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Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

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Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Woofer on 14.07.14 14:08

Was wondering, if someone was an abused child or had information on paedophiles - who could you trust to tell. It seems there is no one.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by sar on 14.07.14 14:20

[the wind whistles, tumble weeds blows by]

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Cristobell on 14.07.14 14:44

@Woofer wrote:Was wondering, if someone was an abused child or had information on paedophiles - who could you trust to tell. It seems there is no one.
Scary thought Woofer.

I think abused children fall into two distinct categories.  Those who are abused within the home, and can we please include physical abuse in this, because its hurts just as bad, and those abused by those with 'power and control' over them. 

The first group, those abused in the home and by people known to them, is by far the largest, and where the catastrophic damage lies.

The second group are quite distinct.  They are vulnerable, they do not have parents or adults to speak or act on their behalf.  Quite often they are damaged to the extent that they have limited communication skills, they have withdrawn into themselves.  They will always have come from dysfunctional families, and therefore they will have very blurred boundaries where behaviour is concerned, that of themselves, and that of adults.  They are nothing like the cherubic poster of Madeleine McCann, they are unattractive, troubled kids with appalling behaviour and they are stereotyped as liars, before they even open their mouths. These are the kids being abused, because no-one will believe them.  Sadly, they will also be vulnerable to manipulation.

Who would you tell?  Gawd knows Woofer.  In my opinion, those who go into any sort of caring profession should undergo some sort of psychological evaluation.  It is not only children who are abused, it is literally anyone who is vulnerable, that includes vast numbers of the elderly and the disabled.  Sadly cruel and sadistic people are often drawn to professions where they have power over other people.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by kimHager on 14.07.14 16:18

I think trust is so hard especially when abuse is or has occured. Unfortunately its often the ones you trust that is abusive.children so often suffer silently and as a mother it breaks my heart every time i hear of children or elderly or pets being abused. I cant even imagine hurting someone and taking pleasure out of that.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 14.07.14 16:44

@Woofer wrote:Was wondering, if someone was an abused child or had information on paedophiles - who could you trust to tell. It seems there is no one.

Outside ones immediate circle, presuming none of them is hiding a dark secret, I don't think one can automatically "trust" anyone.

What I want to know is abuse on the increase or is it just because of increased information sharing that it seems that way? It seems like there is a perverted scumbag on every street corner these days Sad

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Guest on 14.07.14 17:02

It's probably no more prevalent than it was say 50 years ago but it's easier (in some ways) for it to be discussed.

There were always what were called dirty old men around, making a nuisance of themselves in public places like parks and cinemas. Incest in families is nothing new either.

I really don't know what I would have done as a child if there was an abuser in the family. We were brought up to respect adults and I don't think that I would have been believed.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by aquila on 14.07.14 17:31

You certainly can't trust the catholic church that's for sure. The Pope (through the people who control the Vatican) is now spouting facts and figures and 'apologising' to victims. Nice PR stunt but that's all it is imo.

You most definitely can't trust the UK government (the government that's run by the secret service and the darker 'civil' service). That's an absolute given.

I'm a 'survivor' of abuse by a paedophile. There are a few of us survivors on this forum. There's one thing we all have in common and that is even though we are adults the moment we dwell on what happened to us we are the precise age that the offence took place.

I don't know if Tony is online but if he is I hope he can post up the link to the Irish man who was so abused whilst in care and then abused by the catholic church and every other agency. I apologise for not having the link.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Guest on 14.07.14 17:37


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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by aquila on 14.07.14 17:48

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:This might be the one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i44dv1KMPsM
Thank you NFWTD. That's the one.

If anyone thinks anything has changed then they are sadly mistaken. If anyone thinks there is a new broom sweeping clean then they are also sadly mistaken.

Please watch the video.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Guest on 14.07.14 17:52

@aquila wrote:You certainly can't trust the catholic church that's for sure. The Pope (through the people who control the Vatican) is now spouting facts and figures and 'apologising' to victims. Nice PR stunt but that's all it is imo.

You most definitely can't trust the UK government (the government that's run by the secret service and the darker 'civil' service). That's an absolute given.

I'm a 'survivor' of abuse by a paedophile. There are a few of us survivors on this forum. There's one thing we all have in common and that is even though we are adults the moment we dwell on what happened to us we are the precise age that the offence took place.

I don't know if Tony is online but if he is I hope he can post up the link to the Irish man who was so abused whilst in care and then abused by the catholic church and every other agency. I apologise for not having the link.

True, Aquila.  Even though we are anonymous here, I admire your courage in talking about this subject.  If I may say so, I think you are a perceptive and astute poster.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Woofer on 14.07.14 18:24

Thanks for your replies folks.  It doesn`t seem there is anyone you could trust.

The question came up because I was discussing the likelihood of any abused people getting justice with my neighbour and it seemed to us there is no authority anywhere you could go to whether it be to Police, Childline, the Church, one`s GP, one`s MP.  The only people you could trust would be those who had no authority to do anything about it.

Thanks for the link to the video Aquila. At least he has a voice and is making damned sure he`s listened to. Thousands don`t have his voice.   Did I see Colm O`Gorman on that panel - the fellow that wrote `Beyond Belief`?

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by aquila on 14.07.14 18:37

@Woofer wrote:Thanks for your replies folks.  It doesn`t seem there is anyone you could trust.

The question came up because I was discussing the likelihood of any abused people getting justice with my neighbour and it seemed to us there is no authority anywhere you could go to whether it be to Police, Childline, the Church, one`s GP, one`s MP.  The only people you could trust would be those who had no authority to do anything about it.

Thanks for the link to the video Aquila. At least he has a voice and is making damned sure he`s listened to. Thousands don`t have his voice.   Did I see Colm O`Gorman on that panel - the fellow that wrote `Beyond Belief`?
Everything is a game of ping pong. It's called 'progress' apparently.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by End on 14.07.14 19:01

Aquila with your experience behind you, what age would you advise a parent to warn a child about such perverts? And how would you go about it?

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by aquila on 14.07.14 19:20

@End wrote:Aquila with your experience behind you, what age would you advise a parent to warn a child about such perverts? And how would you go about it?
What a pointless question.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by End on 14.07.14 20:14

@aquila wrote:
@End wrote:Aquila with your experience behind you, what age would you advise a parent to warn a child about such perverts? And how would you go about it?
What a pointless question.

Thabk you. You have such a nice way with words.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by sharonl on 14.07.14 20:19

@Woofer wrote:Was wondering, if someone was an abused child or had information on paedophiles - who could you trust to tell. It seems there is no one.



This situation is much worse for children in care homes, especially when the people running the homes turn a blind eye to what's happening.  They have no where to run, no-one to turn to, it must be horrific.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Guest on 14.07.14 22:50

It's a difficult question End. How should one tell children that some people they meet might have some ulterior motive for befriending them?

I cringe now at the memory of the language I used but I told my son that if a "naughty man" came up and asked him to go with him, he must not go but instead run for help.

That was accepted okay but it wasn't till later that I found out that he thought I meant that the man would actually say that he was naughty!

Perhaps other parents would like to share their thoughts on how they dealt with this subject.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by inspirespirit on 15.07.14 8:03

It's a very difficult subject to broach with your children, but if you make it an 'open' conversation in the home, so they know it is not a taboo subject and can talk to you at any time.  Let them know from a very young age that their 'privates', are just that.... private, and no-one else is allowed to touch them.  Give them a code word and make it really simple, so that if they are ever approached and told that 'mummy sent me to collect you', they ask for the codeword.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by tigger on 15.07.14 8:34

@inspirespirit wrote:It's a very difficult subject to broach with your children, but if you make it an 'open' conversation in the home, so they know it is not a taboo subject and can talk to you at any time.  Let them know from a very young age that their 'privates', are just that.... private, and no-one else is allowed to touch them.  Give them a code word and make it really simple, so that if they are ever approached and told that 'mummy sent me to collect you', they ask for the codeword.

That's a very good idea. As an illustration: when I was about 7/8  my mother told me not to go into the park near the school as there were 'child enticers' there. It's the best translation I can give. That is the  literal meaning of  'kinderlokkers'  .
Now enticing in Dutch is connected to the gesture of crooking an index finger and moving it to and fro in the 'come here' gesture.
I  still went into the park because I reasoned that if I saw a man making that gesture I'd simply not obey. So if a nice-looking man had offered me sweets or a ride in his car I might have gone.

All this to illustrate how difficult it is to get a message across to a child, these were the days when we walked to school, in the dark in winter. Everybody did, no parent felt obliged to drop their children off or take them on the  bike or in the car.
One hour's exercise a day plus intense playtime in lunchtime, skipping, running, playing tag.
You usually walked back home in the company of classmates and played outside after school as well.
Can't remember a single obese child.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Guest on 15.07.14 9:08

I would most certainly trust the Dutch Judiciary

A man who abducted my small son, telling him he knew a field of flowers his mother would be happy to receive, then walked him a 200 yards on a busy railway track; then took him down the bank and lowered his own pants first, thereby enabling my son to run off and reach home across a busy motorway, this man was sentenced by a Dutch Court on the single testimony of my son. And his own admission to the police who hauled him in within half an hour after the facts. And his previous record of two similar incidents.

This man was the husband of the child's nanny, a man he had known, liked and grown up with for three years.

More to the point: the Judiciary came down upon him like a ton of bricks, never questioning my sons statements even though he was only six years of age at the time.

So, to answer your question: if you're lucky, and live in the Netherlands, you'll be okay. I guess.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by tigger on 15.07.14 11:36

@Portia wrote:I would most certainly trust the Dutch Judiciary

A man who abducted my small son, telling him he knew a field of flowers his mother would be happy to receive, then walked him a 200 yards on a busy railway track; then took him down the bank and lowered his own pants first, thereby enabling my son to run off and reach home across a busy motorway, this man was sentenced by a Dutch Court on the single testimony of my son. And his own admission to the police who hauled him in within half an hour after the facts. And his previous record of two similar incidents.

This man was the husband of the child's nanny, a man he had known, liked and grown up with for three years.

More to the point: the Judiciary came down upon him like a ton of bricks, never questioning my sons statements even though he was only six years of age at the time.

So, to answer your question: if you're lucky, and live in the Netherlands, you'll be okay. I guess.
It also doesn't get splashed all over the papers.  Thus allowing the relevant family and the victim some much needed privacy. A lot of these cases are conducted in camera.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Snifferdog on 15.07.14 14:19

Portia, how awful! And it could have ended in a really bad situation had he not had the presence to run away. There seems to be so many people who have had bad experience with paedophilia. I wonder if there is anyone out there who does not personally know of at least one person who has been a victim. Children who are sexually abused have their childhood ripped away from them, and that can never be regained. A paedophile, no matter what age, deserves to be severely punished, no matter what age. Being old does not guarantee sainthood, innocence, remorse, or any excuse for remaining unpunished. S/he, stealing and ruining a childs youth, deserves to have their latter days taken and ruined in turn. Justice for the victim, I say.
I would also like to add: Contrary to what Christobell wrote earlier about panic and scare tactics re children possibly being attacked in parks by paedophiles...I believe it to be very possible, as happened to a little boy in our area, lured away by a man with the promise of an ice cream, but instead was abused and murdered. His body was later found hidden in the park. I do agree that the powers that be are not above using anything to censor the internet and social media, and will likely twist the very real scenario of large scale child abuse to suit themselves.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Guest on 15.07.14 14:49

@Snifferdog wrote:Portia, how awful! And it could have ended in a really bad situation had he not had the presence to run away. There seems to be so many people who have had bad experience with paedophilia. I wonder if there is anyone out there who does not personally know of at least one person who has been a victim. Children who are sexually abused have their childhood ripped away from them, and that can never be regained. A paedophile, no matter what age, deserves to be severely punished, no matter what age. Being old does not guarantee sainthood, innocence, remorse, or any excuse for remaining unpunished. S/he, stealing and ruining a childs youth, deserves to have their latter days taken and ruined in turn. Justice for the victim, I say.
I would also like to add: Contrary to what Christobell wrote earlier about panic and scare tactics re children possibly being attacked in parks by paedophiles...I believe it to be very possible, as happened to a little boy in our area, lured away by a man with the promise of an ice cream, but instead was abused and murdered. His body was later found hidden in the park. I do agree that the powers that be are not above using anything to censor the internet and social media, and will likely twist the very real scenario of large scale child abuse to suit themselves.

Thank you for your kind words

Even writing my message made my blood boil again. 

The police were marvelously understanding, right from the start, letting me sit in on the hearing of my son; in fact letting me conduct part of the hearing myself in their presence and taking all the time my son needed to clear up what happened. No one scared him, no one told him his life had hung in the balance: the policemen and I, learning about the exploration of the railway tracks, just looked at each other and stayed put. He was asked to stick to the facts, and he did. I'm still very proud of him.

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Re: Is there ANYONE you can trust ?

Post by Snifferdog on 15.07.14 17:52

And so you should be, and your son, equally proud of you!

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