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Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

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Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Marnelakis on 11.11.14 10:03

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2829284/After-mother-gets-criminal-record-leaving-6-year-old-home-45-minutes-acceptable-leave-child-home-alone.html

Lots of differing opinions on this and the comments are well worth a read.  One thing that really gets me is this comment by Quentin Letts: 

"I suspect that the ghastly misfortune of the McCanns (whom I do not in any way criticise) changed many people’s attitudes."  

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by aquila on 11.11.14 10:25

@Marnelakis wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2829284/After-mother-gets-criminal-record-leaving-6-year-old-home-45-minutes-acceptable-leave-child-home-alone.html

Lots of differing opinions on this and the comments are well worth a read.  One thing that really gets me is this comment by Quentin Letts: 

"I suspect that the ghastly misfortune of the McCanns (whom I do not in any way criticise) changed many people’s attitudes."  
Do you mean this bit?

On a family holiday to Ibiza about 15 years ago, I persuaded my wife Lois to leave our two children, Eveleen, then aged around two, and Claud, three, asleep in our self-catering apartment while we had a candlelit dinner alone on the far side of the holiday complex.


From our restaurant table, we could just about see the apartment across the swimming pool. Or so I claimed.


Lois agreed reluctantly but was twitchy throughout dinner.


‘Shall I just go and check on the children?’ she kept asking. ‘Do you think they’re okay?’
Happily pouring her a second glass of Rioja, I told her not to worry and thought she was just being a fusspot. I wanted dinner with my beautiful wife without the interruption of screaming toddlers.


I suspect that the ghastly misfortune of the McCanns (whom I do not in any way criticise) changed many people’s attitudes. 
Quentin Letts

A few years later, however, the poor McCanns lost their daughter Madeleine and I felt a swine for the way I had behaved.
Has my view on leaving children unattended changed since then? I suppose it has, as far as really tiny tots go. I would not now be happy leaving a three-year-old in an apartment while I sauntered off to supper.


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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Marnelakis on 11.11.14 11:27

@aquila wrote:
@Marnelakis wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2829284/After-mother-gets-criminal-record-leaving-6-year-old-home-45-minutes-acceptable-leave-child-home-alone.html

Lots of differing opinions on this and the comments are well worth a read.  One thing that really gets me is this comment by Quentin Letts: 

"I suspect that the ghastly misfortune of the McCanns (whom I do not in any way criticise) changed many people’s attitudes."  
Do you mean this bit?

On a family holiday to Ibiza about 15 years ago, I persuaded my wife Lois to leave our two children, Eveleen, then aged around two, and Claud, three, asleep in our self-catering apartment while we had a candlelit dinner alone on the far side of the holiday complex.


From our restaurant table, we could just about see the apartment across the swimming pool. Or so I claimed.


Lois agreed reluctantly but was twitchy throughout dinner.


‘Shall I just go and check on the children?’ she kept asking. ‘Do you think they’re okay?’
Happily pouring her a second glass of Rioja, I told her not to worry and thought she was just being a fusspot. I wanted dinner with my beautiful wife without the interruption of screaming toddlers.


I suspect that the ghastly misfortune of the McCanns (whom I do not in any way criticise) changed many people’s attitudes. 
Quentin Letts

A few years later, however, the poor McCanns lost their daughter Madeleine and I felt a swine for the way I had behaved.
Has my view on leaving children unattended changed since then? I suppose it has, as far as really tiny tots go. I would not now be happy leaving a three-year-old in an apartment while I sauntered off to supper.

Yes that's the one - I don't understand the need for him to say he is uncritical of them.  Why not just leave it?  He has admitted leaving his own small children so by his own behaviour has condoned theirs - why the need to enforce it?

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by aquila on 11.11.14 11:41

@Marnelakis wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@Marnelakis wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2829284/After-mother-gets-criminal-record-leaving-6-year-old-home-45-minutes-acceptable-leave-child-home-alone.html

Lots of differing opinions on this and the comments are well worth a read.  One thing that really gets me is this comment by Quentin Letts: 

"I suspect that the ghastly misfortune of the McCanns (whom I do not in any way criticise) changed many people’s attitudes."  
Do you mean this bit?

On a family holiday to Ibiza about 15 years ago, I persuaded my wife Lois to leave our two children, Eveleen, then aged around two, and Claud, three, asleep in our self-catering apartment while we had a candlelit dinner alone on the far side of the holiday complex.


From our restaurant table, we could just about see the apartment across the swimming pool. Or so I claimed.


Lois agreed reluctantly but was twitchy throughout dinner.


‘Shall I just go and check on the children?’ she kept asking. ‘Do you think they’re okay?’
Happily pouring her a second glass of Rioja, I told her not to worry and thought she was just being a fusspot. I wanted dinner with my beautiful wife without the interruption of screaming toddlers.


I suspect that the ghastly misfortune of the McCanns (whom I do not in any way criticise) changed many people’s attitudes. 
Quentin Letts

A few years later, however, the poor McCanns lost their daughter Madeleine and I felt a swine for the way I had behaved.
Has my view on leaving children unattended changed since then? I suppose it has, as far as really tiny tots go. I would not now be happy leaving a three-year-old in an apartment while I sauntered off to supper.

Yes that's the one - I don't understand the need for him to say he is uncritical of them.  Why not just leave it?  He has admitted leaving his own small children so by his own behaviour has condoned theirs - why the need to enforce it?
Clarence Mitchell couldn't have written better if he'd penned it himself.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Joss on 11.11.14 12:02

I'm surprised that this even an issue up for any kind of debate? WTF! Why would anyone risk leaving babies and very young children home alone?
Why do these people even have kids in the first place, and have they never heard of a babysitter? What about responsibility as a parent to safeguard the vulnerable little ones? How could you even relax enough to enjoy time with a partner under such circumstances? It's ridiculous that those idiots just don't get it.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by plebgate on 11.11.14 12:04

The luvvies who have left their children alone will of course agree that there is nothing wrong in doing so.   Who cares what they think?  I bet the majority of the general public agree that 3 children under the age of 4 should not be left alone night after night in their foreign apartment.


Letts does not criticise them for doing so, but does he realise they did it time and again.   Not a one off at all and he doesn't point out that the whole lot of them were doing it if he even realises that.

He doesn't appear to have seen Brunty's December 07 video when he said that the apartment was 80 paces away from the Tapas bar, was dark and was not completely visible from the Tapas bar.   Brunty also said something like - so not quite as Gerry McCann stated.

I wonder if his children were ill when he left them and soiling their nappies so badly that there was a stinking stench .   No is the answer but he does not criticise those who admit they have.   Does he even know?

I wish these so called journalists would just shutup

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Brian Griffin on 11.11.14 16:18

@Marnelakis wrote:
Yes that's the one - I don't understand the need for him to say he is uncritical of them.  Why not just leave it?  He has admitted leaving his own small children so by his own behaviour has condoned theirs - why the need to enforce it?
He's afraid of what the McCanns can do, I would imagine, and/or repercussions from the pros online (and offline), and with good reason! In my opinion.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Brian Griffin on 11.11.14 16:24

There is only a need for debate when there is no clear answer to a question. May I be allowed to provide one given what I have observed?

If you are not a McCann, leaving your kids alone is deplorable and you can be dragged through the rags for doing so and deserve to be criticised by an angry online mob; if you are a McCann, leaving your kids alone is 'well within the bounds of responsible parenting' and woe betide you if you say otherwise.

Yep. I think that just about sums it up.

In my opinion.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Joss on 11.11.14 16:42

@Brian Griffin wrote:There is only a need for debate when there is no clear answer to a question. May I be allowed to provide one given what I have observed?

If you are not a McCann, leaving your kids alone is deplorable and you can be dragged through the rags for doing so and deserve to be criticised by an angry online mob; if you are a McCann, leaving your kids alone is 'well within the bounds of responsible parenting' and woe betide you if you say otherwise.

Yep. I think that just about sums it up.

In my opinion.
Exactly. A huge double standard in so called responsible parenting. Which makes me wonder as the McC's are Dr's what would they do if they had to deal with a parent that left their very young child all alone and returned to find a very injured child that needed urgent medical care? Would they tell the parent, oh that's ok. people do that all the time just pop out for a bit of "me" time while leaving a vulnerable child home alone? Or is  it only ok. to do that while away in a foreign country while on vacation? So its all good then, just a small mishap. angryred

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by PeterMac on 11.11.14 17:00

@Joss wrote:So its all good then, just a small mishap. angryred
Even their own close family said "Nothing of value was taken."
So that's all right then.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Dr What on 11.11.14 18:05

It is an indication of just how far the UK has fallen that this issue is even debated!!

It is negligent, it is abusive, it is selfish and it is dangerous to leave young children on their own.

I suppose it is not really surprising how the rest of the world views the UK on the issue of family life when this type of stuff is discussed and 'reasons' given why it is OK to leave children to fend for themselves.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Brian Griffin on 11.11.14 18:16

Yes, but we know that this issue is really about the McCanns again!

And they must always be shown to be in the right, so on and on it goes.

In my opinion.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Brian Griffin on 11.11.14 18:17

@Joss wrote:
@Brian Griffin wrote:There is only a need for debate when there is no clear answer to a question. May I be allowed to provide one given what I have observed?

If you are not a McCann, leaving your kids alone is deplorable and you can be dragged through the rags for doing so and deserve to be criticised by an angry online mob; if you are a McCann, leaving your kids alone is 'well within the bounds of responsible parenting' and woe betide you if you say otherwise.

Yep. I think that just about sums it up.

In my opinion.
Exactly. A huge double standard in so called responsible parenting. Which makes me wonder as the McC's are Dr's what would they do if they had to deal with a parent that left their very young child all alone and returned to find a very injured child that needed urgent medical care? Would they tell the parent, oh that's ok. people do that all the time just pop out for a bit of "me" time while leaving a vulnerable child home alone? Or is  it only ok. to do that while away in a foreign country while on vacation? So its all good then, just a small mishap. angryred
The fact that they are doctors makes it so much worse in my mind. They ought to know better! In my opinion.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Joss on 12.11.14 2:48

@PeterMac wrote:
@Joss wrote:So its all good then, just a small mishap. angryred
Even their own close family said "Nothing of value was taken."
So that's all right then.
Exactly, the mindset is just unreal and incomprehensible.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Snifferdog on 12.11.14 8:45

@Brian Griffin wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@Brian Griffin wrote:There is only a need for debate when there is no clear answer to a question. May I be allowed to provide one given what I have observed?

If you are not a McCann, leaving your kids alone is deplorable and you can be dragged through the rags for doing so and deserve to be criticised by an angry online mob; if you are a McCann, leaving your kids alone is 'well within the bounds of responsible parenting' and woe betide you if you say otherwise.

Yep. I think that just about sums it up.

In my opinion.
Exactly. A huge double standard in so called responsible parenting. Which makes me wonder as the McC's are Dr's what would they do if they had to deal with a parent that left their very young child all alone and returned to find a very injured child that needed urgent medical care? Would they tell the parent, oh that's ok. people do that all the time just pop out for a bit of "me" time while leaving a vulnerable child home alone? Or is  it only ok. to do that while away in a foreign country while on vacation? So its all good then, just a small mishap. angryred
The fact that they are doctors makes it so much worse in my mind. They ought to know better! In my opinion.
We are supposed to accept that it is fine Only if the McCanns and their buddies do it....for everyone else on the planet it is verboten!

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by Marnelakis on 12.11.14 9:10

@Snifferdog wrote:
@Brian Griffin wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@Brian Griffin wrote:There is only a need for debate when there is no clear answer to a question. May I be allowed to provide one given what I have observed?

If you are not a McCann, leaving your kids alone is deplorable and you can be dragged through the rags for doing so and deserve to be criticised by an angry online mob; if you are a McCann, leaving your kids alone is 'well within the bounds of responsible parenting' and woe betide you if you say otherwise.

Yep. I think that just about sums it up.

In my opinion.
Exactly. A huge double standard in so called responsible parenting. Which makes me wonder as the McC's are Dr's what would they do if they had to deal with a parent that left their very young child all alone and returned to find a very injured child that needed urgent medical care? Would they tell the parent, oh that's ok. people do that all the time just pop out for a bit of "me" time while leaving a vulnerable child home alone? Or is  it only ok. to do that while away in a foreign country while on vacation? So its all good then, just a small mishap. angryred
The fact that they are doctors makes it so much worse in my mind. They ought to know better! In my opinion.
We are supposed to accept that it is fine Only if the McCanns and their buddies do it....for everyone else on the planet it is verboten!
Exactly!  And going back to the Quentin Twitts piece, he calls himself a swine in hindsight for leaving his two small children but stresses that he doesn't criticise the McCanns for what they did

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by jeanmonroe on 12.11.14 10:20

Let's see the 'reaction' of the UK Madia when a 3 years old child goes 'missing' when the parents have diliberately, and consciously, left the child, alone, out of sight, in an unlocked, unsecured, 'place' while they went out of sight for over half an hour, to dine with their friends and 'cries' to all and sundry...'a burglator MUST have taken my child,.... right?'
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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by sami on 12.11.14 11:04

Why is everything measured in "legal" terms these days.  Sometimes we need to make decisions on the basis that our actions might be morally wrong, though not illegal.  

We complain on the one hand Governmnts are trying to form nanny states, then there are imbeciles who advertise the fact they leave small children alone on the basis it is not illegal and the kids know not to use the kettle to make tea while abandoned. What to do - leave the toilet seat up in case they get thirsty sad

What about a child that becomes anxious or afraid while alone because they hear a strange noise ? Who wants a four year old terrified in a corner waiting for their parent to return ?

My third little one was raised in the car - going from a, to b to c and back again while his brothers were dropped to school, football, friends, swimming, me shopping.  All day every day.  It's a miracle he learned to walk he spent so much time in the car.  Now he's at school, his activities are on the never ending journey list too. And on it goes.  It's called family life.

They can dress it up any way they want, they can say it is legal and within the bounds of reasonable parenting, but is morally wrong, cruel, dangerous and unnecessary.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by plebgate on 12.11.14 11:19

It could be that after the judge's ruling last week against those two women who had been drinking,who forgot their key and left young children alone for half an hour-  it was felt that Zlebs needed to voice their opinons that there is nothing wrong with leaving children alone at night,   there was a lot of comment saying that the judge had been right.   

Joss made a good point earlier I thought, Letts called himself a swine for having left his children alone, but can see no wrong in Mr. & Mrs. doing so.   Are these people for real?

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by worriedmum on 12.11.14 11:20

@sami wrote:Why is everything measured in "legal" terms these days.  Sometimes we need to make decisions on the basis that our actions might be morally wrong, though not illegal.  

We complain on the one hand Governmnts are trying to form nanny states, then there are imbeciles who advertise the fact they leave small children alone on the basis it is not illegal and the kids know not to use the kettle to make tea while abandoned. What to do - leave the toilet seat up in case they get thirsty sad

What about a child that becomes anxious or afraid while alone because they hear a strange noise ? Who wants a four year old terrified in a corner waiting for their parent to return ?

My third little one was raised in the car - going from a, to b to c and back again while his brothers were dropped to school, football, friends, swimming, me shopping.  All day every day.  It's a miracle he learned to walk he spent so much time in the car.  Now he's at school, his activities are on the never ending journey list too. And on it goes.  It's called family life.

They can dress it up any way they want, they can say it is legal and within the bounds of reasonable parenting, but is morally wrong, cruel, dangerous and unnecessary.
goodpost

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by margaret on 12.11.14 18:17

I just don't understand any persons mindset to leave children unattended like the Mccanns or people in this article. Worse still, l can't understand why they admit to it in print!

I've never met a parent like it thank God.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by lj on 12.11.14 20:15

@sami wrote:Why is everything measured in "legal" terms these days.  Sometimes we need to make decisions on the basis that our actions might be morally wrong, though not illegal.  

We complain on the one hand Governmnts are trying to form nanny states, then there are imbeciles who advertise the fact they leave small children alone on the basis it is not illegal and the kids know not to use the kettle to make tea while abandoned. What to do - leave the toilet seat up in case they get thirsty sad

What about a child that becomes anxious or afraid while alone because they hear a strange noise ? Who wants a four year old terrified in a corner waiting for their parent to return ?

My third little one was raised in the car - going from a, to b to c and back again while his brothers were dropped to school, football, friends, swimming, me shopping.  All day every day.  It's a miracle he learned to walk he spent so much time in the car.  Now he's at school, his activities are on the never ending journey list too. And on it goes.  It's called family life.

They can dress it up any way they want, they can say it is legal and within the bounds of reasonable parenting, but is morally wrong, cruel, dangerous and unnecessary.
goodpost

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by lj on 12.11.14 20:19

@margaret wrote:I just don't understand any persons mindset to leave children unattended like the Mccanns or people in this article. Worse still, l can't understand why they admit to it in print!

I've never met a parent like it thank God.
Worst even: one of the mothers who left her sick child alone, rolling in it's diarrhea, did not want to do the checks because it was so scary dark!

I still am of the firm opinion they should all be in jail and be scared for a while, as everyone of these little children must have been very scared.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by plebgate on 13.11.14 8:10

@lj wrote:
@margaret wrote:I just don't understand any persons mindset to leave children unattended like the Mccanns or people in this article. Worse still, l can't understand why they admit to it in print!

I've never met a parent like it thank God.
Worst even: one of the mothers who left her sick child alone, rolling in it's diarrhea, did not want to do the checks because it was so scary dark!

I still am of the firm opinion they should all be in jail and be scared for a while, as everyone of these little children must have been very scared.
Ref. red highlighting - What really annoys me is that they stand on the line waiting to do a "charity" run like butter wouldn't melt.   They make me sick the whole lot of them, they really do.

Whatever went on on that holiday I really do pity those poor children.   ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING.  

The absolute cheek of it all is that TM want to see innocent, law abiding, family people made an example of for daring to ask questions and criticise what THEY THEMSELVES say happened regarding their children.

Who is allowing this to happen because I am absolutely 100per cent sure that ordinary, working class people would not get away with it?

Brenda has died because she posted what she thought was completely unacceptable and yet this lot, who have admitted to treating their children in this way, get on with their lives and their running and their posing for cameras as if they are celebs.

Makes me sick, it really does.   PAH AND DOUBLE PAH.

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Re: Daily Mail Debate: Is Leaving a Child Alone a Crime

Post by palm tree on 13.11.14 9:23

Absolutely unbelievable, disgustingly sick. Didn't want dinner interrupted by screaming toddlers wtf2 so just let them scream home alone, as long as they can't hear or see them whilst enjoying their meal! Who the hell would agree with this?
IMO bad

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