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New DCI

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Re: New DCI

Post by Knitted on 24.03.15 17:39

@HelenMeg wrote:
@aquila wrote:Here comes the party pooper.

There are hues and cries from two members of this forum to sound a battle cry and complain to the IPCC.

The first is from Knitted who freely admits he's opted out from society, doesn't pay income tax, has several email addresses etc and has conversed with his own MP for years under a pseudonym.

The second is from Helen Meg, who I believe resides in Canada.
Hi I reside in UK !!  Do you feel it is not  good idea then?

Hi Aquilla, I don't see how my lifestyle choices detract from the pros and/or cons of me, or any other members, writing to the IPCC. If you don't agree with it that's fair enough... but I feel strongly it is worth doing. Me? I made a conscious decision some years ago to leave the rat-race. I simply do not now earn enough to pay tax. I live a very frugal life and I find it, personally, very rewarding knowing my engagement in unfettered capitalism is as negligible as possible. Yes, I have lots of email addresses, I like it that way and it's more secure. My point about my writing to my MP under a pseudonym is simply what's it got to do with him what name I use? I am free to call myself whatever I wish. I appreciate my approach to life may be unorthodox, but to imply I have some kind of agenda, or that my approach must be somehow less worthy, isn't logical. Anyway, regardless, on my email to Dame Owers I used my birth name and gave my address in full. I make no apology for trying to make a difference. Many of us here seem to have concerns about Grange's remit... so surely formally voicing those concerns is better than keeping quite . If I am missing something then please let me know what it is. All I can say, again, is that I believe writing to the IPCC is better than not writing to the IPCC. I appreciate others will disagree... and that's absolutely fine.

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Re: New DCI

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.03.15 18:40

@worriedmum wrote:Yes, I have. I do not live in Canada and I do pay taxes.  Hopefully everyone who reads this post will spend five minutes doing the same.
My mood goes up every time I read of another CMOMM member devoting a few minutes to explaining to the boss of the IPCC why they think Operation Grange is a charade, and needs to be investigated   yes  


@ worriedmum  friends

@ HelenMeg friends

@ Blue Bag    friends

@ Knitted  friends


enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk

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Re: New DCI

Post by Mo on 24.03.15 18:55

Tony some people find it difficult to put a good statement together.  I know that a copy of a letter has been put together on this thread which people could copy, but don't you think the IPCC would be a bit cheesed off receiving numerous letters saying the same thing.

Perhaps there might have been a way of one letter with a list of our email addresses attached - only those of course who gave permission.

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Re: New DCI

Post by Knitted on 24.03.15 18:56

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:Yes, I have. I do not live in Canada and I do pay taxes.  Hopefully everyone who reads this post will spend five minutes doing the same.
My mood goes up every time I read of another CMOMM member devoting a few minutes to explaining to the boss of the IPCC why they think Operation Grange is a charade, and needs to be investigated   yes  

@ worriedmum  friends

@ Blue Bag    friends

@ Knitted  friends

enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk

... and HelenMeg too!!! friends

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Re: New DCI

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.03.15 19:30

@Mo wrote:Tony some people find it difficult to put a good statement together.  I know that a copy of a letter has been put together on this thread which people could copy, but don't you think the IPCC would be a bit cheesed off receiving numerous letters saying the same thing.

Perhaps there might have been a way of one letter with a list of our email addresses attached - only those of course who gave permission.
Thank you.

There is absolutely no doubt that a personal letter or e-mail, from somone expressing their reasons for writing in their own words, is much more powerful, as you suggest, than merely copying and pasting someone else's letter.

A letter to Dame Ann Owers need not be long. Indeed, a concise letter with two or three key points is enough to be effective.

I think anyone who is troubled by the remit and the subsequent conduct of Operation Grange is capable of explaining the basis of the objections.

Any e-mail must be polite and respectful, and needs to set out specific reasons why you think Grange needs to be investigated.

It does not need to be long, nor written in the Queen's English



@ Knitted   Thank you, the omission of @ HelenMeg friends from my list was an oversight, which I've been pleased to correct in my post above

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Re: New DCI

Post by Nina on 24.03.15 20:00

Go on then Tony, give us a hug  big grin

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Re: New DCI

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.03.15 21:00

@Nina wrote:Go on then Tony, give us a hug  big grin
Ten for you any time Nina    friends friends friends friends friends friends friends friends friends friends

And one more for luck  friends

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Re: New DCI

Post by Nina on 24.03.15 21:43

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Nina wrote:Go on then Tony, give us a hug  big grin
Ten for you any time Nina    friends friends friends friends friends friends friends friends friends friends

And one more for luck  friends
Awwww  laughat  give over.
Mine wasn't clever with words, just straight from the heart, so if there are any members fearing they cannot put anything together just tell how you feel and why. No nastiness, no swearing, no pointy fingers, just plain and simple. Just send it  roses

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Re: New DCI

Post by HelenMeg on 24.03.15 21:55

Yes, my e-mail was not clever or particularly articulate. It just said what I felt about Operation Grange. It wasn't very long
but just raised a few points that I felt strongly about.
I dont think anyone need to feel worried about not being able to write well -just get your point across
in a short and sweet manner if necessary. We are all entitled to use this service no matter how bad our skills are at communicating..

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Re: New DCI

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.03.15 21:57

@Nina wrote:
Awwww  laughat  give over.

Shouldn't that be 'gi' o'er' where you come from? winkwink

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Re: New DCI

Post by Nina on 24.03.15 22:12

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Nina wrote:
Awwww  laughat  give over.

Shouldn't that be 'gi' o'er' where you come from? winkwink
Yes, it should Tony. 
I sat for a long time trying to put something really succinct and clever together, and couldn't cos I am neither, so just wrote from the heart then felt better. So wanted to say to members, just write, don't live with regret that you didn't.

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Re: New DCI

Post by Mo on 24.03.15 22:42

Thank you everyone for your points.  I am more of a report writer than a letter writer-I will give it a few bullet points.  Thank you

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Re: New DCI

Post by Knitted on 25.03.15 23:08

A bit of an update for those following this thread:

Today I received a written response (dated 23/5) from the IPCC to my email about Grange's remit.

I've been given a reference number and they have explained they have passed my complaint to the Professional Standards Department (PSD), of the Metropolitan Police Service Serious Misconduct Investigations Unit (SMIU). 

I am to wait 15 working days for PSD/SMIU to contact me with their response.  If I am not happy with the response from PSD/SMIU then I can appeal back to the IPCC using the reference I've been given.  That's how the process works according to the IPCC website, so no real surprise and I had to start somewhere. However, it's comforting to know that it's now formally in the system and that my quite understandable concerns will be either satisfactorily answered and assuaged, or if not, that they'll be escalated back to the IPCC for their attention.

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Re: New DCI

Post by HelenMeg on 26.03.15 10:36

Thanks for the update!

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Re: New DCI

Post by Doug D on 26.03.15 13:19

Knitted, you had more luck than I did!
 
Thank you for contacting the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).  We acknowledge receipt of your email dated  25 March 2015, the contents of which have been filed and noted on the above reference, please quote this in any future correspondence.
 
We are completely independent of the police service and are responsible for making sure that the police complaints system in England and Wales works effectively and fairly. I note your comments. For reference, the IPCC deals with certain complaints against police officers and staff in England and Wales. The rules and regulations of the police complaints system are set out in the Police Reform Act 2002, under these rules complaints can be made by members of the public who:
 
*       have been the victim of conduct you felt was inappropriate by a police officer or member of police staff
*       were present when the alleged inappropriate conduct took place, or close enough to see or hear the inappropriate conduct, or have been adversely affected* by the incident
*       are distressed as a result of a friend or a relative being treated badly by the police
*       are acting on behalf of any of the above.
 
*Being adversely affected may include distress, inconvenience, loss or damage, or being put in danger or at risk. This might apply for example, to other people present at the incident or to the parent of a child, young person or friend of the person directly affected.
 
As such, I am unable to forward your correspondence as a complaint to the force as it does not appear to fall within the categories above. If you would like to register your comments with the Metropolitan Police, you may wish to send them to the force's Directorate of Professional Standards (DPS): email: dpsmailbox-.cst@met.pnn.police.uk
 
If you have any queries on the information above, do not hesitate to contact us.
 
Yours sincerely
 
Hannah Reek
Customer Contact Advisor
Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC)
PO Box 473
Sale
M33 6FS
Tel: 0300 020 0096
Email: enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk

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Re: New DCI

Post by BlueBag on 26.03.15 13:29

Looks like someone a bit higher up has made a policy regarding complaints about OG.

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Re: New DCI

Post by Doug D on 26.03.15 13:40

Probably can’t argue with 2, 3 & 4, but as a taxpayer have I not:
 
‘ been the victim of conduct you felt was inappropriate by a police officer or member of police staff’?

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Re: New DCI

Post by BlueBag on 26.03.15 13:43

If you have to be a victim before you make a complaint, then any taxpayer is a victim of OG throwing money at an investigation with a limited remit.

Victims of inappropriate conduct by whoever decided the boundaries of the investigation.

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Re: New DCI

Post by Knitted on 26.03.15 13:53

Intriguing!

Maybe it's just a case of the luck of the draw on who replied to our respective emails?   Or maybe if they've all of a sudden received a few too many emails about Grange (either from those interested in justice who want to challenge/clarify the remit, or from others who want it closed down) and so they've started to bounce anything with 'Grange' back?

... Or maybe those with something to be concerned about and who monitor this site have made a few phonecalls and exerted some influence?

Anyway, my calendar has a big X on it for when the 15 working days is up so I hope to have had a satisfactory reply by then. Failing that I'll follow the formal process, tenaciously until my personal complaint is satisfactorily answered.

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Re: New DCI

Post by Nina on 26.03.15 16:42

I have received the same reply as Doug D.

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Re: New DCI

Post by espeland on 26.03.15 16:48

@Nina wrote:I have received the same reply as Doug D.


Me too sad

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Re: New DCI

Post by Doug D on 26.03.15 17:37

At least the IPCC cannot claim in the future that they were unaware of any problems with Operation Grange!
 
‘Knitted’s complaint has seemingly got through the system prior to some presumably ‘higher authority’ clamping down and ordering any further complaints to be rebuffed, but even so, they have acknowledged and referenced the other complaints, noted our comments and acknowledged that they have been read as  ‘am unable to forward your correspondence as a complaint to the force as it does not appear to fall within the categories above’ can only have been ascertained after having been read in full.
 
With parliament being dissolved there is probably little point in taking it any further today, but give it a couple of weeks and we can make it one of the first matters to receive attention on the desks of the newly elected MP’s.

 
Eta:
 
Nina, espeland and others:
 
Out of interest has your response come from the same (Hannah Reek) or a different ‘Customer Contact Advisor’?

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Re: New DCI

Post by Nina on 26.03.15 18:18

@Doug D wrote:At least the IPCC cannot claim in the future that they were unaware of any problems with Operation Grange!
 
‘Knitted’s complaint has seemingly got through the system prior to some presumably ‘higher authority’ clamping down and ordering any further complaints to be rebuffed, but even so, they have acknowledged and referenced the other complaints, noted our comments and acknowledged that they have been read as  ‘am unable to forward your correspondence as a complaint to the force as it does not appear to fall within the categories above’ can only have been ascertained after having been read in full.
 
With parliament being dissolved there is probably little point in taking it any further today, but give it a couple of weeks and we can make it one of the first matters to receive attention on the desks of the newly elected MP’s.

 
Eta:
 
Nina, espeland and others:
 
Out of interest has your response come from the same (Hannah Reek) or a different ‘Customer Contact Advisor’?
I got a reply from Sadaf Yousaf, Customer Contact Advisor, so basically someone akin to call centre staff.

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Re: New DCI

Post by Knitted on 26.03.15 18:45

@Nina wrote:
@Doug D wrote:Snipped: 
Out of interest has your response come from the same (Hannah Reek) or a different ‘Customer Contact Advisor’?
I got a reply from Sadaf Yousaf, Customer Contact Advisor, so basically someone akin to call centre staff.
Mohammed Rahman replied to me... (my email was sent 20/3 - his reply 23/3)

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Re: New DCI

Post by espeland on 26.03.15 18:53


 
Nina, espeland and others:
 
Out of interest has your response come from the same (Hannah Reek) or a different ‘Customer Contact Advisor’?


Mine came from Sadaf Yousaf.

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