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Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

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Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by woodforthetrees on Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:18 pm

This is true speculation and purely my opinion, but i'm getting the impression more and more that the McCanns funds have finally dried up and the last of their backers have stopped coughing up. Anyone else thinking the same thing??



What makes me think this?....



Firstly, i believe they were banking (literally) on the payout from the Libel trial in Lisbon against Goncalo Amaral to keep them afloat. This, as we saw, it was cleverly delayed by Amaral, much to the sheer frustration of the McCanns. Their last ditch attempt to settle out of court to me was, in my opinion, an attempt to 'grab the cash quick' as the bank account has been running dry. All signs of panic and loss of control...



Secondly, the latest videos produced by Richard D Hall would have normally created a 'wwooosh' of activity with Carter-Ruck etc to have them removed and various injunctions enforced with immediate effect. Alas...all quiet on that front, which hints that the 'fighting fund' has run out and it has fought it's last battle. This is a sign of helplesness, as all they can do now is sit back and watch yet more people be educated on the items not shown in the MSM.



Then there's the latest 'McCannes to sue the Times', which to me just looks like an idle threat to see if coughers at the Times would give them some quick hush money? It seems to have backfired as from what i can see.....no case has kicked off and the press are all quiet. I think this was the final 'clutching at straws' now.



So, with no fighting fund, there are no lawyers, unless they are prepared to work on a 'no win, no fee' basis and based on the complexity they bring to each case, it is unlikely any would operate on that basis. 



On a side note Clarence 'Witchell' must also be running the barrel really dry. Lets hope for him that his annual fee was paid up front, otherwise he will soon turn into a 'no comment' contender. That said, he has been remarkably quiet of late, so maybe his pay packet has ended as well...................

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by Cristobell on Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:08 pm

@woodforthetrees wrote:This is true speculation and purely my opinion, but i'm getting the impression more and more that the McCanns funds have finally dried up and the last of their backers have stopped coughing up. Anyone else thinking the same thing??



What makes me think this?....



Firstly, i believe they were banking (literally) on the payout from the Libel trial in Lisbon against Goncalo Amaral to keep them afloat. This, as we saw, it was cleverly delayed by Amaral, much to the sheer frustration of the McCanns. Their last ditch attempt to settle out of court to me was, in my opinion, an attempt to 'grab the cash quick' as the bank account has been running dry. All signs of panic and loss of control...



Secondly, the latest videos produced by Richard D Hall would have normally created a 'wwooosh' of activity with Carter-Ruck etc to have them removed and various injunctions enforced with immediate effect. Alas...all quiet on that front, which hints that the 'fighting fund' has run out and it has fought it's last battle. This is a sign of helplesness, as all they can do now is sit back and watch yet more people be educated on the items not shown in the MSM.



Then there's the latest 'McCannes to sue the Times', which to me just looks like an idle threat to see if coughers at the Times would give them some quick hush money? It seems to have backfired as from what i can see.....no case has kicked off and the press are all quiet. I think this was the final 'clutching at straws' now.



So, with no fighting fund, there are no lawyers, unless they are prepared to work on a 'no win, no fee' basis and based on the complexity they bring to each case, it is unlikely any would operate on that basis. 



On a side note Clarence 'Witchell' must also be running the barrel really dry. Lets hope for him that his annual fee was paid up front, otherwise he will soon turn into a 'no comment' contender. That said, he has been remarkably quiet of late, so maybe his pay packet has ended as well...................
I think you are right Woodforthetrees, those videos wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes when the McCanns were in power.  Look at the way the Mirror Forum was whooshed. 

As for working on a pro bono basis, can it be said it would be for the public good to sue people on behalf of these parents? 

The McCanns, probably astounded at how easy it was to demand money with menaces through the British courts, hoped to make a lucrative career out of it.  As I have said before, I worked for 20+ years as a legal secretary in te City of London and encountered many vexatious litigants.   All of them had the same two significant traits as Kate and Gerry:

1.  Nasty, demanding personalities
2.  Refusal to listen to advice

All of them, without exception, met sticky ends, when they went that one law suit too far.  There was almost a sweet sense of satisfaction watching their downfall, as we said 'yes sir, yes m'am'' and did what they told us too.  Its taken a long time to get there for the McCanns, but I suspect the staff and secretaries at Carter Ruck are now probably laughing their socks off.

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by Dr What on Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:36 pm

You may well be correct.There may not be much left in the Fund.

However, I would wager that large amounts have been syphoned off,transferred elsewhere, to assist them and their children in years to come.After all, we don't really know exactly how much has gone where.The accounts are very vague.

It could be that they do not want to lose what has been squirrelled away for the rainy days to come, on legal expenses.

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by PeterMac on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:09 pm

@Cristobell wrote:
All of them, without exception, met sticky ends, when they went that one law suit too far.  There was almost a sweet sense of satisfaction watching their downfall, as we said 'yes sir, yes m'am'' and did what they told us too.  Its taken a long time to get there for the McCanns, but I suspect the staff and secretaries at Carter Ruck are now probably laughing their socks off.
I also suspect that Carter-Ruck will not touch them with a barge pole.
C-R racked up a third of a million in chargeable time, brought in a Silk at some ludicrous brief fee and daily refresher,
only to have their entire edifice brought down by one simple question from TB.
They have no chance of ever re-couping their costs.  (TB is paying about a third of his pension for life, but that barely covers the administrative effort in accounting for it.)

They (TM AND C-R) were on any test made to look vindictive and rapacious.
Mrs Martorell was made to look extremely stupid - trying to fall back on the Nuremberg Defence - I was acting under orders - when she made the admission to the effect 'I said this on oath because they told me to"

IF they every try it on again, the first question to them would surely along the lines
Sir (or Madam)
In
McCann -v- Bennett you said, under oath and on the record,  that you had no evidence to support the basic fact on which the entire litigation rested.
You admitted that the whole thing was based purely on what your clients had told you.  Your clients, who are proven liars - and you were handed the document "Egregious examples" during those proceedings - have, we may assume now told you some more things.
What enquiries have you yourselves made this time to verify anything you have been told ?
And incidentally why didn't you do it last time ?


I cannot imagine a man as intellectually able and professionally responsible as Adam Tudor permitting any of his team to put themselves in that position.
I cannot imagine that Mrs Martorell would wish to associate herself with the McCanns again, as it is certain that she would have done some research after the event, and would have discovered what she had been duped into doing on their behalf.
And the document "Egregious examples" was of course handed to C-R, as well as to Tugendhat J.

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by tiny on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:27 pm

@Dr What wrote:You may well be correct.There may not be much left in the Fund.

However, I would wager that large amounts have been syphoned off,transferred elsewhere, to assist them and their children in years to come.After all, we don't really know exactly how much has gone where.The accounts are very vague.

It could be that they do not want to lose what has been squirrelled away for the rainy days to come, on legal expenses.
I am pretty sure the mccanns have done this as well.

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:39 pm

woodforthetrees wrote:
"Firstly, i believe they were banking (literally) on the payout from the Libel trial in Lisbon against Goncalo Amaral to keep them afloat. This, as we saw, it was cleverly delayed by Amaral, much to the sheer frustration of the McCanns."


It seems you are saying that GA deliberately delayed the trial. 
I don't agree with you. He had reason to sack his lawyer and did so. This was in his mind necessary, and was his right. I don't believe he did this unless there was a very good reason, and it wasn't to delay the trial.

Just a reminder of GA's own words:
"Unfortunately, due to clearly dilatory manoeuvres from the plaintiffs, that have once more forced a postponement of the hearing, I am afraid that the trial will drag on – as they clearly wish - and we won't have a sentence soon, as I wish would happen, and as I long for."
(21/07/2014)

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:42 pm

@Dr What wrote:You may well be correct.There may not be much left in the Fund.

However, I would wager that large amounts have been syphoned off,transferred elsewhere, to assist them and their children in years to come.After all, we don't really know exactly how much has gone where.The accounts are very vague.

It could be that they do not want to lose what has been squirrelled away for the rainy days to come, on legal expenses.

I believe one of the reasons the Fund was set up was to pay for their legal expenses.

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by Dr What on Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:00 pm

I agree.

However, they also wished the family to benefit from the Fund.In other words, they wanted it to do two things:

Pay for legal expenses.

Provide an investment nest-egg for the whole family.


So far, it has paid for legal expenses.However, they have lost legal actions already and there is the possibility of losing more.
Do they really want to throw it all in to the forthcoming legal battles and risk the lot? Or do they want to preserve some of it to one side for the family?

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by View-from-Ireland on Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:02 pm

Some very interesting points are raised in the opening post. I get the feeling something changed about a year ago to be honest. There just seemed to be a number of small indications that the McCanns and friends were somehow on more shaky ground all of a sudden. 

It has been incredibly quiet recently. Calm before a storm?

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by woodforthetrees on Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:33 am

Some good points there crisobell and PeterMac, agree with both there.

With regard to your post dantezebu, We don't know the real reason for the delay, but you have a good point in that Amaral wants the trial to be over more quickly, rather than delay it, as it will unfreeze his assets and let him get on with his life.

I think the point i was trying to focus on is the McCanns level of anger at not 'getting their paws on the prize' when they thought it was a done deal, which to me spoke volumes.

It will be interesting to see if the McCanns decide to start coming out of the woodwork to do the paid rounds on the sofas again to drum up some cash, or whether they will remain quiet as they have been doing in the last month or 2?? The optimist in me tells me that they have been advised (told) by their advisors and hopefully by SY that they should not be allowed to do any more public appeals until the investigation has concluded, due to potential public backlash.

Looking forward to seeing their accounts for 2014!

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by Doug D on Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:10 am

Unfortunately it's likely to be Jan 2015 before we see them!

As at March 2013, there was around £400k left in the pot.
 
Based on statements in those accounts, ongoing expenditure is likely to be needed to pay for:
 
24 hour helpline
Admin support
Awareness campaign & website
Expenses for witnesses in the GA trial
 
The top three appeared to amount to about £140k in 2013, so probably similar in 2014, witness expenses must be considerable, and someone will presumably have to pay legal fees at some time.
 
There is also the matter of costs arising from the original ‘book’ trials, which were awarded against them, but allowed to be deferred pending the final trial outcome.
 
There is no ‘contingent liability’ recorded in the accounts regarding this award of costs, which are considerable. This can be justified on the basis that the award was made against the Mc’s, rather than the company, but if these costs were needed to be drawn out in the near future from the fund, would be enough to wipe out the balance, unless this years fundraising (2013 £70k) has been very successful, which seems unlikely.

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by roy rovers on Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:36 am

Good topic woodforthetrees. When the true history of this case comes to be written etc it will have to include the way that money alone was used to buy legal and public relations services in order to hinder the investigation and free speech. Remember Robert Maxwell who used the threat of legal action to cover his tracks.

From Wiki - In 1987 Robert Maxwell responded to the publication of two unauthorised biographies of himself with numerous lawsuits, threats of legal action against individual booksellers, and the rapid publication of an authorised biography by Joe Haines an editor on an newspaper which he owned. Of the two unauthorised books, Maxwell: A Portrait of Power by Peter Thompson and Anthony Delano was withdrawn from sale and all unsold copies pulped after Maxwell successfully sued the publishers and authors for libel. The second book, Maxwell: The Outsider by Bower sold out in hardback but Maxwell prevented the paperback edition appearing, in part by buying the publishing company which held the paperback rights. Maxwell also filed a libel action against Bower and the hardback publishers, Arum Press. Maxwell allowed this action to lapse in 1990 but only after Bower and Aurum had submitted a detailed defence of the book. Maxwell also tried to sue Bower in the English courts over an article published in America, by the magazine The New Republic, on the basis that it had 136 British subscribers. Bower also believes that Maxwell tried to break into his house and also went through his phone records and bank statements.

When the sands finally ran out for Maxwell he went for his final swim. The Tom Bower book is well worth a read as well as the follow up 'The Final Verdict' - an account of the events leading to Maxwell's death and of the fraud trial which followed.

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by woodforthetrees on Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:16 pm

Some useful info there Doug D, which corresponds with my thinking too...that the tank has run empty.

Plus, if people are getting scared about supporting them (paid or unpaid), then they surely must be coming to the end of the road. If that's the case, I’m sure if they lose the trial against Amaral, they will very quickly declare themselves bankrupt.

So....

Possible no cash if the fund calculations are correct, which means no legal support, there seems to be no-one willing to pay for them to chat on their sofa and no sign of any of the big hitting private funders throwing wads at them. This, along with Mitchell seemly quiet (potential contract ended/reduced as they can't afford him) and no injunctions being dished out against controversial journos/film producers would indicate that They are at the checkout with no wallet!!

Anyone know if they are back at work at the moment? They seem to have disappeared......... eek 

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by j.rob on Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:54 pm

@woodforthetrees wrote:Some good points there crisobell and PeterMac, agree with both there.

With regard to your post dantezebu, We don't know the real reason for the delay, but you have a good point in that Amaral wants the trial to be over more quickly, rather than delay it, as it will unfreeze his assets and let him get on with his life.

I think the point i was trying to focus on is the McCanns level of anger at not 'getting their paws on the prize' when they thought it was a done deal, which to me spoke volumes.

It will be interesting to see if the McCanns decide to start coming out of the woodwork to do the paid rounds on the sofas again to drum up some cash, or whether they will remain quiet as they have been doing in the last month or 2?? The optimist in me tells me that they have been advised (told) by their advisors and hopefully by SY that they should not be allowed to do any more public appeals until the investigation has concluded, due to potential public backlash.

Looking forward to seeing their accounts for 2014!

What I found so nauseating, when I saw the two of them giving interviews on the steps of the court following the libel hearings, is their whining and whinging effectively about how inconvenienced they have been by the delay. And the audacity of their claim that Amaral was being cynical.

And Kate having the cheek to bring up the subject of having to arrange childcare.

I mean, WTF?

No-one forced this odious duo to sue Amaral. That was entirely their own decision.

IMO, the whole 'abduction' scenario - in which they so cynically 'lost' their own daugther has been motivated by their own greed, cynicism and over-inflated egos. What about the cynicism with which they have treated their own daughter who appeared to be nothing more than 'a good marketing ploy'. Heartbreaking. I feel so sorry for Madeleine who had her future cruelly ripped away from her by the very people, imo, who should have been caring and looking after her.

And they have the cheek to call out other people - who are merely doing their jobs - as 'cynical'.

Breathtaking. 

People in glass houses and all that. 

Grrrrr -  prisoner

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Re: Has the gravy train come to the last stop??

Post by jay2001 on Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:52 pm

Surely they wouldn't have the gall to beg for money now.  The fund was supposed to be for searching and SY are in charge of 'search' now and it appears they're not in any hurry.  If SY really thought Madeleine was alive they wouldn't have spent 3 years pussyfooting about.  (One day I think whitewash next day I don't know!)

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