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OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by columbostogeys on Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:40 am

@cockerspaniel wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:http://www.algarvenewswatch.blogspot.pt/2014/12/a-new-shake-up-in-madeleine-case.html


Portugal Newswatch


Reflections on current affairs in Portugal by journalist and author Len Port.

Friday, December 12, 2014

A new shake-up in the Madeleine case?

The Operation Grange investigation by the Metropolitan Police into the disappearance of  Madeleine McCann is said to be “upbeat” and set to continue despite mounting costs, a top resignation and apparently still no breakthrough in sight.

The latest episode in this extraordinary case, with Scotland Yard detectives questioning ten people in Faro, does not seem to have resulted in any meaningful progress.

The previous high point in the investigation featured British police searching across three sites next to Praia da Luz in the summer. Scorned by sceptics as a ‘whitewash’ and a ‘circus,’ the searches produced no new evidence and gave rise not only to exasperation among local citizens, but also speculation that the investigation was nearing its endgame.

The speculation heightened with news that the cost of the inquiry was approaching £10 million at a time of stringent budget cuts that could have disastrous consequences for police forces across the UK.  

The announcement that Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood was retiring from the Met as the head of Operation Grange further invigorated the notion that the case was going nowhere.

“After careful consideration and a full and rewarding career in the Met, the time is right for me to move on,” Redwood said.

A headline in the Mirror declared: “Madeleine McCann top cop quits: This does send a certain kind of message.”

The paper reported that with Redwood’s resignation, “the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann suffered a blow.” It went on to quote a source close to the inquiry: “The investigation has gone on for three and a half years now. However a lead detective would not typically stand down if they can see a result in the pipeline.”

If this did indeed send “a certain kind of message,” it was somewhat confused by the simultaneous announcement that DCI Nicola Wall was to replace Redwood as leader of the Operation Grange team.

This left some observers wondering if the latest questioning in Faro was a last ditch effort that might soon lead to a formal wrapping up of the investigation.

Not so, apparently.

Anthony Summers, co-author with his wife Robbyn Swan of the book Looking for Madeleine, told the BBC Breakfast programme that, according to his sources, the Operation Grange team is “upbeat and believes the case is solvable.”

There is said to be no political pressure, no hidden agenda and no pressure or problem about expenditure.

The team still comprises about 30 officers and support staff, essentially the same number as earlier in the investigation. The expectation is that they will continue ploughing methodically though a vast amount of information.

So, the indications are that although the investigation is taking a very long time with apparently little success, this should not be interpreted as meaning that detectives are pessimistic about the case or about to give up.

It has been known by insiders for some months that Redwood was going to retire. But immediately after the announcement, the Mirror quoted a senior Labour MP as saying: “There are times when public duty must override personal circumstances, and this is one of them. If senior officers were aware of the DCI’s retirement plans, why was he put on to this case in the first place?”

Interesting question, but this is a side issue.

The main thrust is that Nicola Wall has now met the senior Portuguese officials she will be collaborating with after formally taking command of Operation Grange on 22 December.

When Inês Sequeira was appointed Portimão’s new public prosecutor in October she was quoted in the press as being “utterly determined” to crack the case.

She has the backing of Portugal’s first woman attorney general, Joana Marques Vidal, Portimão’s PJ chief, Ana Paula Rito, and the Oporto-based PJ detective in charge of the Portuguese investigation, Helena Monteiro.

Nicola Wall has served at the Met for 26 years, most recently as head of the Murder Investigation Team in West London. Hitherto she has not had much media coverage, but that’s about to change.

Vogue magazine last year reported that she prided herself on her investigative speed; that she was only partially joking when she attributed her low media profile to the fact “we solve cases so quickly nobody gets involved.”

An omen perhaps?

snipped from above.

The team still comprises about 30 officers and support staff, essentially the same number as earlier in the investigation. The expectation is that they will continue ploughing methodically though a vast amount of information
.

SERIOUSLY!!!! Are we really meant to believe that if you rule out the Tapas 9 (as DCI redwood has done) it would take a team of 36 policemen/women 3.5 years AND COUNTING working night and day (excuse the sarcasm) to "plough" through the relevant information of a child going missing from a sleepy almost deserted little fishing village out of season with hardly a soul/witness around. Pull the other, it plays jingle bells!!! Methinks someone cant see the woods for the trees..lol


I agree with you. The one thing i find really odd in all of this is the timing.....why would anyone whether pedophle or burglar operate when the jar is half empty, and not many people about which would then make you far more conspicious if you are a stranger on the prowl. After all this is a close community out of season, lots of people know each other so they would be aware of strangers, and I do believe they run some sort of Neighbour hood watch scheme in the area.

From the way we are forced to read it, PDL is full of pedophiles, and burglars, who would want to buy a flat or house there......PRIOR to the child going missing it was just a really normal average village in Portugal with a mix of locals and Expatriates from other countries who were enjoying the tranquility of their little piece of heaven on earth.

PDL was even featured in that holiday show, cant remember the name, where you visit homes with the view to buy, and i must admit, i quite enjoyed looking at the village, the beach, and some of the villas with swimming pools made me feel I could go and live there, I am sure this was before 2007.

Why would a pedophile or ring, or burglar or ring, choose that time to go rob or take a child.....? Slim pickings comes to mind.

If they waited until it was in full season and swing, loads of people milling about it would be equally as easy to snatch a child from the beach and no one notice.......

No the timing is all off for me.

Until SY go back to the beginning and recall ALL the people who were there including the McCanns and their friends, and The Gaspars etc, we aint going no where. Not saying any of them had anything to do with it, but perhaps they too hold important information.

I also think Mrs Fenns daughter may  have heard something of interest, sure she mentioned something, has she been spoken to again?

I think to solve the case we need to start from scratch.........

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by Joss on Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:10 am

And did the killer paedophile who removed Madeleine from the apartment then store her in the McCann renault scenic some 25 or so days after that to leave decomp. evidence in the trunk of the car? And that after he left that same evidence in the McC apartment as well? Sounds like a legit story, NOT.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by woodforthetrees on Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:32 pm

@Joss wrote:And did the killer paedophile who removed Madeleine from the apartment then store her in the McCann renault scenic some 25 or so days after that to leave decomp. evidence in the trunk of the car? And that after he left that same evidence in the McC apartment as well? Sounds like a legit story, NOT.


This is the bit that always swings me back around to the perp being MrMc, but.... as with the apartment cadaver, there is no concrete evidence to say it is Madeleine. If they knew 100% that the tissue was Madeleine's and it was decomposed, then they would not be walking around freely now.

What would be great is if new DNA testing were able to prove that hairs/tissue in the boot of the car was from a deceased Madeleine, but until there is, it's inconclusive :-(

My biggest bugbear with the hire car is...how did they manage to transfer her into the boot of the car then dispose of her without anybody seeing? They were being watched 24-7.

Just playing devils advocate here and trying to get things clear in my head, so please don't shout  pray2

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by PeterMac on Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:23 pm

@woodforthetrees wrote:
My biggest bugbear with the hire car is...how did they manage to transfer her into the boot of the car then dispose of her without anybody seeing? They were being watched 24-7.
Just playing devils advocate here and trying to get things clear in my head, so please don't shout :

They didn't need to transfer her into the boot of the car. The blue bag might have been enough.
The bag that was in the wardrobe in exactly the spot indicated by one of the dogs.
If the blue bag had been used to remove her, and then put back on the shelf, and then at a later stage put into the boot of car, that might have been enough.
They then realise is is beginning to smell, and is perhaps stained . . . so they ditch it, and Mitchell denies there ever was a blue bag - which proves to the world beyond a reasonable doubt that there had been.
Madeleine had been disposed of several weeks before - probably during the afternoon of the 3rd, when everyone else was got rid of, Tapas group to the Paraiso bar, Kate on a run, and Gerry had his Achilles Tendon injury - which thanks to the intervention of The Blessed Katherine of the Multiple Immaculate Conceptions spontaneously healed by tea time.

He has several hours to hump a blue tennis bag round a resort bristling with tennis courts, whilst wearing tennis gear. In full sight he would be invisible.

Or not, as the case may be, of course !

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by Joss on Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:07 pm

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:And did the killer paedophile who removed Madeleine from the apartment then store her in the McCann renault scenic some 25 or so days after that to leave decomp. evidence in the trunk of the car? And that after he left that same evidence in the McC apartment as well? Sounds like a legit story, NOT.


This is the bit that always swings me back around to the perp being MrMc, but.... as with the apartment cadaver, there is no concrete evidence to say it is Madeleine. If they knew 100% that the tissue was Madeleine's and it was decomposed, then they would not be walking around freely now.

What would be great is if new DNA testing were able to prove that hairs/tissue in the boot of the car was from a deceased Madeleine, but until there is, it's inconclusive :-(

My biggest bugbear with the hire car is...how did they manage to transfer her into the boot of the car then dispose of her without anybody seeing? They were being watched 24-7.

Just playing devils advocate here and trying to get things clear in my head, so please don't shout  pray2
If the cadaver evidence alerted to by the dogs in the apartment was not from Madeleine then who did it belong to? No one else had died in that apartment to my knowledge in this case? 
I think the DNA evidence did point to it being from Madeleine if i recall correctly.
I'm not sure by that stage if the McC's were being watched 24/7, it was a few weeks after the initial disappearance of the child.
I really don't know exactly how or when they would of transferred Madeleine, and only the perp/s would know that.
And no, i don't shout at people, flower

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by margaret on Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:23 pm

@woodforthetrees wrote:
My biggest bugbear with the hire car is...how did they manage to transfer her into the boot of the car then dispose of her without anybody seeing? They were being watched 24-7.

Just playing devils advocate here and trying to get things clear in my head, so please don't shout  pray2

I disagree with that, there were times they asked to be left alone and were. They had PR guru Mitchell so if the press wanted photographs they used to stage little photo opportunities, like the Punch and Judy ones, the beach ones.

Also they did loads of mileage in that car it was impossible to be watched and followed 24/7.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by woodforthetrees on Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:24 pm

@PeterMac wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
My biggest bugbear with the hire car is...how did they manage to transfer her into the boot of the car then dispose of her without anybody seeing? They were being watched 24-7.
Just playing devils advocate here and trying to get things clear in my head, so please don't shout :

They didn't need to transfer her into the boot of the car.  The blue bag might have been enough.
The bag that was in the wardrobe in exactly the spot indicated by one of the dogs.
If the blue bag had been used to remove her, and then put back on the shelf, and then at a later stage put into the boot of car, that might have been enough.
They then realise is is beginning to smell, and is perhaps stained . . .   so they ditch it, and Mitchell denies there ever was a blue bag - which proves to the world beyond a reasonable doubt that there had been.
Madeleine had been disposed of several weeks before - probably during the afternoon of the 3rd, when everyone else was got rid of, Tapas group to the Paraiso bar, Kate on a run, and Gerry had his Achilles Tendon injury - which thanks to the intervention of The Blessed Katherine of the Multiple Immaculate Conceptions spontaneously healed by tea time.

He has several hours to hump a blue tennis bag round a resort bristling with tennis courts, whilst wearing tennis gear.  In full sight he would be invisible.

Or not, as the case may be, of course !

I tend to agreed with that theory to PeterMac, i'm just struggling to see how/why OG are not on the same page...

So, there is evidence in the police files about the blue bag (i have seen the photo) and it has been questioned.... if SY agreed with this evidence then it would eliminate tannerman, smithman and the whole raft of dodgy suspects. But yet OG continue to look for witnesses, suspects etc anywhere but the McCanns.

This to me seems very odd, almost like there is more evidence to back up their paedo abductor theory in the police files that haven't been released.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by woodforthetrees on Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:32 pm

@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:And did the killer paedophile who removed Madeleine from the apartment then store her in the McCann renault scenic some 25 or so days after that to leave decomp. evidence in the trunk of the car? And that after he left that same evidence in the McC apartment as well? Sounds like a legit story, NOT.


This is the bit that always swings me back around to the perp being MrMc, but.... as with the apartment cadaver, there is no concrete evidence to say it is Madeleine. If they knew 100% that the tissue was Madeleine's and it was decomposed, then they would not be walking around freely now.

What would be great is if new DNA testing were able to prove that hairs/tissue in the boot of the car was from a deceased Madeleine, but until there is, it's inconclusive :-(

My biggest bugbear with the hire car is...how did they manage to transfer her into the boot of the car then dispose of her without anybody seeing? They were being watched 24-7.

Just playing devils advocate here and trying to get things clear in my head, so please don't shout  pray2
If the cadaver evidence alerted to by the dogs in the apartment was not from Madeleine then who did it belong to? No one else had died in that apartment to my knowledge in this case? 
I think the DNA evidence did point to it being from Madeleine if i recall correctly.
I'm not sure by that stage if the McC's were being watched 24/7, it was a few weeks after the initial disappearance of the child.
I really don't know exactly how or when they would of transferred Madeleine, and only the perp/s would know that.
And no, i don't shout at people, flower

This is what is unknown.... who died in the apartment. Unless they can account for every single person who has been in the apartment and the hire car, then it cannot be said it is Madeleine.

From memory, the tissue/hairs/DNA in the boot wasn't confirmed from a deceased Madeleine and was said to have come from having items of hers in the boot, but i'll go back and read again. It was from Madeleine, but nor necessarily a deceased Madeleine.

The McCanns were surrounded the majority of the time by Portuguese police/Uk police, and/or special forces/ victim support people, Mark Warner staff, friends, family and also under the watchful eye of the worlds media from day 1, so they didn't have much time to do anything..

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by tiny on Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:49 pm

I don't think the mccanns were watched 24/7.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by margaret on Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:49 pm

@woodforthetrees wrote:
I tend to agreed with that theory to PeterMac, i'm just struggling to see how/why OG are not on the same page...
So, there is evidence in the police files about the blue bag (i have seen the photo) and it has been questioned.... if SY agreed with this evidence then it would eliminate tannerman, smithman and the whole raft of dodgy suspects. But yet OG continue to look for witnesses, suspects etc anywhere but the McCanns.

This to me seems very odd, almost like there is more evidence to back up their paedo abductor theory in the police files that haven't been released.

But how go you know OG isn't on the same page? To me (and I don't believe in a whitewash) it looks like those questioned are being ruled out OR? Those who have failed to rule themselves out I.e not assist the police should be worried.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by Casey5 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:52 pm

woodforthetrees:-
The McCanns were surrounded the majority of the time by Portuguese police/Uk police, and/or special forces/ victim support people, Mark Warner staff, friends, family and also under the watchful eye of the worlds media from day 1, so they didn't have much time to do anything..
[size=53][/size]                           -----------------------------
No they weren't. They had scheduled meetings with the Portuguese and English liaison teams. Their family/friends were in charge of looking after the twins and preparing meals after shopping etc. and the media left them alone in exchange for the photo shoots of the McCanns with the twins and the pensive beach shots complete with cuddle cat.They weren't followed by hoards of media when they went to Spain either.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by ScarletLaw on Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:08 pm

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
My biggest bugbear with the hire car is...how did they manage to transfer her into the boot of the car then dispose of her without anybody seeing? They were being watched 24-7.
Just playing devils advocate here and trying to get things clear in my head, so please don't shout :

They didn't need to transfer her into the boot of the car.  The blue bag might have been enough.
The bag that was in the wardrobe in exactly the spot indicated by one of the dogs.
If the blue bag had been used to remove her, and then put back on the shelf, and then at a later stage put into the boot of car, that might have been enough.
They then realise is is beginning to smell, and is perhaps stained . . .   so they ditch it, and Mitchell denies there ever was a blue bag - which proves to the world beyond a reasonable doubt that there had been.
Madeleine had been disposed of several weeks before - probably during the afternoon of the 3rd, when everyone else was got rid of, Tapas group to the Paraiso bar, Kate on a run, and Gerry had his Achilles Tendon injury - which thanks to the intervention of The Blessed Katherine of the Multiple Immaculate Conceptions spontaneously healed by tea time.

He has several hours to hump a blue tennis bag round a resort bristling with tennis courts, whilst wearing tennis gear.  In full sight he would be invisible.

Or not, as the case may be, of course !

I tend to agreed with that theory to PeterMac, i'm just struggling to see how/why OG are not on the same page...

So, there is evidence in the police files about the blue bag (i have seen the photo) and it has been questioned.... if SY agreed with this evidence then it would eliminate tannerman, smithman and the whole raft of dodgy suspects. But yet OG continue to look for witnesses, suspects etc anywhere but the McCanns.

This to me seems very odd, almost like there is more evidence to back up their paedo abductor theory in the police files that haven't been released.

 I'm new btw, but I feel if a bag was used then the body would be stored there throughout and unlikely to be removed again. Also a body would stiffen after a few hours and this would make it difficult to lift because the joints would stiffen and become rigid. Hence my own theory about what happened was late in the evening if the Smith sighting was Gerry. This blue bag is the only thing I haven't been able to clarify for definite because in some of the pictures I've seen they show a travel bag?

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by AlexBG on Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:36 pm

@PeterMac wrote:They didn't need to transfer her into the boot of the car.  The blue bag might have been enough.
The bag that was in the wardrobe in exactly the spot indicated by one of the dogs.
If the blue bag had been used to remove her, and then put back on the shelf, and then at a later stage put into the boot of car, that might have been enough.
They then realise is is beginning to smell, and is perhaps stained . . .   so they ditch it, and Mitchell denies there ever was a blue bag - which proves to the world beyond a reasonable doubt that there had been.
Madeleine had been disposed of several weeks before - probably during the afternoon of the 3rd
That view isn't shared by Amaral, who implies in a 2009 interview that he believes the body itself was transferred into the boot of the car:
Q: Do you think the body was refrigerated?
 A: Yes. The bodily fluid in the car show that. If the body had been buried there would have been mummification. The fact that there were fluids points to refrigeration.
If you think about it logically, had they used the bag to transport the body to a final resting place on or before 3rd May, chances are they'd have subsequently either got rid of the bag ASAP, or cleaned it very thoroughly in the vain hope of removing all forensic evidence. The former option is arguably both faster and safer.
If the body was indeed transferred into the boot of the hire car at a later date, the bag was perhaps only used to transport it at that point, assuming it was ever used at all.

In response to a comment made by woodforthetrees, if you consider, for example, the fact that the PJ were only alerted to the "open car boot" issue by the observations of a neighbour, the McCs evidently weren't being watched 24/7 after 3rd May.

In response to Joss' comment regarding possible past deaths in the apartment, Amaral states during the above-mentioned interview that:
...from the inquiry we know that before the 3rd of May nobody died in the apartment, nor in the car.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by Praiaaa on Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:49 pm

@AlexBG wrote:
If you think about it logically, had they used the bag to transport the body to a final resting place on or before 3rd May, chances are they'd have subsequently either got rid of the bag ASAP, or cleaned it very thoroughly in the vain hope of removing all forensic evidence. The former option is arguably both faster and safer.

Indeed! Can think of no reason for retaining a contaminated bag - and in any case, much easier to dispose of a bag than a body!

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by stillsloppingout on Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:10 pm

@tiny wrote:I don't think the mccanns were watched 24/7.
I can categorically confirm they were not .
i have mentioned this many times . I knew a few snappers over there at the time . Photo call then back to the bars and cafes everybody at the time initially thaught it was really a missing child case .respect was asked for and granted .They were only papped once if i can recall the shots on the rocks .
They were NEVER FOLLOWED.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by joyce1938 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:53 pm

I think I saw a theory about hairs found in car ,and if were tested again with more information now available  could be found if from a dead person or alive ,something to do with roots of hair ,hard last time because the hairs need to have bulb of root , so maybe the tests maybe retested  7 years later ? does anyone else recall this ?maybe possible to tell DNA from the hairs they have still got ,with no roots intact ? joyce1938

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by ScarletLaw on Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:59 pm

I know the McCanns were going out for night walks on their own early on, which I initially thought was looking for daughter. But then I saw an interview on camera where her mum said that she hadn't actually searched?? Which I thought was strange. Odd behaviour to be out for hours but not searching.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by Joss on Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:08 am

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:And did the killer paedophile who removed Madeleine from the apartment then store her in the McCann renault scenic some 25 or so days after that to leave decomp. evidence in the trunk of the car? And that after he left that same evidence in the McC apartment as well? Sounds like a legit story, NOT.


This is the bit that always swings me back around to the perp being MrMc, but.... as with the apartment cadaver, there is no concrete evidence to say it is Madeleine. If they knew 100% that the tissue was Madeleine's and it was decomposed, then they would not be walking around freely now.

What would be great is if new DNA testing were able to prove that hairs/tissue in the boot of the car was from a deceased Madeleine, but until there is, it's inconclusive :-(

My biggest bugbear with the hire car is...how did they manage to transfer her into the boot of the car then dispose of her without anybody seeing? They were being watched 24-7.

Just playing devils advocate here and trying to get things clear in my head, so please don't shout  pray2
If the cadaver evidence alerted to by the dogs in the apartment was not from Madeleine then who did it belong to? No one else had died in that apartment to my knowledge in this case? 
I think the DNA evidence did point to it being from Madeleine if i recall correctly.
I'm not sure by that stage if the McC's were being watched 24/7, it was a few weeks after the initial disappearance of the child.
I really don't know exactly how or when they would of transferred Madeleine, and only the perp/s would know that.
And no, i don't shout at people, flower

This is what is unknown.... who died in the apartment. Unless they can account for every single person who has been in the apartment and the hire car, then it cannot be said it is Madeleine.

From memory, the tissue/hairs/DNA in the boot wasn't confirmed from a deceased Madeleine and was said to have come from having items of hers in the boot, but i'll go back and read again. It was from Madeleine, but nor necessarily a deceased Madeleine.

The McCanns were surrounded the majority of the time by Portuguese police/Uk police, and/or special forces/ victim support people, Mark Warner staff, friends, family and also under the watchful eye of the worlds media from day 1, so they didn't have much time to do anything..
Letter dated 11 September regarding FSS report received by PJ
on on 4 September from Leicester Police, citing 15/19 matches of Madeleine DNA
profile

This serves to add
[to the case file] a laboratory examination report prepared
in England, written in English and translated into Portuguese, delivered to this
police force on 4 September 2007 by English police officer Stuart Prior.

This laboratory report tells about the examinations made of two trace evidence
recoveries, one behind the living room sofa in apartment 5A and the other in the
boot area of the vehicle used by the McCann family, hired
[by them] from the end of May this year.

In some of these recoveries (samples) DNA was found whose components are also
found in the profile of Madeleine McCann.

With respect to the trace evidence recovered behind the sofa all the confirmed
DNA components coincide with corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann.

In the sample collected in the boot area of the vehicle, 15 of the identified
DNA components coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann, this of [having] 19 components.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by Joss on Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:12 am

@ScarletLaw wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
My biggest bugbear with the hire car is...how did they manage to transfer her into the boot of the car then dispose of her without anybody seeing? They were being watched 24-7.
Just playing devils advocate here and trying to get things clear in my head, so please don't shout :

They didn't need to transfer her into the boot of the car.  The blue bag might have been enough.
The bag that was in the wardrobe in exactly the spot indicated by one of the dogs.
If the blue bag had been used to remove her, and then put back on the shelf, and then at a later stage put into the boot of car, that might have been enough.
They then realise is is beginning to smell, and is perhaps stained . . .   so they ditch it, and Mitchell denies there ever was a blue bag - which proves to the world beyond a reasonable doubt that there had been.
Madeleine had been disposed of several weeks before - probably during the afternoon of the 3rd, when everyone else was got rid of, Tapas group to the Paraiso bar, Kate on a run, and Gerry had his Achilles Tendon injury - which thanks to the intervention of The Blessed Katherine of the Multiple Immaculate Conceptions spontaneously healed by tea time.

He has several hours to hump a blue tennis bag round a resort bristling with tennis courts, whilst wearing tennis gear.  In full sight he would be invisible.

Or not, as the case may be, of course !

I tend to agreed with that theory to PeterMac, i'm just struggling to see how/why OG are not on the same page...

So, there is evidence in the police files about the blue bag (i have seen the photo) and it has been questioned.... if SY agreed with this evidence then it would eliminate tannerman, smithman and the whole raft of dodgy suspects. But yet OG continue to look for witnesses, suspects etc anywhere but the McCanns.

This to me seems very odd, almost like there is more evidence to back up their paedo abductor theory in the police files that haven't been released.

 I'm new btw, but I feel if a bag was used then the body would be stored there throughout and unlikely to be removed again. Also a body would stiffen after a few hours and this would make it difficult to lift because the joints would stiffen and become rigid. Hence my own theory about what happened was late in the evening if the Smith sighting was Gerry. This blue bag is the only thing I haven't been able to clarify for definite because in some of the pictures I've seen they show a travel bag?

Madeleine was only 3 almost 4 yrs. old, and i believe from what i have read she was small for her age, so i don't think her disposal would have posed too much of a problem for an adult.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by NickE on Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:45 am

Tweet from METpolice this morning:
Commissioner on @LBC973 re the search for Madeleine McCann: The parents want certainty… we are doing our best to help with that"

Are they a bit shaky
..or?

____________________
When asked if people will ever learn what really happened, Mr Amaral responded: “Yes, we will, when MI5 opens the case files, we will find out".

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by woodforthetrees on Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:58 am

@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:And did the killer paedophile who removed Madeleine from the apartment then store her in the McCann renault scenic some 25 or so days after that to leave decomp. evidence in the trunk of the car? And that after he left that same evidence in the McC apartment as well? Sounds like a legit story, NOT.


This is the bit that always swings me back around to the perp being MrMc, but.... as with the apartment cadaver, there is no concrete evidence to say it is Madeleine. If they knew 100% that the tissue was Madeleine's and it was decomposed, then they would not be walking around freely now.

What would be great is if new DNA testing were able to prove that hairs/tissue in the boot of the car was from a deceased Madeleine, but until there is, it's inconclusive :-(

My biggest bugbear with the hire car is...how did they manage to transfer her into the boot of the car then dispose of her without anybody seeing? They were being watched 24-7.

Just playing devils advocate here and trying to get things clear in my head, so please don't shout  pray2
If the cadaver evidence alerted to by the dogs in the apartment was not from Madeleine then who did it belong to? No one else had died in that apartment to my knowledge in this case? 
I think the DNA evidence did point to it being from Madeleine if i recall correctly.
I'm not sure by that stage if the McC's were being watched 24/7, it was a few weeks after the initial disappearance of the child.
I really don't know exactly how or when they would of transferred Madeleine, and only the perp/s would know that.
And no, i don't shout at people, flower

This is what is unknown.... who died in the apartment. Unless they can account for every single person who has been in the apartment and the hire car, then it cannot be said it is Madeleine.

From memory, the tissue/hairs/DNA in the boot wasn't confirmed from a deceased Madeleine and was said to have come from having items of hers in the boot, but i'll go back and read again. It was from Madeleine, but nor necessarily a deceased Madeleine.

The McCanns were surrounded the majority of the time by Portuguese police/Uk police, and/or special forces/ victim support people, Mark Warner staff, friends, family and also under the watchful eye of the worlds media from day 1, so they didn't have much time to do anything..
Letter dated 11 September regarding FSS report received by PJ
on on 4 September from Leicester Police, citing 15/19 matches of Madeleine DNA
profile

This serves to add
[to the case file] a laboratory examination report prepared
in England, written in English and translated into Portuguese, delivered to this
police force on 4 September 2007 by English police officer Stuart Prior.

This laboratory report tells about the examinations made of two trace evidence
recoveries, one behind the living room sofa in apartment 5A and the other in the
boot area of the vehicle used by the McCann family, hired
[by them] from the end of May this year.

In some of these recoveries (samples) DNA was found whose components are also
found in the profile of Madeleine McCann.

With respect to the trace evidence recovered behind the sofa all the confirmed
DNA components coincide with corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann.

In the sample collected in the boot area of the vehicle, 15 of the identified
DNA components coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann, this of [having] 19 components.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

'Deceased' Madeleine...not just Madeleine

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by Rogue-a-Tory on Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:13 am

@margaret wrote:
Also they did loads of mileage in that car it was impossible to be watched and followed 24/7.

Loads of unaccounted for mileage/kilometrage - according to Dr Amaral.

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by woodforthetrees on Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:21 am

@Rogue-a-Tory wrote:
@margaret wrote:
Also they did loads of mileage in that car it was impossible to be watched and followed 24/7.

Loads of unaccounted for mileage/kilometrage - according to Dr Amaral.

The PJ weren't watching them, but i am in little doubt that the British police/services were (as they would have made the parents immediate suspects as standard protocol).

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by aiyoyo on Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:22 am

@NickE wrote:Tweet from METpolice this morning:
Commissioner on @LBC973 re the search for Madeleine McCann: The parents want certainty… we are doing our best to help with that"

Are they a bit shaky
..or?

Tweet from MET Police ?  WT..........F?
What's the value of that saying it on the social media?

"Certainty" the parents want ?
"Certainty" of what ?  That she is alive or she is dead ?
"Certainty" on what / who the Police are focusing on ?

Not "answer" but "certainty" - that's a very odd thing to say !

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Re: OFFICERS will fly to Portugal next week to interview the suspects over the disappearance of Maddie in 2007.

Post by Joss on Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:32 am

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Rogue-a-Tory wrote:
@margaret wrote:
Also they did loads of mileage in that car it was impossible to be watched and followed 24/7.

Loads of unaccounted for mileage/kilometrage - according to Dr Amaral.

The PJ weren't watching them, but i am in little doubt that the British police/services were (as they would have made the parents immediate suspects as standard protocol).

WikiLeaks cables: UK police 'developed' evidence against McCanns

British ambassador's reported comments to US counterpart offer insight into role of UK police in 2007 investigation
British police helped to "develop evidence" against Madeleine McCann's parents as they were investigated by Portuguese police as formal suspects in the disappearance of their daughter, the US ambassador to Portugal was told by his British counterpart in September 2007.
The meeting between US ambassador Al Hoffman and the British ambassador, Alexander Wykeham Ellis, took place a fortnight after Kate and Gerry McCann were formally declared arguidos, or suspects, by Portuguese police. The McCanns have said that there was "absolutely no evidence to implicate them in Madeleine's disappearance whatsoever."
In a diplomatic cable marked confidential, the US ambassador reported: "Without delving into the details of the case, Ellis admitted that the British police had developed the current evidence against the McCann parents, and he stressed that authorities from both countries were working co-operatively."
The comments attributed to the ambassador appear to contradict the widespread perception at the time that Portuguese investigators were the driving force behind the treatment of the McCanns as suspects in the case.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/dec/13/wikileaks-madeleine-mccann-british-police

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