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Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by Muzz Lightyear on 15.10.14 11:49

If they look closely ,they may find an elephant in the room.......

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by Snifferdog on 15.10.14 12:20

Dee Coy wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
Scotland Yard (SY) wants to know whether the samples collected in the apartment from where Madeleine McCann disappeared seven years ago may be subject to further forensic tests.

I thought the samples were given to Birmingham lab and later destroyed after the testing?
What samples were still retained or returned to the Portuguese ?
I wonder whether they are referring to the "hair" that PJ still had in their possession, that which Dr. Amaral referred to.

The hair was found in the car wasn't it? My guess - and hope - is that only part of the original samples were sent to the UK for destr analysis,  and the rest was retained, after all, in Portugal.

SY want to know if the samples are to be retested. Looks to me like 'British forensic experts' aren't going to be examining anything at all. Looks to me like the Portuguese are and SY is panicking. All in my opinion.
I truly hope that the PJ do not hand over all the samples they still have left in their possession. Rather if need be, the PJ should have them tested independently, if such can be done of course.

Yes I believe they are panicking big time.
The the top dogs need to be protected at all costs.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by aiyoyo on 15.10.14 12:20

Dee Coy wrote:
SY want to know if the samples are to be retested. Looks to me like 'British forensic experts' aren't going to be examining anything at all. Looks to me like the Portuguese are and SY is panicking. All in my opinion.

They are, apparently, according to press reports.
They went there to discuss the latest batch of forensic done by the Portuguese Labs.
I see it as a positive thing that OG is taking interest in this whole forensic thing at this end stage - studying the old ones with the the new batch and intending to retest old stocks. 
Circumstantial evidence when supported by forensics would strengthen case for prosecution.

Since the are waiting to re-interview 7 people, it would appear they have not narrowed down their "abductor".  Are they hoping to tie the forensic to one of these 7 persons of interest?  I would not have thought so, since no sample material belonging to stranger was ever collected from 5A or tested.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by aiyoyo on 15.10.14 12:25

@Snifferdog wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
Scotland Yard (SY) wants to know whether the samples collected in the apartment from where Madeleine McCann disappeared seven years ago may be subject to further forensic tests.

I thought the samples were given to Birmingham lab and later destroyed after the testing?
What samples were still retained or returned to the Portuguese ?
I wonder whether they are referring to the "hair" that PJ still had in their possession, that which Dr. Amaral referred to.

The hair was found in the car wasn't it? My guess - and hope - is that only part of the original samples were sent to the UK for destr analysis,  and the rest was retained, after all, in Portugal.

SY want to know if the samples are to be retested. Looks to me like 'British forensic experts' aren't going to be examining anything at all. Looks to me like the Portuguese are and SY is panicking. All in my opinion.
I truly hope that the PJ do not hand over all the samples they still have left in their possession. Rather if need be, the PJ should have them tested independently, if such can be done of course.

Yes I believe they are panicking big time.
The the top dogs need to be protected at all costs.

I would be really surprised if the Portuguese haven't already tested the hair in their possession in this round of review?  Unless it is a question of cost or approval procedure that has to be fulfilled first.  In which case I can't see them passing it to the British.  If retest is sanctioned I'm inclined to think the Portuguese will undertake it themselves.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by Guest on 15.10.14 12:32

Only British press reports, though, aiyoyo, which, as we've come to realise over the years, mean nothing. All the Portuguese ones are asserting it is the Portuguese who are instigating any retesting. It is in the interest of the British to convey to the gullible public that SY are driving both their own investigation and are influential over the Portuguese one.

All indications from Portugal say that has never been the case.

I don't believe 'British forensic experts' will be let anywhere near the remaining samples unless I see an official announcement to the contrary.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by Guest on 15.10.14 12:51

@aiyoyo wrote:

I would be really surprised if the Portuguese haven't already tested the hair in their possession in this round of review?  Unless it is a question of cost or approval procedure that has to be fulfilled first.  In which case I can't see them passing it to the British.  If retest is sanctioned I'm inclined to think the Portuguese will undertake it themselves.

Funnily enough, I read a report just this morning about the cost to the Portuguese of the original investigation. Millions of euros, apparently, the bulk of which was indeed spent on the forensic tests.

Here's the link. It's near the bottom of the page in the 'details' section. Again, this is a collection of press reports, from Correio da Manha.

http://paedofiles.com/madeleine-mccann/payne-suspected-of-paedophilia/

Given the enormous costs of lab testing the Portuguese must indeed have the determination of the new prosecutor to get to the bottom of this case, if they are retesting samples. I hope this is a statement of intent.

Alternatively, they may pass the high costs - and the samples over to SY. Unless we really know what is happening with relations between the investigations we can't tell what will happen. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by Doug D on 15.10.14 14:30

Joana has now added transcripts to the two videos. Thanks.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/10/maddie-case-english-police-to-meet-with.html

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by aiyoyo on 15.10.14 15:57

Lifted from Joana Morais's blog. Thanks, Joana.


Maddie case: English police to meet with Portuguese forensic experts





15 OCTOBER 2014 | POSTED BY JOANA MORAIS LEAVE A COMMENT



Redwood's team arrival at PJ headquarters in Faro yesterday | photo Luís Forra/Lusa


by Marisa Rodrigues

Scotland Yard (SY) wants to know whether the samples collected in the apartment from where Madeleine McCann disappeared seven years ago may be subject to further forensic tests. This is one of the questions the English detectives will ask to the forensic experts in a meeting, today, at the Portuguese National Institute of Forensic Medicine (INML) in Coimbra.

In the meeting, scheduled for 10am, the English police will also receive the results of the analyses done ​​by INML to the material [see] that was found during the searches and excavations in the terrains of Praia da Luz, last June. Like JN reported at the time, part of the material was sent to the INML and another part to the Forensic Science Laboratory of the Judiciary Police (PJ). The meeting in Coimbra will also be attended by the coordinator of the South Directorship of the PJ, Luís Mota Carmo besides the English detectives and the technicians of the Forensic Sciences institute.

Luís Mota Carmo received yesterday in Faro Andy Redwood's team for another routine meeting to assess Scotland yard's investigation progress, that was started in 2011, four years after the child's disappearance. In the meeting it was also addressed the next steps the English detectives intend to take, which are still awaiting for the Public Ministry's green light. 

JN was able to establish the Judiciary Police has not yet received from the Public Ministry the fifth letter rogatory, in which Scotland Yard requests for at least seven people considered of interest to the investigation to be questioned, including some of the four arguidos [formal suspects], and that searches are done to the suspects' homes.

in Jornal de Notícias, 15 Oct. 2014, paper edition

Read as well: Maddie Case: English Detectives are back in the Algarve






Videos

Broadcast by TVI, 14 Oct. 2014 (sound volume is extremely low)

Transcript
Marisa Rodrigues - Without speaking to the journalists, with a rushed pace for a meeting at the Judiciary Police, it's the return of the Scotland Yard to Faro for another assessment of the British investigation into Madeleine's disappearance. An analysis of what was done and the planning of the next steps that were requested in the fifth letter rogatory which is currently being evaluated by the Public Ministry.

The English police wishes to summon to the PJ headquarters some of the arguidos that were questioned in July. In total there are seven persons considered of interest that are now in the police's crosshairs. In the letter rogatory searches to the houses owned by the suspects are requested, which have not yet been authorized.

The process that changed hands due to the reorganization of the judicial chart will remain at the court of Portimão and was recently attributed to a prosecutor that has never been involved with this case.

At the PJ's South Directorship the meeting lasted less than two hours. In a ruse to escape the journalists waiting outside, the English entourage was the last to leave the PJ headquarters, following the exits of the Judiciary Police coordinators of Faro and Portimão.

From here, the English detectives will travel to Coimbra, where they are going to have a meeting at the National Institute of Forensic Medicine to get the results of the analyses to the vestiges [material] collected in the terrains of Praia da Luz during the searches and excavation that took place in June.

They also want to know if the samples in the apartment from where Madeleine disappeared in 2007, can be subjected to other types of forensic examination.


Broadcast by SIC, 14 Oct. 2014

Transcript
Conceição Ribeiro - It was a reduced entourage sent by Scotland Yard to Portugal this time. Andy Redwood and two colleagues returned to Faro at a time when, due to the new judicial chart, the Madeleine McCann process was given to a new prosecutor. 

(reporter at location) - Mr Redwood, what do you expect from the new prosecutor?

Andy Redwood - Sorry, I've got no comments to make this morning, sorry.

Without speaking to the journalists, the English inspectors went on to another meeting with the Judiciary Police. On the table, the results of the samples collected in Praia da Luz at the start of the Summer season, following the excavations in two terrains.

Another one of the issues Scotland Yard wishes to see clarified has to do with some cell phone owners, whom, for various reasons are at the British authorities' crosshairs. Left out of the meeting were the matters concerned with the planning of the future investigative steps, at a time when there isn't yet any reply given to the fifth letter rogatory, which contains new requests to the Portuguese authorities.

Before they return to London, the Metropolitan Police team will travel to Coimbra. A meeting is scheduled for this Wednesday with the National Institute of Forensic Medicine. The English inspectors want to know, from an expert point of view, if the progress of the last seven years justifies carrying out new tests to the old samples.

The eventual cross-checking of DNA profiles collected during the last investigative steps taken in Portugal may also be discussed. It should be recalled that last July, three men were constituted as arguidos at the request of the English authorities and almost a dozen witnesses were questioned.

According to the British media, the investigation to the Maddie case will cost to London, until the end of the year, more than 12 million euros [10 million pounds +/-]. 


What a world of difference in the reporting between Portugal and UK press.  What a total delight to hear the Portugal version.

Missing is the usual classical line that the sycophantic UK Press like to use to toe the Mcccanns line, like for example the UK press like to state that the development  (whatever that be - be it identifying of new suspects or interviewing of new suspects or even digging for remains)  brings fresh hope to Gerry and Kate Mccann, or Kate & Gerry are delighted with the development.

The Portugal press did not mention Kate & Gerry at all.  Hooray!

And I just love Redwood no-nonsense response "sorry, I've got no comments to make this morning, sorry" to journalist's question "Mr Redwood, what do you expect from the new prosecutor?"


ETA: http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/10/maddie-case-english-police-to-meet-with.html
Two videos are embedded in the link, should you want to watch them.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by aiyoyo on 15.10.14 16:07

Dee Coy wrote:
Given the enormous costs of lab testing the Portuguese must indeed have the determination of the new prosecutor to get to the bottom of this case, if they are retesting samples. I hope this is a statement of intent.

Alternatively,  they may pass the high costs - and the samples over to SY. Unless we really know what is happening with relations between the investigations we can't tell what will happen. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

If SY request the re-testing, then Portugal side is within their right to ask SY to bear the cost, especially more so if they don't share common goal.
  But I hope the new testing will be done in Portugal or given to an independent body.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by Gaggzy on 15.10.14 16:29



Anyone who believes modern-day detectives would have caught Jack The Ripper in no time; here's two guys who sort of blow that particular myth right out of the water!

Rock on, Andy. Nice to see your left-over pizza box tucked safely under your arm.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by canada12 on 15.10.14 18:45

The Sun now claiming this:
Maddie Brit cops plan new forensic tests

Probe on DNA found at holiday site

EXCLUSIVE
By MATT WILKINSON
Published: 3 hrs ago

British cops investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are pinning their hopes on a technological breakthrough after getting the go ahead from Portuguese authorities.


I don't have a Sun account so I can't provide more details.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6001779/Mystery-DNA-to-be-tested-in-Maddie-investigation.html?CMP=SOC-Sun-Twitter-11_20_2013-191-0-0-0

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by Guest on 15.10.14 18:53

Yet Dr Amaral insists the technology WAS around then:


[url=http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post287348.html?hilit=test hair#p287348]http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post287348.html?hilit=test%20hair#p287348[/url]



As to DNA evidence that was discovered in the McCanns’ rental car, Amaral was adamant that this could have been more thoroughly tested. While initial findings on blood were deemed inconclusive, Amaral explains hair samples were simply not followed up as British lab technicians claimed it was impossible to test hair samples without roots.

“It is possible, and even at the time it was possible!” Amaral insisted.

“These hair samples are in Portugal! They were returned in Portugal and they are in the files. It’s simple! All the public ministry has to do is take the hairs and send them to a European laboratory, or anywhere where these kinds of exams are done without roots.”

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by aiyoyo on 15.10.14 20:48

With thanks to Joana Morais.

English Police wishes to conduct further analyses (possibly in England)
15 OCTOBER 2014 | POSTED BY JOANA MORAIS LEAVE A COMMENT


National Institute of Forensic Medicine, Coimbra | photo André Barragon

The president of the Portuguese National Institute of Forensic Medicine (INML), Francisco Brízida Martins, said today in Coimbra, that the Scotland Yard detectives have expressed their wish to conduct further analyses to the collected evidence within the scope of the investigation to the Madeleine McCann case.

Scotland Yard have "expressed their wish to [make new analyses}", and the possibility of them being held in England or back at the National Institute of Forensic Medicine (INML) remains in the open, said Francisco Brízida Martins, after a three-hour meeting with five elements of the British police, two of which, experts in genetics.

These analyses would have to be made ​​"within the context of judicial cooperation" between the Portuguese and the British authorities and requested in a new letter rogatory, explained the head of INML, stressing that, although some vestiges may not be suitable for further testing, "today", with the technological evolution "we can go beyond what was possible a few years ago."

The Scotland Yard detectives, who are developing a parallel investigation to the Portuguese authorities "wanted to understand the procedures of the genetic and biological examinations" performed at the INML back in 2007, he said.

"There was a recognition of the work of the institute," and the INML "is available to carry out new [forensic] tests," he added.

The meeting between the British police and the institute began around 10:30am, in Coimbra, and ended at 13:30pm.

The Scotland Yard coordinator of the investigation to the Madeleine McCann case, Andy Redwood, refused to make any comments about the meeting with the members of the National Institute of Forensic Medicine.

The Scotland Yard detectives were gathered in a meeting, on Tuesday, with the PJ in Faro, three months after the last inquiries were made within the scope of the investigation to the Madeleine McCann case.

The British police was supposedly preparing new questionings to the suspects within this case, following the questioning of four arguidos and a dozen witnesses, back in July,.

In August, Scotland Yard handed the fifth letter rogatory the the Portuguese authorities, in order to conduct new investigations, which have not yet been authorized by the new prosecutor of the Public Ministry of Portimão.

Earlier in June, forensic British detectives, PJ and GNR officers performed several searches with sniffer dogs, at the lookout of Praia da Luz and in terrains at the entrance of the tourist resort of Aldeia da Luz.

Altogether, an area of ​​about 60 thousand square meters was investigated, including electricity, gas and sewage pipelines, buildings in ruins, with the help of sniffer dogs and "georadars", searches which proved to be fruitless.

Maddie McCann disappeared on May 3, 2007, from the bedroom where she was left asleep with her younger twin siblings, in an apartment of a tourist resort in Praia da Luz, in the Algarve.

in RTP w/ News Agency Lusa, 15 Oct. 2014

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by nglfi on 15.10.14 22:28

I've just watched a segment on the itv news, reporting about the DNA being retested. It focused mainly on how testing methods have improved since 2007. It also mentioned how any identification from the hairs recovered won't prove who took Madeleine but it might shed light on what happened.  Funnily enough,  there wasn't one mention of the parents being 'buoyed'???

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by palm tree on 15.10.14 22:28

Th daily star (I think) is saying this is a strangers dna found in 5a.
IMO

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by nglfi on 15.10.14 22:32

Of course,  a stranger's hair proves absolutely nothing. How many people stayed in that apartment before May 2007 who may have left a hair? And if it matches one of the current 'arguidos' who I believe are ex workers at the ocean club, then of course their DNA could well be in the apartment.  The question is what kind of samples were found? Hair is a lot easier to explain than semen for example....

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by noddy100 on 15.10.14 22:32

Are they talking about hair from the scenic?

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by nglfi on 15.10.14 22:38

I thought it was just the apartment but I might be wrong. What I find interesting is the chain of events that leads to a mention of the McCanns in these news pieces. What makes Clarence Mitchell decide whether or not to get a sentence in about the parents being 'buoyed'? Is it simply that he has no advance knowledge of these articles because they don't come from Team McCann? Can we determine a TM piece based on whether it mentions the parents?  Surely this kind of news is the most important to get in a mention for the parents being pleased because it helps their claim to innocence (yes, I know). I really hope things are moving in the right direction,  if a stranger's dna turns up and it turns out the parents 'didn't do it' then I will really start to question my sanity.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by noddy100 on 15.10.14 22:41

But lathe other tapas were in the apartment and workers etc how can there just be one 'other'

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by MRNOODLES on 15.10.14 22:43

@nglfi wrote:Of course,  a stranger's hair proves absolutely nothing. How many people stayed in that apartment before May 2007 who may have left a hair? And if it matches one of the current 'arguidos' who I believe are ex workers at the ocean club, then of course their DNA could well be in the apartment.  The question is what kind of samples were found? Hair is a lot easier to explain than semen for example....

Unless they're going for a stitch-up of a known perv on the dna data base. and happen to find their dna in 5a after all this time.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by Guest on 15.10.14 22:45

Do police officers have to give hair or DNA samples,in case something like this comes up.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by Geowoo on 15.10.14 22:53

If SY are poring over previous DNA findings and linking them to a patsy....suspect..They will find themselves in a heap of Sh...strife. The apartment was almost clinically and forensically clean! To the ridiculous extent that Mr McCann returned to Rothley to get Madeleine's DNA!  How do they hope to get any link at all to someone who breached that apartment.. Lifted Madeleine and didn't leave so much as a skin particle.. A molecular piece of him/herself..a print.. A single hair? It's a farce!
Someone somewhere is going to have to turn forensic science upside down if they want to pin this on any old codger..rascal or eggman.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by nglfi on 15.10.14 22:57

I'm hoping what they're actually doing is re testing Madeleine's hair to see if they can recover traces of sedation.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by jeanmonroe on 15.10.14 23:44

If SY are poring over previous DNA findings and linking them to a patsy....suspect..They will find themselves in a heap of Sh...strife.
-------------------------------------

Ala, Barry George!

ps: Wasn't one of the 'suspects' in July, at OG's 'insistence', now arguidos a 'local nutter'? (ala BG?)

pps: The McCanns, imo, NEED, (desperately?) 'THEIR' 38 Maddie Cops to 'PROVE' something, anything, to 'prove' GA WAS 'wrong' and 'claim' their 'damages' at libel case.

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Re: Police to review evidence collected from apt 5a

Post by roy rovers on 16.10.14 0:41

The events surrounding Operation Grange (as far as we know them) are so random and incomprehensible as to resemble a David Lynch movie (I hear he's remaking 'Twin Peaks' and promising to answer the 20 or so unresolved issues that he wasn't able to resolve in a double series) or like one of those mid period Bowie songs where he 'wrote' the lyrics by cutting stuff up then assembling it in a random order. Maybe David Lynch should forget 'Twin Peaks' and do 'Operation Grange' - just run the story as it is and leave them guessing at the end again.

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