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MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

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MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Tony Bennett on Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:05 pm

We all need a moment's silence and reflection to mourn the loss of 12 people whose freedom of speech has been so tragically terminated.

BBC News this morning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883


Freedom of speech is so dangerous to all evil-doers

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by sar on Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:15 pm

Amidst all this awful news.....

https://twitter.com/JoshHalliday

tweets from old bailey re: sun / payments to officials

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Knitted on Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:21 pm

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”  - Steven Weinberg

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Tony Bennett on Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:59 am

The victims
   

  • Charlie Hebdo editor and cartoonist Stephane "Charb" Charbonnier, 47, who had been living under police protection since receiving death threats

  • Cartoonists Jean "Cabu" Cabut, 76, Bernard "Tignous" Verlhac, 57, Georges Wolinski, 80, and Philippe Honore, 73

  • Economist and regular magazine columnist Bernard Maris, 68, known to readers as Uncle Bernard

  • Mustapha Ourrad, proof-reader

  • Elsa Cayat, psychoanalyst and columnist, the only woman killed

  • Michel Renaud, who was visiting from the city of Clermont-Ferrand

  • Frederic Boisseau, 42, caretaker, who was in the reception area at the time of the attack

  • Police officers Franck Brinsolaro, who acted as Charb's bodyguard, and Ahmed Merabet, 42, who was shot dead while on the ground.


KIlled for exercising the right to free speech:  we shall remember them




ETA:   And a THIRTEENTH (another police officer) has been killed this morning

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by PeterMac on Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:33 am


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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by aquila on Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:54 am

Enough of it all.

It's time to understand that Islam is a religion that doesn't belong in the Western world. It simply doesn't. Its values don't sit with Western world values.

I'm sorry if that offends but I've had enough. I'm not interested in Islamic schools in my city because I, and my indigenous family were here first. This is a Christian country built on Christian values. This is a tolerant country. Take Islam elsewhere and have your punch-ups elsewhere.

My country had their own punch-ups with Irish terrorists on our streets. We now have to deal with the threat of terror from Islamic fundamentalists.

Islamic fundamentalists kill each other in Islamic countries - always have. Take your fight back to those countries and piss off.

For those Muslims in my country who find Islamic terrorism offensive how come you're not on the streets protesting? How come the media pander to you, excuse you, call you peaceful people when you give no voice to your disgust at what's happening in European countries? How come you live in a country of tolerance and yet you don't exercise your right to have a go at the fundamentalists that damage you?

IN THIS COUNTRY, AS IN FRANCE, PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO A VOICE. HOW MANY MUSLIMS EXERCISE THIS VOICE? HOW MANY MUSLIM WOMEN ARE PREPARED TO EXERCISE THEIR RIGHT IN THE WESTERN WORLD TO OFFER THEIR OPINION?

If you want to enter any Christian church in UK you can, no matter what your belief. If you want to enter a mosque that's quite a different matter. There's quite a cauldron there.

I don't want to see women wearing the burqa. It's awful. It's not even compulsory other than Saudi Arabia. It's nonsense and it comes from men of Islam. I don't want to see it on the streets of UK. I want it banned. There's absolutely no reason a woman should cover her face in my country.

I'm sick of it.

I don't care if I get a knock on the door from the plod to say I'm a racist or a fascist.

Stop covering up this dreadful religion that has pervaded our country. Just stop it.

In UK and France we can mock religion in our press without fear unless it's Islam.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Tony Bennett on Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:23 pm

@aquila wrote:Enough of it all.

It's time to understand that Islam is a religion that doesn't belong in the Western world. It simply doesn't. Its values don't sit with Western world values.

I'm sorry if that offends but I've had enough. I'm not interested in Islamic schools in my city because I, and my indigenous family were here first.

I don't want to see women wearing the burqa. It's awful. It's not even compulsory other than Saudi Arabia. It's nonsense and it comes from men of Islam. I don't want to see it on the streets of UK. I want it banned. There's absolutely no reason a woman should cover her face in my country.

I'm sick of it.

Stop covering up this dreadful religion that has pervaded our country. Just stop it.

I don't care if I get a knock on the door from the plod to say I'm a racist or a fascist.
It looks like Sonia Poulton - she who has now taken up the cudgels on behalf of the late Brenda Leyland and is promising us (5 months after Richard Hall's 4.5-hour Madeleine film) 'The Untold Story of Madeleine McCann' - is calling anyone opposing Islam "Islamophobes having multiple orgasms to re-inforce prejudice".

Here is her latest wisdom - on Twitter, where else:

  
Sonia Poulton @SoniaPoulton · 15 hrs  15 hours ago

Islamophobes are having multiple orgasms on Twitter. They love nothing more than something to re-inforce prejudice. More tragic, the better



With carefully-chosen words like that, her 'Untold Story' is bound to be a hit! 

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by aquila on Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:03 pm

I don't want to eat Hal Al meat because it's forced upon me by supermarkets to placate muslims.

I don't want to see ghettos in my country where muslims choose to dwell and live secular lives.

Mosques aren't just those great big buildings here. Mosques are terraced houses in ghettos (people like to call it 'the Asian community') which are bought and paid for with grants and tax relief.

Islamaphobia? what the hell is that?

Crikey, another apology for upsetting the muslim community.

Perhaps Sonia Poulton can do an in depth interview with Islamic burqa/hijab wearing women living in UK today and ask them about their absolute right to a voice in this country. She'll have to get their husbands' permission first of course and then pass it by the Imam.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Joss on Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:37 pm

Do they even know who did this yet? I read elsewhere the perps. spoke perfect french?

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:39 pm

@Joss wrote:Do they even know who did this yet? I read elsewhere the perps. spoke perfect french?

Why wouldn't they?

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Jamming on Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:41 pm

@aquila wrote:I don't want to eat Hal Al meat because it's forced upon me by supermarkets to placate muslims.

I don't want to see ghettos in my country where muslims choose to dwell and live secular lives.

Mosques aren't just those great big buildings here. Mosques are terraced houses in ghettos (people like to call it 'the Asian community') which are bought and paid for with grants and tax relief.

Islamaphobia? what the hell is that?

Crikey, another apology for upsetting the muslim community.

Perhaps Sonia Poulton can do an in depth interview with Islamic burqa/hijab wearing women living in UK today and ask them about their absolute right to a voice in this country. She'll have to get their husbands' permission first of course and then pass it by the Imam.

bravo  and for your previous post. 



Here's an interesting interview on the subject of yesterdays appalling events, with that most charming of characters, Anjem Choudary


http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/01/07/hannity-clashes-radical-imam-anjem-choudary-following-charlie-hebdo-terror-attack

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Joss on Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:47 pm

Dee Coy wrote:
@Joss wrote:Do they even know who did this yet? I read elsewhere the perps. spoke perfect french?

Why wouldn't they?
That's assuming they were Mussies, as a lot of people are assuming, and depending on their background. Were they born & raised there or elsewhere and migrated? I don't think we should assume anything about the perps. because who knows who they really are? Have the police caught & identified them yet?

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Knitted on Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:53 pm

@ Aquilla

Have you ever watched Pat Condell's videos on YouTube ?

He's a passionate Secular Humanist and defends the rights of people to do, and believe in, what they wish (as I do).  I've no doubt if he saw racist behaviour in the street he'd be one of the few to challenge it, (as I have done)... hence he has a big beef with the regressive and restrictive religion of Islam, (as I do).     

Here's an eloquent defence of why people should openly be 'anti-Islamic', (i.e. Challenge it, ridicule it and expose it)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIaGWURONRU

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Joss on Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:57 pm

Is it coincidence that recently we have had Ottawa, Sydney & now Paris? Hmmmmm......

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by aquila on Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:01 pm

@Jamming wrote:
@aquila wrote:I don't want to eat Hal Al meat because it's forced upon me by supermarkets to placate muslims.

I don't want to see ghettos in my country where muslims choose to dwell and live secular lives.

Mosques aren't just those great big buildings here. Mosques are terraced houses in ghettos (people like to call it 'the Asian community') which are bought and paid for with grants and tax relief.

Islamaphobia? what the hell is that?

Crikey, another apology for upsetting the muslim community.

Perhaps Sonia Poulton can do an in depth interview with Islamic burqa/hijab wearing women living in UK today and ask them about their absolute right to a voice in this country. She'll have to get their husbands' permission first of course and then pass it by the Imam.

bravo  and for your previous post. 



Here's an interesting interview on the subject of yesterdays appalling events, with that most charming of characters, Anjem Choudary


http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/01/07/hannity-clashes-radical-imam-anjem-choudary-following-charlie-hebdo-terror-attack
He needs to be deported. Right now.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by aquila on Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:09 pm

@Knitted wrote:@ Aquilla

Have you ever watched Pat Condell's videos on YouTube ?

He's a passionate Secular Humanist and defends the rights of people to do, and believe in, what they wish (as I do).  I've no doubt if he saw racist behaviour in the street he'd be one of the few to challenge it, (as I have done)... hence he has a big beef with the regressive and restrictive religion of Islam, (as I do).     

Here's an eloquent defence of why people should openly be 'anti-Islamic', (i.e. Challenge it, ridicule it and expose it)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIaGWURONRU
Thank you. This is perfect.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Knitted on Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:29 pm

... apparently, people have been doing rough analysis of various European Arabic-language Social Media sites and it seems to show that the average ratio of those condemning the murders outweighs those supporting the murders by roughly 2 to 1.  It's shocking to think that a third of people on those sites think murder is an appropriate response to satire.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Smokeandmirrors on Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:53 pm

@Knitted wrote:... apparently, people have been doing rough analysis of various European Arabic-language Social Media sites and it seems to show that the average ratio of those condemning the murders outweighs those supporting the murders by roughly 2 to 1.  It's shocking to think that a third of people on those sites think murder is an appropriate response to satire.
This is the reality of the situation. Apologists, liberals, those who shriek "islamaphobia" are leading us into a living he'll unless we wake up. This will be happening all over Europe on a regular basis unless the ostriches pull their heads out of the ground.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by plebgate on Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:56 pm

Can't really sum it up in words as it is such a tragedy.   

Free speech must remain, maybe this terrible event will show our "leaders" just that.    yes

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Silverspeed on Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:31 pm

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/police-operation-under-way-as-paris-cop-dies/ar-AA7UzZE?ocid=HPCDHP

Further to the above article I've just seen Martin Brunt on Sky News together with Kay Burley reporting on the appalling events in Paris.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Joss on Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:53 am

Millions of Innocents have been killed in the Western "War on Terror" and still many die every day with drone strikes etc., and no one bats an eyelid, but a few get killed in western society by the "enemy", and the media goes crazy.
For those who can't stand peoples of a middle eastern culture living in your country, go tell it to your Government for letting them into your country to practice their culture where you live, or i guess you could always move elsewhere if you don't like it, but immigration has been around for a very long time, and who gets to say who is allowed in or not?
The word "Islamaphobia" i believe means setting people in society against those they deem responsible for the problems of hatred in their society, and pitting us against them in meeting hatred with yet more hatred. People practicing their muslim faith are now being targeted and attacked in the street by non muslims. That is exactly what certain tpb want for us to enter into a civilian war with them so they can further enforce their Police states, and to further their agenda on the perpetual "War On Terror".
Job done!  And JMO.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Angelique on Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:22 am

I would agree with tolerance for all but I don't see any from these Muslims who murdered and injured people in the name of their religion.

I would have to say I also agree with aquila.

We don't need a religion in this country that doesn't countenance other religions.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by aquila on Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:55 am

Whilst I accept what you are saying Joss, I feel the need to add my opinion and will no doubt be called 'islamaphobic' for it. Please bear with me.

I live in a large provincial city in UK. I was born here. I've seen immigration from my early days and I've seen integration. You see,  integration is the key word.

When I see the building of huge mosques in a Christian country within a very short space of time it concerns me.

When I see what I can only describe as 'muslim ghettoes' it concerns me.

When I see secular schools for muslim children it concerns me.

When I pass through an inner city muslim ghetto on the bus and see male muslim children, arriving home from school to don their hats and go to 'prayer houses' (old terraced houses complete with grants/funding/tax relief) to be indoctrinated with the words of their religion it concerns me.

When I see a 'muslim council' in my country it concerns me.

When I see see arranged marriages it concerns me.

When I see muslim women wearing burqas it concerns me.

When I see a religion that separates men and women in my country it concerns me.

When I see a religion where religion comes before all else, no affiliation to any country, to any community, to anything but the religion it concerns me.

When I see how difficult it is for muslim men and women to ever openly criticize their own religion it concerns me.

When I see so little lack of choice for muslim men and women due to indoctrination it concerns me.

When I see the lack of any cultural enrichment through integration it concerns me.

Here's the biggies...

When I see the society into which I was born, a free society where political correctness now strangles us it concerns me.

When I see muslims unable to appreciate, enjoy and adopt that freedom it concerns me.

When I see paltry mutterings from Islamic religious leaders that excuse fundamentalists that concerns me.

No-one has the right in Islam to criticize. That concerns me.

No-one in a 'muslim community' can exercise the right to free speech that my ancestors fought for. That concerns me.

There's a huge elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring and apologizing for.

I make no apologies for my opinion.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Joss on Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:44 am

@aquila wrote:Whilst I accept what you are saying Joss, I feel the need to add my opinion and will no doubt be called 'islamaphobic' for it. Please bear with me.

I live in a large provincial city in UK. I was born here. I've seen immigration from my early days and I've seen integration. You see,  integration is the key word.

When I see the building of huge mosques in a Christian country within a very short space of time it concerns me.

When I see what I can only describe as 'muslim ghettoes' it concerns me.

When I see secular schools for muslim children it concerns me.

When I pass through an inner city muslim ghetto on the bus and see male muslim children, arriving home from school to don their hats and go to 'prayer houses' (old terraced houses complete with grants/funding/tax relief) to be indoctrinated with the words of their religion it concerns me.

When I see a 'muslim council' in my country it concerns me.

When I see see arranged marriages it concerns me.

When I see muslim women wearing burqas it concerns me.

When I see a religion that separates men and women in my country it concerns me.

When I see a religion where religion comes before all else, no affiliation to any country, to any community, to anything but the religion it concerns me.

When I see how difficult it is for muslim men and women to ever openly criticize their own religion it concerns me.

When I see so little lack of choice for muslim men and women due to indoctrination it concerns me.

When I see the lack of any cultural enrichment through integration it concerns me.

Here's the biggies...

When I see the society into which I was born, a free society where political correctness now strangles us it concerns me.

When I see muslims unable to appreciate, enjoy and adopt that freedom it concerns me.

When I see paltry mutterings from Islamic religious leaders that excuse fundamentalists that concerns me.

No-one has the right in Islam to criticize. That concerns me.

No-one in a 'muslim community' can exercise the right to free speech that my ancestors fought for. That concerns me.

There's a huge elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring and apologizing for.

I make no apologies for my opinion.
Aquila, You don't have to apologize for your opinion, everyone is entitled to what they think, and as for my own opinion i am currently living in a very multicultural country that is full of people from different countries, including lots of people from all over the middle east. They have their mosques etc. too, but those people don't really concern me. I don't know any people of that persuasion, so can only form my opinion on what others that do know some of those people say. And i also see that Govt. has had a lot to do with the climate of things with their "War on Terror". I would much prefer that we stay out of those countries and let those countries deal with their own problems. Can western politics really be right in running their agendas there, and not expect retaliation, i don't think so. Hatred only begets more hatred . If there is any blame to be laid it is surely on the Govt.'s that instigate these situations. Bush & Blair should be tried in the Court for treason and crimes against humanity IMO, and anyone else that has been a party to such on their fake war on terror to invade Iraq etc. Why are we still even there, what a waste of taxpayer money that could be better spent to help people that are most needy in our own backyard.
I think as far as wearing burqas and whatever other garb they wear maybe that should be one of the conditions of migrating to a western country, that they will have to drop all that, namely their religion to live there, and then they could choose if they really want that or not before entering. And should they tell those people that if they came in under different rules, that it has now changed and give them a plane ticket back if they are not okay with that? I think its an issue that is now full of complexities, but we all had it foisted upon us even if we didn't agree with it, so we have no choice except to practice tolerance toward those who are different, and there is also a lot of fear mongering from the media to add to the mix. IMO.

There are good and bad in every culture that much i know.

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Re: MASSACRE in Paris this morning - 12 members of anti-Islam satirical magazine gunned down - gunmen flee

Post by Joss on Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:53 am

@Angelique wrote:I would agree with tolerance for all but I don't see any from these Muslims who murdered and injured people in the name of their religion.

I would have to say I also agree with aquila.

We don't need a religion in this country that doesn't countenance other religions.
LOL, So you don't think Christianity has killed lots of people in the name of their religion either? They burnt the heretics at the stake, all in the name for the love of their God. Most religions aren't really all that tolerant of other religions, and everyone claims they have the "Truth". All religion does is instill intolerance and hatred IMO and sets people apart from others that don't "believe" what they believe.
I have seen that in my life, the intolerance of so called christians, yet they claim their love and tolerance, what a joke.
IMO all Abrahamic religions which is Christianity, Judaism & Islam are a scourge upon this planet. I could care less for any of it. Religion has never made anyone's life better in all the time it has been around, people still hate each other and kill each other, so what good is it? Are they all determined to fulfill their prophecies that their wonderful holy books say? Seems like it to me, look at the hell that has been created on this planet that will eventually culminate in something very drastic for all of us. Maybe we'll all become extinct like the dinosaurs? We create our own problems through our own selfish actions, and no God has anything to do with that, if he even exists that is.

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