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Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Guest on 14.07.14 19:52

Châtelaine wrote:Call me stupid, but I've never found solid proof for the washed curtains.
Anyone?

Not that's important. There's many more important indications / proof. I'd only want to avoid, for the matter of a solid case, forum myths. So, again, if anyone has proof, please produce. It would only strengthen the case.
Sorry Synes, Chatelaine I should not have remarked on the curtains without a source.
I always thought that the curtains and surrounding wall had been washed, it's just such a bizarre thing to do on holiday with three children it stuck in my mind.

I have found this so far from Joana Morais (under the section Blood on the Curtains):-

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html

But obviously unless it is in the PJ files themselves then it could still be a forum myth.
I will try and find the PJ source later this evening, only that would confirm it.

All in my own opinion, nothing stated as fact

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.07.14 21:22

I have been thinking of ways of shortening and summarisng the 'narrative' to date.

The shortest I can get is:

Thursday 3 May 2007: "Madeleine was abducted by Tannerman and we must find Tannerman"

This stayed in place for over 6 years and 5 months, though Tannerman was manifestly a fabrication to all those who had eyes to see, and was finally buried by the McCann Team themselves in August 2009 (nearly 5 years ago) when Edgar said Tanner might have seen a woman carrying a child, not a man.

Then came CrimeWatch on  

Monday 14 October 2013: When DCI Redwood said: "Madeleine was abducted by Tannerman Smithman and we must find Tannerman Smithman".

Although that is not strictly correct, as Redwood's more detailed current position would appear to be:

1. Madeleine was abducted ('as per my remit')

2. The abduction took place between 9.10pm and 10.00pm

3. It could well have been Smithman but it might have been someone else - we need to eliminate Smithman if it wasn't him

4. It's possible she was dead before she 'left the apartment' (TRANSLATION: She was murdered in the apartment by the abductor) 

5. With my careful analysis of the three strands of the investigation, 'which has never been done before', a few dozen people are potentially in the frame, I'm gradually narrowing it down to just a few or maybe one smelly bin-man in particular, give me a few more million quid and a bit more time, a chance to do a few more very public searches, ask a few more people 253 rogatory questions, painstakingly analyse thousands more cell-phones etc. and eventually my 38-strong team will come up with the answer.

+++++

I will add a prediction:

I think Grange will announce their conclusions some time before February 2015 (3 months before the General Election) and that Bernard Hogan-Howe will announce at the same time that Grange is to be wound up. That's if BHH is still in the job by then, as he surely can't survive many more corruption scandals

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by plebgate on 14.07.14 21:52

@LittleMissy wrote:How very depressing this is looking :/ As upsy daisy rightly states, british intelligence rumoured to be best in the world & THIS CROCK OF SHIT IS WHAT THEY COME UP WITH ??!!!!! Beggars belief, it really is shocking. Surely the investigation should start at the beginning......the beginning being 3rd May 2007 & the glaring discrepancies of those present (Tapas cronies). How is it possible for british authorities to seemingly ignore the blatent discrepancies & ever changing statements of Mccans & Tapas crew ????
After the debacle of the whitewash of Hillsborough,  & disgust when truth finally came out (only after years of campaigning by the bereaved families), it really does beggar belief that british establishment are going to embark on deleted of this magnatude.

Hello everyone btw*waves* I am a new member but have been informing myself on this matter for some time now, have read extensively(thanks Tony Bennet for Mccan Files & everything I have learnt there) Wink
Waves back to you too.    Wink

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by endgame on 14.07.14 21:54

@Tony Bennett wrote:I have been thinking of ways of shortening and summarisng the 'narrative' to date.

The shortest I can get is:

Thursday 3 May 2007: "Madeleine was abducted by Tannerman and we must find Tannerman"

This stayed in place for over 6 years and 5 months, though Tannerman was manifestly a fabrication to all those who had eyes to see, and was finally buried by the McCann Team themselves in August 2009 (nearly 5 years ago) when Edgar said Tanner might have seen a woman carrying a child, not a man.

Then came CrimeWatch on  

Monday 14 October 2013: When DCI Redwood said: "Madeleine was abducted by Tannerman Smithman and we must find Tannerman Smithman".

Although that is not strictly correct, as Redwood's more detailed current position would appear to be:

1. Madeleine was abducted ('as per my remit')

2. The abduction took place between 9.10pm and 10.00pm

3. It could well have been Smithman but it might have been someone else - we need to eliminate Smithman if it wasn't him

4. It's possible she was dead before she 'left the apartment' (TRANSLATION: She was murdered in the apartment by the abductor) 

5. With my careful analysis of the three strands of the investigation, 'which has never been done before', a few dozen people are potentially in the frame, I'm gradually narrowing it down to just a few or maybe one smelly bin-man in particular, give me a few more million quid and a bit more time, a chance to do a few more very public searches, ask a few more people 253 rogatory questions, painstakingly analyse thousands more cell-phones etc. and eventually my 38-strong team will come up with the answer.

+++++

I will add a prediction:

I think Grange will announce their conclusions some time before February 2015 (3 months before the General Election) and that Bernard Hogan-Howe will announce at the same time that Grange is to be wound up. That's if BHH is still in the job by then, as he surely can't survive many more corruption scandals
Ah Tony, I see they've fooled you too and you have utterly failed to grasp the master plan that lies behind the facade.  He has played the most brilliant game with all of us, pretending all along that he was a corrupt and incompetent fool when in fact, as will be revealed, he was the most briliant detective the world has ever known. He's taken you in right and proper. [Serious irony alert!]

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by mouse on 14.07.14 22:36

laugh - He had me going........Maybe not!

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by nglfi on 15.07.14 8:32

@lj wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:
Neat, tidy, parents exonerated, case closed, detectives reassigned.

Fund closed.
I bet the funds will continue to live on: to help us find Madeleine's body, to help us defeat those who slander her name.
I suspect the fund will continue as a more general 'help find missing children' fund, and then it's up to the public whether they want to question why it is a fund and not a charity. I think if the pair are never charged,  unfortunately they won't simply go away. They'll keep pushing to be in the limelight, even if Madeleine's body is found. They are so astoundingly unashamed with everything else, why not?

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Justformaddie on 15.07.14 9:26

This can't happen, police records show cadaver was found behind the sofa, in the wardrobe, on cuddlecat, red child's top, km trousers, key card and from the door of the scenic. Tiny blood traces on under the tiles in the apartment and fluid in the boot of the car. Don't know how to do links, but have read the files like most. The apartment was checked and no other body had ever been in that apartment afaik. If police really want to know what happened, then IMO these points need to get looked at again. Back to the VERY beginning, thoroughly, could sort this out. Portugal has had enough and rightly so, but I don't think they'd be happy for it to disappear with a burglar gone wrong, they want the truth too and so do I. All IMO  sad

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Tony Bennett on 15.07.14 9:40

@Justformaddie wrote:This can't happen, police records show cadaver was found behind the sofa, in the wardrobe, on cuddlecat, red child's top, km trousers, key card and from the door of the scenic.

According to Dr Kate McCann, this is purely because of the 'conscious or unconscious signals of the handler' ('madeleine' by Dr Kate McCann, quote from p. 250) - an attack on the professional integrity and judgment of Martin Grime. Dr Gerald McCann's considered view, of course, is that all of these sniffer dogs are 'incredibly unreliable' anyway. In any case, the McCanns add that without corroboration these alerts are not evidence at all 

Tiny blood traces on under the tiles in the apartment and fluid in the boot of the car.

According to the McCanns and the FSS, these blood traces and fluids 'could have come from anyone'.

I think I have done full justice to the opinions of the McCanns with my observations above.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Justformaddie on 15.07.14 9:53

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:This can't happen, police records show cadaver was found behind the sofa, in the wardrobe, on cuddlecat, red child's top, km trousers, key card and from the door of the scenic.

According to Dr Kate McCann, this is purely because of the 'conscious or unconscious signals of the handler' ('madeleine' by Dr Kate McCann, quote from p. 250) - an attack on the professional integrity and judgment of Martin Grime. Dr Gerald McCann's considered view, of course, is that all of these sniffer dogs are 'incredibly unreliable' anyway. In any case, the McCanns add that without corroboration these alerts are not evidence at all 

Tiny blood traces on under the tiles in the apartment and fluid in the boot of the car.

According to the McCanns and the FSS, these blood traces and fluids 'could have come from anyone'.

I think I have done full justice to the opinions of the McCanns with my observations above.
I now feel like sh@t, are we fighting a losing battle? 
Just wanna thank you for mentioning me in the first page, felt great and you are an amazing strong man for all you done and still do for maddie. We all gotta keep fighting for her.  howdy

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by worriedmum on 15.07.14 10:13

''We all gotta keep fighting for her.  ''


And just remember, the truth never goes away, however long it may take.  thumbsup

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Justformaddie on 15.07.14 10:29

@worriedmum wrote:''We all gotta keep fighting for her.  ''


And just remember, the truth never goes away, however long it may take.  thumbsup
Your right, it's too late and too much of the truth is known, my hope is with Martin Grime, Eddie and Keela because they're the ones whose work is always been praised. Only the mcs discredit them because they've no other choice, as gm mentioning the other day at the trial, IMO they're getting worried now.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by missmar1 on 15.07.14 10:33

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:This can't happen, police records show cadaver was found behind the sofa, in the wardrobe, on cuddlecat, red child's top, km trousers, key card and from the door of the scenic.

According to Dr Kate McCann, this is purely because of the 'conscious or unconscious signals of the handler' ('madeleine' by Dr Kate McCann, quote from p. 250) - an attack on the professional integrity and judgment of Martin Grime. Dr Gerald McCann's considered view, of course, is that all of these sniffer dogs are 'incredibly unreliable' anyway. In any case, the McCanns add that without corroboration these alerts are not evidence at all 

Tiny blood traces on under the tiles in the apartment and fluid in the boot of the car.

According to the McCanns and the FSS, these blood traces and fluids 'could have come from anyone'.

I think I have done full justice to the opinions of the McCanns with my observations above.


You would think the Mccann's had something to hide the way they keep disregarding the dogs alerts.  

They do not seem at all bothered by the fact that trained dogs alerted their handler to certain clothes and areas in and around apartment 5a.   I would imagine most parents would have been horrified and devastated to hear that news ?    Instead, the Mccann's have done everything possible to rubbish the dogs findings - now why would they do that ?  Are they so blinded with hope that their daughter has not been harmed ?  Or are they trying to rubbish the dogs for their own agenda ?   Whatever the reason, they are not appearing to accept the fact that these trained dogs detected blood and cadaver.


As far as I am aware, the Mccann's are not trained dog experts so why they have been "allowed" to rubbish these trained dogs to the public without challenge from any official quarters or dog handlers is a puzzle to me because there are quite a few cases ( Without a body ) where dogs were used and a conviction has resulted .....Adrian Prout springs to mind .

Imo, the Mccann's have done themselves no favours by trying to rubbish trained dogs, in fact, I would say they have drawn more attention to people asking WHY  ?

 All my opinion only.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Justformaddie on 15.07.14 10:47

If it was only one part of the apartment they alerted to, fair enough. But numerous places and items? What worse still, these weren't pj dogs, these are dogs from uk! IMO

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by flaxyard on 15.07.14 11:04

Our cause is not helped by KM's long standing friend and former fund administrator/director Esther McVey MP joining Cameron's inner sanctum. her rise from GMTV presenter to now has been meteoric - could not possibly say on here why I think that might be.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Tony Bennett on 15.07.14 11:07

@flaxyard wrote:Our cause is not helped by KM's long standing friend and former fund administrator/director Esther McVey MP joining Cameron's inner sanctum. Her rise from GMTV presenter to now has been meteoric - could not possibly say on here why I think that might be.
Talking of 'meteoric rises'...Rebekah Brooks...

Similar 'modus operandi' for getting to the top?

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by mysterion on 15.07.14 11:12

She is also a privy counsellor FOR LIFE.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Tony Bennett on 15.07.14 11:22

@mysterion wrote:She is also a privy counsellor FOR LIFE.
Full list of members of the Privy Council here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_members_of_the_British_Privy_Council

They are sworn to secrecy about what goes on in these meetings - and they meet in times of national emergency

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Bishop Brennan on 15.07.14 11:23

The new narrative gets an outing in the Portuguese Press. They call it "framing" which suggests that as ever the Portuguese aren't buying it.

Full translation on Joana Morais' site: http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/07/phone-calls-and-hairs-frame-suspects.html


Here in the UK though, as with any lie, the more often it is repeated, the more accepted it becomes. Somehow people readjust their BS detectors and stop questioning just how ridiculous a particular narrative actually is. The core story "Burglary went wrong" was implanted in Crimewatch and is repeated at every turn by all associated with the case. They still have the sex-offending 'smellyman' on the subs bench, warmed up and ready to go - but for now it looks like they are going to close this story with the 3 burglars.

Note: The complete lack of ANY evidence, the pointless digs, and the recent SY ILR interviews have not dented the narrative one jot...


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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Justformaddie on 15.07.14 11:26

@Bishop Brennan wrote:The new narrative gets an outing in the Portuguese Press.  They call it "framing" which suggests that as ever the Portuguese aren't buying it.  

Full translation on Joana Morais' site:  http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/07/phone-calls-and-hairs-frame-suspects.html


Here in the UK though, as with any lie, the more often it is repeated, the more accepted it becomes.  Somehow people readjust their BS detectors and stop questioning just how ridiculous a particular narrative actually is.   The core story "Burglary went wrong" was implanted in Crimewatch and is repeated at every turn by all associated with the case.  They still have the sex-offending 'smellyman' on the subs bench, warmed up and ready to go - but for now it looks like they are going to close this story with the 3 burglars.  

Note: The complete lack of ANY evidence, the pointless digs, and the recent SY ILR interviews have not dented the narrative one jot...  

Are these the three burglars they interviewed? I thought nothing was gained from them?

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Guest on 15.07.14 11:27

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@mysterion wrote:She is also a privy counsellor FOR LIFE.
Full list of members of the Privy Council here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_members_of_the_British_Privy_Council

They are sworn to secrecy about what goes on in these meetings - and they meet in times of national emergency


She certainly has done very well in such a short space of time..........


Esther Louise McVey (born 24 October 1967) is a British Conservative Party politician who has been the Member of Parliament (MP) for Wirral West since 2010, and has served as Minister of State for Employment since 2013. She was previously a television presenter, businesswoman and the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Disabled People.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther_McVey



More here if anyone wants to post about her so as not to derail this thread.........


http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t7667-esther-mcvey-set-to-win-senior-role-in-cameron-s-cabinet-reshuffle?highlight=Esther+McVey

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Bishop Brennan on 15.07.14 11:48

@Justformaddie wrote:
Are these the three burglars they interviewed? I thought nothing was gained from them?

Correct. They are the very ones: the schizophrenic, the van-driver and the homeless teenager. All three photographed hiding their faces, all three interviewed, and as far as we know nothing of note gained. But in the new narrative, that doesn't matter. What matters are the photographs and the fact that all 3 are now Arguidos - and will remain so until the case is solved or shelved. Many in the UK believe that they were arrested (thanks to BHH's famous "arrests coming soon" interview + associated "prime suspects" headlines).

Coming on the back of the high-profile digs, the images and their association have successfully implanted the new narrative in the UK public's unconscious. Remember that few look at the detail of the articles, never mind forums such as this. The photos, the headlines and the news are all that count.

Credit to Amaral who called it early. It's frustrating for us. Imagine what it must be like for him...!

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Tony Bennett on 15.07.14 12:01

@Bishop Brennan wrote:The new narrative gets an outing in the Portuguese Press.  They call it "framing" which suggests that as ever the Portuguese aren't buying it.  

Full translation on Joana Morais' site:  http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/07/phone-calls-and-hairs-frame-suspects.html

Here in the UK though, as with any lie, the more often it is repeated, the more accepted it becomes.  

This is based on the theories of Adolf Hitler's psychologist, propagandist, media manipulator and right-hand man, Josef Goebbels, who said:

"If you're going to tell a lie, make it a big one"

and

"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will eventually believe it".


Somehow people readjust their BS detectors and stop questioning just how ridiculous a particular narrative actually is.  

See above, Goebbels

The core story "Burglary went wrong" was implanted in Crimewatch and is repeated at every turn by all associated with the case.  They still have the sex-offending 'smellyman' on the subs bench, warmed up and ready to go - but for now it looks like they are going to close this story with the 3 burglars.

I think this is a bit like how the soaps work, like Coronation Street and Eastenders. The producers, editors and chief scriptwriters get together periodically to plan the story lines - 'The Narrative' - several months ahead, always having several alternative options, just in case someone (mentioning no names, Michael le Vell) suddenly becomes unavailable for one reason or another.

I picture people like Redwood, his former boss-of-Jill-Dando-fame Hamish Campbell, Clarence Mitchell, the boss of MI5 and a top civil servant in the Home Office meeting up from time to time to discuss who will be named as the abductor, and roughly hen the announcement will be made. When they've finally agreed, a plan they'll meet in secret with Prime Minister David Cameron, who will decide precisely when the announcement will be made, probably in a week woith many other major news stories.  

Note: The complete lack of ANY evidence, the pointless digs, and the recent SY ILR interviews have not dented the narrative one jot...

Agreed - and of course all the three Burglar-men and Smelly bin-man could, most conveniently, also be Smithman - how very convenient that an Irish family actually SAW the abductor*  



[ * or did they? ]

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by HelenMeg on 15.07.14 12:14

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:
Are these the three burglars they interviewed? I thought nothing was gained from them?

Correct.  They are the very ones: the schizophrenic, the van-driver and the homeless teenager.  All three photographed hiding their faces, all three interviewed, and as far as we know nothing of note gained.  But in the new narrative, that doesn't matter.  What matters are the photographs and the fact that all 3 are now Arguidos - and will remain so until the case is solved or shelved.  Many in the UK believe that they were arrested (thanks to BHH's famous "arrests coming soon" interview + associated "prime suspects" headlines).  

Coming on the back of the high-profile digs, the images and their association have successfully implanted the new narrative in the UK public's unconscious.  Remember that few look at the detail of the articles, never mind forums such as this.  The photos, the headlines and the news are all that count.  

Credit to Amaral who called it early.  It's frustrating for us.  Imagine what it must be like for him...!  
It doesn't inspire any optimism whatsoever. Still, as you rightly point out, what is frustrating for us, is almost unimaginable for GA. i AM INTENSELY FRUSTRATED AS AN OBSERVER but in his position I dont know how I'd be feeling. I just hope..
sometimes surprising twists and turns occur - also the world is watching this case. Not everyone will let it drop

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Bishop Brennan on 15.07.14 12:42

@HelenMeg wrote:
It doesn't inspire any optimism whatsoever. Still, as you rightly point out, what is frustrating for us, is almost unimaginable for GA. i AM INTENSELY FRUSTRATED AS AN OBSERVER but in his position I dont know how I'd be feeling. I just hope..
sometimes surprising twists and turns occur - also the world is watching this case. Not everyone will let it drop

Stranger things have happened. For as long as the truth is out there, then the McCanns can never fully relax. They may be able to escape prosecution, but to live your whole life in this way is no life at all. Not only did they lose a lovely daughter, they may have condemned themselves to a lifetime of deception - with the public, with their friends, and soon with their two remaining children. They may not ever go to jail, but they are prisoners of the decisions they made that night, and will suffer from them for ever. There are really no winners in a case like this (apart perhaps from the lawyers).


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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by missmar1 on 15.07.14 13:16

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:
Are these the three burglars they interviewed? I thought nothing was gained from them?

Correct.  They are the very ones: the schizophrenic, the van-driver and the homeless teenager.  All three photographed hiding their faces, all three interviewed, and as far as we know nothing of note gained.  But in the new narrative, that doesn't matter.  What matters are the photographs and the fact that all 3 are now Arguidos - and will remain so until the case is solved or shelved.  Many in the UK believe that they were arrested (thanks to BHH's famous "arrests coming soon" interview + associated "prime suspects" headlines).  

Coming on the back of the high-profile digs, the images and their association have successfully implanted the new narrative in the UK public's unconscious.  Remember that few look at the detail of the articles, never mind forums such as this.  The photos, the headlines and the news are all that count.  

Credit to Amaral who called it early.  It's frustrating for us.  Imagine what it must be like for him...!  


I am sorry but I cant see any way in which this can be pinned on a burglary gone wrong -  are we to believe Madeleine had woken up and disturbed a burglar who supposedly then decided to kill her and go to the kitchen/cupboards  to look for cleaning agents with the purpose of cleaning away the evidence  ? 

Due to the time checks , there is no way a burglar would have had the time to kill a child and clean up behind him    -  did he bring cleaning agents and cloth with him then  or did he look around to see what he could use to clean up with ?   Did he also take the cleaning materials he must have used in the apartment with him while he was also carrying Madeleine  ? 

 Why would a burglar stop his burglary to kill a child,  clean up leaving no evidence,  take the cleaning materials he used but no booty that he supposedly came for and then risk being seen carrying a dead child from the apartment ?

How on earth the above possibilty could be spun is beyond me and most peoples thinking I would imagine.

That one will never work !   Or will it ?

All my opinion only.

Eta,  I can see a scenario where a disturbed burglar may panic and kill in haste before making his getaway - but no way can I see a panicked disturbed burglar ( Already on a time line due to " regular checking " by the parents )  staying behind to thoroughly clean up and then carry a dead body in plain sight  - no way !

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