The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hello!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When posting please be mindful that this forum is primarily about the death of a three year old girl.

Regards,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Maddie`s left arm

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Synes on 14.09.14 11:19

Just because you don't agree with me bobbin does not make me a "pro-mccann" do not be so quick to make assumptions and pigeonhole people.

Synes

Posts : 15
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-06-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Guest on 14.09.14 11:26

@MRNOODLES wrote:I've just showed my wife that picture to see what she thought.   Who I might add hasn't looked into that case with any great depth, but thinks the Mcs has lot to answer for.  Anyway nonchalantly she just said, "that don't look right, blue and pink icing, it looks like it's the twins cake.  and the twins have been removed and Maddie put in".

No doubt this is the twins' cake. The brown icing spells Amelie at the top and Sean at the bottom.  There are also two candles - two twins, second birthday.

Have the Mcs ever claimed this to be Madeleine's birthday or it that just the media's misinterpretation?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by .Guest.. on 14.09.14 11:31

@palm tree wrote:Off topic I know, but has anyone noticed the Bluebag/ blue case on he unit behind km? Looks as though there's the stickers from a flight also. 
IMO

I saw that as maybe a cool box or similar however it could be a bag. What is more interesting is when blowing the pic up for a better look at the blue object I noticed Km`s left sleeve is rather baggy when the right one is tight on her arm.

.Guest..

Posts : 132
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by .Guest.. on 14.09.14 11:41

Dee Coy wrote:
@MRNOODLES wrote:I've just showed my wife that picture to see what she thought.   Who I might add hasn't looked into that case with any great depth, but thinks the Mcs has lot to answer for.  Anyway nonchalantly she just said, "that don't look right, blue and pink icing, it looks like it's the twins cake.  and the twins have been removed and Maddie put in".

No doubt this I the twins cake. The brown icing spells Amelie at the top and Sean at the bottom.  There are also two candles - two twins, second birthday.

Have the Mcs ever claimed this to be Madeleine's birthday or it that just the media's misinterpretation?

Agree about the cake being for the twins but theoretically it could be for their 1st birthday as there would be a candle for each of them. Now MBM is 20mths older than the twins so in this pic she has to be either(2yrs 8 mths old or  3 yrs 8 mths. She looks to be the older of the 2 ages to me.

.Guest..

Posts : 132
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Masterblaster on 14.09.14 12:20

It has probably been said before, but I do not think that this is a photograph at all but a still taken from a video recording which could account for the numerous anomalies, if it was from a still camera the subjects would be posing.

Just my opinion.

Masterblaster

Posts : 30
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2014-06-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by j.rob on 14.09.14 18:02

@inspirespirit wrote:You have made your mind up, so I don't think anything will change it.  I have photoshopped photographs before and it definitely doesn't look photoshopped to me, especially not a whole woman being photoshopped into it in that position.

I worry that these conspiracy theories regarding photos that were taken before the event, just muddies the water.  I bet the McCann team laugh their socks off and think this will make this lot look a right load of idiots  if it ever went to court.

Even if she spent most of her time with Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents, or Joe bloggs down the road, it doesn't mean she didn't spend time at home and photographs would have been taken.

That is a normal photograph of a kiddie being held up to blow out a couple of candles.  If it was anything like mine, I would put the candles on 2 or 3 times for them to blow it out and would have a party for the littlies and one for the adults.  Plenty of plates there so deffo a few folk there.

We need to start looking at what is important and stop spending so much times on something, that quite frankly, has no importance in the scheme of things.

It is so far from being a 'normal photo' that it is laughable. Madeleine looks much older than two years old there. I am also pretty sure that this photo appears somewhere (Gerry's blog?) with a caption underneath saying it was taken at the twins' second birthday. Which would have been 1st February 2007. So Madeleine would have been three and three-quarters. If the photo was taken in February, why are they all wearing summer clothes? I can't imagine Gerry having the heating on full-blast. And Kate mentions quite a few times in her book how she feels the cold - having to wear five layers in the evening at the Tapas restaurant, for instance.

If it is the twins' birthday party, where are they?

And why is Kate wielding a knife in that extraordinary fashion? As though she is holding a dagger. Plus in her left hand - is she left handed? 

I tried holding a carving knife in that fashion in my left hand (I am right handed) and it felt so wrong that I find it quite disturbing. This is not how you go about cutting a cake at a children's birthday party. The 'normal' photo would include the twins. The adults would be smiling at whoever was taking the photo. And Kate's hand would be over an appropriate knife for cutting a cake, with the knife level with the top of the cake.

I presume the photo is some kind of 'warning'. Was/is Aunt Norah a Mc-sceptic? 

We know from Kate's book that Gerry had some kind of row with family and friends who had come out after Madeleine's 'abduction'. On page 110 Kate describes how Gerry had gone round to one of the apartments the party was occupying 'where apparently something was said that annoyed him, precipitating the discussion we had intended to hold in a rather calmer atmosphere.'


I imagine that a few people got sent home with fleas in their ears. And seeing how TM intimidated witnesses, apparently, and then Carter Rucked everyone, I would imagine that family and friends are scared to speak out.

j.rob

Posts : 2243
Reputation : 231
Join date : 2014-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by j.rob on 14.09.14 18:14

Who/what is the the face reflected in the toaster? Looks like some kind of grotesque gargoyle.

j.rob

Posts : 2243
Reputation : 231
Join date : 2014-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Newintown on 14.09.14 19:08

@canada12 wrote:Regarding the cake plate and the reflection... I'm one of the ones who believes some of the photos have been altered in one way or another. I used to believe the cake reflection was wrong, along with the fold on top of the dishtowel which I believed couldn't be reflected on the counter.

However I conducted an experiment, and I invite others to do the same. I got a large mirror and put it flat on a counter. I put a lid on it to replicate the plate, and I added another object to replicate the cake, and just to make it complete, I added some twisted toilet paper around the "cake" bottom to replicate the icing. Then I looked what was in the mirror. I changed my point of view a number of times, lowering my head and raising it, until I could see the same thing that was showing in the photo.

I was very embarrassed to have to admit that I could actually see the same thing that the photo shows - the icing, the cake, the whole thing. It's an anomaly of light rays and reflections and how we see light reflected.

I tried the same thing with the folded dish towel and I have to admit that the reflection again is accurate.

I'm a firm believer in testing things out, and because I was able to replicate this quite well, I had to change my opinion of this photo in particular. I invite you to try it yourselves and you'll get the same results.

That doesn't mean I don't believe other elements in the McCann collection of photos haven't been photoshopped. I remain convinced The Last Photo has been altered, as well as the Tennis Balls photo and the playground photo which shows Gerry with Madeleine in an impossible jumping position.

How thick was the toilet paper though?  Don't forget the icing around the bottom of the cake was perhaps less than half an inch thick or about 15 cms thick and was about 3 quarters of an inch in from the rim (20 cms) of the white china plate, the plate is definitely not a glass see through plate but a solid china one, if the icing was say an inch to 2 inches high (25 cms+) then it may reflect over the edge of the plate onto the shiny surface but the icing wasn't, it was a very narrow band of blue and white icing.  It is impossible for it to reflect on the shiny kitchen surface.

ETA: I should have asked what height was the toilet paper when you put it around the perimeter of the plate, because if it was far taller than the icing would have been than no doubt it would have shown up above the rim of the plate.  If a tall object is put in the middle of a plate that overrides the size of the plate than no doubt it will show up on a reflection in the surface underneath, but not a narrow band of coloured icing around the bottom, no way.

____________________
Laurie Levenson, Quoted in the Guardian ........

"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time"


Newintown

Posts : 1597
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by palm tree on 14.09.14 19:33

@Newintown wrote:
@palm tree wrote:Must have been pretty hot or km arms has just came from Jamaica. titter
IMO

I was going to mention that but didn't want to add more confusion.  It is noticeable that there is a white line around the bottom of each sleeve of KM's black top, whether that is again photoshopping or suntan and her white bits are showing, who knows.

It has also been mentioned in another thread on this same topic that KM's head has been superimposed on someone else's body as the head looks out of proportion to the body, which I agree with.
Have a look at Madeleines straps, there's white lines there also, the only problem is where they are, surely can't be tan marks cause she'd have to be in that exact position for awhile in hot sun. Or, is it the result of a flash? Also Madeleines left arm, why is there a red stripe in the middle? Looks like a scrab to me.
IMO

____________________
Fight for Madeleine

palm tree

Posts : 365
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by palm tree on 14.09.14 19:36

anon357 wrote:
@palm tree wrote:Off topic I know, but has anyone noticed the Bluebag/ blue case on he unit behind km? Looks as though there's the stickers from a flight also. 
IMO

I saw that as maybe a cool box or similar however it could be a bag. What is more interesting is when blowing the pic up for a better look at the blue object I noticed Km`s left sleeve is rather baggy when the right one is tight on her arm.
Zoomed and it does look like a cool box!

____________________
Fight for Madeleine

palm tree

Posts : 365
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by palm tree on 14.09.14 19:37

@j.rob wrote:Who/what is the the face reflected in the toaster? Looks like some kind of grotesque gargoyle.
Looks like gm to me. Strange.

____________________
Fight for Madeleine

palm tree

Posts : 365
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by canada12 on 14.09.14 19:51

@Newintown wrote:

How thick was the toilet paper though?  Don't forget the icing around the bottom of the cake was perhaps less than half an inch thick or about 15 cms thick and was about 3 quarters of an inch in from the rim (20 cms) of the white china plate, the plate is definitely not a glass see through plate but a solid china one, if the icing was say an inch to 2 inches high (25 cms+) then it may reflect over the edge of the plate onto the shiny surface but the icing wasn't, it was a very narrow band of blue and white icing.  It is impossible for it to reflect on the shiny kitchen surface.

ETA: I should have asked what height was the toilet paper when you put it around the perimeter of the plate, because if it was far taller than the icing would have been than no doubt it would have shown up above the rim of the plate.  If a tall object is put in the middle of a plate that overrides the size of the plate than no doubt it will show up on a reflection in the surface underneath, but not a narrow band of coloured icing around the bottom, no way.

It was just toilet paper twisted in a fashion to replicate the icing around the bottom of the plate. All I'm telling you is that I tried it and adjusted my point of view up and down, and I was able to see exactly the same kind of reflection as what's showing on the countertop in the photo.

As I mentioned, I invite you to try it yourself, rather than take my word for it. You can argue that it should be impossible - as I did - but when you see it for yourself, you can see that it isn't impossible. It defies logic and everything we seem to understand about what our brains and our eyes are telling us.

canada12

Posts : 1461
Reputation : 198
Join date : 2013-10-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by j.rob on 14.09.14 19:59

@palm tree wrote:
@j.rob wrote:Who/what is the the face reflected in the toaster? Looks like some kind of grotesque gargoyle.
Looks like gm to me. Strange.
big grin

j.rob

Posts : 2243
Reputation : 231
Join date : 2014-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Newintown on 14.09.14 20:58

@canada12 wrote:
@Newintown wrote:

How thick was the toilet paper though?  Don't forget the icing around the bottom of the cake was perhaps less than half an inch thick or about 15 cms thick and was about 3 quarters of an inch in from the rim (20 cms) of the white china plate, the plate is definitely not a glass see through plate but a solid china one, if the icing was say an inch to 2 inches high (25 cms+) then it may reflect over the edge of the plate onto the shiny surface but the icing wasn't, it was a very narrow band of blue and white icing.  It is impossible for it to reflect on the shiny kitchen surface.

ETA: I should have asked what height was the toilet paper when you put it around the perimeter of the plate, because if it was far taller than the icing would have been than no doubt it would have shown up above the rim of the plate.  If a tall object is put in the middle of a plate that overrides the size of the plate than no doubt it will show up on a reflection in the surface underneath, but not a narrow band of coloured icing around the bottom, no way.

It was just toilet paper twisted in a fashion to replicate the icing around the bottom of the plate. All I'm telling you is that I tried it and adjusted my point of view up and down, and I was able to see exactly the same kind of reflection as what's showing on the countertop in the photo.

As I mentioned, I invite you to try it yourself, rather than take my word for it. You can argue that it should be impossible - as I did - but when you see it for yourself, you can see that it isn't impossible. It defies logic and everything we seem to understand about what our brains and our eyes are telling us.

Were you using a solid white china plate or a see through glass one?

I haven't got a glossy work surface but I will try the experiment when I find one but logically there is no way that a blue and white trim around the cake which is within the edges of the white china plate can reflect on a surface underneath the plate.

____________________
Laurie Levenson, Quoted in the Guardian ........

"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time"


Newintown

Posts : 1597
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by canada12 on 14.09.14 22:16

It was a solid white plate.
I know it seems illogical.
But try it yourself :-)

canada12

Posts : 1461
Reputation : 198
Join date : 2013-10-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Markus 2 on 15.09.14 0:09

@inspirespirit wrote:I think this is probably the photo you mean.  I still don't see a prosthetic arm.  Just her mum holding it and pulling her towards her cake.  I think we can see things that aren't there if we look long enough.  Little children's hands do look odd, because they haven't got spacial awareness and are all over the place.

So many of the images you can clearly see they have been photo shopped ,this one to me is not so easy. The only thing maybe is that it has been set up. Now all those plates why is Madeline not sat around a table with the rest of her friends. There is  what appears  to be a pyramid glass, beaker  I presume, unless anyone knows what else it is.(upside down pyramid, founded by mason Albert Pike).  The two candles that look as much like  number eleven as two.  Kate holding the knife in her left hand as someone has already said, is she left handed. ?  Blow out the candles first before you pick up the knife. So all the symbols are there. If that were a key around Kates neck that would add further to the Symbolism but I dont think it is.What looks like a blue candle holder placed by the cake, a representation of the five pointed star ,maybe.
 "Left-Hand Path" belief systems in all walks of life ,value the advancement and preservation of the self, glorification of more temporal and terrestrial goals, and personal power rather than spiritual attainments. Seems like she is some way from those candles to blow them out, so is the staging of this photo more important.?
But if that were  the intent that would make the person holding Madeline part of it all as well, all  JMO.

Markus 2

Posts : 393
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-02-09

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by canada12 on 15.09.14 1:16

Here's my little re-creation of the birthday cake reflection, to show how the impossible actually does show up as the possible.

Picture #1:

The plate is represented by the lid of a sour cream container.
The cake is represented by the lid of a plastic drink container.
The icing is represented by some twisted toilet paper.
This is an overhead shot looking down so you can see the icing doesn't overlap the edge of the plate, and no portion of the green drink container lid overlaps the plate. In fact it's sitting more or less dead center on the "plate".
The whole thing is sitting on a mirror.

Picture #2:

As you can see, the "icing" is quite visible on the mirror, as is the spout part of the green lid. If the green lid was taller, you'd be able to see part of it as well, but I only had a short green lid handy.
I haven't moved the "cake" or the "icing" at all. I've just moved the camera so that it's viewing the "cake" from a lower perspective.

canada12

Posts : 1461
Reputation : 198
Join date : 2013-10-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Maddies left side

Post by .Guest.. on 15.09.14 6:48

I feel this discussion is going the way of previous threads regarding reflections etc and whilst fascinating in the different theories being put about, I feel it is straying from the original post where I asked about how often her left arm is shopped. I was going in the direction of a disability which might make her less attractive (in their opinion not mine) so they were beautifying her. However IF she had such a disability and they hid it and omitted to mention a fundamental distinction ,that would mean they intended deception from the start. I started to ask if there was another reason a lot of photos are doctored. (no pun intended) and it could be that she was fostered out and so did not actually live with her parents so they needed to create an illusion of family life. Maybe it is just coincidence that it is her left side that gets most attention when the alterations and photoshopping take place IMO. Perhaps her foster parent is being taken out of the shot and GM or Km are then put in. Or KBM gets exchanged for one of the twins etc.
The reason I suggested a disability is that sometimes coloboma is an indication of some kind of impairment and together with the hairstyle changes. ear dismorphia and the disguising of her left side so often I think it points to some sort of problem. I can`t reconcile that with videos of her where everything appears to be normal so if anyone could give me another explanation I would be grateful. Also from personal experience people notice a disabled person for no other reason than there is a feature about them that stands out. For me it would be my stepsons gait and the fact that he is quite vocal. If he had been in PDL everyone would have known about it, so it would have been mentioned by someone if MBM was disabled in an obvious way. Concluding, she was either not disabled or she was never there on THIS holiday. IMO

.Guest..

Posts : 132
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by canada12 on 15.09.14 7:36

You can see Madeleine jumping around, clapping her hands, dancing, etc in this video:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id194.html

If you go about 48 seconds in you'll be able to see whether she has any kind of disability. I think she favours one of her legs when she's dancing around, but that's just me. I could be wrong.

canada12

Posts : 1461
Reputation : 198
Join date : 2013-10-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Maddie`s left arm

Post by .Guest.. on 15.09.14 10:55

@canada12 wrote:You can see Madeleine jumping around, clapping her hands, dancing, etc in this video:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id194.html

If you go about 48 seconds in you'll be able to see whether she has any kind of disability. I think she favours one of her legs when she's dancing around, but that's just me. I could be wrong.
As I said I cannot reconcile the earlier vids of MBM that show her without disability with the nagging feeling regarding her left arm/side being changed so often. I welcome any proof that she had no such issues. This assumes of course that any vids/photos are actually of the correct child. Without medical records we will maybe never know her history. I agree the leg looks awkward but may just be an unco-ordinated little girl skipping around in carefree abandon. I fervently hope that is the case.
BTW strange choice of track to accompany the video above. "If I lay here" Was this TM`s choice or added by the site hosting the video.
The footage seems to come from their new home in Rothley which they moved to the previous year I think. Correction welcomed if I am wrong.

OMG is it perhaps her leg that is the issue and I have concentrated too much on her arm. Going to look for pics of her without her legs covered up that we are sure actually are her. Oh no, we don`t know if any of them really are her.

.Guest..

Posts : 132
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by joyce1938 on 15.09.14 11:35

Just in my opinion, a lot of the things we go on about ,would not see the light of day . It will take more proof i would think ,if to get it to court .cant see major issues decided on these photshopped  pictures ,if ofcourse they are . yes I too think its very possible we could be muddying the  waters  just doesn't seem relevant enough to sway a case of dissapearence , we just don't have proof needed.  The lady that has done the experiment to the cake and shiny surface does make sense ,but people don't seem to want to believe it . joyce1938

joyce1938

Posts : 814
Reputation : 93
Join date : 2010-04-20
Age : 78
Location : england

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by juliet on 15.09.14 12:08

Joyce1938, so many of the photographs produced by the McCanns are either bizarre or suspicious. If it can be shown they are fake or manipulated it shows the whole case is fake/ manipulated. This weird kitchen picture makes no sense - from the mystery of whose birthday it was supposed to be to the reflection anomalies, Kate's carving knife, the cake miles from poor Maddie "blowing out the candles", the huge pile of plates but no sign of guests or party preparations, the whole look of a staged and rather miserable event.

juliet

Posts : 579
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2011-06-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by inspirespirit on 15.09.14 12:37

Juliet, there are no reflection anomolies.   The birthday cake reflection has been cleared up if you look at previous posts where an experiment was done.  The trousers would not reflect as it would be her top reflecting, which is black...... if you look next to her the books are reflecting from high up, not the cupboard so it is all to do with angles and shadows.
If the birthday cake is for the twins (most probably, pink and blue), then they probably took it out in the kitchen to cut up and then re-lit the candles to let Maddie blow them out.  Something we have all done when you have more than one child.

inspirespirit

Posts : 180
Reputation : 32
Join date : 2014-06-26
Age : 63

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by palm tree on 15.09.14 12:47

Does anyone know the reason for the white tan marks on Madeleines arms? IMO, it's impossible to have them where they are.

____________________
Fight for Madeleine

palm tree

Posts : 365
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-08-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by pennylane on 15.09.14 12:59

@inspirespirit wrote:Juliet, there are no reflection anomolies.   The birthday cake reflection has been cleared up if you look at previous posts where an experiment was done.  The trousers would not reflect as it would be her top reflecting, which is black...... if you look next to her the books are reflecting from high up, not the cupboard so it is all to do with angles and shadows.
If the birthday cake is for the twins (most probably, pink and blue), then they probably took it out in the kitchen to cut up and then re-lit the candles to let Maddie blow them out.  Something we have all done when you have more than one child.
Spot on inspirespirit!   A perfectly normal picture, and so sad to contemplate the tragedy that awaits Maddie in the not too distant future.

pennylane

Posts : 2529
Reputation : 1190
Join date : 2009-12-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum