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Libel trial summing up - daily mail

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by joyce1938 on 16.12.14 22:25

I also hope they loose , I agree they should not be able to keep up this suing game.its good goncola retained some pension ,but at one stage he looked so ill,thankfully he begins to look better now ,joyce1938

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by aiyoyo on 16.12.14 22:50

I expect them to lose, and I suspect they expect it too.
They would not have caved in otherwise, and caved in they did but faced rejection.

When they lost the appeal to have the injunction overturn reinstated they knew the odds were staked against them. 

Who ever heard of plaintiffs seeking to settle out of court with the very people they sued? It's almost unheard of, and in very rare instance, only if the plaintiffs knew they are heading towards a train where withdrawal is not an option and not without adverse consequences. Filing in bad faith if not a crime of malice, at the very least is a misdemeanor risking severe admonishment by Court or maybe more penalty.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Realist on 18.12.14 14:49

@joyce1938 wrote:I am sure that mr amarals money was frozen ,some years ago ,he informed us he had to move in with father at one stage and lost his dad so not certain where he lived after that . he told us he was on the breadline and could barely  get by  and feed himself ,told us his close friend s and us kept him goin on . Can someone else recall this ? I would think so if have been on here few years. His marriage broke down and he had to move out to protect his wife , I hopem one day he will be able to realize money back ,its been a terrible burden on his li ife now for 7 years .  he doesn't deserve to have been taken for his own money eh ? What commitment does this show us all ? joyce1938

Have you ever heard of a case where an individual subjected to a libel suit, bankruptcy, restititution order,confiscation order etc. hasn't pleaded poverty, Joyce. big grin

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by plebgate on 19.12.14 15:55

@Realist wrote:
@joyce1938 wrote:I am sure that mr amarals money was frozen ,some years ago ,he informed us he had to move in with father at one stage and lost his dad so not certain where he lived after that . he told us he was on the breadline and could barely  get by  and feed himself ,told us his close friend s and us kept him goin on . Can someone else recall this ? I would think so if have been on here few years. His marriage broke down and he had to move out to protect his wife , I hopem one day he will be able to realize money back ,its been a terrible burden on his li ife now for 7 years .  he doesn't deserve to have been taken for his own money eh ? What commitment does this show us all ? joyce1938

Have you ever heard of a case where an individual subjected to a libel suit, bankruptcy, restititution order,confiscation order etc. hasn't pleaded poverty, Joyce. big grin
Yes I remember joyce1938.    He did at one time look quite ill also.   This has certainly drained him but he aint called Rocky for nowt.  clapping

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by joyce1938 on 19.12.14 18:40

I have no proof of anyone I have known ,pretend not have anything ,and be sued ,so I cant quote anyone . What I di think is I trust Mr Amaral to tell truth ,he may have money one day ,but just not at present .  His books were supposed to be sent back after a court issued that ,after the macs tried to su him , it seems he never got them back for a very long time ,now they aren't news anymore ,so will possably never be used. It seems the macs solicitor ,kept them back for a good length of time after she had been told to from court. How do some get away with such behaviour  after being told to send back ? joyce 1938

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 20.12.14 5:30

@joyce1938 wrote:I have no proof of anyone I have known ,pretend not have anything ,and be sued ,so I cant quote anyone . What I di think is I trust Mr Amaral to tell truth ,he may have money one day ,but just not at present .  His books were supposed to be sent back after a court issued that ,after the macs tried to su him , it seems he never got them back for a very long time ,now they aren't news anymore ,so will possably never be used. It seems the macs solicitor ,kept them back for a good length of time after she had been told to from court. How do some get away with such behaviour  after being told to send back ? joyce 1938
I agree, and i don't think someone would be able to plead poverty in such a case because that can easily be checked out. I would imagine all income & assets would have to be declared before the Court can establish what type of penalty to inflict upon a person. From what i read about Mr. Amaral's predicament he had to survive on half of his pension. All his assets were frozen and remain so to date, i think until this whole fiasco is sorted out by the Judge.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by joyce1938 on 20.12.14 13:01

Thanks for your support joss,glad that some do recall a lot about that time ,was really sad to know at that time too ,he looked a broken man .joyce1938

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 20.12.14 13:54

@joyce1938 wrote:Thanks for your support joss,glad that some do recall a lot about that time ,was really sad to know at that time too ,he looked a broken man .joyce1938
You're welcome joyce, just from remembering what i posted recently about all of what happened to Mr. Amaral.
Here is an excerpt from Joana Morais blog:

The interim measure [injunction] was filed at the 1st Civil Court of Lisbon in June 2009 and was allowed. The McCanns gained all the still due book authorship rights, half of Amaral's retirement pension as well as his “share [moiety, half] of their rural property” in Olhão. In July this year, the house division in two parts at the registry office was refused on the grounds that it affected a common asset.

The McCann couple via their lawyer [Isabel Duarte] applied for Sofia Leal to execute a separation of assets, as foreseen by law. She refused and in August the court carried into completion the full arrest. “My husband and I have never abandoned our daughters, or allowed paedophiles in our circle of friends. I am shocked that a couple who affirm to be religious is seeking out to destroy our family”, said Sofia Leal.


Yes Mr. Amaral has been very affected by the McC's actions against him. I hope he will too receive justice one day soon. The McC's have left a trail of victims in their wake.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Guest on 20.12.14 14:08

Amaral and his family, Joss.  Thanks for bringing it to our attention again.  The above is quite shocking, IMO.  Did Amaral and his now ex-wife have to sell the property eventually?  Why hasn't the UK MSM published this information.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 20.12.14 14:32

Ladyinred wrote:Amaral and his family, Joss.  Thanks for bringing it to our attention again.  The above is quite shocking, IMO.  Did Amaral and his now ex-wife have to sell the property eventually?  Why hasn't the UK MSM published this information.
Hi Ladyinred, Yes it's horrible what happened to him and his family. Didn't someone kill their dog too? I remember ages ago reading about it. I am not sure if the family property had to be sold, but at a guess i would say they did.
I'm not sure about the U.K. media publishing any of it? The U.K. media is usually printing McCann stories in their favour.


he suffers from a critical illness (diabetes in the last degree) which has weakened him immensely.

"He is very ill. He lost over 50 kilos [110 lbs] and he has locked himself in his father's house. He doesn't even go to Júlia Pinheiro's talk show in SIC any longer. The Maddie case has ruined his life, personally and professionally. Now with the searches that are being carried out in the Algarve, it seems that he was right after all. Even the British authorities now believe the girl may be dead. Otherwise these searches would make no sense whatsoever. It's funny how the McCanns are so silent", said a Judiciary Police officer from the Algarve, who accompanied the searches made by the British on the field. "Up to now, and even though there's plenty of material to analyse, only bones of cats and dogs were found. Of the child, not a single trace", he added.
Statements which lead the parents of the child to sue the former inspector, seizing all his assets and pushing him to the financial situation where he finds himself in today. The book was taken off the markets in 2009, in the fulfilment of a judicial decision following an injunction made by Madeleine McCann's parents. The British couple froze all his bank accounts, seized his movable and immovable assets, and the inspector was left only with his retirement wage, which was eventually also seized by the couple.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/goncalo-amaral-sick-and-bankrupt.html

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 20.12.14 14:36

I thought this bit was interesting from the same article:

It should be noted that, as to what VIP was able to establish, Maddie's parents no longer have the legitimacy to take legal proceedings related to the case, since they have already lost, by order of the English High Court, the tutelage of the missing child. In fact, according to the English law, after seven years if the body of a missing person isn't found, the person can be officially declared dead. Maddie's parents, however, have not yet applied for a death certificate.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 20.12.14 15:17

This was Joana's reply to someone that was asking about the Amaral property/home;


The Court did not reject it; it was «deferido» i.e. allowed, permitted.

The registry office [Conservatória de Registo] was the one who opposed due to Sofia Leal assets being targeted with Gonçalo Amaral ones.

A small side note: To have common assets, goods, properties its usual and natural, either if you are married or living with your partner (independently of gender) for a number of x years (União de Facto/Casamento Civil) - which independently of having or not pre-nuptial agreements entitles one to certain rights & protections and also obliges to other judicial/bureaucracy related issues. Far to tricky to explain.

Therefore when Sofia Leal refused to separate her assets from Amaral's, which would oblige them to divorce; the court seized, arrested (whatever you call it) their house.

Why? To secure enough goods to pay the McCanns claim - this is to say, just in case he looses the trial there will be enough assets to pay for that 1.2 million euros claim.

Now, let us go back to our reality, the Portuguese reality.

Not in one hundred years a retired cop can afford all the judicial costs having his assets seized - who due to being forced to resign earlier from a job that he had a passion for - and if you follow the case you should know why he resigned from the PJ - receives today less xy per cent of what could be his pension if only....
Not a cop, not a Minister, do you understand?

Not even with the profits made with a book [in Portugal if a book is a best seller does not mean that you get rich, in fact the authorship rights gives you just an x percentage, not the entirety of the book price]. Moreover, certainly not with «interview’s funds» as one imbecile UK hack wrote.

I will leave you with a quick example, recently 6 out of 7 arguidos where accused after a trial that lasted years, after what was probably the hugest trial in Portugal, ok? The maximum these arguidos are going to pay to their victims, as alleged in the Court, is 25.000 euros.

This McCann action, this absurd and outrageous action filled by the negligent couple, based on [I don’t know what] to get to the 1,2 million euros is done to silence the man, to destroy him and his family, the McCann are obsessed with Amaral.

For fuck sake, if what is in the process is what was mirrored in the book, in a very much more light and sympathetic manner regarding the horrid couple, then why don’t the McCanns sue the Public Ministry? Or the Portuguese State?

In fact, why they don’t sue each one of us, Portuguese Citizens?

We, who have spent far much more with the investigation of a child they've lost because of their irresponsible acts; than with all, the very much real, abducted Portuguese children!?

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by aiyoyo on 20.12.14 15:52

The McCanns and their vertical challenged lawyer, ID, in pre-empting a win had Amaral's assets frozen is an act of pure evil.  Three parties were named in the suit, why was asset freezing imposed on Amaral, why not to the other two integral parties?  It's patently clear the Mcs want to completely wipe out Amaral's family financiall, and destroy the man in every way.

If I should pray that Kate and Gerry and their lawyer ID will feel fear when defeat and reputation ruination etc stare them in the face, it's only par for the course, and they have only themselves to blame. And I should think they can't regard me as "hater" or "troll" since I'm only emulating the disgusting behavior of the horrible St. Kate of Rothley.  

I'd include Martin Brunt in the same basket as Kate & Gerry, and hope that him too will feel the same fear as the kind he invoked in Brenda Leyland. If he finds himself as a consequence of that, be in trouble with the law, facing arrest and ruination then he deserves everything coming his way.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by aiyoyo on 20.12.14 16:04

@Joss wrote:I thought this bit was interesting from the same article:

It should be noted that, as to what VIP was able to establish, Maddie's parents no longer have the legitimacy to take legal proceedings related to the case, since they have already lost, by order of the English High Court, the tutelage of the missing child. In fact, according to the English law, after seven years if the body of a missing person isn't found, the person can be officially declared dead. Maddie's parents, however, have not yet applied for a death certificate.

You think the avaricious McCanns would hesitate to apply for MBM to be declared dead if there's monetary gain in it?  Of course not!  If they'd taken out a hugh insurance on Madeleine they would have wanted her to be found dead or be declared dead so that they can get their hand on the insurance money.

Normally there's more pressing reason to apply for missing adult to be delcared dead for legal and assets release reasons, but same urgency does not apply to a missing child.  Besides if they were to set this in motion, donation will stop, and also they wont be able to continue to market MBM as commodity to sell merchandise.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 20.12.14 16:11

@aiyoyo wrote:The McCanns and their vertical challenged lawyer, ID, in pre-empting a win had Amaral's assets frozen is an act of pure evil.  Three parties were named in the suit, why was asset freezing imposed on Amaral, why not to the other two integral parties?  It's patently clear the Mcs want to completely wipe out Amaral's family financiall, and destroy the man in every way.

If I should pray that Kate and Gerry and their lawyer ID will feel fear when defeat and reputation ruination etc stare them in the face, it's only par for the course, and they have only themselves to blame. And I should think they can't regard me as "hater" or "troll" since I'm only emulating the disgusting behavior of the horrible St. Kate of Rothley.  

I'd include Martin Brunt in the same basket as Kate & Gerry, and hope that him too will feel the same fear as the kind he invoked in Brenda Leyland. If he finds himself as a consequence of that, be in trouble with the law, facing arrest and ruination then he deserves everything coming his way.
I agree, may they reap what they have sown. Why not just get Amaral's book banned, Why did they want to destroy the man and his wife and children completely? It just goes to show their evil nature IMO. They have no care for anyone but themselves. It's always the kate n' gerry show. And again, how has this helped them find Madeleine? Oh that's right, Madeleine Who??? They got over that pretty quickly.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 20.12.14 16:21

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Joss wrote:I thought this bit was interesting from the same article:

It should be noted that, as to what VIP was able to establish, Maddie's parents no longer have the legitimacy to take legal proceedings related to the case, since they have already lost, by order of the English High Court, the tutelage of the missing child. In fact, according to the English law, after seven years if the body of a missing person isn't found, the person can be officially declared dead. Maddie's parents, however, have not yet applied for a death certificate.

You think the avaricious McCanns would hesitate to apply for MBM to be declared dead if there's monetary gain in it?  Of course not!  If they'd taken out a hugh insurance on Madeleine they would have wanted her to be found dead or be declared dead so that they can get their hand on the insurance money.

Normally there's more pressing reason to apply for missing adult to be delcared dead for legal and assets release reasons, but same urgency does not apply to a missing child.  Besides if they were to set this in motion, donation will stop, and also they wont be able to continue to market MBM as commodity to sell merchandise.
I must admit i have no clue how parents of very long term missing children would deal with the same scenario in having to decide to have their child declared dead after 7 years? I would imagine there being no urgency in doing that apart from if there was some type compelling reason to do so. Otherwise it wouldn't really matter, and would be a very personal choice for the parents, depending on how they tackle that if at all.
But i think the odds from what i have researched of such a very young child being found alive after such a long time are very remote. I think most very young children that have gone missing are killed within the first hour or very soon after from reading about other cases.
And in Madeleine's case there was the cadaver evidence with two very reliable dogs, so as much as any parent doesn't want to think something terrible has happened, i think they would to take that into consideration.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by joyce1938 on 20.12.14 16:58

Thanks joss for bringing up a lot more of what mr amaral has had to endure, its very important that any new people coming onto this site can be made aware of certain factors ,and look to see if there are things they yet need to know ,what has come up is very important . It could be thought that mr amaral was dependent on some of what has been sent to him to help ,at a most desperate time ,yes it did become desperate for a man that tried to get to some truth and has sacrificed so much in order to let us know what happened ,from first part of said child going missing ..good to hear all are interested to know truth and will not be put off from what is not quite understood . we have mostly all been puzzled at what had gone on  at some time or another ,so please do not be put off anyone new here. joyce1938

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 20.12.14 17:11

@joyce1938 wrote:Thanks joss for bringing up a lot more of what mr amaral has had to endure, its very important that any new people coming onto this site can be made aware of certain factors ,and look to see if there are things they yet need to know ,what has come up is very important . It could be thought that mr amaral was dependent on some of what has been sent to him to help ,at a most desperate time ,yes it did become desperate for a man that tried to get to some truth and has sacrificed so much in order to let us know what happened ,from first part of said child going missing ..good to hear all are interested to know truth and will not be put off from what is not quite understood . we have mostly all been puzzled at what had gone on  at some time or another ,so please do not be put off anyone new here. joyce1938
That's ok. joyce. Yes you make some good points about some of the newcomers to the site. There is a lot of information on this case out in the public domain, and i think most of us want only to see justice for a little girl that has captured all our hearts, and also justice for some of the other victims in this case like Mr. Amaral & Brenda Leyland & Tony Bennett, and whoever else has been a victim of this vicious campaign against opposing opinion to this case.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by PeterMac on 20.12.14 22:07

And as BS put it
"and, like it or not, she has become the very symbol of what can happen to people who criticise Kate and Gerry McCann. "

Carter-Ruck only demanded a third of a million pounds IF they could find a single sentence, phrase, expression or interpretation of a word, which they could prove, probably,
(balanceof probabilities, remember !) ( and bearing mind that C-R and Eady J developed = invented the modern disgraceful English law of Libel . . . )  to be Libellous.

The McCanns, Mitchell, and the entire extended family team apparently demand a LIFE

One was apparently not enough.
Two so far.
Who is next
TB is the most courageous .  Whether you agree, disagree, whether you think X, or Y, or Z,  the fact remains that almost alone in this case . . .
He does not hid behind pseudonyms, his personal details, including his home address, telephone and everything else are on display
Is he to be the next victim, or do we think that having taken a third of his pension they might leave him alone.

Dr Kelly thought he was just a witness in an enquiry for Tony Blair.
Mike Todd thought he was just leading an enquiry into extraordinary rendition.

Both are dead.
I did not know Kelly
I did know Todd.


Half a bottle of gin on Snowdon ,  Paaahhhh !

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Google.Gaspar.Statements on 20.12.14 22:17

@PeterMac wrote:TB is the most courageous .  Whether you agree, disagree, whether you think X, or Y, or Z,  the fact remains that almost alone in this case . . .
He does not hid behind pseudonyms, his personal details, including his home address, telephone and everything else are on display
Is he to be the next victim, or do we think that having taken a third of his pension they might leave him alone.
Of that, there is no doubt PM.

Yet he is attacked mercilessly by cowards who hide behind anonymous usernames on certain forums. Cowards who haven't personally lifted a finger to find out what happened to Madeleine but can find fault in everything that TB does.

They make me sick quite frankly.

For TB. Yes, you make mistakes as we all do but when you balance those mistakes with everything else that you do for Madeleine then I really fail to understand the venom   roses

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Guest on 20.12.14 22:21

PeterMac, I did not know that M. Todd was leading an investigation into extraordinary rendition at the time of his death.  I remember reading  press reports about him being found in N. Wales and that he had complications in his personal life.  What was the verdict?

Agree with you about TB.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by PeterMac on 21.12.14 7:10

Google "Mike J Todd, CIA rendition"
And prepare to be horrified.


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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Guest on 21.12.14 10:08

I am,  Petermac.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by unchained melody on 21.12.14 10:08

@PeterMac wrote:Google "Mike J Todd, CIA rendition"
And prepare to be horrified.

From Wiki:

After Todd was reported missing by Greater Manchester Police, rescue teams from LlanberisNorth Wales, started a search for him at 01:00 on 11 March 2008
-----------
11/3 = (33)

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Realist on 23.12.14 17:23

@Joss wrote:
I agree, and i don't think someone would be able to plead poverty in such a case because that can easily be checked out. I would imagine all income & assets would have to be declared before the Court can establish what type of penalty to inflict upon a person. From what i read about Mr. Amaral's predicament he had to survive on half of his pension. All his assets were frozen and remain so to date, i think until this whole fiasco is sorted out by the Judge.

How many people who file for bankrupcy are genuinely skint, as opposed to those who file to avoid paying their debts? Have you ever heard of 'Pheonix' companies.

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