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Crèche signatures revisited

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by HelenMeg on 27.10.14 10:47

I think they would only agree if they also had a motive for the cover up.  If they had no links to the Mc Canns or Tapas 7 then highly unlikely that they would agree for their daughter to be used - in fact highly unlikely that they would even be asked!

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by NickE on 27.10.14 11:10

@AndyB wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@Atomic Peanut wrote:I don't understand how a pre-planned fake abduction involving a bogus lookalike, who has been standing in for the real child all week, could work
Once you have carried it out, and the lookalike has been whisked off home, you are still left with the real one. What then?
On the other hand, if the real one has met some fate earlier in the week, thus leading to the plan, it's a bit of a coincidence that there's another similar-looking child with the same name, whose family are friends with the real one's family, who just happens to be on holiday at the same resort, isn't it?
I cannot believe in the "pre-planned fake abduction involving a bogus lookalike"  but I can believe in the real Madeleine meeting a tragic fate and then, due to a need to cover up her death so that other activities are not  exposed, they use another girl  to hide the time of death...
Why would the other parents agree to allow their daughter to be involved in it?
That's a good question.
Mason bros helps each other maybe =) whistling
I think Kiko said that the Naylors got involved without knowledge.
I can't access Twitter now,I can check his tweets later and come back.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 11:36

Dee Coy wrote:Carrying her through the streets of Luz to the taxi home, you mean? omg

I always thought Redwood's Crecheman had to be based on a loose truth, in case he's ever needed in court.

This is the description given by Jose Cardoso:


António Castelo says the girl was wearing pink pyjamas and is certain she was in fact Madeleine.

A taxi driver for the past 17 years, he says he noted her eye, “As my son, who is a police officer, has a similar defect”. “Madeleine was with three men, one of whom looked like Robert Murat, and a blonde woman,” he said.

“The blonde woman with them looked to me like Madeleine’s mother but I couldn’t say whether or not it was her,” he said.


These are the clothes and blanket Crecheman's child was dressed in, thanks to the Daily Mail:



So we know it is a FACT that Madeleine McCann did not have a coloboma.

The taxi driver is sure that the girl in pink pajamas that looked like Madeleine McCann had a coloboma as his son has one.

Does Madeleine Ryder have a coloboma??

Was she the girl in the taxi?

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 11:40

@Atomic Peanut wrote:I don't understand how a pre-planned fake abduction involving a bogus lookalike, who has been standing in for the real child all week, could work
Once you have carried it out, and the lookalike has been whisked off home, you are still left with the real one. What then?
On the other hand, if the real one has met some fate earlier in the week, thus leading to the plan, it's a bit of a coincidence that there's another similar-looking child with the same name, whose family are friends with the real one's family, who just happens to be on holiday at the same resort, isn't it?

Exactly! What a coincidence! That's why I wanted to find out when the Nylers arrived in the resort. It seems they arrived on the same day as the McCanns.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by Rob Royston on 27.10.14 11:43

@Atomic Peanut wrote:I don't understand how a pre-planned fake abduction involving a bogus lookalike, who has been standing in for the real child all week, could work
Once you have carried it out, and the lookalike has been whisked off home, you are still left with the real one. What then?
On the other hand, if the real one has met some fate earlier in the week, thus leading to the plan, it's a bit of a coincidence that there's another similar-looking child with the same name, whose family are friends with the real one's family, who just happens to be on holiday at the same resort, isn't it?

Yes, but what if it was to be a real abduction, hidden away for a long term and then dramatically found. If she was to be well gone before the alarm was raised then the "sub" would be a necessity. When the "disaster" happened only some of the players would need to know, the rest continued playing their parts.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 11:57

@Joss wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:This is really interesting - again I really think all of these people were bonded together by something - some activity
Yes it is, we just have to figure out what it is, if we do, we might have a motive for the cover-up.
Money? Sex? Fame? Political ambitions? Not necessarily in that order.
I definitely think money & fame as we have already seen that play/ing out. I think certain people in this case sold their souls for that. The sex part i don't know, but politics in this case is also involved. I read elsewhere that this case is a code for something, and when we look at all the players involved that could well be. In my personal opinion there are definitely big cover ups going on and have been right from the start. Some people have discussed microchipping, but i don't think its that. I guess we will see how it all pans out.

Think how many people have made money out of this 'abduction'. The media, lawyers, detectives, the McCanns...it's been a nice little gravy train. It was a good story to bury bad news, imo. Among other things. And I do think it was designed to induce paranoia in people/parents so as to pave the way for increased surveillance which was/is very much on the agenda with the 'war on terror.'

A good vehicle to take the public's eye off what might really be going on. Why else would there have been all this emphasis on silly world-wide sightings? When it was so obvious from the very beginning that it was all a scam?

It's astonishing that TM have got away with it for so long. Their version of events has never stood up to scrutiny. So why the very high level support, if it was just an accident/drug overdose and the parents decided to fake an abduction to cover up for Madeleine's death?  Why wold that be a matter of 'national security'? Detective Amaral was astonished at the high level of intervention.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by Rob Royston on 27.10.14 12:01

@j.rob wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:Carrying her through the streets of Luz to the taxi home, you mean? omg

I always thought Redwood's Crecheman had to be based on a loose truth, in case he's ever needed in court.

This is the description given by Jose Cardoso:


António Castelo says the girl was wearing pink pyjamas and is certain she was in fact Madeleine.

A taxi driver for the past 17 years, he says he noted her eye, “As my son, who is a police officer, has a similar defect”. “Madeleine was with three men, one of whom looked like Robert Murat, and a blonde woman,” he said.

“The blonde woman with them looked to me like Madeleine’s mother but I couldn’t say whether or not it was her,” he said.


These are the clothes and blanket Crecheman's child was dressed in, thanks to the Daily Mail:



So we know it is a FACT that Madeleine McCann did not have a coloboma.

The taxi driver is sure that the girl in pink pajamas that looked like Madeleine McCann had a coloboma as his son has one.

Does Madeleine Ryder have a coloboma??

Was she the girl in the taxi?
They did not get in this taxi in Luz. They got this taxi at the Taxi Square in Morte Gordo, about an hour from Luz. The girl in the taxi could not have been carried by Crecheman at the times quoted by Jane Tanner.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 12:03

@Rob Royston wrote:
@Atomic Peanut wrote:I don't understand how a pre-planned fake abduction involving a bogus lookalike, who has been standing in for the real child all week, could work
Once you have carried it out, and the lookalike has been whisked off home, you are still left with the real one. What then?
On the other hand, if the real one has met some fate earlier in the week, thus leading to the plan, it's a bit of a coincidence that there's another similar-looking child with the same name, whose family are friends with the real one's family, who just happens to be on holiday at the same resort, isn't it?

Yes, but what if it was to be a real abduction, hidden away for a long term and then dramatically found. If she was to be well gone before the alarm was raised then the "sub" would be a necessity. When the "disaster" happened only some of the players would need to know, the rest continued playing their parts.

clapping clapping clapping

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 12:14

@Rob Royston wrote:
@Hicks wrote:Lets go out on a tangent for a moment and assume that we are on the right track in that the Naylor's, Joe Rider and his partner were involved. What would bind them? why would both couples be complicit in covering up for the McCann's?
Maybe these two couples were not complicit in covering up for the McCanns. They could have been complicit in the original plan. If the couple with the assumed "sub" daughter were delivered to a car with UK plates by the taxi, then it is most likely that they arrived from the UK by car. Was this so that they could slip away to Spain before the alarm was raised at PDL as the timing seems to suggest.
It also follows that when they arrived, or when they left their car at the Hotel Apolo, they must have been transported to their accommodation at PDL. Was the third man the person who arranged the accommodation and drove them from there to PDL, and back to Monte Gordo on the 3rd May to transfer to a taxi for the short trip to the hotel?
It would suggest that the "sub" would need to have been part of the plan from the beginning? Was Maddie to be taken away early in the week but the alarm was not to happen until the Thursday night?
It is quite possible that the "sub's" parents were unaware that there had been a "disaster".
All IMO of course.


That all sounds quite plausible to me. 

TM made a mess of the original plan. 

But they thought they would get away with it because of the 'wider agenda.'

Those pesky old dogs, eh? Unlike TM, they just don't lie!

lol4

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 12:24

Kate McCann: "Madeleine is still alive until someone proves otherwise.......There are many examples of abducted children being recovered years later......"

"Madeleine's case has greatly increased public awareness of the whole issue of missing, abducted and exploited children."

Yes, indeed. 

As Kate herself writes: "The majority of completed child abductions are parental/family abductions, with 16 per cent involving abduction by a stranger."

It would seem that this case is no exception, then.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by Guest on 27.10.14 12:26

@Rob Royston wrote:
@j.rob wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:Carrying her through the streets of Luz to the taxi home, you mean? omg

I always thought Redwood's Crecheman had to be based on a loose truth, in case he's ever needed in court.

This is the description given by Jose Cardoso:


António Castelo says the girl was wearing pink pyjamas and is certain she was in fact Madeleine.

A taxi driver for the past 17 years, he says he noted her eye, “As my son, who is a police officer, has a similar defect”. “Madeleine was with three men, one of whom looked like Robert Murat, and a blonde woman,” he said.

“The blonde woman with them looked to me like Madeleine’s mother but I couldn’t say whether or not it was her,” he said.


These are the clothes and blanket Crecheman's child was dressed in, thanks to the Daily Mail:



So we know it is a FACT that Madeleine McCann did not have a coloboma.

The taxi driver is sure that the girl in pink pajamas that looked like Madeleine McCann had a coloboma as his son has one.

Does Madeleine Ryder have a coloboma??

Was she the girl in the taxi?
They did not get in this taxi in Luz. They got this taxi at the Taxi Square in Morte Gordo, about an hour from Luz. The girl in the taxi could not have been carried by Crecheman at the times quoted by Jane Tanner.

Thanks, Roy.

If it's the Riders, then, that's a complicated journey. Transport (somehow) to Morte Gordo, taxi to hotel, rendevous with van at hotel.

Read yesterday that the taxi driver wanted money for further interviews, which always makes me extremely sceptical.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by Hicks on 27.10.14 12:27

@sharonl wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@Hicks wrote:Lets go out on a tangent for a moment and assume that we are on the right track in that the Naylor's, Joe Rider and his partner were involved. What would bind them? why would both couples be complicit in covering up for the McCann's? Swinging maybe?

I have read elsewhere that it is possible that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien already knew the Naylor's.

JT mentions something about the Naylor's in her statement. Something about meeting them on the beach. Tanner refers to Ainne Naylor as 'Oryna' .

All imo.
Mr Naylor worked at "Landsbanki Securities" at the time and later at "The Matrix group".
http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Robert-Naylor/466272317  
http://www.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=6436520119&page_url=//www.matrix-film-finance.co.uk/corporate_capital/investment_funds/investment_funds_team&page_last_updated=2012-10-28T13:11:26&firstName=Robert&lastName=Naylor


Joe Rider is a video game guru.
http://magmagroup.co/who-we-are/people/joe-rider/


I think Rider had an office in the same building as Landsbanki where R Naylor worked in 2007.
This "beach statement",Was it Jane who also mentioned something about a person she thought was called "Rob"?
According to "Kiko" did Naylors and Tanner/O'Brien knew each other through sailing.
JT statement May 10th.

2 May...... she went to the beach where she met DP and FP. She and other members of the group made the aquaintence of, in the course of their tennis lessons, a lady called O. The deponents husband ROB, also knew the lady's husband named Rob from windsurfing classes. The couple Rob and O were also guests at the complex. That morning having been to her daughters tennis class, the deponent went to the beach meeting ROB there. From what she knows the couple, Rob and O, have two children ( a girl of three and a younger child not knowing whether boy or girl)She think they were Londoners. Just Normal people'.

In your link Joe Rider appears to be a director of Magma Ignite.  I have looked him up as a director and found nothing.  Also, there are two companies registered at companies in October 2010, Magna Ignite and Magna Ignite Digital, both dormant and neither of which he appears to have ever been a director.  Can anyone shed any light on this?  
Hi sharonl, I think his correct name is Jonathan Rider. Joe for short perhaps?

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You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 12:29

Dee Coy wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
Perhaps the fake Madeleine and her parents fled PDL on the evening of the 3rd( in the taxi) as they were not prepared to continue with the scam. Was the simulated abduction planned for a later time?  Is that why GM had no other choice but to remove the body quickly, as seen by the Smiths. A disaster indeed!

All my opinion. Nothing stated as fact.

"They've taken her!"
WOW!!!

'The bastards have taken her!'

So this might have been the reason for the weird bowing......because they  were literally praying to God to save their necks as they knew they were up to their necks in it!

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 12:31

Jez Wilkins bailed out too, imo.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by Guest on 27.10.14 12:36

@j.rob wrote:


That all sounds quite plausible to me. 

TM made a mess of the original plan. 

But they thought they would get away with it because of the 'wider agenda.'

Those pesky old dogs, eh? Unlike TM, they just don't lie!

lol4

Was reading Goncalo's book earlier, looking for something else. Noticed this again, about when the cadaver and blood dog searches were being conducted in 5A:

"At around 10pm, police officers see Gerry McCann, going past the apartment at the wheel of his hire car, a Renault Mégane Scenic, an impenetrable look on his face."

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4922-chapter-8-accused

Sooo revealing. In my opinion.




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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 12:40


p hope that Madeleine is still alive


'Kate and Gerry have never given up hope that Madeleine is still alive that they might have got away with it



http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/421950/Madeleine-McCann-hunt-makes-progress

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by NickE on 27.10.14 12:42

@Hicks wrote:
@sharonl wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@Hicks wrote:Lets go out on a tangent for a moment and assume that we are on the right track in that the Naylor's, Joe Rider and his partner were involved. What would bind them? why would both couples be complicit in covering up for the McCann's? Swinging maybe?

I have read elsewhere that it is possible that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien already knew the Naylor's.

JT mentions something about the Naylor's in her statement. Something about meeting them on the beach. Tanner refers to Ainne Naylor as 'Oryna' .

All imo.
Mr Naylor worked at "Landsbanki Securities" at the time and later at "The Matrix group".
http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Robert-Naylor/466272317  
http://www.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=6436520119&page_url=//www.matrix-film-finance.co.uk/corporate_capital/investment_funds/investment_funds_team&page_last_updated=2012-10-28T13:11:26&firstName=Robert&lastName=Naylor


Joe Rider is a video game guru.
http://magmagroup.co/who-we-are/people/joe-rider/


I think Rider had an office in the same building as Landsbanki where R Naylor worked in 2007.
This "beach statement",Was it Jane who also mentioned something about a person she thought was called "Rob"?
According to "Kiko" did Naylors and Tanner/O'Brien knew each other through sailing.
JT statement May 10th.

2 May...... she went to the beach where she met DP and FP. She and other members of the group made the aquaintence of, in the course of their tennis lessons, a lady called O. The deponents husband ROB, also knew the lady's husband named Rob from windsurfing classes. The couple Rob and O were also guests at the complex. That morning having been to her daughters tennis class, the deponent went to the beach meeting ROB there. From what she knows the couple, Rob and O, have two children ( a girl of three and a younger child not knowing whether boy or girl)She think they were Londoners. Just Normal people'.

In your link Joe Rider appears to be a director of Magma Ignite.  I have looked him up as a director and found nothing.  Also, there are two companies registered at companies in October 2010, Magna Ignite and Magna Ignite Digital, both dormant and neither of which he appears to have ever been a director.  Can anyone shed any light on this?  
Hi sharonl, I think his correct name is Jonathan Rider. Joe for short perhaps?

That is correct.
Jonathan "Joe" Rider.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by Joss on 27.10.14 12:42

@j.rob wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
@NickE wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:This is really interesting - again I really think all of these people were bonded together by something - some activity
Yes it is, we just have to figure out what it is, if we do, we might have a motive for the cover-up.
Money? Sex? Fame? Political ambitions? Not necessarily in that order.
I definitely think money & fame as we have already seen that play/ing out. I think certain people in this case sold their souls for that. The sex part i don't know, but politics in this case is also involved. I read elsewhere that this case is a code for something, and when we look at all the players involved that could well be. In my personal opinion there are definitely big cover ups going on and have been right from the start. Some people have discussed microchipping, but i don't think its that. I guess we will see how it all pans out.

Think how many people have made money out of this 'abduction'. The media, lawyers, detectives, the McCanns...it's been a nice little gravy train. It was a good story to bury bad news, imo. Among other things. And I do think it was designed to induce paranoia in people/parents so as to pave the way for increased surveillance which was/is very much on the agenda with the 'war on terror.'

A good vehicle to take the public's eye off what might really be going on. Why else would there have been all this emphasis on silly world-wide sightings? When it was so obvious from the very beginning that it was all a scam?

It's astonishing that TM have got away with it for so long. Their version of events has never stood up to scrutiny. So why the very high level support, if it was just an accident/drug overdose and the parents decided to fake an abduction to cover up for Madeleine's death?  Why wold that be a matter of 'national security'? Detective Amaral was astonished at the high level of intervention.
Yes, it really all is incredulous, and doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by HelenMeg on 27.10.14 12:47

@j.rob wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
Perhaps the fake Madeleine and her parents fled PDL on the evening of the 3rd( in the taxi) as they were not prepared to continue with the scam. Was the simulated abduction planned for a later time?  Is that why GM had no other choice but to remove the body quickly, as seen by the Smiths. A disaster indeed!

All my opinion. Nothing stated as fact.

"They've taken her!"
WOW!!!

'The bastards have taken her!'

So this might have been the reason for the weird bowing......because they  were literally praying to God to save their necks as they knew they were up to their necks in it!
I though the weird bowing was done to conceal what was lying on the bed - the items of clothing etc that should not have been there...

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by Rob Royston on 27.10.14 12:50

Dee Coy wrote:
@Rob Royston wrote:
@j.rob wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:Carrying her through the streets of Luz to the taxi home, you mean? omg

I always thought Redwood's Crecheman had to be based on a loose truth, in case he's ever needed in court.

This is the description given by Jose Cardoso:


António Castelo says the girl was wearing pink pyjamas and is certain she was in fact Madeleine.

A taxi driver for the past 17 years, he says he noted her eye, “As my son, who is a police officer, has a similar defect”. “Madeleine was with three men, one of whom looked like Robert Murat, and a blonde woman,” he said.

“The blonde woman with them looked to me like Madeleine’s mother but I couldn’t say whether or not it was her,” he said.


These are the clothes and blanket Crecheman's child was dressed in, thanks to the Daily Mail:



So we know it is a FACT that Madeleine McCann did not have a coloboma.

The taxi driver is sure that the girl in pink pajamas that looked like Madeleine McCann had a coloboma as his son has one.

Does Madeleine Ryder have a coloboma??

Was she the girl in the taxi?
They did not get in this taxi in Luz. They got this taxi at the Taxi Square in Morte Gordo, about an hour from Luz. The girl in the taxi could not have been carried by Crecheman at the times quoted by Jane Tanner.

Thanks, Roy.

If it's the Riders, then, that's a complicated journey. Transport (somehow) to  Morte Gordo, taxi to hotel, rendevous with van at hotel.

Read yesterday that the taxi driver wanted money for further interviews, which always makes me extremely sceptical.

It's not really complicated. The UK plated Jeep is parked in the hotel car park, well away from PDL so not likely to draw attention. There were two men as well as the family. One could have been his friend RN and the other could have been the person who provided the transport for the journey, a Robert Murat Look-a-like according to the taxi driver. I have never seen anything about where the Riders were accommodated, that would make things a bit clearer.

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 12:50

"At around 10pm, police officers see Gerry McCann, going past the apartment at the wheel of his hire car, a Renault Mégane Scenic, an impenetrable look on his face."




A bit like this, maybe?





http://www.mccannfiles.com/id1.html

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 13:00

@HelenMeg wrote:
@j.rob wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
Perhaps the fake Madeleine and her parents fled PDL on the evening of the 3rd( in the taxi) as they were not prepared to continue with the scam. Was the simulated abduction planned for a later time?  Is that why GM had no other choice but to remove the body quickly, as seen by the Smiths. A disaster indeed!

All my opinion. Nothing stated as fact.

"They've taken her!"
WOW!!!

'The bastards have taken her!'

So this might have been the reason for the weird bowing......because they  were literally praying to God to save their necks as they knew they were up to their necks in it!
I though the weird bowing was done to conceal what was lying on the bed - the items of clothing etc that should not have been there...


The McCanns always give themselves away with their body language. The police were astonished by this bowing gesture.

I think they had been thrown to the wolves and they were praying for their very lives.

IMO

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 13:20

Who had the 'f***ing bastards' taken - ill/injured/sedated/dying/dead Madeleine?

Or Madelene?

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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by Snifferdog on 27.10.14 13:31

Now that is an interesting statement j.rob.aA perfect fit for the puzzle piece. Imo.
clapping

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“‘Conspiracy stuff’ is now shorthand for unspeakable truth.”
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Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by j.rob on 27.10.14 13:48

@Snifferdog wrote:Now that is an interesting statement j.rob.aA perfect fit for the puzzle piece. Imo.
clapping
Maybe Madelene N was supposed to have been 'abducted' on Thursday night (or a later night even - some of the wider 'group' players stayed for two weeks). 

Jane Tanner's 'Tanner-man' would have been the supposed 'abductor' - in reality someone complicit in the faked abduction plot - carrying away Madelene N.

Earlier in the week, Madeleine McCann should have been whisked away from OC. But something went wrong. Plan A was aborted.

Plan B was hatched.

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