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Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by BlueBag on 11.10.14 16:38

@palm tree wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Tierney states she printed the photographs around midnight. 
ROB says he gave  them to the GNR before 11 pm. Silvia Battista confirms the handing over of the passport iirc. 
Photographs of 5a must have been taken afterwards. 
A reconstruction would have been worth watching if they'd all stuck to their individual stories. 
GNR arrived ca 11.00,  PJ ca. 12.00

2 bits in bold.
So Tierney had "The camera' around midnight
The family were chucked out into another apartment
Photos of 5A were then taken
and the OTHER camera was still on the dining table.
And so is a, what I think, map, folded a certain way.
IMO
I think it's the colouring book.

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by HelenMeg on 11.10.14 17:24

@Lance De Boils wrote:I'd like to purport a theory. Just a theory.

Kate went to dinner on her own Thu night. Gerry was to follow on and join her there. He took a long time.
He hadn't returned to 5A at 9ish - he was only just leaving it to head for the tapas.

Please pull to pieces.
I think this is perfectly possible - we certainly cant believe any of their statements.  The fact that it was mentioned that Kate referred to Gerry taking a long time and possibly watching football supports this theory.
If he had gone wit her to TAPAS then there was never any need for her to refer to his taking a long time.

With such a lot to do on that evening then perfectly feasible that he went long after she had gone.... if your theory is correct what does it imply?

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by Lance De Boils on 11.10.14 17:52

This is something that keeps bugging me.

If G&K went to dinner together at 8.30, arriving at the tapas bar just after, there surely wasn't time for Kate to be moaning about Gerry taking a long time before Jane got up and left the table.

In the company of a few friends, with the wine flowing, how long would it take for someone to realise that their other half had been gone for 'too long' for what they were supposed to be doing? If Mrs de Boils had gone to the toilet, I probably wouldn't even notice she was taking ages till she'd been gone for at least half an hour. Maybe that's just me.

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by HelenMeg on 11.10.14 21:21

Yes - i thought of this the other day when I saw it being discussed on another thread about Gerry's timeline and that he could only have been away less than 10 mins or so (cant remember the exact details).  
It rings true that Kate may have said something like 'I bet he's watching the footy' in response to one of the friends wondering where Gerry was.
But she would have only said this after a good long period of time, IMO, 30 mins or so as you describe.
So I think your theory makes sense... 

It is logical to imagine if they were staging an abduction and GM was trying to 'set the scene' that he would take quite a long time..

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 11.10.14 21:39

The stuff about Kate "moaning on about Gerry being away for a long time"  came as far as I can be certain, from that ludicrous re-construction,
stage managed by Gerry and directed by Gerry / Corner or whoever.
The one where eventually Jane broke down in tears as Gerry trashed everything she had said, and effectively called her a liar, in front of the audience of the world.
Jane told the story but had clearly forgotten that in her statement she had said that she left the table exactly five minutes after Gerry.
Which means that given that it takes ONE minute Tapas to stairs,
and then a finite but calculable time - second gate / stairs / baby gate / patio windows / curtains / view children / have a pee, curtains / patio doors / baby gate / stairs / gate
and THEN Stand talking to JW
at which point JT crams herself past the two of them with the pushchair on a normal 2m pavement

means that this particular story about Kate complaining is a FABRICATION.  
A lie.
Kate of course makes no mention of it in her autobiography, so JT is on her own with this particular lie.  Even if she had been set up to tell it, she has been dumped.

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by Okeydokey on 12.10.14 1:00

@Lance De Boils wrote:This is something that keeps bugging me.

If G&K went to dinner together at 8.30, arriving at the tapas bar just after, there surely wasn't time for Kate to be moaning about Gerry taking a long time before Jane got up and left the table.

In the company of a few friends, with the wine flowing, how long would it take for someone to realise that their other half had been gone for 'too long' for what they were supposed to be doing? If Mrs de Boils had gone to the toilet, I probably wouldn't even notice she was taking ages till she'd been gone for at least half an hour. Maybe that's just me.

There are so many improbable things we are asked to believe...not least, remember, that they didn't have mobile phones or watches (thanks Clarence - who then had to revise that to just didn't have their mobile phones, you see, so couldn't communicate with each other, because these highly paid professionals, medical included, are not the sort of people to have working mobile phones about them on holiday)!

Not having mobile phones is essential to being able to weave in these bits of nonsense. Otherwise: "WTF R U up to G? Is it that trt frm the nite B4?!!??"....and maybe "K - jus seen man wiv child lkd like M - u sure she's safe???"

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 12.10.14 10:15

None of the stories fit together.
even allowing for imperfect witness recall most of them are plain nonsense, and only when you try to draw up the time line does it become clear that
thy have well and truly stuffed it up.
Yet again it is the inclusion of too much details which does that. The hall mark of a lying child.

"at 9.04 BY HIS WATCH" . . . Oh come on !

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by plebgate on 12.10.14 10:21

Too much detail yep I think that's right, but sadly she wouldn't go into any detail with the police when she was asked those 48 QUESTIONS.

Oh it was the lawyer who advised her to keep her trap shut - yeah, but she was NOT obliged to listen to that advice now was she?

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by tigger on 12.10.14 12:18

@PeterMac wrote:None of the stories fit together.
even allowing for imperfect witness recall most of them are plain nonsense, and only when you try to draw up the time line does it become clear that
thy have well and truly stuffed it up.
Yet again it is the inclusion of too much details which does that. The hall mark of a lying child.

"at 9.04 BY HIS WATCH" . . .   Oh come on !
But he wasn't wearing a watch, none of them were wearing watches, honest! Straight from the horses' , i.e. Clarence's mouth. This, according to him, explained the discrepancies in their statements. None of them wearing watches, yet knowing exactly when 15/30 minutes had passed and the need for another listen at the shutters or having a quick look in a pitch dark room.


Also not using mobiles although the various masts around PdL do not seem to agree on that point. Not only were the Tapas 9 not wearing watches, time became an elastic concept, Mrs. Fenn not hearing the commotion that took place around 10.00 pm untill 10.30 which she knew to be the right time as BBC news had just ended. Unless BBC decided on another time to broadcast the ten o"clock news that night.

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 12.10.14 14:02

(In fact one of Clarence Mitchell’s more notorious outright falsehoods was to the effect that none of the group had watches or mobile phones with them, and that therefore the exact times were not to be taken as wholly accurate. [31]
Unfortunately for him he said this nearly a year after the Tapas7 group had drawn up two separate and detailed time lines on the night, and a third mutually agreed amalgamation of both, [32] but also the statements of the Tapas 7, of Gerry McCann “When asked at what time he went to check on the children the night Madeleine disappeared, he recalls that this was around 21:04 according to his watch”, [33], and subsequently Kate McCann in her book “by his watch”. [34] , all contradict his assertion.
He backtracked six weeks later. [35] Quite why Mitchell invented, or was asked to tell this particular lie is difficult to understand.)


31 The Guardian 06 April 2008 
32 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap21
33 Arguido questioning of Gerald Patrick McCann, 7th of September 2007
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta3
34 “madeleine”, by Kate McCann, ibid. p.70
35 Yorkshire Post 29 May 2008 

31 Mitchell said he was not surprised by the inconsistencies in the initial accounts. 'You had nine people in a bar without watches on, without mobile phones, and absolute panic set in when they realised what had happened.”
32 •
33 When asked at what time he went to check on the children the night Madeleine disappeared, he recalls that this was around 21:04 according to his watch.
34 “After ordering his food, Gerry left to so the first check just before 9.05 by his watch.”
35 "It was made out to be the biggest 'conspiracy' since the Diana 'conspiracy,'" says Mitchell. "Some of the group (of friends in the tapas restaurant) had their watches on that night, and others didn't.”


And this lying creature wants to be an MP ! !

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by truthfultiger on 12.10.14 14:58

I think he'll make a great MP PeterMac. Isn't lying one of the entry qualifications?

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New window of opportunity

Post by Monty Heck on 12.10.14 15:12

2104 GM leaves Tapas bar
2105 Arrives side gate
2106 Gerry in apartment checks chldren
2106 Uses toilet
2107 Leaves via patio doors
2108 GM closes all doors behind him and goes down stairs into street
2109 - 2116 Talks to JW

Such a curious thing to do, in the middle of dining out with wife/friends, to spend this amount of time in chit chat with somone he bareley knew.  All that was needed was a brief acknowledgement yet, with hot food awaiting his return his priority is to engage in a fairly lengthy yet banal and unnecessary discussion with a virtual stranger, as if in no hurry at all to get back.

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by PeterMac on 12.10.14 15:27

@Monty Heck wrote:2104 GM leaves Tapas bar
2105 Arrives side gate
2106 Gerry in apartment checks chldren
2106 Uses toilet
2107 Leaves via patio doors
2108 GM closes all doors behind him and goes down stairs into street
2109 - 2116 Talks to JW

Such a curious thing to do, in the middle of dining out with wife/friends, to spend this amount of time in chit chat with somone he barely knew.  All that was needed was a brief acknowledgement yet, with hot food awaiting his return his priority is to engage in a fairly lengthy yet banal and unnecessary discussion with a virtual stranger, as if in no hurry at all to get back.

From which we can draw a reasonable conclusion . . . .

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by canada12 on 12.10.14 19:18

@PeterMac wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:2104 GM leaves Tapas bar
2105 Arrives side gate
2106 Gerry in apartment checks chldren
2106 Uses toilet
2107 Leaves via patio doors
2108 GM closes all doors behind him and goes down stairs into street
2109 - 2116 Talks to JW

Such a curious thing to do, in the middle of dining out with wife/friends, to spend this amount of time in chit chat with somone he barely knew.  All that was needed was a brief acknowledgement yet, with hot food awaiting his return his priority is to engage in a fairly lengthy yet banal and unnecessary discussion with a virtual stranger, as if in no hurry at all to get back.

From which we can draw a reasonable conclusion . . . .

Gerry is providing a needed distraction while JT removes Madeleine's body, IMO. JT is not where she claims she was standing - hence JW does not see her. Gerry knows JT is not there. Gerry ensures JW is not looking at the place where JT is. JT slips out of the apartment with M, and confirms that she has seen Gerry and JW, just not from the perspective she later claims. The fact that JW does not see JT confirms back to both JT and Gerry that she was not spotted. Just one of many theories. IMO only.

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Re: Back to basics - NEW Window of opportunity

Post by BlueBag on 12.10.14 19:24

@canada12 wrote:Gerry is providing a needed distraction while JT removes Madeleine's body, IMO. 

This is way too convoluted for me.

Whatever happened will eventually have a simpler explanation.

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