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Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by plebgate on 05.12.14 14:44

@aquila wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Mr. Grime knew that both he and the dogs were being recorded so why on earth would he "fix the search".  

My comment not "at" aquila but in agreement with this from her post:

"
Winters & Goose tried to fluff over it and so have a lot of people but the fact remains that dogs don't lie and no-one can tell me that Martin Grime fixed the dog search."

My opinion of course.    Well of course it's my opinion - why do we keep having to post that?   I am in such a habit now I find I can't stop.  Mr Mrs
If ever Clarrie were to 'PR' for someone and needed dogs to prove they were innocent we'd have a whole different view on the reliability of these fantastic dogs.

If you really, really want to rattle things  let the dogs out.
Yes and wasn't it British police who suggested letting the dogs out?

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by Realist on 05.12.14 17:54

@aquila wrote:

One thing I will say though is that dogs don't lie. Getting into the nitty gritty of timelines is obfuscation to a certain extent. The fact remains that two specialist dogs supplied by UK, with a previous 100% successful track record alerted to blood and cadaver scent in apartment 5A and other places.

Winters & Goose tried to fluff over it and so have a lot of people but the fact remains that dogs don't lie and no-one can tell me that Martin Grime fixed the dog search.

Martin Grime was swiftly moved on and the FSS was closed down too - after a bit of carefully constructed negativity about corrupted DNA samples. The FSS was a world leader in DNA analysis and no longer exists. Winters & Goose had a field day wiping over that.

Just my opinion.
I totally agree with you on the dog's findings and I don't dispute that the McCann's daughter died in the apt. and her body was disposed of, but not on the night of the 5th May between 8.30 pm and 10. pm. There just wasn't time for the type of serious decisions required to be made, let alone carried out.

I don't give any credence to the fact that Madelaine McCann died as a result of being left alone in the apt, it is my belief that she was dead and her body disposed of before the McCanns left for the Tapas bar. The very conception of Gerry or a kidnapper wandering the streets of Praia Du Luz openly carrying  either a corpse or reluctant captive is positively pythonesque. I also don't believe that the McCann's received any direct assistance with disposing of the body, had this been the case, they wouldn't display the confidence and arrogance that they appear to have. When your friend becomes your foe, around the world your secrets go.

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by j.rob on 05.12.14 18:12

@Realist wrote:
@aquila wrote:

One thing I will say though is that dogs don't lie. Getting into the nitty gritty of timelines is obfuscation to a certain extent. The fact remains that two specialist dogs supplied by UK, with a previous 100% successful track record alerted to blood and cadaver scent in apartment 5A and other places.

Winters & Goose tried to fluff over it and so have a lot of people but the fact remains that dogs don't lie and no-one can tell me that Martin Grime fixed the dog search.

Martin Grime was swiftly moved on and the FSS was closed down too - after a bit of carefully constructed negativity about corrupted DNA samples. The FSS was a world leader in DNA analysis and no longer exists. Winters & Goose had a field day wiping over that.

Just my opinion.
I totally agree with you on the dog's findings and I don't dispute that the McCann's daughter died in the apt. and her body was disposed of, but not on the night of the fifth May between 8.30 pm and 10. pm. There just wasn't time for the type of serious decisions required to be made, let alone carried out.

I don't give any credence to the fact that Madelaine McCann died as a result of being left alone in the apt, it is my belief that she was dead and her body disposed of before the McCanns left for the Tapas bar. The very conception of  Gerry or a kidnapper wandering the streets of Praia Du Luz openly carrying  either a corpse or reluctant captive is positively pythonesque. I also don't believe that the McCann's received any direct assistance with disposing of the body, had this been the case, they wouldn't display the confidence and arrogance that they appear to have. When your friend becomes your foe, around the world your secrets go.

This is what makes 'Smith-man' so frustrating. 

If he was real - WHO WAS HE?

If he was made up - WHY?

I think I can think of more answers to the second question than the first. As if Smith-man was just an innocent father carrying his sleeping daughter, he would have come forward to police. 

But the FACT remains that Team McCann are keen to suggest that Tanner-man and Smith-man are one and the same. So that provides evidence that Team McCann do not want Smith-man to be an unrelated sighing to Tanner-man. (Whereas, according to Kate in her book, "police appear to have considered these sightings to be unrelated on the basis of the forty-five minute gap between them.")

Which suggests, at the least, that the McCanns are very keen indeed to promote the theory that Tanner-man stole Madeleine from her bed at  9.15pm. 

And most definitely did not steal her at 10pm

It might suggest other things too. But it is undeniable that Team McCann are very keen to promote a 9.15pm 'abduction'. I wonder why this precise time is so important to them?

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by Realist on 06.12.14 2:51

'

@j.rob wrote:


Which suggests, at the least, that the McCanns are very keen indeed to promote the theory that Tanner-man stole Madeleine from her bed at 9.15pm.


I would think, Rob, that the McCanns would be keen to promote the theory that someone, anyone, took their daughter regardless of the time. There's a time honoured American criminal defence strategy AOEBM. (Anyone else but me.)

With ref. to my previous posting, I meant of course May 3rd, as opposed to the 5th. Heaven forbid I should give Aquila further cause to accuse me of being an 'eejit'

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by aquila on 06.12.14 2:59

@Realist wrote:I meant of course in my previous posting, May 3rd. as opposed to May 5th. Heaven forbid I should give further cause for Aquila to classify me as an 'eejit.'
big grin laughat titter

It's truce time - but you might wish to correct the spelling of Madeleine in your other post.

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Help me out with this one

Post by Guest on 26.02.15 5:18

"it is my belief that she was dead and her body disposed of before the McCanns left for the Tapas bar."

Interesting thought, but how does one dispose of a body in Luz in daylight AKA before the McCanns left for the Tapas bar around 8:30pm?

For perspective, on 3rd May each year it goes from dark, as in no sunlight but you can see in colour, to dark, as in no colour vision only black and white around 9:15pm (which happens to be the Jane Tanner sighting, but who cares wrt that.)

Kindly help me out with how one disposes of a body in Luz in good visibility.  After all, we are only discussing your belief. big grin

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Help me out with this one

Post by G-Unit on 26.02.15 7:35

On the 6th night of the holiday (3rd May) Kate McCann discusses two problems with Fiona Payne at dinner. She mentions Madeleine (and Sean?) crying (on Wednesday night Fiona thinks). She also asks Fiona's opinion on leaving the apartment door locked or unlocked. Fiona doesn't give her reply unfortunately. I assume Kate McCann had not discussed the unlocked apartment previously during the holiday. Was she discussing it because of the crying? That's what we are supposed to believe, I think, but IMO it could also be seen as 'scene setting' in preparation for what was to come. If so, then something happened to Madeleine McCann before 8.30pm on 3rd May.

You see, I mean, I only knew about that because on Thursday night Kate had said, erm, as we were chatting at the table 'Oh', you know, 'I wonder', you know, 'what', 'what she cried about' or, you know, she'd asked Madeleine, erm, because I think Madeleine had said something 'Where were you mummy, me and Sean cried' and, you know, 'where were you' and that had obviously worried Kate and she couldn't get anything more out of Madeleine, Madeleine had sort of moved on and, you know, didn't say anything more than that and wouldn't say, you know, whether she'd heard anything or been woken up or whether she had just woken up herself'
 She did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.
 http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by aquila on 26.02.15 9:10

I should think the easiest way of hiding in plain sight in a holiday village is to use a pushchair, a suitcase or a sports holdall.

Suitcases in particular are barely noticed apart from the noise of their wheels. Lift 'em up, put them into the boot of a car parked very near an apartment door at any time of the day or night and you would definitely not attract attention.

I'm not sure why Elca Craig has asked such a question and I'm not sure to whom the question refers as she hasn't quoted the poster.

As for where a body could be concealed, there are so many places. There's the obvious of a soak-away sewage system. I should imagine there are quite a few of those in and around Luz.

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by G-Unit on 26.02.15 12:15

I keep returning to the woman seen in the road outside the apartment block at around 8,30pm on 3rd May 2007. Jeremy Wilkins (who said it was Jane Tanner) and a woman who is not in the PJ files is alleged to have seen her;

Three years ago the Sunday Express revealed an elderly British woman living in Praia da Luz saw a Portuguese-looking woman hanging around outside the McCanns’ apartment about an hour before the abduction. Astonishingly, the woman has never given a statement to police
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/317111/Madeleine-McCann-The-lost-clues



At 8.30pm Jane Tanner decided to text her friends the Gorrods with, she says, a question about the BBQ celebrating Mr Goddard's birthday the following day. It seems a strange time to text as this was the time she left for the Tapas restaurant. It's the kind of text you would send when you were sitting talking about plans for the following day rather than sending it as you walked to the restaurant or just upon arriving, don't you think? I have no idea whether the Gorrods were asked about this BBQ or whether the police checked that the mobile number was indeed that of Mrs Gorrod.


The unnamed woman also saw a car driving towards the woman. Summoned by text perhaps?


The PJ were interested in the Gorrod's car;


To the coordinator of the criminal investigation.

In the context of the investigation, we have collected information concerning a vehicle used by RUSSELL O'BRIEN, friend and member of the group who spent their holiday with the McCann family in the Algarve . At the time of the request for vehicles considered important to the procedures that follow, we were not aware of the identification details of this vehicle. Meantime, our investigation has led us to establish that it may be a vehicle of the "Opel" range, a "Corsa" model, registration....AG - 62. At the present time, we do not have a mandate to search for and seize the vehicle to allow us to add the vehicle to the planned inspections. As a consequence, we request such a legal mandate in order to be able to realize the planned inspections. 

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm



The car was examined later, but not with the dogs, I think;


Search carried out on Opel Corsa vehicle, number plate 75-AG-62, with forensic support, nothing having been found or indicated.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CORRESPONDENCE_RENTAL_CARS.htm



Perhaps Jane did carry Madeleine........to a car? I remember Kate saying to Yvonne Martin that a couple had abducted Madeleine. I wonder why she said that?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm



If Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien were behaving strangely at 8.30pm that could explain Jane's insistence that she saw the abductor at 9.15pm. The abduction time would have had to be later for their own sakes. All IMO obviously.

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by Gaggzy on 26.02.15 13:42

It's amazing. Kate McCann not only KNOWS for certain, that Madeleine was ABDUCTED, but she obviously KNOWS that a COUPLE had abducted her, as she related this information to Yvonne Martin.

I find the timescale involved in this (reluctant) conversation she had with Yvonne Martin very interesting.

It came only a few hours after Kate and Gerry say they went out 'searching' on their own - around 6am.

Interestingly, roughly the time one George Brooks was driving near the marina, and claimed he saw a COUPLE (there's that word again) with the man carrying a small child. When they saw his car approaching, they scarpered quickly up a side street.

Now, how would Kate McCann know about this sighting barely a few hours later? They have never said - AFAIK - that someone told them about this sighting (due to the timescale, it's nigh on impossible that someone told them).

In my opinion, Kate either suffered a 'brain-leak' and involuntarily offered this information to Yvonne Martin, or it was a calculated 'offering' knowing that it was highly likely that the car driver would come forward and tell the police what he saw.

So, was this couple actually Gerry and Kate attempting to move Madeleine's body to a more secure location?

As a previous poster asked, Why did she say to Yvonne Martin that a COUPLE had abducted her?

There is no way on earth she could KNOW that - unless she actually SAW a couple abducting her child .... or, she KNEW her and Gerry had been seen by a car driver.

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by LombardySkeptik on 26.02.15 17:30

RE
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

"At this point, Kate told her (Yvonne Martin) that her daughter had disappeared 13 hours ago. It was about 10 in the morning."

That makes it a 9 PM kick-off

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Reply with quote Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by G-Unit on 26.02.15 18:04

A 9pm kick-off is possible, given the timeline suggested by Mrs Carpenter and a few Ocean Club employees. 9.20pm according to this guy;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARLINDO-PELEGA.htm

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by Seek truth on 02.03.15 6:59

Pained expression when going to court? Has anyone sent him the video of her laughing together with her lawyer INSIDE THE COURT HOUSE? Can't remember what was so funny!

Oh maybe she's happy because they have all their VIP mates on their side.
Wonder why. 
We must be all very thick.
So who's really laughing?

sarcastic

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by cbeagle on 03.03.15 6:39

@LombardySkeptik wrote:RE
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

"At this point, Kate told her (Yvonne Martin) that her daughter had disappeared 13 hours ago. It was about 10 in the morning."

That makes it a 9 PM kick-off

The reaction to Yvonne Martin was strange, given Kate had talked to someone in England a few hours earlier and appeared desperate for help locally. Then when (independently) an English expert (Yvonne) appears on the scene, she is rejected.

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Re: Steve Allen LBC 2nd December 2014 Discussing Mccann case

Post by Guest on 03.03.15 8:11

Rejected, yes

But only after having been seen, probably recognized and vetted by doctor Payne

Quick thinking of him, wasn't it?

Ms Martin must have made a strong and lasting impression on him, once

Wonder why?

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