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***NEW 14.10.16 - CHED EVANS NOT GUILTY*** (was: CHED EVANS WINS APPEAL 21.4.16 RAPE CONVICTION QUASHED*** (was: Ched Evans case))

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Ched Evans case

Post by G-Unit on 29.01.15 17:12

I don't think that would be admissable. Unless the prosecution mentions the victim's character first the defense are not allowed to.

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George Galloway

Post by Guest on 29.01.15 17:19

As the topic's been revived, I thought I'd post this which I found while searching on the forum recently for Galloway's article on the McCanns.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5466-george-galloway-attacked-over-assange-rape-comments

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Re: ***NEW 14.10.16 - CHED EVANS NOT GUILTY*** (was: CHED EVANS WINS APPEAL 21.4.16 RAPE CONVICTION QUASHED*** (was: Ched Evans case))

Post by ultimaThule on 29.01.15 18:02

Western society is based on the Judeo-Christian concept of woman being subordinate to man.  In a male dominated society disobedient women are portrayed as evil beings who use their sexuality to beguile and seduce in order to diminish/destroy the alleged divine right of males to reign supreme and this view of the male/female relationship continues to be inculcated in impressionable young, and old, minds.  .

On page 1 of this thread you have speculated as to whether you have been 'brainwashed by our patriarchal society', G-Unit, and I would suggest that your views on rape may have been coloured by both the society we live in and the experience of the male member of your family you've referred to which has, in turn, lead you to form what appears to be a distinctly misogynistic opinion of women.  

Statistics rarely give the whole picture but these indicate that the number of reported sex crimes has increased http://rt.com/uk/225711-saville-reports-pedo-increase/  and given the comments of the Lord Chief Justice it is unlikely that there will be a downturn anytime soon: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2928864/Extreme-internet-pornography-driving-people-inflict-sexual-violence-murder-country-s-senior-judge-warns.html

With regard to the UN Declaration you've highlighted, perhaps you would also care to consider this UN report:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/one-in-10-girls-raped-or-sexually-abused-before-they-reach-the-age-of-20-says-global-report-9713641

The use of rape and sexual assault to subjugate, humiliate, and dominate women, children, and men, through the ages is well-documented but it has only recently been defined as a war crime:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wartime_sexual_violence#Crimes_against_humanity_and_war_crimes

To return to the case of Evans, double standards are still much in evidence in that a male who gets hammered and wakes up in the hotel room of a female who was previously unknown to him is highly unlikely to be subjected to any criticism whatsoever.  However, a female who has too much to drink and wakes up in a hotel room with no recollection of what occurred during the night is regarded having 'asked for' whatever occurred, despite evidence pointing to the room having been booked for the sole purpose of two males using it for sexual activity should one of them be able to inveigle a random female to 'go home' with him.

The law is clear but those who rape, or who are apologists for rape, have a vested interest in claiming that it is obscure.  Having re-read the Appeal Court judgement handed down on Evans' second application for leave to appeal, posted in full upthread and in précis form here http://ukcriminallawblog.com/2012/11/28/ched-evans-appeal-refused/ I await the findings of the CCRC with unbated breath.  

In the meantime I will continue to follow this ongoing case http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/rape-trial-footballer-allegations-cost-me-leeds-united-contract-1-7074720

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Ched Evans case

Post by G-Unit on 29.01.15 18:21

I would say my view of women is not misogynistic but realistic as is my view of men. Not all women are innocent and truthful. Not all men are continually plotting to rape women.

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Re: ***NEW 14.10.16 - CHED EVANS NOT GUILTY*** (was: CHED EVANS WINS APPEAL 21.4.16 RAPE CONVICTION QUASHED*** (was: Ched Evans case))

Post by ultimaThule on 29.01.15 18:35

The victim in this case has no recollection of what took place, G-Unit. Are you implying that she is lying? If so, I would ask you to consider why she made no complaint of rape against either defendant and note that the prosecution was police-driven.

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Ched Evans case

Post by G-Unit on 29.01.15 19:18

G-Unit wrote:

In the Evans case I have no idea if the woman was traumatised as rumour has it that she said she had no memory of the events at all. 
I know she didn't remember. I put 'rumour' above because I was being told to read the court transcripts and I haven't. Apparently if it ain't from the transcripts it ain't 'truth'.

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Re: ***NEW 14.10.16 - CHED EVANS NOT GUILTY*** (was: CHED EVANS WINS APPEAL 21.4.16 RAPE CONVICTION QUASHED*** (was: Ched Evans case))

Post by ultimaThule on 29.01.15 20:32

Imo not a lot can be gained from reading the transcripts of trials for the simple reason that it is not possible to assess the demeanour and manner displayed by witnesses when they gave their testimony.    

Unless it is necessary to study a particular trial in depth, for instance when preparing a case for appeal or if the intention is to write a factual or fictional account using words spoken at the time by a party or parties to the proceedings, I see no reason why anyone would wish to invest a considerable sum in aquiring a transcript which, unless the issues are straightforward, is unlikely to serve as an aid in determining why the jury reached its verdict.  

It is an established fact that Evans' victim has no recollection of the events of the night/early morning in question.  Furthermore, she made no allegation of rape against the two defendants and it would appear that the decision to prosecute was police-led.

In the event, having heard all of the evidence together with the summing up of an experienced judge, a jury of 12 members of the public, some of whom I venture to suggest may be of the same mind as yourself in respect of the probity of men and women in sexual matters G-Unit, aquitted McDonald and found Evans guilty of rape.

Two subsequent applications to the Appeal Court served to uphold Evans' conviction and sentence.  

Until such time as his conviction is declared to be unsafe, Evans remains a convicted rapist who is yet to complete his sentence and, as such, he cannot be said to be worthy of representing his country in any endeavour or of holding any position which carries the written or unwritten responsibility of being a 'role model' for the younger generation.  
 

.  .

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Ched Evans case

Post by G-Unit on 02.02.15 7:57

That isn't a good thing I agree. It's against UK law to reveal her details in the UK media, but at the moment UK law doesn't apply to what those in other countries choose to put on the internet.

In this case the UK media are telling us something that few of us would have found out for ourselves. As always with the media, I have to ask why they are doing it. Perhaps to make the case for censorship of the internet?

I think censoring the internet would be a disaster. Without it we would only know what the UK media chooses to tell us.

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Ched Evans case

Post by G-Unit on 02.02.15 8:08

As I pointed out a few posts ago;

MP's fears over new guidelines on rape: How do you prove consent was given, he asks 


critics said the guidelines threatened to undermine Britain’s long-standing principle that people were innocent until proven guilty.
Tory MP Philip Davies said: ‘It is not clear how anyone is supposed to prove that consent was given. Is the CPS really suggesting that you have to get a signed statement off someone before they have sex?
‘Nobody wants to see rapists walk free. I’m as hardline as they come on crime, but this is ridiculous. Our legal system is based on people being innocent until proven guilty and the CPS are trying to turn that on its head.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2932344/MP-s-fears-new-guidelines-rape-prove-consent-given-asks.html#ixzz3QZZr9EFc 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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Ched Evans case

Post by G-Unit on 31.08.15 10:34

I thought I'd revive this thread as it's possible that new developments are in the pipeline. Meanwhile there is more controversy around Chrissie Hynde's opinions;

[size=42]Chrissie Hynde Criticized for Comments About Rape After Revealing Sexual Assault: 'You Have to Take Responsibility'[/size]
http://www.people.com/article/chrissie-hynde-comments-rape-sexual-assault

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Ched Evans case

Post by G-Unit on 07.10.15 10:47

Well, Evans' appeal has been allowed so we shall see. I wonder why there's no outcry by feminists about other cases? For example;

[size=31]Doctor who used hospital computer to access child pornography blames stress over NHS red tape[/size]

Consultant cardiologist Dr Steven Burn avoids being banned from working as medic after blaming behaviour on stress over NHS bureaucracy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11914629/Doctor-who-used-hospital-computer-to-access-child-pornography-can-continue-to-work.html

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Re: ***NEW 14.10.16 - CHED EVANS NOT GUILTY*** (was: CHED EVANS WINS APPEAL 21.4.16 RAPE CONVICTION QUASHED*** (was: Ched Evans case))

Post by jozi on 07.10.15 11:28

G-Unit wrote:Well, Evans' appeal has been allowed so we shall see. I wonder why there's no outcry by feminists about other cases? For example;

[size=31]Doctor who used hospital computer to access child pornography blames stress over NHS red tape[/size]

Consultant cardiologist Dr Steven Burn avoids being banned from working as medic after blaming behaviour on stress over NHS bureaucracy



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11914629/Doctor-who-used-hospital-computer-to-access-child-pornography-can-continue-to-work.html
The appeal can go ahead but it don't make him innocent does it ? And yes, him the rapist climbing through the window to get away unbeknown to the girl makes him innocent eh.........NOT. Just makes you wonder how long this lot  have been playing this little matey game and filming it ? Just HOW many other girls has this happened to......I wonder ???

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Ched Evans

Post by willowthewisp on 07.10.15 13:40

Hi Jozi,
It seems as though Ched has employed a PR company to ascertain the reasoning behind Police procedures interpretation as part of his appeal,plus apparently new evidence not released to the original Jury?
I do not suppose he wants to highlight how some of his associates were filming activities from outside the bedroom window, when the allegations had taken place and how he left the scene via a fire exit, after obtaining a key from reception for the bedroom, where the incident had taken place?
But you can have close friends of yours release the identity of the injured party on Twitter?
Really nice gentleman is our Ched and associates?

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Re: ***NEW 14.10.16 - CHED EVANS NOT GUILTY*** (was: CHED EVANS WINS APPEAL 21.4.16 RAPE CONVICTION QUASHED*** (was: Ched Evans case))

Post by jozi on 07.10.15 13:54

willowthewisp wrote:Hi Jozi,
It seems as though Ched has employed a PR company to ascertain the reasoning behind Police procedures interpretation as part of his appeal,plus apparently new evidence not released to the original Jury?
I do not suppose he wants to highlight how some of his associates were filming activities from outside the bedroom window, when the allegations had taken place and how he left the scene via a fire exit, after obtaining a key from reception for the bedroom, where the incident had taken place?
But you can have close friends of yours release the identity of the injured party on Twitter?
Really nice gentleman is our Ched and associates?
Yes he's soooo innocent is poor Ched and a very good and upstanding citizen ...NOT!!!

He can employ anybody he cares to as money is no object to him and his family in his horrible quest to make him look innocent ....Shame.

What's that saying ......Oh yeah....You cannot polish a turd !!!!

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Ched Evans case

Post by G-Unit on 07.10.15 22:09

I have never said that evans should be proud of himself, what he did was bad. My interest in the case lies with the fact that after he served his time an outcry prevented him from working again. I also think that the new definitions of rape seem to allow women to behave as badly as they like without taking any responsibility for their actions. 

My recent post asks why other people with more access to young people than being a distant 'role model' can go back to work without anyone taking any notice.

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Re: ***NEW 14.10.16 - CHED EVANS NOT GUILTY*** (was: CHED EVANS WINS APPEAL 21.4.16 RAPE CONVICTION QUASHED*** (was: Ched Evans case))

Post by jozi on 08.10.15 8:27

G-Unit wrote:I have never said that evans should be proud of himself, what he did was bad. My interest in the case lies with the fact that after he served his time an outcry prevented him from working again. I also think that the new definitions of rape seem to allow women to behave as badly as they like without taking any responsibility for their actions. 

My recent post asks why other people with more access to young people than being a distant 'role model' can go back to work without anyone taking any notice.
Oh you are saying that the woman should take the blame for what happened......WHY??? Did she arrange with her fellow team mates to go out and find a girl who is too drunk to remember anything and we can both have sex with her and the others can film it !!!

She won't even know about it....Makes me wonder how many other poor girls were duped by this lot !!!

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Ched Evans case

Post by G-Unit on 08.10.15 9:02

jozi wrote:
G-Unit wrote:I have never said that evans should be proud of himself, what he did was bad. My interest in the case lies with the fact that after he served his time an outcry prevented him from working again. I also think that the new definitions of rape seem to allow women to behave as badly as they like without taking any responsibility for their actions. 

My recent post asks why other people with more access to young people than being a distant 'role model' can go back to work without anyone taking any notice.
Oh you are saying that the woman should take the blame for what happened......WHY??? Did she arrange with her fellow team mates to go out and find a girl who is too drunk to remember anything and we can both have sex with her and the others can film it !!!

She won't even know about it....Makes me wonder how many other poor girls were duped by this lot !!!
You seem reluctant to address the issue of vigilantes preventing someone from working. Ah well. 

I have made my opinions on the woman's role clear previously on this thread if you care to look back. Men have behaved badly since the dawn of time. Women have been the victims of this bad behaviour since the dawn of time. They have been raped, murdered, betrayed and had their reputations ruined by getting involved with such men. Only recently has it been suggested that a woman should take no responsibility whatsoever for her own actions.

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Ched Evans

Post by willowthewisp on 08.10.15 14:10

Hi G-unit,
Mr Evans accepted as part of his criminal conviction, the fact to be placed on a Sex offenders register.
If Mr Evans were to apply for a job application role in society and come into contact with vulnerable people, children, he by definition of his conviction and placed on the register list means he would be refused a position on those grounds?
If PR people and Lawyers were present to offer Mr Evans advice of his "criminal conviction" and at a latter stage it is found the advice offered was unsound he should take legal matters of redress with the advisers?
If as part of his appeal will be no doubt about "consensual sex", this is if both parties agree, sex acts involving Two Males could be a Criminal Act?
Mr Evans responded to an electronic message sent to him by a co-offender, whilst he was not in the hotel, he chose to go to the hotel and obtained a key to the room and the Judge at the original trial, either followed the correct guidelines of an offence having taken place or are you saying the Judge mis-directed the jury?
With regard to "visual pornography" and your assumption of how people kept their jobs in a role involving contact with people, they may have committed a sexual offence of criminality on a lower scale, which will have a direct result effecting their employment status and guidelines needed to be followed on the employment continuation.
Or are you worried that it has affected his "Football career" quote, "If you not prepared to do the time, do not commit the rcrime"?

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Re: ***NEW 14.10.16 - CHED EVANS NOT GUILTY*** (was: CHED EVANS WINS APPEAL 21.4.16 RAPE CONVICTION QUASHED*** (was: Ched Evans case))

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.04.16 10:16


____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Ched Evans

Post by willowthewisp on 21.04.16 11:44

Tony Bennett wrote:Ched Evans wins appeal - rape conviction quashed.

There will be a re-trial:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ched-evans-wins-appeal-against-rape-conviction-and-faces-retrial-a6993966.html
Hi Mr Tony Bennett,I have not read the article from the Independant,but it just shows that if you have access to funds,you can hire the best legal law firms to defend you in any new trail,OJ Simpson Murder of his wife,Nichol and her friend Ron Goldman in the wrong place when confronting the Murderer,spring to mind?

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Ched Evans: footballer cleared of rape in retrial

Post by biggles on 14.10.16 15:18

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/14/footballer-ched-evans-cleared-of-in-retrial

Ched Evans: footballer cleared of rape in retrial
Welsh international’s conviction quashed after judges let complainant’s former partners give evidence about her sex life

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Re: ***NEW 14.10.16 - CHED EVANS NOT GUILTY*** (was: CHED EVANS WINS APPEAL 21.4.16 RAPE CONVICTION QUASHED*** (was: Ched Evans case))

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.10.16 15:53

biggles wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/14/footballer-ched-evans-cleared-of-in-retrial

Ched Evans: footballer cleared of rape in retrial
Welsh international’s conviction quashed after judges let complainant’s former partners give evidence about her sex life
I guess this most unedifying case, and its (IMO) correct legal outcome, will serve as a permanent reminder to:

women not to get too drunk

and

men not to take advantage of drunk women

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Re: ***NEW 14.10.16 - CHED EVANS NOT GUILTY*** (was: CHED EVANS WINS APPEAL 21.4.16 RAPE CONVICTION QUASHED*** (was: Ched Evans case))

Post by aquila on 14.10.16 15:57

Tony Bennett wrote:
biggles wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/14/footballer-ched-evans-cleared-of-in-retrial

Ched Evans: footballer cleared of rape in retrial
Welsh international’s conviction quashed after judges let complainant’s former partners give evidence about her sex life
I guess this most unedifying case, and its (IMO) correct legal outcome, will serve as a permanent reminder to:

women not to get too drunk

and

men not to take advantage of drunk women
I hope his fiance wakes up and smells the coffee or at least her best friend and her family tell her to walk away and not look back.

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Ched Evans

Post by G-Unit on 14.10.16 19:08

I wonder if all concerned in this mess will now be allowed to get on with their lives? Two people behaved badly that night and both paid too high a price in my opinion.

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