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New DCI

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Re: New DCI

Post by IKNOWWHATHAPPENED on 07.12.14 6:27

Females usually take a harder view on people that harm children.

Perhaps REDWOOD doesn't want to be remembered for playing a part in a whitewash ?

If WALL is career oriented she will tow the party line.

A sad fact of life in the force is that every day of the week deals are made, favours are called in and Rank always decides. DCI WALL is in the scheme of the 'Maddie affair' nothing. There are forces way above her involved in this and they will decide the outcome, not her.

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Re: New DCI

Post by deafoldbat on 07.12.14 8:57

agreed with above post

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FOUR women ?

Post by PeterMac on 07.12.14 9:35

1 - Helen Monteiro (PJ),
2 - Nicola Wall (Op. Grange)
3 - Alison Saunders (CPS)
and of course
4 - Theresa May (Home Secy)

It would be good to see GM brought down by women.  He would not like that at all

And let us not forget
5 - Mrs Martorell (C-R) who famously said, under oath, on the record, in the High Court, that she had NO EVIDENCE of abduction,
and was merely repeating what the two principal suspects had told her.   An astonishing admission which led Tugendhat J to muse, again in open court and on the record,
about the legal situation if it turned out that Madeleine had NOT been abducted

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Re: New DCI

Post by plebgate on 07.12.14 9:44

@PeterMac wrote:1 - Helen Monteiro (PJ),
2 - Nicola Wall (Op. Grange)
3 - Alison Saunders (CPS)
and of course
4 - Theresa May (Home Secy)

It would be good to see GM brought down by women.  He would not like that at all

And let us not forget
5 - Mrs Martorell (C-R) who famously said, under oath, on the record, in the High Court, that she had NO EVIDENCE of abduction,
and was merely repeating what the two principal suspects had told her.   An astonishing admission which led Tugendhat J to muse, again in open court and on the record,
about the legal situation if it turned out that Madeleine had NOT been abducted
Is it usual for a person's solicitor to get in the box and give evidence for their client?

So their solicitor was merely repeating what her clients had told her,  in that circumstance what would be the benefit of her agreeing to go in the witness box?

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Re: New DCI

Post by aiyoyo on 07.12.14 9:58

@PeterMac wrote:1 - Helen Monteiro (PJ),
2 - Nicola Wall (Op. Grange)
3 - Alison Saunders (CPS)
and of course
4 - Theresa May (Home Secy)

It would be good to see GM brought down by women.  He would not like that at all.

If we are including CPS, how about including Portugal parallel number, the new Prosecutor Ines Sequeira ?

Collective Women's power.
No chance Kate can act damsel in distress. She will be ignored.
GM brought down to his knees by women, can't wait, I will give anything to witness that.

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Re: New DCI

Post by plebgate on 07.12.14 10:06

So far the best thing I have seen was Tony Bennett sitting behind Mr. at the PCC hearing/meeting.    That made me laugh, it really did.

I have tried to find the photo but can't so if anyone can post it, please do.

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Re: New DCI

Post by Realist on 07.12.14 13:22

@plebgate wrote:
Is it usual for a person's solicitor to get in the box and give evidence for their client?

It wouldn't be unusual for a legal rep. to give evidence if they had anything of evidential value to add to the matter. The most common reason a legal rep. would give evidence is where there is conflict over anything relating to their client's detention in police custody, particulary their IUC.

The legal reps. notes made at the time would then become relevant evidence upon which they could be cross examined by the prosecution. I don't know about civil law, but that's how criminal law works in the UK.

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Re: New DCI

Post by PeterMac on 07.12.14 14:03

@Realist wrote:
Is it usual for a person's solicitor to get in the box and give evidence for their client?
The case was a Breach an undertaking, NOT a Libel hearing, hence it was done by affidavit, not by direct evidence.
Carter-Ruck are masters at playing this legal game, ensuring that their clients never go anywhere near the court.
They used to boast about it on their web site, but I think they have toned it down a bit recently.

In any event the question was whether TB had breached an undertaking, and so the question of whether M had been abducted was pretty well irrelevant.
The wondrous thing is that TB managed to ask the question, and the reply was given and recorded.

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Re: New DCI

Post by paddinton on 07.12.14 14:41

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/544461/Police-quiz-two-male-suspects-about-missing-Madeleine-McCann
"Her appointment means an all-woman team now heads the international investigation.
DCI Wall will be working closely with Portuguese state prosecutor Ines Sequira.
She will also attend meetings with Ana Paulo Rito, the criminal coordinator of the Policia Judiciaria in nearby Portimao, and Helen Monteiro, who leads the team of Portuguese detectives.
Meanwhile, in Lisbon on Wednesday the libel trial brought by Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry McCann against former police chief Goncalo Amaral resumes." 

So according to the Express:

The libel trial resumes on Wednesday, does this mean Mr & Mrs McCann will be in Lisbon?

There seems to be an awful lot happening and fairly suddenly........key people in Portugal next week........a woman being put in charge of OG, in fact an international 'all woman team.' Why?

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Re: New DCI

Post by Grim on 07.12.14 14:51

@PeterMac wrote:1 - Helen Monteiro (PJ),
2 - Nicola Wall (Op. Grange)
3 - Alison Saunders (CPS)
and of course
4 - Theresa May (Home Secy)

It would be good to see GM brought down by women.  He would not like that at all

And let us not forget
5 - Mrs Martorell (C-R) who famously said, under oath, on the record, in the High Court, that she had NO EVIDENCE of abduction,
and was merely repeating what the two principal suspects had told her.   An astonishing admission which led Tugendhat J to muse, again in open court and on the record,
about the legal situation if it turned out that Madeleine had NOT been abducted
Yvonne Martin is another lady who could play a major role here , I wonder what Redwood made of her concerns?

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Re: New DCI

Post by Guest on 07.12.14 15:03

@paddinton wrote:

The libel trial resumes on Wednesday, does this mean Mr & Mrs McCann will be in Lisbon?

They have given their evidence as have Amaral's side its the closing statements by the Lawyers,after which the judge will go away and make her/his decision.No need for them to be there seeing how difficult it is to arrange childcare.

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Re: New DCI

Post by JackieL on 07.12.14 15:10

WMD wrote:
@paddinton wrote:

The libel trial resumes on Wednesday, does this mean Mr & Mrs McCann will be in Lisbon?

They have given their evidence as have Amaral's side its the closing statements by the Lawyers,after which the judge will go away and make her/his decision.No need for them to be there seeing how difficult it is to arrange childcare.

LOL!!   big grin big grin

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Re: New DCI

Post by paddinton on 07.12.14 15:15

WMD wrote:
@paddinton wrote:

The libel trial resumes on Wednesday, does this mean Mr & Mrs McCann will be in Lisbon?

They have given their evidence as have Amaral's side its the closing statements by the Lawyers,after which the judge will go away and make her/his decision.No need for them to be there seeing how difficult it is to arrange childcare.

Thanks for explaining that.  

To me the timing appears to be strangely coincidental, with the OG detectives being in Portugal at the same time.

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Re: New DCI

Post by Realist on 07.12.14 16:05

@PeterMac wrote:
@Realist wrote:
Is it usual for a person's solicitor to get in the box and give evidence for their client?
The case was a Breach an undertaking, NOT a Libel hearing, hence it was done by affidavit, not by direct evidence.
Carter-Ruck are masters at playing this legal game, ensuring that their clients never go anywhere near the court.
They used to boast about it on their web site, but I think they have toned it down a bit recently.

In any event the question was whether TB had breached an undertaking, and so the question of whether M had been abducted was pretty well irrelevant.
The wondrous thing is that TB managed to ask the question, and the reply was given and recorded.

I think that you may have been directing your response to Plebgate, Peter, as it was he who asked the question ''
Is it usual for a person's solicitor to get in the box and give evidence for their client?'' not I.

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Re: New DCI

Post by PeterMac on 07.12.14 16:54

Sorry, trying to cut down the quotes sometimes backfires.

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Re: New DCI

Post by plebgate on 07.12.14 17:56

@PeterMac wrote:
@Realist wrote:
Is it usual for a person's solicitor to get in the box and give evidence for their client?
The case was a Breach an undertaking, NOT a Libel hearing, hence it was done by affidavit, not by direct evidence.
Carter-Ruck are masters at playing this legal game, ensuring that their clients never go anywhere near the court.
They used to boast about it on their web site, but I think they have toned it down a bit recently.

In any event the question was whether TB had breached an undertaking, and so the question of whether M had been abducted was pretty well irrelevant.
The wondrous thing is that TB managed to ask the question, and the reply was given and recorded.
Thanks PeterM.   So Mrs. solicitor went into the witness box to save her clients having to give evidence?   Twas indeed a wondrous thing that TB managed to ask the question and got the reply which was given and recorded.

big grin   clapping Clever TB.

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Re: New DCI

Post by PeterMac on 07.12.14 23:12

@plebgate wrote:
Thanks PeterM.   So Mrs. solicitor went into the witness box to save her clients having to give evidence?   Twas indeed a wondrous thing that TB managed to ask the question and got the reply which was given and recorded. Clever TB.

It was one of those master strokes, where LESS IS MORE.
TB's one "forensic" question shot the whole of the McCann's case to pieces, and furthermore exposed to the world that everyone,
including some of the the highest paid solicitors in the world are doing notheng more than repeating,  
Parrot fashion, ' There was an abduction, There was an abduction, Pretty Polly, Pretty Polly


The issue under consideration that day was irrelevant to what we are talking about.  That was proved or not on the basis of other things.

Tugendhat J, that day started to muse - out loud  and on the record - about the legal situation if it subsequently should turn out that
Madeleine Beth McCann had NOT been abducted between 9.15pm and 9.55pm 3/5/7
Remember that he has, in his official capacity, found it his legal duty to send a man to prison (suspended) on the basis of what he was told.

The damages would be "substantial".  False Imprisonment, Perjury, Conspiracy to  Pervert  in the Civil Court, ever mind the Criminal court . . .

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Re: New DCI

Post by suzyjohnson on 08.12.14 0:59

@PeterMac wrote:


Oh, yes, and everyone hates you, because you are blocking the promotion ladder.

Brilliant PeterMac :)

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Re: New DCI

Post by suzyjohnson on 08.12.14 1:04

@aiyoyo wrote:

ETA:  Redwood will probably be remembered for his clever invention of the Brit "Creche Father".  An invention unparalleled in the history of the MET Police Force.

Haha aiyoyo

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Re: New DCI

Post by suzyjohnson on 08.12.14 1:21

@plebgate wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:1 - Helen Monteiro (PJ),
2 - Nicola Wall (Op. Grange)
3 - Alison Saunders (CPS)
and of course
4 - Theresa May (Home Secy)

It would be good to see GM brought down by women.  He would not like that at all

And let us not forget
5 - Mrs Martorell (C-R) who famously said, under oath, on the record, in the High Court, that she had NO EVIDENCE of abduction,
and was merely repeating what the two principal suspects had told her.   An astonishing admission which led Tugendhat J to muse, again in open court and on the record,
about the legal situation if it turned out that Madeleine had NOT been abducted
Is it usual for a person's solicitor to get in the box and give evidence for their client?

So their solicitor was merely repeating what her clients had told her,  in that circumstance what would be the benefit of her agreeing to go in the witness box?

I don't think she did go into the witness box, I think this was at an earlier hearing, a few years ago, where she assumed that Madeleine had been abducted and the judge pointed out that this was not fact. I could be wrong though.
ETA, Just realised you have some replies to your question already.

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Re: New DCI

Post by Okeydokey on 08.12.14 2:20

@splurgegun wrote:according to @JerryLawton, DCI Nicola Wall, of Met's Homicide and Major Crime Command, will take over Op Grange on December 22


i wonder if a woman is less likely to go along with a whitewash?
we now have female prosecutors in Portugal and the UK, and a female DCI in the UK
i don't think they have women in the Freemasons
are women less likely to turn a blind eye to child abuse?

Wrong. There are female Mason lodges.

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Re: New DCI

Post by PeterMac on 08.12.14 8:41

@Okeydokey wrote:
Wrong. There are female Mason lodges.
There are, but they are not recognised by the majority of Traditional Freemasons.
A bit like Women Bishops !

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Re: New DCI

Post by aquila on 08.12.14 9:14

How many women are involved in Gold Command within the UK Police Service? - and that's before getting to the 'platinum command'.....which is where the decisions are really made.

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Re: New DCI

Post by woodbine on 08.12.14 10:48

I'm curious to know how she got this case PeterMac. Does her superior tell her what cases she has, or can you apply for cases that interest or best suit you? I suppose, more importantly, can you refuse a case?

As an ambitious police officer, surely she would be at least vaguely familiar with this case given it's profile. Given the complete failures of her predecessors, wouldn't she outright refuse to tarnish her name by getting involved in a case where higher powers are protecting those involved?

If that indeed what has happened etc.

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Re: New DCI

Post by PeterMac on 08.12.14 11:24

@woodbine wrote:I'm curious to know how she got this case PeterMac. Does her superior tell her what cases she has, or can you apply for cases that interest or best suit you? I suppose, more importantly, can you refuse a case?
As an ambitious police officer, surely she would be at least vaguely familiar with this case given it's profile. Given the complete failures of her predecessors, wouldn't she outright refuse to tarnish her name by getting involved in a case where higher powers are protecting those involved?
If that indeed what has happened etc.

It is interesting. She has 25 years service, and already 8 as a DCI, so still has reasonable hope of becoming a Det Supt.
She has moved reasonable rapidly, say 3 as PC, 3 as DC, 4 as DS, 4 as DI and 8 as DCI plus or minus a bit. Possibly even Det Training school, I don't have her full CV

The allocation of jobs is usually fairly obvious. It can depend on who hasn't got a lot on the go, at the moment,
to considerations about whether someone from the other end of the County should take it on.
You can certainly back out, or try to, citing involvement, too detailed knowledge etc.

But I fully agree about the poisoned Chalice aspect of the case.

Smash it, or don't touch it !

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