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Gerry / Murat - No comment

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Research_Reader on 31.07.14 12:49

@aquila wrote:I don't really want to debate on this but if you take on balance the objective of the press interview it achieved its aim. Loads of cameras, loads of journalists all ready to present copy to their pages.

I doubt any of them had time to analyse much....there would have been a scrum to get their reporting onto pages.

It's a percentage game.


In other words you don't believe that one badly or ambiguously answered question can often be turned into a headline and news story all of its own. Respectfully I disagree. And I also believe thats EXACTLY what highly paid PR gurus are there to protect against. If their only function were to just stand there whilst their clients reads from a piece of paper then they wouldn't be paid so much.

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by aquila on 31.07.14 12:54

@Research_Reader wrote:
@aquila wrote:I don't really want to debate on this but if you take on balance the objective of the press interview it achieved its aim. Loads of cameras, loads of journalists all ready to present copy to their pages.

I doubt any of them had time to analyse much....there would have been a scrum to get their reporting onto pages.

It's a percentage game.


In other words you don't believe that one badly or ambiguously answered question can often be turned into a headline and news story all of its own. Respectfully I disagree. And I also believe thats EXACTLY what highly paid PR gurus are there to protect against. If their only function were to just stand there whilst their clients reads from a piece of paper then they wouldn't be paid so much.
It's ok to disagree.

What I'll say is that Clarence's work was done before this interview. All that media coaching and scripting was done.

The only reason for the interview was to announce the 'campaign'.

The blip with Gerry's answer wasn't taken up by the media in terms of headline news.

Job done! (and there would be a bit more media coaching for the next interview).

Bloody awful, but that's how these things work.

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Research_Reader on 31.07.14 12:58

You don't seem to be even considering my point: Just because they lucked-out and the press were nice to them at that time, it doesn't mean that during the press conference Clarence shouldn't have clarified or challenged that question/answer. That is exactly why he was standing there! 

What I'm saying is that this implies he couldn't challenge it, or that he knew very well that to do so would open a whole can of worms that he daren't touch. 

Lets not also forget that this little exchange has gone on the record. People like us are discussing it. Maybe the police have paid attention to it and it has sparked certain lines of enquiry for them. Maybe it will be used in any future court case. I'm personally of the opinion that they'll never face justice (in this lifetime) but one can't deny the risk of this.

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by aquila on 31.07.14 13:05

@Research_Reader wrote:You don't seem to be even considering my point: Just because they lucked-out and the press were nice to them at that time, it doesn't mean that during the press conference Clarence shouldn't have clarified or challenged that question/answer. That is exactly why he was standing there! 

What I'm saying is that this implies he couldn't challenge it, or that he knew very well that to do so would open a whole can of worms that he daren't touch. 

Lets not also forget that this little exchange has gone on the record. People like us are discussing it. Maybe the police have paid attention to it and it has sparked certain lines of enquiry for them. Maybe it will be used in any future court case. I'm personally of the opinion that they'll never face justice (in this lifetime) but one can't deny the risk of this.
We're both on Madeleine's side.  friends

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Research_Reader on 31.07.14 13:09

Thats why its important to stress-test every avenue for signs of evidence.

My contention is that:

(1) Gerry gave a strangely-worded and ambiguous answer to whether he knew Murat.
(2) This answer wasn't clarified or supported by the highly paid PR guru who was physically standing there
(3) This is suspicious and deserves consideration not dismissal 

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Tony Bennett on 31.07.14 13:10

@Cristobell wrote:
I have been following this case in depth for 7 years...
But not in sufficient depth to be aware that Murat booked his flight to Faro in a hurry at past midnight on 1 May 2007

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by aiyoyo on 31.07.14 13:11

Often times it is better to ignore the mistake so as not to draw attention to it.

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Justformaddie on 31.07.14 13:11

With the campaign likely the reason for this interview, could it be gm thought, that so and so Murat, being made a suspect is not going to help with the money rolling in, stupid man, I'm fuming at him? Regardless of knowing him or not?
IMO

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by aquila on 31.07.14 13:14

@aiyoyo wrote:Often times it is better to ignore the mistake so as not to draw attention to it.
Bang on!

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Research_Reader on 31.07.14 13:17

@aquila wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Often times it is better to ignore the mistake so as not to draw attention to it.
Bang on!


But Gerry's response didn't draw attention to it?

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Cristobell on 31.07.14 13:26

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
I have been following this case in depth for 7 years...
But not in sufficient depth to be aware that Murat booked his flight to Faro in a hurry at past midnight on 1 May 2007

Don't assume that people who disagree with you have less knowledge of the case Tony, we have simply reached different conclusions.  You believe Murat is involved and that is the line you are following.  I dont.  I have examined the evidence, just as you have, but my interpretation is completely different.

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Guest on 31.07.14 13:31

I think that's a good point, Cristobell.

Perhaps I can sum it up by saying that we may disagree on some of the finer points along the way - we all have our different areas of expertise - but that we all agree on wanting those responsible brought to justice.

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by aiyoyo on 31.07.14 13:37

@BlueBag wrote:
He already said he didn't want to comment about the investigation.. so when he gets asked about someone being investigated he says "I'm not going to comment on that."

Was he asked : what did you think of Robert Murat being investigated? NO.

The question was " But, did you know Robert Murat ?"

PR Guru standing beside him or not should make no difference.
That question was posed to Gerry, only Gerry knows and can answer whether he knew Murat or not?
Why should presence of PR Guru have an influence over his answer, or rather why should CM influence his answer?
If it's about spinning the answer, then yes spin master next to him would come in handy.
Surely the whole point is he should be able to answer such a simple question honestly and not think about consequences if he was innocent.
What could be the reason for not answering to the point?
In fact giving a sinister answer would suggest he was hiding something, that probably he did know Robert Murat.





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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Research_Reader on 31.07.14 13:46

Just to point it out super-clearly in black-and-white:

My point about Mitchell was not about whether he would have stopped Gerry making that mistake, it was about the lack of him piping up to clarify or block-off speculation about that answer.

In other words: something that a highly paid PR guru SHOULD have done, he didn't do. And that is revealing. 

PR people don't just leave negative lines of enquiry hanging loose with a weak and ambiguous answer. They provide a robust counterpoint.  

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by aiyoyo on 31.07.14 13:50

@Research_Reader wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Often times it is better to ignore the mistake so as not to draw attention to it.
Bang on!


But Gerry's response didn't draw attention to it?

Only if CM had intervened, adding comment or correcting Gerry's reply, then attention is drawn to it that his reply was not up to GR Guru liking.

If Gerry's answer was not appropriate or not to CM liking the best bet is to leave it at that, and then caution Gerry in private afterward, and not draw attention to it by intervening.

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Tony Bennett on 31.07.14 13:50

@aiyoyo wrote:Often times it is better to ignore the mistake so as not to draw attention to it.
Or to put it another way, aiyoyo, Often times it is better not to post about a controversial issue on a forum so as not to draw attention to it, and other issues surrounding it.

What BlueBag has done is drawn attention to a very significant day or period in this case: Sunday 20th to Tuesday 22nd May.

With the help of some quotes from Dr Kate's book, 'madeleine', here are some of the things that were going on during those three days:

++++++++++++

"On Sunday 20 May, Gerry left for the UK" (p. 147) 

He went to get some of Madeleine's DNA from a pillow at their home in Rothley. It has never been explained why none of Madeleine's DNA could be found in Praia da Luz.

"Gerry decided not to stay at our house. It would have been too distressing...he spent both nights with friends who had so far managed to steer clear of the media searchlights..." (p. 147)

"On Mnday [21st], Gerry met with British police..." (p. 147) 

"...holidaymakers who had been in the Algarve would be encouraged to send in photographs to CEOP...to us this seemed a massive step forward" (p. 147)

Did Gerry McCann have a personal meeting with Jim Gamble on this occasion? He went to CEOP HQ, a short distance away from the HQ of British Freemasonry.

"Later that same day [21st] Gerry met Clarence for the first time...Clarence missed the cut and thrust of big stories...Gerry hit it off with Clarence straightaway..." (p. 148)

"Clarence sprang into action immediately..." (p. 148) and hurriedly arranged for Gerry McCann to be spirited up to Rothley for a quick photoshoot of him at the market cross in Rothley, amidst all " the messages. flowers and cuddly toys for Madeleine..." (p. 148)

"At lunchtime on Tuesday 21st May, Gerry arrived back in Praia da Luz with Clarence. My first impressions of Clarence were good. He was very friendly and knowledgeable and...seemed genuinely concerned about Madeleine...He and Gerry had chatted non-stop during the two-and-a-half-hour flight to Faro" (p. 151)

"When Gerry had told Clarence about Jane Tanner's sighting he was astounded that this still hadn't been made public" (p. 151)

But Jane Tanner had already said that Tannerman was Robert Murat, leading to his arrest and being made a suspect.

"In the evening, Gerry's sister Phil flew in from Glasgow..." (p. 152)

And did she perhaps bring with her the camera or SIMcard with the 'Last Photo' on it, perhaps photoshopped or given brand new date and time stamp by her husband, quicksand fetishist Tony Rickwood?

The Last Photo was released to the press two days later, on 24 May.

"On Wednesday 23 May we had the 250-mile journey to Fatima ahead of us...it was Clarence's first full day in Portugal...He'll kill me for mentioning this, but he managed to oversleep..." (pp. 152-3)

"Seconds before we arrived in Fatima, Gerry received a telephone call from Gordon Brown...Gerry commented on the marked empathy and sincerity in Mr Brown's voice" (p. 153)

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Justformaddie on 31.07.14 13:51

I wonder if cm didn't think there was anything wrong or bad that could come of it, maybe that's why nothing was said off it afterwards?

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Tony Bennett on 31.07.14 13:58

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Research_Reader wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Often times it is better to ignore the mistake so as not to draw attention to it.
Bang on!
But Gerry's response didn't draw attention to it?

Only if CM had intervened, adding comment or correcting Gerry's reply, then attention is drawn to it that his reply was not up to GR Guru liking.

If Gerry's answer was not appropriate or not to CM liking the best bet is to  leave it at that, and then caution Gerry in private afterward, and not draw attention to it by intervening.
Oh the dilemmas of a public relations guru when your client has put his foot right in it.

To misquote Shakespeare:

"To explain the comment, or not explain the comment; that is the question; whether 'tis nobler blah blah bah..."

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by aiyoyo on 31.07.14 14:18

@Research_Reader wrote:Just to point it out super-clearly in black-and-white:

My point about Mitchell was not about whether he would have stopped Gerry making that mistake, it was about the lack of him piping up to clarify or block-off speculation about that answer.

In other words: something that a highly paid PR guru SHOULD have done, he didn't do. And that is revealing. 

PR people don't just leave negative lines of enquiry hanging loose with a weak and ambiguous answer. They provide a robust counterpoint.  


This instance in question a robust counterpoint would be counter productive as no counter point could retract Gerry's words. Too late for that, the mistake was made. Countering would not block off speculation, it would be worst ,since countering would make his mistake appear more glaring.

A good PR knows when it is effective to counter and when best to leave it be to avoid drawing more attention to it.




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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by suzyjohnson on 31.07.14 14:25

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:
@Research_Reader wrote:Yet some people think its ridiculous that GM and RM could have known one another.

Some people just seem to operate on the basis: don't bother me with the facts, I've already made my mind up!
Research Reader, from Tony Bennett's quote above your post, KM wrote that she had never been to Portugal before but that GM had been there previously to play golf. She didn't say specifically here that GM had actually been to PdL. 
But Research_Reader's general point remains valid.

Where in Portugal did Dr Gerald McCann play golf? 

Maybe at the golf courses close to Praia da Luz, of which there are several.

Where did he stay when he played golf in Portugal?

Possibly Praia da Luz.  

Fellow-members of his Rothley Golf Club were regulars at some of the golf courses around Praia da Luz, a matter that IIRC HelenMeg has investigated on this forum in some detail.

Why did Murat lie about where he was on the afternoon of 3 May?

He admitted, when police confronted him with his mobile 'phone pings, that he was at the Palmeras Golf Club that afternoon.

Why was he there?

Who else was there with him?

And for that matter why had he switched off his normal mobile 'phone for the day?

And exactly where was Gerry McCann that afternoon?

Yes your quote from KM's book leads to further questions and that's fine.

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by suzyjohnson on 31.07.14 14:28

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:Context for the reply? The body language surrounding the comment is enough for anyone to make a reasonable deduction. Every time Gerry is asked about one of the "hot potatoes" he squirms and wriggles and nearly climbs out of his own skin. It is cringeworthy how Mr McCann has absolutely no control over his bodily giveaways.

The only correct answer to the question would be "no, I didn't know him before" - if indeed that was the truth. There is no secrecy, you either knew someone or you didn't. His answer and accompanying body language provides the true answer, and anyone trying to obfuscate that is merely making a bit of an arse of themselves. A five year old could interpret that clip correctly and probably be appalled at the bad fist Gerry made of the matter.

Granted overall context is important, but in this instance the question was a simple one :  "Did you know Murat" - that is the only context that should apply. There is a world of difference between "No Comment" and "I am not going to comment on that"  -- as in nothing to say vs not going to tell you; also as in, evasive vs devious.

If he did not know Murat, what could be simplier than giving an outright answer "NO", or even "No Comment".

If the "did you know Murat" question was a follow-on question from the context of Murat being arguidoed then Gerry's answer is indeed odd and given to suspicion.

The man was arrested, suspected of being involved in your daughter's disappearance, and you can't answer a simple question on National TV with a direct straight forward 'Yes or No' answer as to whether  DID YOU or DID YOU NOT know the suspect?
He is a suspect for heaven sake, just on this context alone, your answer is important.
He must know the inference of that question, how can he not know?  He answer suggests he knew knew the inference.

In the context of observation of Portuguese secrecy code obliged upon him not to talk about all matters relating to the investigation, what's stopping him saying so, he has been known to cite that when it suited his purpose going further to say he risks 2 year imprisonment otherwise; or simply answer the question to the point Yes or No, or no comment.  

So, why pertaining to the matter of Murat, he can't say the same or better still give an honest answer to a simple question.  I don't believe for a blinking second he received official warning not to comment on matter that is subject specific, particularly where Murat is concerned.   The restraint imposition by law is a generic one where the case is concerned.

Unless of course people mean he'd been warned by friends/family not to comment on Murat then that is a different matter altogether.  I don't believe Gerry need or can be told what to do/say and what not to do/say.  Gerry is not a stupid man, far from it, he knows the inference and the implication of that question.

Persuasive argument there Aiyoyo

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by suzyjohnson on 31.07.14 14:37

@aquila wrote:
The result was that Gerald McCann, amazingly announced the campaign, the money, the intention to travel blah blah whilst someone had been made a suspect!

When you look at it like that aquila and you take into account that -

JT thought she had seen Murat carrying MM -

it's actually quite surprising that they were continuing to promote everything else at the same time.

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Justformaddie on 31.07.14 14:43

@suzyjohnson wrote:
@aquila wrote:
The result was that Gerald McCann, amazingly announced the campaign, the money, the intention to travel blah blah whilst someone had been made a suspect!

When you look at it like that aquila and you take into account that -

JT thought she had seen Murat carrying MM -

it's actually quite surprising that they were continuing to promote everything else at the same time.
Spot on. Why were they more interested in campaigning, money and travel when the police had a suspect? I'd be as sick as hell if it were any of mine! IMO  eek Then again, they probably knew Murat was leading them nowhere IMO

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Tony Bennett on 31.07.14 14:46

@suzyjohnson wrote:
@aquila wrote:
The result was that Gerald McCann, amazingly announced the campaign, the money, the intention to travel blah blah whilst someone had been made a suspect!

When you look at it like that aquila and you take into account that -

JT thought she had seen Murat carrying MM
According to Amaral, whom I believe on this point, Jane Tanner was adamant that it was Robert Murat.

I consider on all the evidence that this was a very deliberate lie.

I also consider that by the time she made that false identification (13 May) - some 36 hours before Robert Murat - there was a concerted plan in operation to frame Robert Murat for an abduction.

I further consider that any such plan must have been authorised at a very high level indeed.

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Re: Gerry / Murat - No comment

Post by Research_Reader on 31.07.14 14:46

Aiyoyo
Only if there was something to hide would he keep silent. Which is my very point!

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