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WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

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Who still thinks this is a whitewash?

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Total Votes : 84

Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Tony Bennett on 31.07.14 23:54

@Cristobell wrote:
With respect your reply is generic Tony, it doesn't address the points I raised.

I never before seen a whitewash conducted in the full glare of publicity. Successful whitewashes never make the news.  B

This is the 21st century, a bucket of white paint simply won't do. 

You claim that Scotland Yard's remit is to investigate the case as if it were an abduction and nothing else. . 

If Scotland Yard have a remit to clear the McCanns, they would not have embarked on a very public dig for a body while the McCanns were fighting a libel trial in Lisbon that could ruin them. 

The abduction story has not been strengthened by the review of or the investigation, Tony, it has been weakened.  

In order to achieve anything in life you have to take the correct steps along the way to accomplish it.  You have to lay foundations, bit by bit, step by step. 

There has been no evidence from Scotland Yard that leads us away from the parents. 

Scotland Yard's remit (like everything in life) has evolved.
@ Cristobell

There is no point in us discussing this issue any more; we must agree to disagree. I have presented my evidence that Grange is a whitewash; you and many others do not agree with me.

As for all life evolving, no-one who believes the increasingly-discredited theory of evolution has yet been able to answer the question: "Which came first,  the chicken or the egg?"

Do you also have an answer for that?

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Okeydokey on 01.08.14 0:07

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
With respect your reply is generic Tony, it doesn't address the points I raised.

I never before seen a whitewash conducted in the full glare of publicity. Successful whitewashes never make the news.  B

This is the 21st century, a bucket of white paint simply won't do. 

You claim that Scotland Yard's remit is to investigate the case as if it were an abduction and nothing else. . 

If Scotland Yard have a remit to clear the McCanns, they would not have embarked on a very public dig for a body while the McCanns were fighting a libel trial in Lisbon that could ruin them. 

The abduction story has not been strengthened by the review of or the investigation, Tony, it has been weakened.  

In order to achieve anything in life you have to take the correct steps along the way to accomplish it.  You have to lay foundations, bit by bit, step by step. 

There has been no evidence from Scotland Yard that leads us away from the parents. 

Scotland Yard's remit (like everything in life) has evolved.
@ Cristobell

There is no point in us discussing this issue any more; we must agree to disagree. I have presented my evidence that Grange is a whitewash; you and many others do not agree with me.

As for all life evolving, no-one who believes the increasingly-discredited theory of evolution has yet been able to answer the question: "Which came first,  the chicken or the egg?"

Do you also have an answer for that?

Back to school on evolution, Tony - sexual reproduction was itself a product of evolution. :)

However, I am with you on Grange as a whitewash.

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Woofer on 01.08.14 0:24

It just shows how good Tony and Cristobel are at debating because I still waiver on the whitewash issue.  I`m usually in the whitewash camp but don`t like being there, so when I read Cristobel`s positive outlook it puts me right back on top of the fence again. 

Tony - I would have thought you`d know that the chicken came first - was it on the 3rd or 4th day? and that God said `let them be fruitful` ...... and I suppose that`s when the chicken laid an egg.

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.08.14 0:45

@Woofer wrote:It just shows how good Tony and Cristobell are at debating because I still waver on the whitewash issue.  I'm usually in the whitewash camp but don't like being there, so when I read Cristobell's positive outlook it puts me right back on top of the fence again. 

Tony - I would have thought you'd know that the chicken came first - was it on the 3rd or 4th day? and that God said: 'Let them be fruitful...and I suppose that's when the chicken laid an egg.
Yes, on the 3rd day of the Creation Week God created all plant life, and it was on the 5th day that He created most of the animal kingdom. He had to create the plants first so that when the chicken, with its inbuilt egg-laying capacity, and all the other creatures, were brought into existence, they had plenty to eat.
We mustn't let this thread veer off-topic, and to the extent that it has, I shall of course blame Cristobell for starting it  winkwink with her two equally contentious and IMO false statements:

1. Grange's remit has evolved
2. All life has evolved.

I agree by the way that on the subject of Grange, Cristobell is optimistic, positive, and cheers people up.

However, it is also true that optimism may often be misplaced.

And wasn't Cassandra right, after all? 

And, come to think of it, Jeremiah as well?  >>>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgDles4xq8

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Guest on 01.08.14 8:02

@Woofer wrote:It just shows how good Tony and Cristobel are at debating because I still waiver on the whitewash issue.  I`m usually in the whitewash camp but don`t like being there, so when I read Cristobel`s positive outlook it puts me right back on top of the fence again. 

 agree that's exactly how I feel too.

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by PeterMac on 01.08.14 8:07

What do you use to cover up a whitewash ?

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by HelenMeg on 01.08.14 9:48

I think there is a possibility that the remit for Op Grange has been altered from that of the original remit.
Having found it impossible to credibly 'resolve' the case as an abduction, they may well have been forced into re-thinking. Whoever is 'directing' this may, for various reasons (e.g. PJ investigation / public opinion / police files in public domain), have authorised that the case be closed revealing a partial version of the truth ( e.g. identifying TAPAS 9 as guilty parties but not exposing wider circle).  I cannot see why that cannot be a possibility. The director, who once thought it might be easy to get the case closed, may have been forced to change opinion and resort to Plan B.

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Angelique on 01.08.14 10:17

@PeterMac wrote:What do you use to cover up a whitewash ?

 big grin 

Its got to be black paint - so you say, "Look - there's nothing there" - one of mine and my sons favourite quotes from Jack Dee!

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Woofer on 01.08.14 10:51

@Angelique wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:What do you use to cover up a whitewash ?

 big grin 

Its got to be black paint - so you say, "Look - there's nothing there" - one of mine and my sons favourite quotes from Jack Dee!
 
If Peter is being serious, it surely can only be a media blackout or some sort of DA Notice/Gagging Order.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_blackout

Although this piece is about paedophilia being whitewashed, it puts forward the idea that whitewashes aren`t as easy to achieve these days because of the internet bloggers, many of whom have deserted the MSM in order to tell the truth.

http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/why-a-whitewash-wont-wash/

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by HelenMeg on 01.08.14 11:35

If there is a 'whitewash' going on then it is being directed by someone  / or some persons that control the activities of Op Grange. The Home Office, for example, ordered the review / investigation.

My question refers to the 'establishment'.  Can anyone tell me just who is the 'establishment'?

I find it hard to actually imagine the conversations that must be taking place 'on high' in the 'establishment'.
There MUST be actual conversations taking place about the remit of Op Grange. Who directs?
Who belongs to the shadowy  'establishment' ?  I'm tired of it being called the establishment. I think, for purposes of accountability, we need to understand which people are making and deciding the decisions that protect / cover up and impact us all.  Are we talking DC or higher ? and who indeed is higher?

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by BlueBag on 01.08.14 11:55

@PeterMac wrote:What do you use to cover up a whitewash ?

Ring Tony Blair for advice?

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Woofer on 01.08.14 12:05

@ Helenmeg - Interesting question indeed - " Can anyone tell me just who is the 'establishment'? "

It would have to be the billionaires, the media moguls, the bankers - I doubt very much its the politicians and judges - they are just puppets with dodgey proclivities so can be blackmailed.  All thats required of a politician is a lust for fame and power and an ability to lie with impunity.  Not all of them of course, but the good ones will find it tough to get anywhere.  Someone made a remark here that Putin described Westminster as a nest of paedophiles and I`m sure he`s right.

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by aquila on 01.08.14 12:09

@BlueBag wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:What do you use to cover up a whitewash ?

Ring Tony Blair for advice?
If you're the McCanns you don't need to ring Tony Blair, his wife will call you and you can have a good old natter and Tony will have a chat with you too, saying 'if there's anything I can do for you don't hesitate to ask me'. (see Kate's diary).

Tony Blair gave Rebekkah Brooks lovely advice about holding tight when the shit hit the fan.

Rebekkah Brooks exonerated.

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by HelenMeg on 01.08.14 12:32

@Woofer wrote:@ Helenmeg - Interesting question indeed - " Can anyone tell me just who is the 'establishment'? "

It would have to be the billionaires, the media moguls, the bankers - I doubt very much its the politicians and judges - they are just puppets with dodgey proclivities so can be blackmailed.  All thats required of a politician is a lust for fame and power and an ability to lie with impunity.  Not all of them of course, but the good ones will find it tough to get anywhere.  Someone made a remark here that Putin described Westminster as a nest of paedophiles and I`m sure he`s right.
Thanks Woofer. For SOMEONE to influence and order the remit of Op GRANGE, or any other Operation  - I wonder if it gets passed down from pillar to post.... I imagine this circle of establishment figures sitting together and making the decision about which way to go.... Or is it a series of phone calls ?

How is a decision made to protect - say - a pedophile who is a Lord? Who decides?  Just cant seem to get my head around the decision -making process.
I guess the 'establishment' does not exist - it is a virtual cloud - similar to that of the electron properties.

It is a cloud which encompasses key figures - who are they? Political donators? Peers ? as you say - the billionaires and the media moguls.  
I would love to see a TV doc on this subject...

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by aquila on 01.08.14 12:43

@HelenMeg wrote:
@Woofer wrote:@ Helenmeg - Interesting question indeed - " Can anyone tell me just who is the 'establishment'? "

It would have to be the billionaires, the media moguls, the bankers - I doubt very much its the politicians and judges - they are just puppets with dodgey proclivities so can be blackmailed.  All thats required of a politician is a lust for fame and power and an ability to lie with impunity.  Not all of them of course, but the good ones will find it tough to get anywhere.  Someone made a remark here that Putin described Westminster as a nest of paedophiles and I`m sure he`s right.
Thanks Woofer. For SOMEONE to influence and order the remit of Op GRANGE, or any other Operation  - I wonder if it gets passed down from pillar to post.... I imagine this circle of establishment figures sitting together and making the decision about which way to go.... Or is it a series of phone calls ?

How is a decision made to protect - say - a pedophile who is a Lord? Who decides?  Just cant seem to get my head around the decision -making process.
I guess the 'establishment' does not exist - it is a virtual cloud - similar to that of the electron properties.

It is a cloud which encompasses key figures - who are they? Political donators? Peers ? as you say - the billionaires and the media moguls.  
I would love to see a TV doc on this subject...
HelenMeg, it's no secret that you support Textusa's theory of swinging, you very often quote Textusa (you've done it today).

I'm most interested in why you believe in swinging to be a cause of covering up things and can't understand a cover up of any other sort.

Swinging would have been known to the Portuguese investigation surely? I lived abroad and let me tell you even olive trees have eyes.

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by HelenMeg on 01.08.14 12:50

@aquila wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@Woofer wrote:@ Helenmeg - Interesting question indeed - " Can anyone tell me just who is the 'establishment'? "

It would have to be the billionaires, the media moguls, the bankers - I doubt very much its the politicians and judges - they are just puppets with dodgey proclivities so can be blackmailed.  All thats required of a politician is a lust for fame and power and an ability to lie with impunity.  Not all of them of course, but the good ones will find it tough to get anywhere.  Someone made a remark here that Putin described Westminster as a nest of paedophiles and I`m sure he`s right.
Thanks Woofer. For SOMEONE to influence and order the remit of Op GRANGE, or any other Operation  - I wonder if it gets passed down from pillar to post.... I imagine this circle of establishment figures sitting together and making the decision about which way to go.... Or is it a series of phone calls ?

How is a decision made to protect - say - a pedophile who is a Lord? Who decides?  Just cant seem to get my head around the decision -making process.
I guess the 'establishment' does not exist - it is a virtual cloud - similar to that of the electron properties.

It is a cloud which encompasses key figures - who are they? Political donators? Peers ? as you say - the billionaires and the media moguls.  
I would love to see a TV doc on this subject...
HelenMeg, it's no secret that you support Textusa's theory of swinging, you very often quote Textusa (you've done it today).

I'm most interested in why you believe in swinging to be a cause of covering up things and can't understand a cover up of any other sort.

Swinging would have been known to the Portuguese investigation surely? I lived abroad and let me tell you even olive trees have eyes.
Hi Aquila

Just to clarify as you are slightly incorrect in your assertions about me!

I admire Textusa - I have yet to find a blogger / poster who supports assertions as well and meticulously as she.  There are some fantastic posts on her site - not just those which relate specifically to swinging theory - but that assess the entire situation from a global viewpoint.     I frequently visit her site and find new gems. 
I dont have to support the swinging theory to admire her.

I did used to wholeheartedly at one stage support the swinging theory.  Now, I happen to believe that that may have been one aspect of the reason why the group were at PdL that week. I also believe that nothingh is black and white and also think there may have been financial reasons - investment opportunities within the Algarve (specifally that area with is golf courses etc) that were being exploited by UK business men. I am pretty open minded as to  what was going on that week and remain interested in everyone's views.

I am like everyone else - I dont know !!!  I wish I did ... at the moment I am more interested in the strategies used by those in the UK intent on directing the investigation.

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Woofer on 01.08.14 16:57

Don`t know why I forgot to state the most obvious establishment beings, the royal family, who reign at the pinnacle and will always be protected at all costs.

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by HelenMeg on 01.08.14 17:06

@Woofer wrote:Don`t know why I forgot to state the most obvious establishment beings, the royal family, who reign at the pinnacle and will always be protected at all costs.
Aha! yes - me too I forgot to include them also! Perhaps at the heart!

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by aquila on 01.08.14 21:09

@HelenMeg wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@Woofer wrote:@ Helenmeg - Interesting question indeed - " Can anyone tell me just who is the 'establishment'? "

It would have to be the billionaires, the media moguls, the bankers - I doubt very much its the politicians and judges - they are just puppets with dodgey proclivities so can be blackmailed.  All thats required of a politician is a lust for fame and power and an ability to lie with impunity.  Not all of them of course, but the good ones will find it tough to get anywhere.  Someone made a remark here that Putin described Westminster as a nest of paedophiles and I`m sure he`s right.
Thanks Woofer. For SOMEONE to influence and order the remit of Op GRANGE, or any other Operation  - I wonder if it gets passed down from pillar to post.... I imagine this circle of establishment figures sitting together and making the decision about which way to go.... Or is it a series of phone calls ?

How is a decision made to protect - say - a pedophile who is a Lord? Who decides?  Just cant seem to get my head around the decision -making process.
I guess the 'establishment' does not exist - it is a virtual cloud - similar to that of the electron properties.

It is a cloud which encompasses key figures - who are they? Political donators? Peers ? as you say - the billionaires and the media moguls.  
I would love to see a TV doc on this subject...
HelenMeg, it's no secret that you support Textusa's theory of swinging, you very often quote Textusa (you've done it today).

I'm most interested in why you believe in swinging to be a cause of covering up things and can't understand a cover up of any other sort.

Swinging would have been known to the Portuguese investigation surely? I lived abroad and let me tell you even olive trees have eyes.
Hi Aquila

Just to clarify as you are slightly incorrect in your assertions about me!

I admire Textusa - I have yet to find a blogger / poster who supports assertions as well and meticulously as she.  There are some fantastic posts on her site - not just those which relate specifically to swinging theory - but that assess the entire situation from a global viewpoint.     I frequently visit her site and find new gems. 
I dont have to support the swinging theory to admire her.

I did used to wholeheartedly at one stage support the swinging theory.  Now, I happen to believe that that may have been one aspect of the reason why the group were at PdL that week. I also believe that nothingh is black and white and also think there may have been financial reasons - investment opportunities within the Algarve (specifally that area with is golf courses etc) that were being exploited by UK business men. I am pretty open minded as to  what was going on that week and remain interested in everyone's views.

I am like everyone else - I dont know !!!  I wish I did ... at the moment I am more interested in the strategies used by those in the UK intent on directing the investigation.
To me, and this is only my opinion so I'm not asking anyone to agree with it, if swinging were going on it would be known by even the gardeners and chambermaids - not a lot gets past them - and would have been devoured by the press both in Portugal and UK. Yet nothing has been made of this. It's unlikely that the press would miss the opportunity to report something salacious (even if it's not true!). CdM would have been in there like a shot and as far as I'm aware no-one can slap a D notice/injunction on a Portuguese newspaper.

After seven years, the loss of jobs in PDL and the relentless slurring of Portugal and the Portuguese it would be odd to think that not a single worker/local would have contacted the press to say that swinging was going on and at least the Portuguese press to report it.

This is where I have a problem with a cover up being made on the basis of swinging.

I'm like you in that I'm interested in those in UK intent on directing the investigation.

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Justformaddie on 01.08.14 21:32

Very good point Aquila, anything like that would've got out years ago IMO  agree

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by HelenMeg on 01.08.14 21:35

@aquila wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@Woofer wrote:@ Helenmeg - Interesting question indeed - " Can anyone tell me just who is the 'establishment'? "

It would have to be the billionaires, the media moguls, the bankers - I doubt very much its the politicians and judges - they are just puppets with dodgey proclivities so can be blackmailed.  All thats required of a politician is a lust for fame and power and an ability to lie with impunity.  Not all of them of course, but the good ones will find it tough to get anywhere.  Someone made a remark here that Putin described Westminster as a nest of paedophiles and I`m sure he`s right.
Thanks Woofer. For SOMEONE to influence and order the remit of Op GRANGE, or any other Operation  - I wonder if it gets passed down from pillar to post.... I imagine this circle of establishment figures sitting together and making the decision about which way to go.... Or is it a series of phone calls ?

How is a decision made to protect - say - a pedophile who is a Lord? Who decides?  Just cant seem to get my head around the decision -making process.
I guess the 'establishment' does not exist - it is a virtual cloud - similar to that of the electron properties.

It is a cloud which encompasses key figures - who are they? Political donators? Peers ? as you say - the billionaires and the media moguls.  
I would love to see a TV doc on this subject...
HelenMeg, it's no secret that you support Textusa's theory of swinging, you very often quote Textusa (you've done it today).

I'm most interested in why you believe in swinging to be a cause of covering up things and can't understand a cover up of any other sort.

Swinging would have been known to the Portuguese investigation surely? I lived abroad and let me tell you even olive trees have eyes.
Hi Aquila

Just to clarify as you are slightly incorrect in your assertions about me!

I admire Textusa - I have yet to find a blogger / poster who supports assertions as well and meticulously as she.  There are some fantastic posts on her site - not just those which relate specifically to swinging theory - but that assess the entire situation from a global viewpoint.     I frequently visit her site and find new gems. 
I dont have to support the swinging theory to admire her.

I did used to wholeheartedly at one stage support the swinging theory.  Now, I happen to believe that that may have been one aspect of the reason why the group were at PdL that week. I also believe that nothingh is black and white and also think there may have been financial reasons - investment opportunities within the Algarve (specifally that area with is golf courses etc) that were being exploited by UK business men. I am pretty open minded as to  what was going on that week and remain interested in everyone's views.

I am like everyone else - I dont know !!!  I wish I did ... at the moment I am more interested in the strategies used by those in the UK intent on directing the investigation.
To me, and this is only my opinion so I'm not asking anyone to agree with it, if swinging were going on it would be known by even the gardeners and chambermaids - not a lot gets past them - and would have been devoured by the press both in Portugal and UK. Yet nothing has been made of this. It's unlikely that the press would miss the opportunity to report something salacious (even if it's not true!). CdM would have been in there like a shot and as far as I'm aware no-one can slap a D notice/injunction on a Portuguese newspaper.

After seven years, the loss of jobs in PDL and the relentless slurring of Portugal and the Portuguese it would be odd to think that not a single worker/local would have contacted the press to say that swinging was going on and at least the Portuguese press to report it.

This is where I have a problem with a cover up being made on the basis of swinging.

I'm like you in that I'm interested in those in UK intent on directing the investigation.
Hi
Yes... I just dont know...having had lengthy conversations about this tonight -  the establishment directing this will involve media moguls / key civil servants  / rich business men ... why would they wish to have interfered with justice? I think certain people have pulled favours from the likes of these  'figures in establishment'.  Who was at PdL that week staying in OC ? Film people (Jez 'n Bridge) plus P E (Stemcor Board) plus doctors plus god knows who else.  I dont know why they all congregated there that week  - but it was for some reason. Some VIP has pulled a favour as he / she / they dont want their activities exposed - which a proper investigation of MBM would have led to.  Things are now coming to the head - especially if the Mc Canns are suing The Times as reported. They may be suing the hand that has fed them...

Its interesting and I wish I had a better understanding. As for whether its swinging they're hiding - for the moment I'm not too bothered - I just think of it as some activity which they dont want exposing...

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by aquila on 01.08.14 22:14

@HelenMeg wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@Woofer wrote:@ Helenmeg - Interesting question indeed - " Can anyone tell me just who is the 'establishment'? "

It would have to be the billionaires, the media moguls, the bankers - I doubt very much its the politicians and judges - they are just puppets with dodgey proclivities so can be blackmailed.  All thats required of a politician is a lust for fame and power and an ability to lie with impunity.  Not all of them of course, but the good ones will find it tough to get anywhere.  Someone made a remark here that Putin described Westminster as a nest of paedophiles and I`m sure he`s right.
Thanks Woofer. For SOMEONE to influence and order the remit of Op GRANGE, or any other Operation  - I wonder if it gets passed down from pillar to post.... I imagine this circle of establishment figures sitting together and making the decision about which way to go.... Or is it a series of phone calls ?

How is a decision made to protect - say - a pedophile who is a Lord? Who decides?  Just cant seem to get my head around the decision -making process.
I guess the 'establishment' does not exist - it is a virtual cloud - similar to that of the electron properties.

It is a cloud which encompasses key figures - who are they? Political donators? Peers ? as you say - the billionaires and the media moguls.  
I would love to see a TV doc on this subject...
HelenMeg, it's no secret that you support Textusa's theory of swinging, you very often quote Textusa (you've done it today).

I'm most interested in why you believe in swinging to be a cause of covering up things and can't understand a cover up of any other sort.

Swinging would have been known to the Portuguese investigation surely? I lived abroad and let me tell you even olive trees have eyes.
Hi Aquila

Just to clarify as you are slightly incorrect in your assertions about me!

I admire Textusa - I have yet to find a blogger / poster who supports assertions as well and meticulously as she.  There are some fantastic posts on her site - not just those which relate specifically to swinging theory - but that assess the entire situation from a global viewpoint.     I frequently visit her site and find new gems. 
I dont have to support the swinging theory to admire her.

I did used to wholeheartedly at one stage support the swinging theory.  Now, I happen to believe that that may have been one aspect of the reason why the group were at PdL that week. I also believe that nothingh is black and white and also think there may have been financial reasons - investment opportunities within the Algarve (specifally that area with is golf courses etc) that were being exploited by UK business men. I am pretty open minded as to  what was going on that week and remain interested in everyone's views.

I am like everyone else - I dont know !!!  I wish I did ... at the moment I am more interested in the strategies used by those in the UK intent on directing the investigation.
To me, and this is only my opinion so I'm not asking anyone to agree with it, if swinging were going on it would be known by even the gardeners and chambermaids - not a lot gets past them - and would have been devoured by the press both in Portugal and UK. Yet nothing has been made of this. It's unlikely that the press would miss the opportunity to report something salacious (even if it's not true!). CdM would have been in there like a shot and as far as I'm aware no-one can slap a D notice/injunction on a Portuguese newspaper.

After seven years, the loss of jobs in PDL and the relentless slurring of Portugal and the Portuguese it would be odd to think that not a single worker/local would have contacted the press to say that swinging was going on and at least the Portuguese press to report it.

This is where I have a problem with a cover up being made on the basis of swinging.

I'm like you in that I'm interested in those in UK intent on directing the investigation.
Hi
Yes... I just dont know...having had lengthy conversations about this tonight -  the establishment directing this will involve media moguls / key civil servants  / rich business men ... why would they wish to have interfered with justice? I think certain people have pulled favours from the likes of these  'figures in establishment'.  Who was at PdL that week staying in OC ? Film people (Jez 'n Bridge) plus P E (Stemcor Board) plus doctors plus god knows who else.  I dont know why they all congregated there that week  - but it was for some reason. Some VIP has pulled a favour as he / she / they dont want their activities exposed - which a proper investigation of MBM would have led to.  Things are now coming to the head - especially if the Mc Canns are suing The Times as reported. They may be suing the hand that has fed them...

Its interesting and I wish I had a better understanding. As for whether its swinging they're hiding - for the moment I'm not too bothered - I just think of it as some activity which they dont want exposing...
HelenMeg,

Firstly, there is no absolute confirmation that the McCanns are suing the Times. You say 'as reported' I haven't seen anything other than a screenshot from Twitter, if you know anything concrete then please post it.

Secondly, you have in the past totally rejected the idea of the McCanns being in PDL on a pharmaceutical company freebie.

Thirdly, you have totally supported (quite fervently) the swinging theory.

Fourthly, why do you think things are coming to a head?

As far as I can see and staying true to the topic, I don't see anything 'coming to a head' especially the Lisbon Trial. I can't see a ruling happening this year.

If you take a look at the Lisbon Trial, the convenient timings of SY's intervention 'revelation moment' followed by 'we're here, so don't you worry, the Professionals are here', 'we're working collaboratively', 'we've brought in the dogs and the diggers and the gpr', 'take a look at our photos', 'see our helicopter reccie' etc then you have to ask yourself what is it about the Lisbon Trial that is so irksome to prompt SY to do this at particular times? Then you have to ask yourself why Portuguese authorities (the big high-ups) have allowed this to happen.


















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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Justformaddie on 02.08.14 0:51

Mirror app again, says for the first time sy are putting a price on the protection of the royal family to the point prince Charles has intervened. Is this saying protection too pricey for royals? So what about the mcs? Could a helpful poster link? Ta

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by Claire25 on 02.08.14 7:59

Prince Charles 'intervenes in changes' to elite Scotland Yard protection detail for the Royal Family

Regardless, a Scotland Yard shake-up which removes back-up officer support for the Royal and Diplomatic Protection Group went ahead as planned

PA
Intervention: Prince Charles
Prince Charles has reportedly intervened in changes to the elite protection detail for the Royal Family.
But the Scotland Yard shake-up which removes back-up officer support for[url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/prince charles, prince of wales]the Royal[/url] and Diplomatic Protection Group went ahead as planned.
A source said: “The personal protection officers have been told effectively it is over to them to sort it out.
“Obviously it raises serious concern about the effectiveness of the department and will have an impact on the safety of the royal family.

"For the first time it seems Scotland Yard is putting a price on protecting the royal family. In the past this was not even a consideration — security came first.”
[url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/metropolitan police]The Met[/url] denied the changes were part of money-saving plans to strip back its budget by a fifth as part of Government funding cuts.
Scotland Yard said: “There has been some re-organisation to ensure we deliver the most effective policing service to all of London – including[url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/royal family]those protected by the RDPG[/url] .”
A spokesman said “threat and risk levels” had been taken into account.
The annual bill for royal protection is kept secret, however is believed to be more than £100million.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-charles-intervenes-changes-elite-3950290

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Re: WHO STILL THINKS THIS IS A WHITEWASH?

Post by galena on 02.08.14 10:02

@Praiaaa wrote:This has probably been said before, but what else could AR have said?
I am sceptical, maybe even cynical,  about the Met and SY, but if the parents were suspects, AR could hardly have said they were. And if he said 'no comment', or fudged it, then this would have been as obvious as saying they were - people would have drawn that conclusion.
Would make sense to say upfront the parents are not suspects, before that question was asked ( as it would be) so as not to have to lie on the hoof - much easier to lie in a prepared statement than on the spot when questioned.
And when later it is shown, if it, that it was a lie, so what?
How else could he have dealt with it?

 I don't remember any such statement being made on the first Crimewatch programme the McCanns appeared  on when speculation was at fever pitch (though that may be a failure of memory on my part). When I heard Redwood say it this time I took it to mean that the McCanns would be protected whatever the outcome of the enquiry.  Why would he worry about silence leading many to infer that the parents WERE suspects if the eventual aim to have them arrested?


Not sure why this thread is entitled ' do you still believe etc etc' because I'm not aware of anything that has happened on the case so far that has contradicted Redwood's initial statement - the digging was apparently a waste of time, the McCanns were not arrested the moment they set foot on Portugal as some had speculated they might be and suspicion has been cast on the usual cast of shady characters hanging about PDL.  I tend to think  that Tony is right and Redwood's remit is to investigate  an abduction - nothing else.  Sure it's possible to cast a positive spin on the investigation, but you can actually cast a positive spin on any investigation if you assume that events you are seeing are all a smokescreen, while frenzied attempts to achieve your desired outcome are taking place behind the scenes.

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