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The well

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The well

Post by PeterMac on 16.07.14 19:06

remember the famous well, into which Madleine had 'definitely', probably, possibly, or NOT - been thrown, or fallen, or something ?

This is Len Port's report

http://algarvenewswatch.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/the-mccann-case-well-well-well.html?spref=tw
Wednesday, July 16, 2014

The McCann case: Well, well, well.....
With two futile weeks of ground searching and the questioning of four unlikely suspects still fresh in the memory, a former Scotland Yard commander had a new idea. In a report in the Mail on Sunday he urged detectives to examine an abandoned well “just 875 yards from the apartment where Madeleine McCann vanished.”
The newspaper carried an aerial view of the location and also a close-up photo of the supposed well.
“The Mail on Sunday has established that the uncovered shaft is on scrubland used as a campsite by Roma Gypsies – and has been overlooked by Portuguese police,” according to the paper.
The aerial view indicated that the well was located on land behind the property of a well-known resident of Praia da Luz. He told us that in his 28 years of living there he had never seen Roma Gypsies camping in the area.
But the Mail on Sunday’s claim could not be lightly dismissed because the former commander had served 27 years with the Metropolitan Police and as Commander of Specialist Operations had dealt with serious crime, from murder to rape and human trafficking.
“It [the well] is clearly known to locals and possibly to local criminals as a place to discard evidence from petty crime, such as handbags and other unwanted stolen items,” said the ex-commander.
The local homeowner was bemused by this. “Before they tossed the handbags into the well, I hope the Roma Gypsies checked to see if they were Gucci,” he said.
Of course the ex-commander was not just talking about petty crime. He quickly came to his main point: “Whoever abducted Madeleine knew the local streets, alleyways and scrubland and used that knowledge to avoid detection.”
Not one to shirk a challenge even on a formidably hot summer’s day, our source in Luz went to check out the ex-commander’s hunch.
The first problem was a two-metre high fence. With difficulty he managed to find a hole in the wire only to be confronted by a six-metre wide boundary of thick vegetation. Eventually he emerged prickled, sweating and swearing into a recently mowed hay field.
“I felt relieved that if I were now to be attacked by irate Roma bandits, at least I could see them coming and hopefully make a hasty retreat,” said our intrepid explorer.
“I walked all over the hay field but was not able to discover a well. I was relieved to be able to return to the gap in the fence and depart with no loss of either wallet or handbag.”
Asked about a circular object that can be seen in the middle of the area on Google Earth, our source in Luz  said, “it could be an alien landing pad, but more likely a  flat round area for threshing corn. It’s certainly not the well shown in the paper.”
He concluded with dismay that tourism-dependent Luz had once again been portrayed as a lawless place – and certainly not the sort of place to go on holiday.
If Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood and his team decide to take the ex-commander’s advice and go searching wells, they had better come prepared for a long stay. There are many hundreds of wells dotted all over the Algarve. Fortunately, most of the others are fairly easy to find.
Meanwhile, the “Stop McCann Circus” street signs are still in place in Luz.


So the Mail On Sunday have provided us with FALSE INFORMATION in the form of a false photo.
To match the forged Last Photo, on assumes.

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Re: The well

Post by sharonl on 16.07.14 21:22

Typical, the UK press just make it up as they go along and expect the public to forget what they reported yesterday and swallow todays lies.

It's not the first time that the media have used bogus photographs and bogus witnesses in this case.

Isn't there something in the code of conduct that prevents journalists from deliberately lying, manipulating and deceiving the public?

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Re: The well

Post by Guest on 16.07.14 21:38

The sad (if not terrifying) aspect is sharonl that the public accept these lies, manipulation and deceptions without question.   

A bit like the old saying "a photograph never lies"  !!  What!!   We know, know, they can and do now.   

The general public unfortunately think if it's in black and white it must be true.    I don't know how it is possible to overcome this

 general perception and inform people - make them aware of the truth.

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Re: The well

Post by sharonl on 16.07.14 22:04

At least the daily mail are taking comments on this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681763/875-yards-Maddie-disappeared-abandoned-police-failed-search.html


Edited to say, no they are not - they have closed the comments

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Re: The well

Post by Guest on 16.07.14 22:09


They aren't taking comments anymore now though.

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Re: The well

Post by PeterMac on 16.07.14 22:11

Not any more I think

Just for posterity and before it is whooshed


Caption reads
Location: An aerial photograph showing the McCanns' apartment in Praia da Luz, the abandoned well and the search area, which does not include the well

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Re: The well

Post by sharonl on 16.07.14 22:21

No comments then, perhaps we should make the editors aware of their "error".  Their replies could be very interesting.

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Re: The well

Post by canada12 on 16.07.14 22:23

Here's a Google satellite shot of that area. You can zoom in. There's a large round structure there, at the place indicated in the newspaper picture, but it doesn't look like an abandoned well to me. It looks like a covered round concrete reservoir, or something similar.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@37.0941383,-8.7261429,609m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

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Re: The well

Post by sharonl on 16.07.14 22:43

@canada12 wrote:Here's a Google satellite shot of that area. You can zoom in. There's a large round structure there, at the place indicated in the newspaper picture, but it doesn't look like an abandoned well to me. It looks like a covered round concrete reservoir, or something similar.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@37.0941383,-8.7261429,609m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en


This?

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Location of the well...

Post by missbeetle on 16.07.14 22:46

@canada12 wrote:Here's a Google satellite shot of that area. You can zoom in. There's a large round structure there, at the place indicated in the newspaper picture, but it doesn't look like an abandoned well to me. It looks like a covered round concrete reservoir, or something similar.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@37.0941383,-8.7261429,609m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Thank you for that link, Canada12.

If you follow the pipes coming downward from the concrete reservoir, they lead to what looks like a well to me.

"

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Re: The well

Post by Guest on 16.07.14 22:47

Is that it at 37.094474, -8.724823?  Go immediately right from the circular pad, cutting across the rectangular field boundaries, just up a bit the next circular thing you see - is it in the middle of that?  You have to enlarge GE to the max though to see the structure.


There is a main track up to it which may make sense, and a couple of smaller ones.  And trees by it which are shown in the picture?


And some rectangular blocks off the main concrete slab which seem to match up?

Not sure ...

All imo

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Re: The well

Post by Guest on 16.07.14 22:51

@canada12 wrote:Here's a Google satellite shot of that area. You can zoom in. There's a large round structure there, at the place indicated in the newspaper picture, but it doesn't look like an abandoned well to me. It looks like a covered round concrete reservoir, or something similar.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@37.0941383,-8.7261429,609m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

I quite agree canada12, I think it looks like a possible reservoir.   A well (as the one the Mail has in the picture) would show - if at all - as a tiny thing. 
Also, sensibly,  why would a well be so far from the property??   I wouldn't fancy filling a bucket if it was that far from the house.  (jmo)

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Oh well...

Post by missbeetle on 16.07.14 23:05

BlackCatBoogie wrote:Is that it at 37.094474, -8.724823?  Go immediately right from the circular pad, cutting across the rectangular field boundaries, just up a bit the next circular thing you see - is it in the middle of that?  You have to enlarge GE to the max though to see the structure.


There is a main track up to it which may make sense, and a couple of smaller ones.  And trees by it which are shown in the picture?


And some rectangular blocks off the main concrete slab which seem to match up?

Not sure ...

All imo

"

I was looking at the bottom right of this picture.

Rectangular thing could be a pumphouse?

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Re: The well

Post by Brian Griffin on 16.07.14 23:11

Why do you all bother? She's not going to be there!

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Ah well...

Post by missbeetle on 16.07.14 23:17

BlackCatBoogie wrote:Is that it at 37.094474, -8.724823?  Go immediately right from the circular pad, cutting across the rectangular field boundaries, just up a bit the next circular thing you see - is it in the middle of that?  You have to enlarge GE to the max though to see the structure.


There is a main track up to it which may make sense, and a couple of smaller ones.  And trees by it which are shown in the picture?


And some rectangular blocks off the main concrete slab which seem to match up?

Not sure ...

All imo

"

However, top right hand corner (is this where you were thinking?) looks like a possible site for an abandoned well.

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Re: The well

Post by Guest on 16.07.14 23:33

@missbeetle wrote:
BlackCatBoogie wrote:Is that it at 37.094474, -8.724823?  Go immediately right from the circular pad, cutting across the rectangular field boundaries, just up a bit the next circular thing you see - is it in the middle of that?  You have to enlarge GE to the max though to see the structure.


There is a main track up to it which may make sense, and a couple of smaller ones.  And trees by it which are shown in the picture?


And some rectangular blocks off the main concrete slab which seem to match up?

Not sure ...

All imo

"

However, top right hand corner (is this where you were thinking?) looks like a possible site for an abandoned well.
No not there missbeetle. Sorry it won't let me post a picture.  If you put 37.094475, -8.724831 into GE search box and zoom to the max then you should see what I am looking at.
All imo.

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All's well...

Post by missbeetle on 16.07.14 23:51

"

This one? You could well be right, BCB.

It has got some thick vegetation around it.

I don't know why the reporter had to go yomping through a hole in the fence.

Could not the landowner have directed him to the site of the old well?

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Re: The well

Post by Guest on 17.07.14 0:03

Yes that's what I meant missbeetle. Could be it, does look like a water wheel in a water course anyway.
Difficult to believe it wouldn't have been searched at the time if it is so easily visable on aerial maps. 

All imo, nothing stated as fact

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Re: The well

Post by Sonmi-451 on 17.07.14 3:57

Sorry to go on and on MissB... Please understand I am sceptical about you and your postings...}


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Re: The well

Post by MrsC on 17.07.14 5:43

@sharonl wrote:No comments then, perhaps we should make the editors aware of their "error".  Their replies could be very interesting.


I posted this the other day:

Just noticed this on the DM website: Clarifications and corrections - If you wish to report an inaccuracy, please write to the Readers’ Editor, Daily Mail, Northcliffe House, 2 Derry Street, London W8 5tt or email corrections@dailymail.co.uk.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article-2682725/Clarifications-corrections.html#ixzz37SvDerYT


Just thought it could come in very handy any time the DM run a McCann story.

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Re: The well

Post by Guest on 17.07.14 8:30

BlackCatBoogie wrote:Is that it at 37.094474, -8.724823?  Go immediately right from the circular pad, cutting across the rectangular field boundaries, just up a bit the next circular thing you see - is it in the middle of that?  You have to enlarge GE to the max though to see the structure.


There is a main track up to it which may make sense, and a couple of smaller ones.  And trees by it which are shown in the picture?


And some rectangular blocks off the main concrete slab which seem to match up?

Not sure ...

All imo
Well as this thread now seems to be disrupted I still stand by my original comment in response to PM's original post. If you zoom into the above GE reference then you can see what looks like a water wheel in a chamber - which looks something like the well in the DM picture.  I am not sure that the one in the DM picture is is even a well, looks more like a water wheel with cogs to me - I can't quite see what it is tbh.  Whatever it is, it looks like water is/was running underground, there do not appear to be any open water courses from GE -so the water wheel is being turned from below? So underground water courses/springs in that area?


You have to zoom into the maximum magnification in GE to see it. It is indeed the one contained in missbeetles post, I could not paste a picture last night. 

It may or may not be the well in question.  It is not in the search area indicated in the DM article (not that that means much) but not far away.

I am not sure of the whys and wherefores or the signigicance of the well in the DM article, I am just adding what I happened to find on GE during a brief look. The structure was very easy to find on GE (and locals would surely have knowlege of it), so if it is something with underground chambers or courses I can't believe it wasn't searched in the beginning. 

Maybe someone else could take a look.

All in my own opinion nothing stated as fact.

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Re: The well

Post by joyce1938 on 17.07.14 10:05

Have a thought ,could the pipes be running to a septic tank or soakaway .and yes a pumping may be used too   joyce1938

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Re: The well

Post by Sonmi-451 on 17.07.14 19:49

Apologies if I somehow disrupted this thread.

Sorry, but I was sceptical when I saw different pics being posted from all over the place. 
You gave the coordinates so I couldn't see why anyone would be introducing confusion. However, I accept it may have been user unfamiliarity with Google Earth and map coordinates and not the maliciousness I at first assumed.

In the spirit of making amends may I therefore suggest that people may have different latitude/longitude settings on their Google Earth and that's why they can't find it?  The coordinates you gave, "37.094474, -8.724823"  are 'Decimal Degrees'. Other people may be using the more traditional 'Degrees, Minutes, Seconds' settings.  If they are indeed using DMS then the coordinates become:  37 05' 40.10''  and 8 43' 29.36'' .

Users can toggle which coordinates they use by going to TOOLS  then OPTIONS then the tab headed 3D. (n.b. For those that don't often use Google Earth the latitude and longitude are displayed at the bottom of the Google Earth image... and I find an easy way to navigate around is to make sure North is at the top and then use your arrow keys on the keyboard to move about... 

Personally I'd also recommend hitting the radio button besides "do not automatically tilt while zooming' on the 'Navigation' tab whilst you're there. Though that's just a personal preference. 

I hope I've  helped get your thread back on track. Apologies again.

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Re: The well

Post by Guest on 17.07.14 21:22

No problem from me Sonmi-451 - thanks for the additional info re the grid co-ordinates, am sure anyone interested will now be able to track it down. Didn't realise there were two different sets of co-ordinates, sorry for any confusion.
No need to apologise, can easily see that it looked like a mess around  big grin.  Never a good idea to be fiddling around with GE co-ordinates late at night after a few ciders.
Thanks again for your reply.

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Re: The well

Post by kimHager on 17.07.14 23:09

Im definately not good with maps but saw a pic og the well in one of the papers. It did have a water wheel. I think she isnt in a well UNLESS she wandered off but highly unlikely

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