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THE McCANNS, THE PUBLIC'S JUSTIFIABLE ANGER

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Re: THE McCANNS, THE PUBLIC'S JUSTIFIABLE ANGER

Post by twinkle on 21.05.10 22:50

@Autumn wrote:
@twinkle wrote:
@pudsgirl wrote:
@twinkle wrote:
@Autumn wrote:
@twinkle wrote:
@Judge Mental wrote:twinkle wrote ................. 'Certainly a week of doing what the McCanns did would not have brought any prosecution in this country however people feel about it.

******************************************************************************

Perhaps we should run this by many of the people whose children are currently on the at-risk register because their parents were late on more than one occasion in collecting their children from school. Or even conduct a series of random interviews with some residents of the nation's housing estates who know only too well what happens when you leave your children alone to sit with a neighbour or go for a night out. There appears to be a two-tiered system when dishing out prosecutions in the UK. Whereas Portugal has well-defined laws.

Sorry your post is misleading and ridiculous. I work with many children who should be on the at risk register who aren't, the system is flawed sadly.........many children live in horrendous conditions who aren't recieving the help that they need.

I would be interested in finding out where you get your information from regarding the underlined part of your post, any statistics to go with them.
Hopefully it isn't from sensationalist tabloid rags who consistantly fail to report on the real issues.

Oh come off it Twinkle. You know perfectly well that the McCanns, had they lived on a sink estate, would most certainly have been prosecuted for neglecting their very young children. Yes the stystem is flawed but, nonetheless, people from poor backgrounds have been given custodial sentences for doing as the McCanns did.


No I won't come off it. I work with the above mentioned kids that come off the "sink estate" many who are living in dire situations, whose parents aren't prosecuted for leaving their kids, who aren't prosecuted for not feeding them,who aren't prosecuted for not getting them to school, who aren't prosecuted for letting them wander the streets till all hours.
There are thousands of invisible children out there who are being subject to neglect and pyschological damage daily, whose parents aren't prosecuted. Believe me I'm not quoting from some shock value tabloid here, I am speaking from my knowledge of working with these children everyday.
Pity some people whose passion is so strong to help vunerable children don't invest some of their time actually doing something positive by maybe working with agencies involved in this instead of focussing on one set of parents they believe are neglectful...........when the reality is there are many who are, and many, many children out there who do need help everyday.

But by your logic there doesn't seem to be much point helping these kids then if the system is failing and parents don't get prosecuted.

You say "it's a pity some people don't get involved...." but we can't change the system, we can't take the children away to safe houses, we can't interfere without being prosecuted ourselves, so the answer must be to not care about child abuse/neglect, to turn a blind eye as the system does? Or maybe the answer is to be pro-active like TB, make a lot of noise, and hope someone will listen and change the system? Someone has to make a noise for these kids which is what TB and his MF members are doing. If Madeleine's case isn't addressed and resolved then there will be other Madeleine's and one Madeleine is one too many.

What are these agencies you talk about? Because they don't seem to be doing a great job when you see the amount of neglected and abused kids in this world. What on earth can be done to help them when the system is so flawed that they can't help these kids satifactorily themselves? How will more people working in these agencies help when it would seem they are not much more than toothless dogs and children continue to be abused in spite of these agencies that are supposed to be there to protect them?


You are entitled to your opinion but I suggest you do a little research before you box the whole thing off as a bad job. There is always a way to help.........of course you have to be prepared to do so.

And all credit to Tony Bennett and his MF members for their commitment to changing the system, lets hope the powers that be sit up and take some notice.

Sorry I am at a loss at how the subject of TB has randomly been placed into this. Have you no comment on my other posts. I would be genuinely interested in people's opinion..

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Re: THE McCANNS, THE PUBLIC'S JUSTIFIABLE ANGER

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 21.05.10 22:55

@twinkle wrote:I do feel like I am ranting slightly, but this isn't directed at anyone personally.
I just feel a huge amount of sadness at three years of time spent parading the McCanns as the evil of bad parenting.......believe me they wouldn't even make it into the top 100.

Had it not been for the blood and cadaver I'm sure many people would have moved on from this tragic case. But the McCanns won't let people move on, though, will they because they're in the news at any given opportunity asking us to remember Maddie and help find her.

Personally I would love to see the McCanns proven innocent but I don't think they are and that's what keeps me interested in this case because I want to know if they are or not and I want to see justice for Maddie. I don't want to see the perpetrator/s of this crime get away with 'it' - whatever 'it' is. If the McCanns had anything to do with this, then I don't want them to get away with it, especially if Maddie is dead and they know it. If they honestly had nothing to do with 'it' then I want to see their name cleared properly in that they are absolved of any suspicion and they receive apologies and compensation.

If I was Maddie's parent and I was innocent I would have done everything to help the investigation and keep it open, and the fact that the McCanns didn't do that doesn't exactly look good which is why many people think they are the ones getting away with 'it' and not some 'abductor'.

If it ever transpires that Maddie is dead and that her parents were involved and did indeed fake her abduction then I think that "parading the McCanns as the evil of bad parenting" hasn't been a waste of three years and that they would, indeed, make it into the top 100.

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Re: THE McCANNS, THE PUBLIC'S JUSTIFIABLE ANGER

Post by twinkle on 21.05.10 23:07

jkh wrote:
@twinkle wrote:I do feel like I am ranting slightly, but this isn't directed at anyone personally.
I just feel a huge amount of sadness at three years of time spent parading the McCanns as the evil of bad parenting.......believe me they wouldn't even make it into the top 100.

Had it not been for the blood and cadaver I'm sure many people would have moved on from this tragic case. But the McCanns won't let people move on, though, will they because they're in the news at any given opportunity asking us to remember Maddie and help find her.

Personally I would love to see the McCanns proven innocent but I don't think they are and that's what keeps me interested in this case because I want to know if they are or not and I want to see justice for Maddie. I don't want to see the perpetrator/s of this crime get away with 'it' - whatever 'it' is. If the McCanns had anything to do with this, then I don't want them to get away with it, especially if Maddie is dead and they know it. If they honestly had nothing to do with 'it' then I want to see their name cleared properly in that they are absolved of any suspicion and they receive apologies and compensation.

If I was Maddie's parent and I was innocent I would have done everything to help the investigation and keep it open, and the fact that the McCanns didn't do that doesn't exactly look good which is why many people think they are the ones getting away with 'it' and not some 'abductor'.

If it ever transpires that Maddie is dead and that her parents were involved and did indeed fake her abduction then I think that "parading the McCanns as the evil of bad parenting" hasn't been a waste of three years and that they would, indeed, make it into the top 100.

Very fair point Jill, thanks for the reply.

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Re: THE McCANNS, THE PUBLIC'S JUSTIFIABLE ANGER

Post by Judge Mental on 22.05.10 0:42

'Sorry your post is misleading and ridiculous. I work with many children who should be on the at risk register who aren't, the system is flawed sadly.........many children live in horrendous conditions who aren't recieving the help that they need .................. Pity some people whose passion is so strong to help vunerable children don't invest some of their time actually doing something positive by maybe working with agencies involved in this instead of focussing on one set of parents they believe are neglectful...........when the reality is there are many who are, and many, many children out there who do need help everyday.'

*******************************************************************************o

Has it ever crossd your mind that a great many of the people who wish to find out what really happened to Madeleine may already be working with or within agencies?

One is of course assuming that all the children you work with are most promptly assessed for the register as soon as you personally inform the authorities of your observations? Perhaps you would be better placed at this moment in helping those children you know personally, who live in 'horrendous conditions', than watching us go around in circles repeating ourselves over and over at the injustice of it all, whilst you try to defend the indefensible by making out that the Tapas 9 used normal and accepted parenting skills.

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Re: THE McCANNS, THE PUBLIC'S JUSTIFIABLE ANGER

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 22.05.10 7:00

@twinkle wrote:Neglect is of course abuse, but it is also a very grey area in terms of bringing a prosecution.
Neglect is a picture that is built up over a period of time. Various agencies need to be involved for the picture to form. It may start with school becoming concerned about a family or child, logs would be made until it became clear that there were issues that needed attention. Contact would be made to the parents/carers by the school under the safeguarding policy and relevant agencies alerted if necessary. Building the picture of neglect is a long process if there are no other signs such as physical abuse to support it. Certainly a week of doing what the McCanns did would not have brought any prosecution in this country however people feel about it.

I would take issue with the last sentence of this post. Prosecution might not have been the end result, but the circumstances would have been investigated, assessed and recorded for possible future referrals.
All I can add is that if the McCanns had been holidaying in England and the duty social worker had received a referral at 9.30pm that there were 3 children under 4 years of age, alone in an unlocked apartment, it would have warranted an emergency visit. The social worker, on finding the children alone as reported, would have had no option but to remove them all to a Place of Safety. Even if the parents had turned up it would have made no difference as the social worker would have no way of knowing if they would not just clear off again when the social worker left. Class would not have come into it. That was the law.
Once the emergency had been dealt with, the circumstances would be investigated, police, medical reports, social reports etc If it had been a one off and there were no other concerns about the family, it is quite possible that the children would have been returned, but if the ongoing assessment revealed that the children had been regularly left alone, that a neighbour had complained about one of the children crying for over an hour one night, and the Gaspars had made their statements, then nobody can say whether or not a prosecution would ensue. We do not know what other issues an assessment would reveal, so prosecution can be neither confirmed or discarded based solely on what we, members of a forum, know.

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I have been retired for many years so accept that the above post could be out of date. If so, perhaps that is why there does seem to be an upsurge these days of vulnerable children being let down. There have always been failures, but they do seem to occur more frequently now. No criticism intended to any current child care workers. I think we had better support and backup in my day.

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Re: THE McCANNS, THE PUBLIC'S JUSTIFIABLE ANGER

Post by Cherry on 22.05.10 16:49

I think this tragic case has certainly raised awareness in general of the abuse of children, it has also highlighted issues such as elite paedophile rings (which may or may not be directly related to the case), it has brought out the worse in some people who have tried to make excuses for what the Mccanns have done or minimise the seriousness of what they have done, but it has also brought out the best in people in the indignation and disbelief and horror we have seen expressed about leaving three little toddlers alone (which you should never ever do!), and the determination to find out what happened to a little girl who seemingly vanished into thin air!. It has shown imo if you have contacts, can pull in a few favours here and there, you are somehow treated differently to those who dont have the contacts or favours to call in.

Twinkle is right to say there are so many children out there who are being abused who are not getting the help they need - either because the statutory services are understaffed and have so many cases they seemingly fail to do their jobs properly or perhaps they are too concerned about the rights of the parents and not the rights of the child or perhaps in some cases people just turn a blind eye and do not report it when they know a child is being abused and it is not being picked up by professionals who come into contact with the child.

Many charities are doing such great work, some of them struggling on a daily basis to survive due to lack of funding while others sadly have perhaps too much funding which is too often misappropriated imo on exorbitant salaries, too many staff, wasting money on constant rebranding of image, logos etc., glossy expensive reports,mailouts, expensive plush offices etc.

It would be great if we could see the day when the elite paedophile rings are exposed and all those involved with abusing children in care and other places are brought immediately to justice with an end to the ridiculous sentencing of paedophiles and all those who abuse and neglect children and a day when the rights of the child are put before the rights of the parents!

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