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The slamming door

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The slamming door

Post by garfy on 26.08.14 19:11

This has always bothered me .......because i could never understand how it bothered k mcc that it was not how she left it when they left the apartment ....when others had checked before she did.....[unless there had been no other checks]

The door slammed shut when she closed it to a certain angle...shown on the link below or 25 mins into it.

http://www.richplanet.net/starship_main.php?ref=185&part=1

If that was the case ...why didn't it slam shut when she entered the apartment ......

1 have tested this....when by back door is open my kitchen door stays open ....if the font door opens ...the kitchen door slams shut....no matter what angle at ...[wide open or slightly

but it stays open ...no matter how strong the breeze or wind ...if the front door is shut

So why did this not happen as she entered.....plus the wind was not reported as stron that night [records from faro airport] ....

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Re: The slamming door

Post by The Rooster on 26.08.14 19:21

Good observation. It's another McCann lie of course. I hope it comes back and bites them big time.

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Re: The slamming door

Post by statsman on 26.08.14 19:34

I posted this already but I think it's worth repeating on this thread.

Have a look at the following link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYPnn9xQLW0&index=24&list=PL4lhsa5meT4BomwbyDm65NzT23FGk2n5q

It comes from a much watched series called Afterlife which showed on ITV in 2005 - 2006.

IMO it's eerily similar to Mrs' description of the open window, the whooshing curtains and the slamming door.

For good measure, there is also a fatality resulting from a fall at another window.

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Re: The slamming door

Post by garfy on 26.08.14 19:53

@statsman wrote:I posted this already but I think it's worth repeating on this thread.

Have a look at the following link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYPnn9xQLW0&index=24&list=PL4lhsa5meT4BomwbyDm65NzT23FGk2n5q

It comes from a much watched series called Afterlife which showed on ITV in 2005 - 2006.

IMO it's eerily similar to Mrs' description of the open window, the whooshing curtains and the slamming door.

For good measure, there is also a fatality resulting from a fall at another window.

seems the link has been blocked

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Re: The slamming door

Post by garfy on 26.08.14 19:55

@The Rooster wrote:Good observation. It's another McCann lie of course. I hope it comes back and bites them big time.

doubt it will rooster.....................how do they get away with the blatant lies....

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Re: The slamming door

Post by statsman on 26.08.14 21:10

Garfy,

Sorry about the link being blocked. It certainly worked until a few weeks ago.

I'm  probably being too paranoid in thinking that me putting the link up here had anything to do with it.

Or am I? nah

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Re: The slamming door

Post by The Rooster on 26.08.14 22:12

I truly believe that in the end they won't get away their lies and that justice will prevail. Although I just don't understand why the case hasn't been cracked yet.

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Re: The slamming door

Post by Hicks on 26.08.14 22:23

@The Rooster wrote:I truly believe that in the end they won't get away their lies and that justice will prevail. Although I just don't understand why the case hasn't been cracked yet.
I feel that justice will only be served if, or when, the protection of the' invisible person/s' becomes no longer necessary. The McCann's will then be thrown to the wolves. Imo.

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Re: The slamming door

Post by HelenMeg on 26.08.14 22:26

@Hicks wrote:
@The Rooster wrote:I truly believe that in the end they won't get away their lies and that justice will prevail. Although I just don't understand why the case hasn't been cracked yet.
I feel that justice will only be served if, or when, the protection of the' invisible person/s' becomes no longer necessary. The McCann's will then be thrown to the wolves. Imo.
The invisible person / s has a lot to answer for

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Re: The slamming door

Post by aquila on 26.08.14 22:29

@HelenMeg wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
@The Rooster wrote:I truly believe that in the end they won't get away their lies and that justice will prevail. Although I just don't understand why the case hasn't been cracked yet.
I feel that justice will only be served if, or when, the protection of the' invisible person/s' becomes no longer necessary. The McCann's will then be thrown to the wolves. Imo.
The invisible person / s has a lot to answer for
I believe the invisible folk are British.

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Re: The slamming door

Post by PeterMac on 26.08.14 22:49

@garfy wrote:This has always bothered me .......because i could never understand how it bothered k mcc that it was not how she left it when they left the apartment ....when others had checked before she did.....[unless there had been no other checks]
The door slammed shut when she closed it to a certain angle...shown on the link below or 25 mins into it.
If that was the case ...why didn't it slam shut when she entered the apartment ......
1 have tested this....when by back door is open my kitchen door stays open ....if the font door opens ...the kitchen door slams shut....no matter what angle at ...[wide open or slightly
but it stays open ...no matter how strong the breeze or wind ...if the front door is shut
So why did this not happen as she entered.....plus the wind was not reported as stron that night [records from faro airport] ....

We examine Kate's claim that the door slammed, and when she went in the curtains “Whooshed” open.
In 2008 Kate McCann gave an interview in which she described graphically what happened when she entered the apartment for her check, and discovered Madeleine to be missing.

“I did my check about ten o’clock and went in through the sliding patio doors, and I just stood actually, and I thought, uh, all quiet. And to be honest, I might have been tempted to turn round then, but I just noticed that the door, the bedroom door where the three children were sleeping, was open much further than we’d left it.
I went to close it to about here, and then as I got to here, it suddenly . . . slammed, and as I opened it, it was then, that I just thought I’ll just look at the children.
I see Sean and Amelie in the cot . . . .
I was looking at Madeleine’s bed which is here, and it was dark and I was looking and I was thinking is that, is that Madeleine or is that the bedding and I couldn't quite make her out, and it sounds really stupid now, but at the time I was just thinking I didn’t want to put the light on because I didn't want to wake them,  and literally as I went back in, the curtains of the bedroom which were drawn, [demonstrates with both forearms together]  that were closed, “wheesh’  like a gust of wind kind of blew them open.
And cuddle cat was still there, and the pink blanket was still there. I knew straight away that, err, she’d been . . . taken, yer know.”  
[1]

We notice a number of significant points in this interview.
• We are told that the door was open “further than we had left it”, but on the video it is clear and demonstrated that this did not mean fully open.
• We are told that the curtains were fully closed, and this is demonstrated on the video by the forearms being held vertically in front of the body and together
• We are told that the curtains blew into the room.

There are problems with this version of events.
If the curtains had blown up in the manner described they would have fallen back onto the bed, and have been lying across the bedclothes and across the chair
The photos taken by the PJ show clearly that the curtains are hanging down, and held firmly,  one trapped down the side of the bed against the wall, and the other behind the wicker chair.  The folds in each curtain are clearly flattened against the wall by the furniture.
The bed is unmade.  It is alleged that Kate had slept in this bed the night before.
The photos show the windows closed.  They are of the type that lock together automatically when closed, and require a finger inserted into the black mechanism in the centre to release the catch.  They also show the shutters in the almost closed position
* [2]

And the photos also show the curtains half closed, the left curtain slightly more closed than the right one.
However,
From Kate’s police statement, dated 4th May we learn,
“At around 10pm, the witness came to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed, but unlocked, as already said, and immediately noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.”   [4]

Gerry’s statement of 4th May does contain hearsay evidence, but as husband and wife they have obviously spoken between themselves, and the statement can be taken at face value.
“At 10pm, his wife Kate went to check on the children. She went into the apartment through the door using her key and saw right away that the children’s bedroom door was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains drawn open. The side door that opens into the living room, which as said earlier, was never locked, was closed.”    [5]

In Gerry’s 10th May statement we find
“The deponent ran into the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open to one side, the shutters almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE’s bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cots. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scenario that she found when she entered the apartment.
Then he closed the shutters, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside. “   [6]
Kate made the first half of a statement on 6th September, but it was adjourned late at night, to be resumed the following day.  It was at this point that the events of late evening of 3rd May were about to to be discussed.

The following day Kate immediately exercised her right to remain silent as arguida and said nothing more of evidential interest.  The more detailed analysis of her story was therefore never undertaken.
So
• in the original statements the curtains were drawn back, or fully open.
• in the police photos they are half drawn.
• In the subsequent explanation they are fully closed

In addition the windows are sliding, so only one half can be open, that pane moving in front of the other.   A gust of wind would therefore disturb only one curtain.
But now let us examine the story around the children’s bedroom door.
In her police statement of 4th May, which was then confirmed, albeit in hearsay form in both of Gerry’s statements, she says, explicitly, “. . .the children’s bedroom door was completely open”.  The same form of words is used by Gerry. “the door was completely open”. and he clarifies that this is what he was told by Kate.
But months later the story of the slamming door, and the door left open a bit more than we had left it, is told to journalists as in the video [q.v.], and it is this version which appears in the book.
p. 71 “Then I noticed that the door to the children’s bedroom was open quite wide, not how we had left it. At first I assumed that Matt must have moved it.  I walked over and gently began to pull it to. Suddenly it slammed shut, as if caught by a draught.”  [7]
Leaving aside for a moment the clear indication in that passage, and in the video, [see transcript]  that Kate had no intention of looking in at the children, this is clearly at odds with all the police statements so far given, which emphasise and repeat that the door was “completely open”

What are the possible ways of understanding this paradox ?

The first option is that Kate immediately started rearranging the room, but in this case did not make the bed, which was still unmade from the previous night.
It is of interest to note that she had not even pulled the bed straight when she got up, or when she made Madeleine's bed, which is neat and tidy in the photos,  with the corner neatly turned down, giving at least the appearance that no one had slept in it.    [8]

But she must have tucked the curtains back down the crack between the bed and the wall, certainly having to move the bed out to do so, and made sure they were hanging properly, before pushing it back against the wall before the police arrived.
She must also have done this before returning to the Tapas bar to give the alert,  as none of the friends mention any such activity.  
Again she must also have partially closed the curtains, since both statements insist that the curtains were “open”, “drawn open” or “drawn back”. and in the photos they are not.

The second option is that the curtains did not "whoosh".
And if the curtains did not "Whoosh" then the door did not slam.

It is important to remember that it was not reported in either of Gerry’s statements, nor in Kate’s statement that the curtains blew open or that the door slammed.  This detail was only reported by Kate to journalists several months later.

The weather that night was mild, with a light breeze,.  In Faro it was recorded as reaching only Force 3.  At 10pm only 14.4kph. This is the bottom end of Force 3. [9]
Beaufort Force 3   Gentle breeze   12–19 km/h (3–5 m/s)
Leaves and small twigs constantly moving, light flags extended.   [10]
Might that be enough to slam a door ?   Or to whoosh a curtain trapped behind a bed ?

Neither Kate nor Gerry mentions closing the window.  
In her statement Kate does not mention Gerry’s closing and opening the shutters.

In view of the evidence of the above, one is surely entitled to question the “official account” or indeed any of them, in that they seem unsupported by evidence.
References

1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw&feature=player_embedded
See 1:15 onwards
2 http://mccannfiles.com/id155.html
3 http://mccannfiles.com/id155.html
4 Witness statement of Kate Marie Healy, 4th May 2007,
Processos Vol I, pages 58-65
http://mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta4
5  Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, 4th May 2007,
Processos Vol I, pages 34 - 41
http://mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta1
6 Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, 10th May 2007.  
Processos Vol I, pages 891-903
http://mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta3
7 ‘”madeleine’”, Kate McCann, Random Press, 2011, at p. 71
8 http://mccannfiles.com/id155.html
9 http://www.wunderground.com
10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale

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Re: The slamming door

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 26.08.14 22:51

@aquila wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
@The Rooster wrote:I truly believe that in the end they won't get away their lies and that justice will prevail. Although I just don't understand why the case hasn't been cracked yet.
I feel that justice will only be served if, or when, the protection of the' invisible person/s' becomes no longer necessary. The McCann's will then be thrown to the wolves. Imo.
The invisible person / s has a lot to answer for
I believe the invisible folk are British.
Andy Redwood bringing in the CPS when he took over the case confirms they are. If they (the suspects) were non British, the CPS would have no interest or jurisdiction whatsoever. OG would simply be gathering info for someone else to deal with.

Furthermore, and on the subject of a potential whitewash.........given the recently announced investigations into the conduct of some high profile cops (Sir Peter Fahy of Manchester for instance), and historical cover ups such as Hillsborough coming out in the wash, would AR, as suggested whitewasher in chief, risk a knock at his door own during his retirement ?  I don't think so, particularly when Portugal would no doubt release the new files.

IMO of course.

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Re: The slamming door

Post by Hicks on 26.08.14 22:55

@aquila wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
@The Rooster wrote:I truly believe that in the end they won't get away their lies and that justice will prevail. Although I just don't understand why the case hasn't been cracked yet.
I feel that justice will only be served if, or when, the protection of the' invisible person/s' becomes no longer necessary. The McCann's will then be thrown to the wolves. Imo.
The invisible person / s has a lot to answer for
I believe the invisible folk are British.
Me too.
I guess we would have a bit of a shock at exactly how many 'high profile' people had/have villas in Portugal, perhaps some very near PDL. The McCann's were already known to millionaire John Geraghty. Then there's the invite to Clement Freud's villa....... .who else did they know ?
In a few witness statements that I have read recently there are references to an older couple who play tennis with the McCann's just after Madeleine's disappearance. Others tell of a grey haired man in his early fifties , there on the night within the group, or more importantly with GM. 
Perhaps along with the mystery person, anyone who was anyone fled the scene asap. I'm thinking Margaret Hodges nephew for one.

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Re: The slamming door

Post by aquila on 26.08.14 23:01

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@Hicks wrote:
@The Rooster wrote:I truly believe that in the end they won't get away their lies and that justice will prevail. Although I just don't understand why the case hasn't been cracked yet.
I feel that justice will only be served if, or when, the protection of the' invisible person/s' becomes no longer necessary. The McCann's will then be thrown to the wolves. Imo.
The invisible person / s has a lot to answer for
I believe the invisible folk are British.
Andy Redwood bringing in the CPS when he took over the case confirms they are. If they (the suspects) were non British, the CPS would have no interest or jurisdiction whatsoever. OG would simply be gathering info for someone else to deal with.

Furthermore, and on the subject of a potential whitewash.........given the recently announced investigations into the conduct of some high profile cops (Sir Peter Fahy of Manchester for instance), and historical cover ups such as Hillsborough coming out in the wash, would AR, as suggested whitewasher in chief, risk a knock at his door own during his retirement ?  I don't think so, particularly when Portugal would no doubt release the new files.

IMO of course.
The Portuguese authorities only released a percentage of the files in the first instance.

Does SY and the CPS going to Portugal make you feel confident this will happen again?

What if SY and the CPS just for argument's sake (sticking out a little theory here) say they are looking at potential prosecution in UK and publishing files would be detrimental to that investigation?

This is a whitewash.in front of your very eyes.

Just my opinion of course and I will go sweep the steps of SY's building if they crack this case.

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Re: The slamming door

Post by worriedmum on 26.08.14 23:07

Thank you for your very detailed analysis, PeterMac. I hadn't realised just how many differences and changes there are in the parents' versions of how the room appeared.  

It struck me , reading these versions side by side, that Kate never assumed that Madeleine may have been sleeping in the bed under the window. The sheets are far more rumpled than the bed nearer the door.  If it was difficult to distinguish a child's shape on the bed nearest the open door and whatever light source there was from it, surely the bed by the window would have been even darker and the rumpled sheets more suggestive of a sleeping child?

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Re: The slamming door

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 26.08.14 23:16

Fair point Aquila !

I dont see why Portugal would allow themselves to be made to look stupid again after all the criticism by UK MSM. The original release of the files is very damming to TM, so I cant see the files the PJ held back, helping them, or intentionally being used to trash a prosecution

We are of course in the dark as to what new evidence is, or what line of enquiry the joint investigation is following, but if it is a whitewash then it would appear to be a massive own goal. Just my opinion, and so I keep the faith.

P.S. You do the steps and I'll dust and hoover !

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Re: The slamming door

Post by Brian Griffin on 27.08.14 0:39

@The Rooster wrote:I truly believe that in the end they won't get away their lies and that justice will prevail. Although I just don't understand why the case hasn't been cracked yet.
It has been cracked! Amaral cracked it 7 years ago. In my opinion.

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Re: The slamming door

Post by AndyB on 27.08.14 7:50

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:We are of course in the dark as to what new evidence is, or what line of enquiry the joint investigation is following
There is no new evidence (imo) and there is no joint investigation (fact)

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Re: The slamming door

Post by Guest on 27.08.14 8:37

Wouldn't it be interesting to learn about the state of affairs in the new PJ investigation?

Does anyone have an inkling when it could finish?

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Re: The slamming door

Post by The Rooster on 27.08.14 8:48

The dogs blew the case wide open. Amaral could have gone on to crack the case and make arrests but didnt. The McCanns have been extremely lucky to have been allowed to leave Portugal. I suspect EU law and some clever dime dancing by the McCann's solicitor's and some empty promises from them allowed the runner.  They ran because they clearly knew they were in deep trouble.  Their return to the UK created the opportunity of ghosting between two jurisdictions and the confusion and lies model could be ramped up.

A bit of money, a spokesman, newspapers kicking up negative press about the Portugese police, more lies and the McCanns could further pervert the truth of events on 3rd May 2007.  The lies are as clear as day to all and sundry including the police in both countries. We are none of us completely stupid; their complicity is as plain as the long noses on their faces.  They have effectively created a smokescreen using lies that will ultimately bring their downfall. This has in the absence of a body made the whole process of securing arrests and convictions all the more difficult. The crime was committed in Portugal and needs to be tried in Portugal. Much of the ground work and background policing need to be done in the UK however, after all the McCanns were only in Portugal for 5 months and the important tapas 7 witnesses for less  time. Both police forces will need to work together to crack the case lest the slippery legal agents find a loophole to spring their clients.

Forgetting the lies told in the UK press and television and looking at the hard facts of what is going on...
2 re-opened investigations
Millions £'s spent from tax payers coffers
CPS visiting Portugal
British Police active in Portugal
McCanns looking under extreme pressure
Silence from the McCann disinformation machine

I am convinced the continued lies which started with the doors and shutters will bring their downfall and ultimate convictions. Then we can all get back to business as usual!

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Re: The slamming door

Post by BlueBag on 27.08.14 9:15

Operation Grange need to go and ask Kate "why did you originally say the curtains were open".

Bog standard policing.

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