to contain every F..K Up they do all the time. My guess is New Zealand or Australia but knowing Gerry he'll want to go to America. Which I wouldn't advise because an actor, who I've worked with on a campaign, told me that Oprah told him that she thought they were lying in her interview. So I'd advise him to stick to the first two places.

ScarletLaw

Posts : 236
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-12-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by Joss on 29.01.15 12:04

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:woodforthetrees wrote ''If the parents and others had been traipsing all over the apartment, which had cadaver scent all over it and then been in the car, it could be transferred.  ''



If cadaver scent is easily transferred, shouldn't it have been detected on all the clothes that were put in the same box? In fact, shouldn't it have been detected everywhere in 5a, since the clothes had been worn and the wearers had moved around?  And also on the seats of the hire car where the wearers were sitting?

This is simply a theory, an opinion. Another one to be considered is that there was some form of other cadaver in the hire car, unrelated to the McCanns.

Looking at the cadaver dog videos, cadaver was scented in the boot (where bags of clothes etc would have been), the footwell/lower door sill of the car and on the keys, therefore someone had come into contact with cadaver scent and transferred it.
Must of been all those dead people K.McC saw at the hospital before she went on vacation to PDL, and then wore those clothes on her holiday and tranferred it onto Cadaver Cat, a child's (Maddie's?) T-shirt, in the bedroom, behind the sofa. and then about 3 weeks later transferred it into the  various places of the scenic hire car. Yeah right!

____________________

Joss

Posts : 1898
Reputation : 146
Join date : 2011-09-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by woodforthetrees on 29.01.15 12:40

@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:woodforthetrees wrote ''If the parents and others had been traipsing all over the apartment, which had cadaver scent all over it and then been in the car, it could be transferred.  ''



If cadaver scent is easily transferred, shouldn't it have been detected on all the clothes that were put in the same box? In fact, shouldn't it have been detected everywhere in 5a, since the clothes had been worn and the wearers had moved around?  And also on the seats of the hire car where the wearers were sitting?

This is simply a theory, an opinion. Another one to be considered is that there was some form of other cadaver in the hire car, unrelated to the McCanns.

Looking at the cadaver dog videos, cadaver was scented in the boot (where bags of clothes etc would have been), the footwell/lower door sill of the car and on the keys, therefore someone had come into contact with cadaver scent and transferred it.
Must of been all those dead people K.McC saw at the hospital before she went on vacation to PDL, and then wore those clothes on her holiday and tranferred it onto Cadaver Cat, a child's (Maddie's?) T-shirt, in the bedroom, behind the sofa. and then about 3 weeks later transferred it into the  various places of the scenic hire car. Yeah right!

Agreed, that was poor story telling by Kate. Possibly a story made up by their lawyer to put an end to the cadaver 'guilty' stories pointed at the couple and the fact that it was Madeleines cadaver scent in the apartment, not someone elses. 

They will keep coming up with ridiculous stories that both exonerate them from any guilt for the murder/removal of the body and also any story that states Madeleine is no longer alive, as it potentially throws a spanner in the works for their child care actions (or lack of) and the fund donations.

woodforthetrees

Posts : 270
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2014-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 29.01.15 12:52

@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:woodforthetrees wrote ''If the parents and others had been traipsing all over the apartment, which had cadaver scent all over it and then been in the car, it could be transferred.  ''



If cadaver scent is easily transferred, shouldn't it have been detected on all the clothes that were put in the same box? In fact, shouldn't it have been detected everywhere in 5a, since the clothes had been worn and the wearers had moved around?  And also on the seats of the hire car where the wearers were sitting?

This is simply a theory, an opinion. Another one to be considered is that there was some form of other cadaver in the hire car, unrelated to the McCanns.

Looking at the cadaver dog videos, cadaver was scented in the boot (where bags of clothes etc would have been), the footwell/lower door sill of the car and on the keys, therefore someone had come into contact with cadaver scent and transferred it.
Must of been all those dead people K.McC saw at the hospital before she went on vacation to PDL, and then wore those clothes on her holiday and tranferred it onto Cadaver Cat, a child's (Maddie's?) T-shirt, in the bedroom, behind the sofa. and then about 3 weeks later transferred it into the  various places of the scenic hire car. Yeah right!


My favourite Joss is that she took her child's favourite toy to work where it came into contact with a dead body. I would have loved to seen a Judges face with that as a response, let alone a jurys'.

ScarletLaw

Posts : 236
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-12-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by Joss on 29.01.15 12:53

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:woodforthetrees wrote ''If the parents and others had been traipsing all over the apartment, which had cadaver scent all over it and then been in the car, it could be transferred.  ''



If cadaver scent is easily transferred, shouldn't it have been detected on all the clothes that were put in the same box? In fact, shouldn't it have been detected everywhere in 5a, since the clothes had been worn and the wearers had moved around?  And also on the seats of the hire car where the wearers were sitting?

This is simply a theory, an opinion. Another one to be considered is that there was some form of other cadaver in the hire car, unrelated to the McCanns.

Looking at the cadaver dog videos, cadaver was scented in the boot (where bags of clothes etc would have been), the footwell/lower door sill of the car and on the keys, therefore someone had come into contact with cadaver scent and transferred it.
Must of been all those dead people K.McC saw at the hospital before she went on vacation to PDL, and then wore those clothes on her holiday and tranferred it onto Cadaver Cat, a child's (Maddie's?) T-shirt, in the bedroom, behind the sofa. and then about 3 weeks later transferred it into the  various places of the scenic hire car. Yeah right!

Agreed, that was poor story telling by Kate. Possibly a story made up by their lawyer to put an end to the cadaver 'guilty' stories pointed at the couple and the fact that it was Madeleines cadaver scent in the apartment, not someone elses. 

They will keep coming up with ridiculous stories that both exonerate them from any guilt for the murder/removal of the body and also any story that states Madeleine is no longer alive, as it potentially throws a spanner in the works for their child care actions (or lack of) and the fund donations.
Their lawyer must of been pretty dumb if he thought that story would wash, IMO.

____________________

Joss

Posts : 1898
Reputation : 146
Join date : 2011-09-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by stillsloppingout on 29.01.15 12:53

The person who mattered GA knows they are responsible , for conceling a corpse , and failing to notify the authorities re a death . The PJ know ( its in there files ) The ones SY are desperate to get there hands on . hence the last few years charade ,and £10 million plus spent on total bollocks . 
( there motive IMO selfish parents Into each other literally ) sedated all the kids to keep them quiet at bedtime , by accident one of them re sedated ALL the kids . one died the twins were literally knocked out ( its in the files ,the gnr officer noted this Kate with her finger under the nose test is damming too.
Used contacts to get story out to MSM . become untouchable celebrities that no one dare challenge ,due to there powerful status backed up by massive legal machinery in the background ,and the cover of grieving parents in the foreground . Throw in they are professionals ( Doctors ) doctors NEVER do wrong in the public eye ( hence why Shipman was allowed to kill with impunity 200 for god sake ) then you have your perfect storm .
It all boils down to the fact IMO they jointly being responsible for drugging and killing one of there children . it is likely Kate administered the fatal dosage , and was going to summon help (but was stopped Hence the bruising on her wrists ) .
Everything else that happened is just the truth of a Lie .
finally once again they were NOT followed by the press or the PJ they should have been but they were not. 

@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:woodforthetrees wrote ''If the parents and others had been traipsing all over the apartment, which had cadaver scent all over it and then been in the car, it could be transferred.  ''



If cadaver scent is easily transferred, shouldn't it have been detected on all the clothes that were put in the same box? In fact, shouldn't it have been detected everywhere in 5a, since the clothes had been worn and the wearers had moved around?  And also on the seats of the hire car where the wearers were sitting?

This is simply a theory, an opinion. Another one to be considered is that there was some form of other cadaver in the hire car, unrelated to the McCanns.

Looking at the cadaver dog videos, cadaver was scented in the boot (where bags of clothes etc would have been), the footwell/lower door sill of the car and on the keys, therefore someone had come into contact with cadaver scent and transferred it.
Must of been all those dead people K.McC saw at the hospital before she went on vacation to PDL, and then wore those clothes on her holiday and tranferred it onto Cadaver Cat, a child's (Maddie's?) T-shirt, in the bedroom, behind the sofa. and then about 3 weeks later transferred it into the  various places of the scenic hire car. Yeah right!

stillsloppingout

Posts : 489
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2013-02-06
Location : N WEST ENGLAND

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by Joss on 29.01.15 12:57

@ScarletLaw wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:woodforthetrees wrote ''If the parents and others had been traipsing all over the apartment, which had cadaver scent all over it and then been in the car, it could be transferred.  ''



If cadaver scent is easily transferred, shouldn't it have been detected on all the clothes that were put in the same box? In fact, shouldn't it have been detected everywhere in 5a, since the clothes had been worn and the wearers had moved around?  And also on the seats of the hire car where the wearers were sitting?

This is simply a theory, an opinion. Another one to be considered is that there was some form of other cadaver in the hire car, unrelated to the McCanns.

Looking at the cadaver dog videos, cadaver was scented in the boot (where bags of clothes etc would have been), the footwell/lower door sill of the car and on the keys, therefore someone had come into contact with cadaver scent and transferred it.
Must of been all those dead people K.McC saw at the hospital before she went on vacation to PDL, and then wore those clothes on her holiday and tranferred it onto Cadaver Cat, a child's (Maddie's?) T-shirt, in the bedroom, behind the sofa. and then about 3 weeks later transferred it into the  various places of the scenic hire car. Yeah right!


My favourite Joss is that she took her child's favourite toy to work where it came into contact with a dead body. I would have loved to seen a Judges face with that as a response, let alone a jurys'.
Yep, it's total BS and a flat out lie,  obviously. Rolling Eyes

Joss

Posts : 1898
Reputation : 146
Join date : 2011-09-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 29.01.15 12:59

@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:woodforthetrees wrote ''If the parents and others had been traipsing all over the apartment, which had cadaver scent all over it and then been in the car, it could be transferred.  ''



If cadaver scent is easily transferred, shouldn't it have been detected on all the clothes that were put in the same box? In fact, shouldn't it have been detected everywhere in 5a, since the clothes had been worn and the wearers had moved around?  And also on the seats of the hire car where the wearers were sitting?

This is simply a theory, an opinion. Another one to be considered is that there was some form of other cadaver in the hire car, unrelated to the McCanns.

Looking at the cadaver dog videos, cadaver was scented in the boot (where bags of clothes etc would have been), the footwell/lower door sill of the car and on the keys, therefore someone had come into contact with cadaver scent and transferred it.
Must of been all those dead people K.McC saw at the hospital before she went on vacation to PDL, and then wore those clothes on her holiday and tranferred it onto Cadaver Cat, a child's (Maddie's?) T-shirt, in the bedroom, behind the sofa. and then about 3 weeks later transferred it into the  various places of the scenic hire car. Yeah right!

Agreed, that was poor story telling by Kate. Possibly a story made up by their lawyer to put an end to the cadaver 'guilty' stories pointed at the couple and the fact that it was Madeleines cadaver scent in the apartment, not someone elses. 

They will keep coming up with ridiculous stories that both exonerate them from any guilt for the murder/removal of the body and also any story that states Madeleine is no longer alive, as it potentially throws a spanner in the works for their child care actions (or lack of) and the fund donations.
Their lawyer must of been pretty dumb if he thought that story would wash, IMO.


I talk to Lawyers daily and I agree, nobody would advise them to do that. Kate and Gerry are repeatedly changing their stories to fit the facts and this shows more than anything to me that they're involved in some way. Again, like woodfortrees pointed out, they ignore all their advisors and Gerry egotism makes him think for himself. They will be their own downfall.

ScarletLaw

Posts : 236
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-12-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by SuspiciousMinds on 29.01.15 13:03

But, woodforthetrees, if you genuinely thought your child had been abducted, you would (presumably) want them back. Why would you then help out the person who took your child by pretending you only left them alone for one hour rather than three? Either way the parents would be facing accusations of neglect, but by lying about it they would be seriously jeopardising any chance of getting her back - why would they do that to their child?

And Gerry was definitely outside the apartment at around 9.15pm, because Jez Wilkins confirmed it. Either Gerry genuinely did see Madeleine as claimed (in which case she didn't mysteriously disappear before then) or he didn't (in which case, why lie about it so elaborately with the 'proud father' moment? He could easily have said he popped back to use the toilet and all was quiet, so he assumed everything was OK and didn't look in on the children. That would have opened up the possibility of Madeleine disappearing earlier whilst fitting nicely with the checking story, but his statement ruled it out entirely.)

If the McCanns had been out of the apartment from 7pm - 11pm every other night, the perpetrator was damn unlucky that they happened to go back at 9.05pm and 10pm on the very night he/she chose to act! Plus as Gerry was playing tennis until 7pm and didn't turn up to dinner in sweaty tennis clothes, it can probably be safely assumed that the apartment was occupied by adults for quite some time after 7pm.

And, yes, the timeframe of 9.15pm - 10.00pm is too short for the whole process to have taken place, but that's why the McCanns fell under suspicion in the first place. It's not feasible that your panicking perpetrator, desperate to get away, allowed the dead body to remain in the apartment for so long that it started to produce detectable cadaverine. It's not feasible that a devastated father, desperate to get his child back, would lie pointlessly about the last time he saw his daughter and jeopardise the search for her. The dogs have got them every which way.

You seem to be assuming that the police investigations have found some piece of definitive evidence that rules out the McCanns' involvement once and for all. If that was the case, don't you think the McCanns would have been trumpeting it from the rooftops? Particularly given the weakness of their case in court against Dr. Amaral. I will believe it when I see it - because everything I've seen so far seems to point firmly in the direction of the McCanns.

SuspiciousMinds

Posts : 59
Reputation : 19
Join date : 2014-06-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 29.01.15 13:22

@SuspiciousMinds wrote:But, woodforthetrees, if you genuinely thought your child had been abducted, you would (presumably) want them back. Why would you then help out the person who took your child by pretending you only left them alone for one hour rather than three? Either way the parents would be facing accusations of neglect, but by lying about it they would be seriously jeopardising any chance of getting her back - why would they do that to their child?

And Gerry was definitely outside the apartment at around 9.15pm, because Jez Wilkins confirmed it. Either Gerry genuinely did see Madeleine as claimed (in which case she didn't mysteriously disappear before then) or he didn't (in which case, why lie about it so elaborately with the 'proud father' moment? He could easily have said he popped back to use the toilet and all was quiet, so he assumed everything was OK and didn't look in on the children. That would have opened up the possibility of Madeleine disappearing earlier whilst fitting nicely with the checking story, but his statement ruled it out entirely.)

If the McCanns had been out of the apartment from 7pm - 11pm every other night, the perpetrator was damn unlucky that they happened to go back at 9.05pm and 10pm on the very night he/she chose to act! Plus as Gerry was playing tennis until 7pm and didn't turn up to dinner in sweaty tennis clothes, it can probably be safely assumed that the apartment was occupied by adults for quite some time after 7pm.

And, yes, the timeframe of 9.15pm - 10.00pm is too short for the whole process to have taken place, but that's why the McCanns fell under suspicion in the first place. It's not feasible that your panicking perpetrator, desperate to get away, allowed the dead body to remain in the apartment for so long that it started to produce detectable cadaverine. It's not feasible that a devastated father, desperate to get his child back, would lie pointlessly about the last time he saw his daughter and jeopardise the search for her. The dogs have got them every which way.

You seem to be assuming that the police investigations have found some piece of definitive evidence that rules out the McCanns' involvement once and for all. If that was the case, don't you think the McCanns would have been trumpeting it from the rooftops? Particularly given the weakness of their case in court against Dr. Amaral. I will believe it when I see it - because everything I've seen so far seems to point firmly in the direction of the McCanns.

 Very well put. I think the dog evidence is why Scotland Yard haven't closed the case yet and I know they're desperate to find a solution that fits with the theory that doesn't implicate the McCanns. Which is an impossible task because- there just isn't one. Trying "desperately" to find a way of fabricating some evidence is more the remit at this time for our boys in black. Hence Redwoods very iffy Crimewatch appeal of manipulating the timeline and the fabrication of Crecheman.

ScarletLaw

Posts : 236
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-12-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by woodforthetrees on 29.01.15 13:28

@SuspiciousMinds wrote:But, woodforthetrees, if you genuinely thought your child had been abducted, you would (presumably) want them back. Why would you then help out the person who took your child by pretending you only left them alone for one hour rather than three? To stop yourself from being arrested for neglect Either way the parents would be facing accusations of neglect, not if they can argue that they were checking and there was only a very small window (3 ins) where the 'abductor' took her (allegedly alive) but by lying about it they would be seriously jeopardising any chance of getting her back - why would they do that to their child? Or put another way, the child is gone, whether it be 1hr ago or 3hrs ago, therefore spending time discussing the amount of time she was spent alone would detract from any search

And Gerry was definitely outside the apartment at around 9.15pm, because Jez Wilkins confirmed it. Oh, nice, reliable Jez Wilkins. I have no doubt the tapas group colluded to come up with a whole cycle of meets and checks, to keep each other in the clear. This 'meeting, was the very same meeting that was debated by tanner was it not? Either Gerry genuinely did see Madeleine as claimed (in which case she didn't mysteriously disappear before then) or he didn't (in which case, why lie about it so elaborately with the 'proud father' moment? to cover his arse and show that being a 'proud father' he was checking on the kids (when he was drinking in the bar instead) He could easily have said he popped back to use the toilet and all was quiet, so he assumed everything was OK and didn't look in on the children. That would have opened up the possibility of Madeleine disappearing earlier whilst fitting nicely with the checking story, but his statement ruled it out entirely.) Key point you mention here 'his statement', i.e his version of events.

If the McCanns had been out of the apartment from 7pm - 11pm every other night, the perpetrator was damn unlucky that they happened to go back at 9.05pm and 10pm on the very night he/she chose to act! Those timings were an example, they may have been out 7-9.30, or 6.30-10, or 7-11.30 on any of those nights. The point being, if SY believe a perp was watching, then there mustve been a safe window of opportunity... i.e a chunk of time, not..a 3 minute window as suggested by the McCanns.  Plus as Gerry was playing tennis until 7pm and didn't turn up to dinner in sweaty tennis clothes, it can probably be safely assumed that the apartment was occupied by adults for quite some time after 7pm. Unless he got changed in another apartment

And, yes, the timeframe of 9.15pm - 10.00pm is too short for the whole process to have taken place, but that's why the McCanns fell under suspicion in the first place. If you look at the suggested timeline, sightings and 'rota', the available window is 3 minutes, not 45mins It's not feasible that your panicking perpetrator, desperate to get away, allowed the dead body to remain in the apartment for so long that it started to produce detectable cadaverine. Yes it is, lets say 8pm entry, 9.30 exit. Madeleine died within 30 mins, hour for the tidying up and scent to start It's not feasible that a devastated father, desperate to get his child back, would lie pointlessly about the last time he saw his daughter and jeopardise the search for her. The dogs have got them every which way. ...unless he needed to be seen to have been checking the kids

You seem to be assuming that the police investigations have found some piece of definitive evidence that rules out the McCanns' involvement once and for all. I think that is very clear, not just an assumption of mine, they are NOT looking at the McCanns...which means they are looking for someone else. They must have some reason/evidence/justification to be doing that. If that was the case, don't you think the McCanns would have been trumpeting it from the rooftops? They are and they are suing anybody who says otherwise! Particularly given the weakness of their case in court against Dr. Amaral. This is a defamation case and a case about the book hurting them and making them feel bad about being labelled as moving her body by Amaral. Amaral will win because he has the rights to be able to write that book and it is proven that they were already feeling ruined because of the loss of their daughter I will believe it when I see it - because everything I've seen so far seems to point firmly in the direction of the McCanns. I agree, a lot of the information available on line and discussed in both the media and on forums such as these does point to the McCanns, i don't dispute that and i too have agreed with that for a long time (and until the case is closed will continue to consider it), but, the fact remains.... they are not suspects but yet the investigation continues, which means someone other than them is. Who that person is remains a mystery, but the money is on a lone person committing an act and removing the body
comments above.

woodforthetrees

Posts : 270
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2014-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by woodforthetrees on 29.01.15 13:32

@ScarletLaw wrote:
@SuspiciousMinds wrote:But, woodforthetrees, if you genuinely thought your child had been abducted, you would (presumably) want them back. Why would you then help out the person who took your child by pretending you only left them alone for one hour rather than three? Either way the parents would be facing accusations of neglect, but by lying about it they would be seriously jeopardising any chance of getting her back - why would they do that to their child?

And Gerry was definitely outside the apartment at around 9.15pm, because Jez Wilkins confirmed it. Either Gerry genuinely did see Madeleine as claimed (in which case she didn't mysteriously disappear before then) or he didn't (in which case, why lie about it so elaborately with the 'proud father' moment? He could easily have said he popped back to use the toilet and all was quiet, so he assumed everything was OK and didn't look in on the children. That would have opened up the possibility of Madeleine disappearing earlier whilst fitting nicely with the checking story, but his statement ruled it out entirely.)

If the McCanns had been out of the apartment from 7pm - 11pm every other night, the perpetrator was damn unlucky that they happened to go back at 9.05pm and 10pm on the very night he/she chose to act! Plus as Gerry was playing tennis until 7pm and didn't turn up to dinner in sweaty tennis clothes, it can probably be safely assumed that the apartment was occupied by adults for quite some time after 7pm.

And, yes, the timeframe of 9.15pm - 10.00pm is too short for the whole process to have taken place, but that's why the McCanns fell under suspicion in the first place. It's not feasible that your panicking perpetrator, desperate to get away, allowed the dead body to remain in the apartment for so long that it started to produce detectable cadaverine. It's not feasible that a devastated father, desperate to get his child back, would lie pointlessly about the last time he saw his daughter and jeopardise the search for her. The dogs have got them every which way.

You seem to be assuming that the police investigations have found some piece of definitive evidence that rules out the McCanns' involvement once and for all. If that was the case, don't you think the McCanns would have been trumpeting it from the rooftops? Particularly given the weakness of their case in court against Dr. Amaral. I will believe it when I see it - because everything I've seen so far seems to point firmly in the direction of the McCanns.

 Very well put. I think the dog evidence is why Scotland Yard haven't closed the case yet and I know they're desperate to find a solution that fits with the theory that doesn't implicate the McCanns. Which is an impossible task because- there just isn't one. Trying "desperately" to find a way of fabricating some evidence is more the remit at this time for our boys in black. Hence Redwoods very iffy Crimewatch appeal of manipulating the timeline and the fabrication of Crecheman.

The dog evidence points to her being dead before removed...which creates a problem for the McCanns as it means that the period for cadaver to develop, time of death, act of whatever and cleanup time does not fit with the checking rota.

Agreed, the McCanns are protected and i also agree that crecheman and Smithman were manipulated to make the cadaver and the 'checking' fit as best they can.

I do however believe that the 9.15 (ish) Tanner sighting was actually the genuine one, which is why the McCanns keep it on their site.

IMO and based on recent conversations i have had, SY are protecting them against neglect charges, but are not protecting them against the murder/disposal charges as they do not believe it is them.

woodforthetrees

Posts : 270
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2014-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by ultimaThule on 29.01.15 13:50

@ScarletLaw wrote:
< snip > I think the dog evidence is why Scotland Yard haven't closed the case yet and I know they're desperate to find a solution that fits with the theory that doesn't implicate the McCanns. Which is an impossible task because- there just isn't one. Trying "desperately" to find a way of fabricating some evidence is more the remit at this time for our boys in black. Hence Redwoods very iffy Crimewatch appeal of manipulating the timeline and the fabrication of Crecheman.

How do you know that SY are 'desperate to find a solution that fits with the theory that doesn't implicate the McCanns, SL?

Can you please point me in the direction of anything which can be seen as substantiating your apparent insider knowledge of SY's intentions?


ultimaThule

Posts : 3355
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-09-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by Guest on 29.01.15 13:50

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:
@SuspiciousMinds wrote:But, woodforthetrees, if you genuinely thought your child had been abducted, you would (presumably) want them back. Why would you then help out the person who took your child by pretending you only left them alone for one hour rather than three? Either way the parents would be facing accusations of neglect, but by lying about it they would be seriously jeopardising any chance of getting her back - why would they do that to their child?

And Gerry was definitely outside the apartment at around 9.15pm, because Jez Wilkins confirmed it. Either Gerry genuinely did see Madeleine as claimed (in which case she didn't mysteriously disappear before then) or he didn't (in which case, why lie about it so elaborately with the 'proud father' moment? He could easily have said he popped back to use the toilet and all was quiet, so he assumed everything was OK and didn't look in on the children. That would have opened up the possibility of Madeleine disappearing earlier whilst fitting nicely with the checking story, but his statement ruled it out entirely.)

If the McCanns had been out of the apartment from 7pm - 11pm every other night, the perpetrator was damn unlucky that they happened to go back at 9.05pm and 10pm on the very night he/she chose to act! Plus as Gerry was playing tennis until 7pm and didn't turn up to dinner in sweaty tennis clothes, it can probably be safely assumed that the apartment was occupied by adults for quite some time after 7pm.

And, yes, the timeframe of 9.15pm - 10.00pm is too short for the whole process to have taken place, but that's why the McCanns fell under suspicion in the first place. It's not feasible that your panicking perpetrator, desperate to get away, allowed the dead body to remain in the apartment for so long that it started to produce detectable cadaverine. It's not feasible that a devastated father, desperate to get his child back, would lie pointlessly about the last time he saw his daughter and jeopardise the search for her. The dogs have got them every which way.

You seem to be assuming that the police investigations have found some piece of definitive evidence that rules out the McCanns' involvement once and for all. If that was the case, don't you think the McCanns would have been trumpeting it from the rooftops? Particularly given the weakness of their case in court against Dr. Amaral. I will believe it when I see it - because everything I've seen so far seems to point firmly in the direction of the McCanns.

 Very well put. I think the dog evidence is why Scotland Yard haven't closed the case yet and I know they're desperate to find a solution that fits with the theory that doesn't implicate the McCanns. Which is an impossible task because- there just isn't one. Trying "desperately" to find a way of fabricating some evidence is more the remit at this time for our boys in black. Hence Redwoods very iffy Crimewatch appeal of manipulating the timeline and the fabrication of Crecheman.

The dog evidence points to her being dead before removed...which creates a problem for the McCanns as it means that the period for cadaver to develop, time of death, act of whatever and cleanup time does not fit with the checking rota.

Agreed, the McCanns are protected and i also agree that crecheman and Smithman were manipulated to make the cadaver and the 'checking' fit as best they can.

I do however believe that the 9.15 (ish) Tanner sighting was actually the genuine one, which is why the McCanns keep it on their site.

IMO and based on recent conversations i have had, SY are protecting them against neglect charges, but are not protecting them against the murder/disposal charges as they do not believe it is them.
Some interesting thoughts in all of these posts,I wonder if tannerman isn't real as well, someone was hired/ coerced into removing the corpse JT saw him but wasn't supposed to.That is why smithman was added for confusion,confusion is good isn't it.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 29.01.15 13:51

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@SuspiciousMinds wrote:But, woodforthetrees, if you genuinely thought your child had been abducted, you would (presumably) want them back. Why would you then help out the person who took your child by pretending you only left them alone for one hour rather than three? To stop yourself from being arrested for neglect Either way the parents would be facing accusations of neglect, not if they can argue that they were checking and there was only a very small window (3 ins) where the 'abductor' took her (allegedly alive) but by lying about it they would be seriously jeopardising any chance of getting her back - why would they do that to their child? Or put another way, the child is gone, whether it be 1hr ago or 3hrs ago, therefore spending time discussing the amount of time she was spent alone would detract from any search

And Gerry was definitely outside the apartment at around 9.15pm, because Jez Wilkins confirmed it. Oh, nice, reliable Jez Wilkins. I have no doubt the tapas group colluded to come up with a whole cycle of meets and checks, to keep each other in the clear. This 'meeting, was the very same meeting that was debated by tanner was it not? Either Gerry genuinely did see Madeleine as claimed (in which case she didn't mysteriously disappear before then) or he didn't (in which case, why lie about it so elaborately with the 'proud father' moment? to cover his arse and show that being a 'proud father' he was checking on the kids (when he was drinking in the bar instead) He could easily have said he popped back to use the toilet and all was quiet, so he assumed everything was OK and didn't look in on the children. That would have opened up the possibility of Madeleine disappearing earlier whilst fitting nicely with the checking story, but his statement ruled it out entirely.) Key point you mention here 'his statement', i.e his version of events.

If the McCanns had been out of the apartment from 7pm - 11pm every other night, the perpetrator was damn unlucky that they happened to go back at 9.05pm and 10pm on the very night he/she chose to act! Those timings were an example, they may have been out 7-9.30, or 6.30-10, or 7-11.30 on any of those nights. The point being, if SY believe a perp was watching, then there mustve been a safe window of opportunity... i.e a chunk of time, not..a 3 minute window as suggested by the McCanns.  Plus as Gerry was playing tennis until 7pm and didn't turn up to dinner in sweaty tennis clothes, it can probably be safely assumed that the apartment was occupied by adults for quite some time after 7pm. Unless he got changed in another apartment

And, yes, the timeframe of 9.15pm - 10.00pm is too short for the whole process to have taken place, but that's why the McCanns fell under suspicion in the first place. If you look at the suggested timeline, sightings and 'rota', the available window is 3 minutes, not 45mins It's not feasible that your panicking perpetrator, desperate to get away, allowed the dead body to remain in the apartment for so long that it started to produce detectable cadaverine. Yes it is, lets say 8pm entry, 9.30 exit. Madeleine died within 30 mins, hour for the tidying up and scent to start It's not feasible that a devastated father, desperate to get his child back, would lie pointlessly about the last time he saw his daughter and jeopardise the search for her. The dogs have got them every which way. ...unless he needed to be seen to have been checking the kids

You seem to be assuming that the police investigations have found some piece of definitive evidence that rules out the McCanns' involvement once and for all. I think that is very clear, not just an assumption of mine, they are NOT looking at the McCanns...which means they are looking for someone else. They must have some reason/evidence/justification to be doing that. If that was the case, don't you think the McCanns would have been trumpeting it from the rooftops? They are and they are suing anybody who says otherwise! Particularly given the weakness of their case in court against Dr. Amaral. This is a defamation case and a case about the book hurting them and making them feel bad about being labelled as moving her body by Amaral. Amaral will win because he has the rights to be able to write that book and it is proven that they were already feeling ruined because of the loss of their daughter I will believe it when I see it - because everything I've seen so far seems to point firmly in the direction of the McCanns. I agree, a lot of the information available on line and discussed in both the media and on forums such as these does point to the McCanns, i don't dispute that and i too have agreed with that for a long time (and until the case is closed will continue to consider it), but, the fact remains.... they are not suspects but yet the investigation continues, which means someone other than them is. Who that person is remains a mystery, but the money is on a lone person committing an act and removing the body
comments above.
I see your points but it doesn't take away for their behaviour since the crime.

IF their daughter had been taken why have they never done something like Kerry Needham, arrange for groups of people to search specific areas where she thinks her son might be? Kerry does it without the funding the McCanns have and regularly goes abroad.
 Why haven't Gerry and Kate used the reward money in later interviews? Surely this is their trump card in getting a result.
Why do they WASTE money on suing particular people when the money could be used for better means? Kerrys brother was accused at a time but she shrugged it off. Why- to worried about her son to care.
 Why hire incompetent investigators that have set up a phone line that is never answered? As the reporter from the Times has pointed out.
 Why give out fictious e-fits of suspects, as Clarence has done in a press call, when their own investigators never went to the harbour themselves to question people?

And NO INNOCENT PERSON EVER, Sets up a PR defensive within days of your child going missing.
 PR IS PURELY FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO WHITE WASH THE NEWS.

ScarletLaw

Posts : 236
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-12-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 29.01.15 13:54

@ultimaThule wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:
< snip > I think the dog evidence is why Scotland Yard haven't closed the case yet and I know they're desperate to find a solution that fits with the theory that doesn't implicate the McCanns. Which is an impossible task because- there just isn't one. Trying "desperately" to find a way of fabricating some evidence is more the remit at this time for our boys in black. Hence Redwoods very iffy Crimewatch appeal of manipulating the timeline and the fabrication of Crecheman.

How do you know that SY are 'desperate to find a solution that fits with the theory that doesn't implicate the McCanns, SL?

Can you please point me in the direction of anything which can be seen as substantiating your apparent insider knowledge of SY's intentions?


 Because I've been in this game a long time.

ScarletLaw

Posts : 236
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-12-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This just gone on to Daily Mail.

Post by Joss on 29.01.15 13:59

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:
@SuspiciousMinds wrote:But, woodforthetrees, if you genuinely thought your child had been abducted, you would (presumably) want them back. Why would you then help out the person who took your child by pretending you only left them alone for one hour rather than three? Either way the parents would be facing accusations of neglect, but by lying about it they would be seriously jeopardising any chance of getting her back - why would they do that to their child?

And Gerry was definitely outside the apartment at around 9.15pm, because Jez Wilkins confirmed it. Either Gerry genuinely did see Madeleine as claimed (in which case she didn't mysteriously disappear before then) or he didn't (in which case, why lie about it so elaborately with the 'proud father' moment? He could easily have said he popped back to use the toilet and all was quiet, so he assumed everything was OK and didn't look in on the children. That would have opened up the possibility of Madeleine disappearing earlier whilst fitting nicely with the checking story, but his statement ruled it out entirely.)

If the McCanns had been out of the apartment from 7pm - 11pm every other night, the perpetrator was damn unlucky that they happened to go back at 9.05pm and 10pm on the very night he/she chose to act! Plus as Gerry was playing tennis until 7pm and didn't turn up to dinner in sweaty tennis clothes, it can probably be safely assumed that the apartment was occupied by adults for quite some time after 7pm.

And, yes, the timeframe of 9.15pm - 10.00pm is too short for the whole process to have taken place, but that's why the McCanns fell under suspicion in the first place. It's not feasible that your panicking perpetrator, desperate to get away, allowed the dead body to remain in the apartment for so long that it started to produce detectable cadaverine. It's not feasible that a devastated father, desperate to get his child back, would lie pointlessly about the last time he saw his daughter and jeopardise the search for her. The dogs have got them every which way.

You seem to be assuming that the police investigations have found some piece of definitive evidence that rules out the McCanns' involvement once and for all. If that was the case, don't you think the McCanns would have been trumpeting it from the rooftops? Particularly given the weakness of their case in court against Dr. Amaral. I will believe it when I see it - because everything I've seen so far seems to point firmly in the direction of the McCanns.

 Very well put. I think the dog evidence is why Scotland Yard haven't closed the case yet and I know they're desperate to find a solution that fits with the theory that doesn't implicate the McCanns. Which is an impossible task because- there just isn't one. Trying "desperately" to find a way of fabricating some evidence is more the remit at this time for our boys in black. Hence Redwoods very iffy Crimewatch appeal of manipulating the timeline and the fabrication of Crecheman.

The dog evidence points to her being dead before removed...which creates a problem for the McCanns as it means that the period for cadaver to develop, time of death, act of whatever and cleanup time does not fit with the checking rota.

Agreed, the McCanns are protected and i also agree that crecheman and Smithman were manipulated to make the cadaver and the 'checking' fit as best they can.

I do however believe that the 9.15 (ish) Tanner sighting was actually the genuine one, which is why the McCanns keep it on their site.

IMO and based on recent conversations i have had, SY are protecting them against neglect charges, but are not protecting them against the murder/disposal charges as they do not believe it is them.
I think its possible SY had their orders from high up to not implicate the McC's in the crime. There seems to be a general consensus on this because of the political interference in the case. With the connections the McC's have had i do not find this an impossible scenario.

Joss

Posts : 1898
Reputation : 146
Join date : 2011-09-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 12 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 10, 11, 12  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum