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MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by jozi on 02.09.14 11:53

@galena wrote:This is a disgrace - I signed the petition yesterday and shared it on facebook.  It's not as they are able to provide life-saving treatment - all they are offering is palliative care anyway - and there's every chance that the proton treatment his parents are seeking would be a better option.  What a pity that the medical establishment/social services hadn't intervened in such a drastic way in the case of Baby Peter, to give but one example.  They might actually have suceeded in saving a life ...
If they were to act as quickly for all the poor children that Doctors/Social Services Fail each and everyday, the world would be better and more kids would be saved ??? The Proton Treatment is a better option for this Brain Tumor as the one that is being done by the hospital can make the child blind or deaf and can cause other cancers to develop...Its no wonder the parents wanted to get the best treatment for their child ( as any parent would ). The doctor was not having that though and told them they could not remove him and if they tried he would issue an International Alert....which they did !!!

Disgusting just like Big Brother !!!

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by Julchen on 02.09.14 13:43

Cameron of all people should step in.
NOW!
Or even Gordon Brown.
If there are two politicians who know what these poor people must be going through, it's them.

I don't expect and don't want Brown to re-appear.
But Cameron should do something.
Actually, he is doing something, i.e. be sitting on the fence....
at least he's not sitting on the beach as was with other important issues.

NHS at its best.

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by sar on 02.09.14 15:15

Can the ward of court status conferred on Ashya King shed any light on WOC status for MM?  Thanks

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EAW Withdrawn

Post by PeterMac on 02.09.14 16:43

It is being reported that the CPS are seeking to 'withdraw' the arrest warrant.
Quite what the ramifications are for
Police
CPS,
Magistrates,
Spainish police
Spanish legal system
Spanish prison system

I am not quite clear.
WHO PAYS THE COMPENSATION for the false arrest and imprisonment, harassment, distress, and alarm, not just to the parents, but to all the sublings as well.

What a ghastly mess.

(perhaps they could just tippex the name and change it to one which they should have issued many years ago)

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by Newintown on 02.09.14 16:59

I was thinking this morning what if Ashya had taken a turn for the worse and had died, he would have died alone in a strange hospital bed with none of his family around him and his parents in prison, for what????

I can't comprehend the thought processes of people in charge who took these decisions, they need sacking as they are totally NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE.

What an utter disgrace for the police, NHS, and anyone else involved.

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by Markus 2 on 02.09.14 19:17

I wonder how many cases in the past have been like this and kept secret from the public . Child snatching and we don't know how many of those children were ill, secret courts, all very distressing for the families involved. I only hope that now this has come to light that there will be others willing to stand and fight for other victims  snatched by the Police state..

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by Markus 2 on 02.09.14 20:27

They will have the vast organization of Jehovah Witnesses behind them, alas not so lucky the majority of them  in similar situations...

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by plebgate on 03.09.14 11:32

@joyce1938 wrote:it all seems so unjust . People from Europe can come here and gain the treatement they need ?free too . Africa seems to be able to do it too.   Why cant we choose another country that may have better treatement ,especially as the father was trying to PAY  for it  . after watching father on u tube yesterday ,the reason the hospital was using ,was mainly the feeding device ,batteries would soon run out and all sorts of reasons . Then its shown on video ,there was no problem with said.. machine.   my heart aches for family ,and poor parents that are going to be back here ,and child still in spain ,no matter how short a time they are separated ,its too long . joyce1938
Well said joyce.

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by aquila on 03.09.14 11:42

Oh gawd, I'm sticking my neck out here. I don't believe all is at is seems on either side. I didn't believe it when it hit the headlines and I don't believe it now. There is far more to this than meets the eye imo.

This doesn't alter my concern for a very sick child who I pray for.

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by Garrincha on 03.09.14 14:26

Hello Aquila - I'll stick my neck out with you - there is more to be told but based on the little we know for sure right now, IMO the police had no option other than to act as they did until the boy was found

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by j.rob on 03.09.14 14:56

I wonder what kind of reputation the paediatric oncology department at Southampton Hospital has? What is the track record and backgrounds of the oncologists/treating physicians who apparently were behind a decision to take out emergency protection orders on this child?

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by j.rob on 03.09.14 15:08

This case is somewhat reminiscent of the megalomania displayed, imo, by paediatricians Dr Meadows and Dr Southall who, in several cases at least (the tragic case of lawyer Sally Clarke, for instance) liked to slap 'Munchausen by Proxy' labels on the parents (but especially mothers) of children who, in some cases, had diseases that were difficult to diagnose or difficult to treat. Or even, it is alleged by some, of babies or children who had been harmed by medical treatment or who had been misdiagnosed. Thank God they are no longer the darlings of the Crown Prosecution Service. No doubt they would be popping  up in this case too, slapping a Munchhausen's by Proxy label on the parents who dared to challenge their authority. 

One of my siblings would be dead if my parents hadn't taken him abroad for medical treatment as a child.

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by PeterMac on 03.09.14 15:20

@Newintown wrote:I was thinking this morning what if Ashya had taken a turn for the worse and had died, he would have died alone in a strange hospital bed with none of his family around him and his parents in prison, for what????
I can't comprehend the thought processes of people in charge who took these decisions, they need sacking as they are totally NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE.
What an utter disgrace for the police, NHS, and anyone else involved.

But what if he had died in the car during the trip to Spain ? Would you say the same about the parents and their decision ?

The sad fact is that his condition is terminal. They have already taken a lump of his brain out and he has clearly lost his sight, hearing and speech, as well as being practically paralysed.
No amount of Therapies or scans are ever going to bring that back.
The idea of Treatment always implies that he will be well again and up and about in a few months. He won't. He is going to die. Very probably within a few months.
Someone may be able to slow down what remains of the tumour, to allow him a few more weeks of months of what we strangely call "life", though the words "mere existence" might be more appropriate, but a glioma, by its very definition is impossible to remove totally. It is not a single "blob", but a diffused mass.

My guess is that this was explained by the oncologists, who have years and hundreds of cases of experience, but the parents for reasons we all understand were not prepared to let it happen, and believed that things they found on the internet were somehow going to be the Magic Bullet.
One does not blame them for this, and they have our deepest sympathy.

And, yes, it may well come down to decisions on rationing of resources.
If you have 100,000 pounds in your oncology budget are you going to spend it desperately keeping 'alive' a small child, blind, deaf, immobile, without speech, for one month longer.
or are you going to spend it on hundreds of operations on breast and testicular and bowel cancers, where the mass CAN be removed, the prognosis of post-op survival is measured in decades, and the quality of life of the patient is not affected, except positively.

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by cloak'ndagger on 03.09.14 15:41

This was on facebook:
"My apologies to the Admins if they feel this post is out of place, but I feel it's important for those families in Scotland who may have a child in hospital now or in the future.

Anyone with a child under the age of 18 here is, from 2016, or sooner, subject to the Named Person aspect of the GIRFEC legislation. Should they feel the need to do what the Kings did, to remove their child from hospital and seek better treatment, they could find themselves in an even worse situation.

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by j.rob on 03.09.14 15:55

@PeterMac wrote:
@Newintown wrote:I was thinking this morning what if Ashya had taken a turn for the worse and had died, he would have died alone in a strange hospital bed with none of his family around him and his parents in prison, for what????
I can't comprehend the thought processes of people in charge who took these decisions, they need sacking as they are totally NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE.
What an utter disgrace for the police, NHS, and anyone else involved.

But what if he had died in the car during the trip to Spain ?  Would you say the same about the parents and their decision ?

The sad fact is that his condition is terminal. They have already taken a lump of his brain out and he has clearly lost his sight, hearing and speech, as well as being practically paralysed.
No amount of Therapies or scans are ever going to bring that back.
The idea of Treatment always implies that he will be well again and up and about in a few months.  He won't.  He is going to die. Very probably within a few months.
Someone may be able to slow down what remains of the tumour, to allow him a few more weeks of months of what we strangely call "life", though the words "mere existence" might be more appropriate, but a glioma, by its very definition is impossible to remove totally. It is not a single "blob", but a diffused mass.

My guess is that this was explained by the oncologists, who have years and hundreds of cases of experience,  but the parents for reasons we all understand were not prepared to let it happen, and believed that things they found on the internet were somehow going to be the Magic Bullet.
One does not blame them for this, and they have our deepest sympathy.

And, yes, it may well come down to decisions on rationing of resources.
If you have 100,000 pounds in your oncology budget are you going to spend it desperately keeping 'alive' a small child, blind, deaf, immobile, without speech, for one month longer.
or are you going to spend it on hundreds of operations on breast and testicular and bowel cancers, where the mass CAN be removed, the prognosis of post-op survival is measured in decades, and the quality of life of the patient is not affected, except positively.


Petermac, I haven't looked closely at this particular case. But I can assure you that my sibling  - with a supposedly 'uncurable and unoperable' rapidly growing brain tumour is alive and 100% well, fit, active and happy 40 years after my parents were told by the top UK medic in this field that they should: "let him die and have lots of other children."

That was his advice, which, thankfully my parents refused to accept!

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by j.rob on 03.09.14 17:21

Mr King is understood to have contacted the Proton Therapy Centre on August 20 about getting the treatment for Ashya who has a brain tumour known as a medulloblastoma.
Ms Tatounova said the centre would be happy to treat Ashya but would first need the necessary medical documentation from doctors in Spain or Britain.
The treatment typically costs £60,000 pounds to £65,000 for children.
She added: "Yesterday Naveed, Ashya's brother, sent us information to contact the Spanish doctors and hospital and that they are willing to send us the MRIs and the latest scans which we have not unfortunately received yet.
"Regarding Ashya's tumour, the medulloblastoma, proton therapy is a suitable treatment for children.
"It allows clinicians to destroy only what they need to and it is safer and gentler than conventional radiotherapy.
"It's targeted treatment so it doesn't irradiate critical organs and tissues that don't need it.
"It is undoubtedly the treatment of the future and for many tumours like this it is the treatment of today."
Ms Tatounova said the centre was the most advanced in Europe and offers treatment much cheaper than in the USA.
She said children from more than 22 countries had been treated at the centre but, as yet, none had been referred by the NHS.
She added: "The most important thing is to get Ashya back to his parents and get the most gentle and proper treatment for him to not only survive but have a quality life after treatment."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11069871/Ashya-Kings-doctors-signal-U-turn-over-proton-therapy.html

The part that jumps out to me is that "children from 22 countries had been treated at the centre but, as yet, none had been referred by the NHS."

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by bobbin on 03.09.14 18:29

@j.rob wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Newintown wrote:I was thinking this morning what if Ashya had taken a turn for the worse and had died, he would have died alone in a strange hospital bed with none of his family around him and his parents in prison, for what????
I can't comprehend the thought processes of people in charge who took these decisions, they need sacking as they are totally NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE.
What an utter disgrace for the police, NHS, and anyone else involved.

But what if he had died in the car during the trip to Spain ?  Would you say the same about the parents and their decision ?

The sad fact is that his condition is terminal. They have already taken a lump of his brain out and he has clearly lost his sight, hearing and speech, as well as being practically paralysed.
No amount of Therapies or scans are ever going to bring that back.
The idea of Treatment always implies that he will be well again and up and about in a few months.  He won't.  He is going to die. Very probably within a few months.
Someone may be able to slow down what remains of the tumour, to allow him a few more weeks of months of what we strangely call "life", though the words "mere existence" might be more appropriate, but a glioma, by its very definition is impossible to remove totally. It is not a single "blob", but a diffused mass.

My guess is that this was explained by the oncologists, who have years and hundreds of cases of experience,  but the parents for reasons we all understand were not prepared to let it happen, and believed that things they found on the internet were somehow going to be the Magic Bullet.
One does not blame them for this, and they have our deepest sympathy.

And, yes, it may well come down to decisions on rationing of resources.
If you have 100,000 pounds in your oncology budget are you going to spend it desperately keeping 'alive' a small child, blind, deaf, immobile, without speech, for one month longer.
or are you going to spend it on hundreds of operations on breast and testicular and bowel cancers, where the mass CAN be removed, the prognosis of post-op survival is measured in decades, and the quality of life of the patient is not affected, except positively.


Petermac, I haven't looked closely at this particular case. But I can assure you that my sibling  - with a supposedly 'uncurable and unoperable' rapidly growing brain tumour is alive and 100% well, fit, active and happy 40 years after my parents were told by the top UK medic in this field that they should: "let him die and have lots of other children."

That was his advice, which, thankfully my parents refused to accept!
j.rob, thank you for your contribution with which I wholeheartedly agree.

PeterMac, I respect you very greatly but we have differed in the past on orthodox medical treatments versus or alongside alternative treatments.

I would be most grateful if you would just simply state that your above views are your opinion only and that they are NOT fact.

I do not intend to make a running battle out of this, but there are alternative treatments that are far more successful than conventional medical ones.

Just look at PubMed articles, the 'gold standard' for scientific reviews and investigate for instance turmeric/ curcumin, cannabis oil, etc. etc. You will be amazed how the 'alternative/ herbal' therapies are now being acknowledged and quoted as being MORE efficacious and without side effects than the formerly used conventional medical treatments.

Please do not think that I am trying to force you to change your views. I know already that your views are fixed in stone on this issue, but please also do not suggest that your view of medicine is the ONLY one that is 'true', for it certainly is not.

Although I differ with you on this one subject I do still hold the greatest respect for all of the other wealth of information and knowledge which you have brought to this forum. Your police background provides you with a most valid speciality.

Non conventional / alternative therapies have existed for the eons of time since the world began and the current medical paradygm of doctors in white coats, pharmaceutical drugs (the Greek word 'Pharma' means Poison) has been around in parts of the world for a mere 60 years now.

Animals and tribes alike have managed very well to get to the 20th century, eating, growing, reproducing, to the extent that we must accept that all of this is possible without the white coats, as indeed it has demonstrated since humans started to evolve some 5 million years ago.

I now pray that Ashya gets treatment and advice that will help him to know the life that j.rob's parents enabled his/her sibling to have.

The Southampton General Hospital has been criticised in reports over the past months for inadequacies and the treatment offered to Ashya's parents was of chemotherapy which was stated would cause great harm, pain and result in his death.

No parent in such a position should be castigated for trying any and every way of finding a better outcome than the one on offer.

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by cloak'ndagger on 03.09.14 19:20

parapono wrote:Thanks bobbin agreed
Agreed. As a parent I would do anything for my child if there was any hope it may prolong or improve his/her quality if life

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by j.rob on 03.09.14 19:34

While I do not necessarily disagree that 'alternatives' to mainstream medical treatment might be as effective, or more so, in some cases, I do not get the impression that these parents are chasing after some kind of 'miracle' alternative 'cure'.

It seems to me that they have identified a place that is perhaps at the cutting edge of treatment and believe it will offer the best chance of a good outcome. The proton treatment doesn't sound especially 'alternative'.  Perhaps on a risk/benefit ratio it simply offers (appropriate) treatment with fewer negative side-effects (always a tricky balancing act with any treatment I imagine). 

When my parents elected to ignore the top UK honcho's advice with regard to treatment (or not) of my sibling's brain tumour (at a similar age, incidentally) they were certainly not chasing after rainbows. But, rather like these parents, they were able, even in pre-internet days (one of my parents is a doctor) to seek out a country (and centre) where the knowledge and expertise was higher than it was in the UK at the time. And they were able to find a doctor who was prepared to perform the incredibly risky operation which had to be done. Which stood a 50% chance of death on the operating table. (Still, better than the 100% risk of death without any operation.)

Apparently the treatment cost my parents around £2,000. A great saving - not only to the NHS but also to my family!

The surgeon who performed the operation looked at all the notes and results from the UK and threw them in all in the bin. He said that the UK treatment had been useless and my sibling would be dead in a month's time. There was only one other place in the world that he would recommend for this treatment at that time, and that was in the States. So my parents elected for him. 

Good decision!

(This is not meant to be a UK doctor-bashing post, I simply want to point out that knowledge is constantly evolving and what is considered good practice in one place might not be in another. Experts will have differing opinions on treatment.)

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by PeterMac on 03.09.14 19:37

I do not think the parents are in any doubt about the prognosis
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ashya-kings-father-says-doctors-in-uk-were-going-to-turn-him-into-vegetable-9708157.html
In a short press conference this morning in Seville, Mr King said: “Hopefully now we can see our son, we can be together and show love to him, because without that there is no purpose to life.
“We just want to help my son get through this bad time, because he hasn't got too many months to live.

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by bobbin on 03.09.14 20:18

@PeterMac wrote:I do not think the parents are in any doubt about the prognosis
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ashya-kings-father-says-doctors-in-uk-were-going-to-turn-him-into-vegetable-9708157.html
In a short press conference this morning in Seville, Mr King said: “Hopefully now we can see our son, we can be together and show love to him, because without that there is no purpose to life.
“We just want to help my son get through this bad time, because he hasn't got too many months to live.
 
I just went to PubMed and typed in ‘brain tumours and curcumin’.
Here are a few of the latest samples. There is a huge list, and turmeric/curcumin is just one of very many herbs/foods that have anti-cancer properties and are now taking a rightful place in treatments.
Just brushing over the middle sections of the articles, the introductions and conclusions are what matter.
N.B. ‘Apoptosis’ means ‘cell death’ as in destruction of tumour cell
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22739211
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22842701
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24165291
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24142484
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23891772
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22944718
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22484149
 I just hope the parents get a chance to discover some of the advanced information available on the internet (to anyone who has the eyes to go looking and find) and which is clearly NOT falling within the regular oncology doctor's repertoire or this would have been offered as a treatment instead of the destructive radiation therapy suggested.

ETA
It is thought that turmeric is difficult to administer to brain cells and so nano technology is being trialled for delivery of 'drugs' treatments.
Turmeric however does cross the blood brain barrier, and is more available to the cells if it is cooked in an oil base rather than served up raw, steamed or boiled.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/08/curcumin-vs-drugs-for-parkinsons.aspx
Turmeric
Story at-a-glance

  • Curcumin crosses the blood-brain barrier and exhibits potent neuroprotective properties, leading researchers to investigate it as a possible drug alternative in the treatment of neurodegenerative disorders such as Parkinson’s disease
  • Unlike Parkinson’s drugs, curcumin, a polyphenol identified as the primary active component of the spice turmeric, it reduces inflammation and oxidative damage in the brain
  • Curcumin has also shown promise for preventing other brain disorders, including dementia, Huntington’s disease and Alzheimer’s disease
  • Parkinson’s disease is related to certain lifestyle factors, including exposure to pesticides, paint and solvents, and vitamin D deficiency; animal-based omega-3 fats are also a powerful defense against Parkinson's 


ETA

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22211691 PubMed article showing turmeric crosses the blood brain barrier and is being investigated as an improved treatment for Parkinsons Disease

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Re: MEDICAL ABUSE OF POWER in the case of 5-year-old ASHYA KING - An absolutely MUST WATCH 10-minute video made by the father last night in Malaga

Post by Nina on 03.09.14 20:51

I was directed to Turmeric/Curcumin about 18 months ago through a forum attached to this charity that I help to moderate https://www.beatingbowelcancer.org/

We have many members, myself included who are fighting this damned disease who now take turmeric on a daily basis. Cancer cells hate the stuff. I love it and in a few moments will be eating supper where it is included.

When you have a health battle, particularly cancer, then many will look further than cut, burn and poison.

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