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LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by PeterMac on 11.07.14 12:19

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
So obvious the Judge is wondering why they picked on Goncalo`s book.
So obviously the Judge is WONDERING WHY they ONLY picked on GA's book.

And also obvious by extension, is that the judge has prepared herself, with evidence, and a very full consideration of the background
and is not merely relying on what the lawyers tell her.
We tend in the UK to think that our Accusatorial system is the way the rest of the world works.
It isn't.
She is demonstrating par excellence, the inquisitorial system, where she needs to know everything,
She knows about books of which Gerry, probably correctly, says he had no knowledge.

Well done. Clever Judge.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 11.07.14 12:24

@PeterMac wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
So obvious the Judge is wondering why they picked on Goncalo`s book.
So obviously the Judge is WONDERING WHY they ONLY picked on GA's book.

And also obvious by extension, is that the judge has prepared herself, with evidence, and a very full consideration of the background
and is not merely relying on what the lawyers tell her.
We tend in the UK to think that our Accusatorial system is the way the rest of the world works.
It isn't.
She is demonstrating par excellence, the inquisitorial system, where she needs to know everything,
She knows about books of which Gerry, probably correctly, says he had no knowledge.

Well done.  Clever Judge.  

I don't believe for a minute, with their MMU (aka Kevin) they have not read the other books. I don't believe it for a second.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by ShuBob on 11.07.14 12:28

Neither do I, Smokeandmirrors.

At least 2 of those books were published BEFORE Amaral's and then one after. There's no justification for not knowing about them in detail IMO.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Woofer on 11.07.14 12:32

@PeterMac wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
So obvious the Judge is wondering why they picked on Goncalo`s book.
So obviously the Judge is WONDERING WHY they ONLY picked on GA's book.

And also obvious by extension, is that the judge has prepared herself, with evidence, and a very full consideration of the background
and is not merely relying on what the lawyers tell her.
We tend in the UK to think that our Accusatorial system is the way the rest of the world works.
It isn't.
She is demonstrating par excellence, the inquisitorial system, where she needs to know everything,
She knows about books of which Gerry, probably correctly, says he had no knowledge.

Well done.  Clever Judge.  

And .........  it is massively relevant and important.

Sometimes I get too bogged down in all this and can`t see the wood for the trees but when I stand back - its obvious  ....  I reckon that says it all.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by jozi on 11.07.14 12:41

@ShuBob wrote:Neither do I, Smokeandmirrors.

At least 2 of those books were published BEFORE Amaral's and then one after. There's no justification for not knowing about them in detail IMO.
I seem to remember one of the authors of one of the books offered to pay the Mcs some kind of fees....Sorry cannot remember who though !

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Cristobell on 11.07.14 12:49

In my opinion the McCanns have always been on dodgy ground because public opinion changed when they were made aguidos.  The Judge tried to quantify it by asking Kate what was worse, loss of a child, being made arguidos, and the book and documentary - in that order of priority. 

The damage from the book for example, cannot possibly compare with being made arguidos, which unequivocallly told the world they were suspects in their daughter's disappearance and the McCanns' claim that they were cleared does not stand up to scrutiny. 

In addition, there followed the release of the PJ files - a full account of the police investigation that again pointed the finger at the parents, and contained no more and no less, than GA's book. 

So how is the Judge expected to quantify the damages?  The McCanns are pinning all their distress on Goncalo Amaral, which is clearly ridiculous.  It is not for GA and the documentary makers to compensate the parents for the loss of their daughter, the police making them arguidos and the release of the police files.

Realistically their pain and suffering comes from:

1.   Loss of their daughter
2.   Being made Arguidos
3.   Release of police files
4.   GA's book and documentary

Their loss of public support lies squarely with their being made arguidos in September 2008 - and they have the facts and figures to support this, by way of the drop in donations to the Fund. 

Taking the figure £1m, how would it be split between the above 4 heads of damage?  That is, which caused the greatest amount of pain?  Most of us would go for number 1, but the McCanns are going for number 4. 

As a legal secretary (UK), I remember when damages were being apportioned for personal injury claims, there was an element entitled 'Contributory Negligence' - this related to how much the Plaintiff (Claimant) contributed to their own misfortune.  Ie. there may have been steps he/she could have taken to avoid the accident, or indeed ways in which they themselves were 'the authors of their own misfortune'.  It was a phrase I typed often as I usually worked for defending solicitors. 

I don't know if this would form any part of a libel claim, although the UK newspapers the McCanns sued, did say that the McCanns could have taken their complaint to the IPCC, rather than allow the headlines to continue before launching libel actions for monetary compensation.

Does anyone know whether 'Contributory Negligence' will apply in the McCann' libel case in Portugal?

Of course it will only come into play if the McCanns do receive an award, but imo, the McCanns did not provide sufficient credible evidence to show that No. 4, the release of GA's book, distressed them more, or did more harm to their reputation than being made Arguidos, which doesn't seem to have bothered them at all.

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Libel Case

Post by Jauna Loca on 11.07.14 13:08

@Woofer wrote:
@Praiaaa wrote:Interesting that it is the judge asking those questions.
Give me hope.

So obvious the Judge is wondering why they picked on Goncalo`s book.
Apparantly Dr. Amaral's book is the only one which contains the Gaspar Statements.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Woofer on 11.07.14 13:11

@jozi wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Neither do I, Smokeandmirrors.

At least 2 of those books were published BEFORE Amaral's and then one after. There's no justification for not knowing about them in detail IMO.
I seem to remember one of the authors of one of the books offered to pay the Mcs some kind of fees....Sorry cannot remember who though !

Wasn`t that Danny Collins? Book was called Vanished.

There was another one called Faked Abduction - can`t remember who it was by.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Miraflores on 11.07.14 13:13

Apparantly Dr. Amaral's book is the only one which contains the Gaspar Statements.
Then why aren't Gerry McCann and David Payne suing the Gaspars?

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by jozi on 11.07.14 13:22

M think they can as tiraflores wrote:
Apparantly Dr. Amaral's book is the only one which contains the Gaspar Statements.
Then why aren't Gerry McCann and David Payne suing the Gaspars?
I don't think they can sue the Gaspers as this statement was given to the Police but with the files being released its in the public !!! Only in my opinion .

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by SuspiciousMinds on 11.07.14 13:27

@Jauna Loca wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
@Praiaaa wrote:Interesting that it is the judge asking those questions.
Give me hope.

So obvious the Judge is wondering why they picked on Goncalo`s book.
Apparantly Dr. Amaral's book is the only one which contains the Gaspar Statements.

Did the Gaspar statements appear in the documentary?

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by jozi on 11.07.14 13:29

@Woofer wrote:
@jozi wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Neither do I, Smokeandmirrors.

At least 2 of those books were published BEFORE Amaral's and then one after. There's no justification for not knowing about them in detail IMO.
I seem to remember one of the authors of one of the books offered to pay the Mcs some kind of fees....Sorry cannot remember who though !

Wasn`t that Danny Collins? Book was called Vanished.

There was another one called Faked Abduction - can`t remember who it was by.
You could be right Woofer I know one of them ironed it out before it was published and a fee or commission was obtained by the Mcs. We all were questioning it at the time ? It seemed that if you give a percentage of the profits to the Mcs you can publish your book !!! All IMO only.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by aiyoyo on 11.07.14 13:35

There's no more questions and the Judge is about to dismiss the plaintiff when GMC claims that he has something to say.
The judge says that in a civil trial the parties aren't allowed to spontaneous depositions. But she allows him: please do speak!
GMC says that he wants to make a comment about the dogs; he wants to make it clear that it is not a fact that they detected blood...
The judge interrupts him – The issue here isn't not to elucidate what actually happened. The perspective, in this trial, is to determine whether the book and the documentary affected the plaintiffs.
GMC – But the book mentions facts that aren't true.
The judge – The point isn't to establish whether things are true or not, this is not the issue. We want to know whether we are in the juridical remit of offence to persons. For this it's not necessary to know what the truth is. As a judge I'm not supposed to stand in for a criminal investigation.

And so it ended

The judge is very astute.  The book contains nothing new that wasn't already in the public domain.
If the mccanns did not feel aggrieved back then in 2007, meaning the negative news did not cause them anxiety depression and this and that, then why would same info in the book cause them any of those conditions they claimed?

Fresh news about Maddie's death and their involvement etc back in 2007 should have impacted them then, and not stale same news which Amaral's book is.
Even if both impact them, the negative emotion is not something new they can claim against the book, since the negative emotion pre-exists the book release.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Ashwarya on 11.07.14 13:43

I think all their problems stem from the fact that they are simply incapable of grasping that for any normal person the loss of a child would be an event of such chilling enormity and immeasurable grief that nothing else would matter.  Nothing would have kept them from a frantic search of the resort on the alleged night it happened, let alone the dark or needing to sleep!  Everything they have done since then has continued to be wrong but thanks to the British media the majority, who don't think for themselves, were fed the approved version and swallowed it hook, line and sinker.  No-one genuinely in the situation they claimed to find themselves in would give more than a passing thought to what the police or Mr Bennett or anyone else were saying.   Normal parents would always blame themselves anyway for such an event and would be overwhelmed with grief and fear for their child.  The judge in this case is clearly not star-struck by them (as Lord Leveson bizarrely appeared to be) and I hope very much that there will be a just conclusion to it all for the policeman whose only crime was his determination to find out what had happened to a small defenceless child.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Guest on 11.07.14 14:08

@Ashwarya wrote:I think all their problems stem from the fact that they are simply incapable of grasping that for any normal person the loss of a child would be an event of such chilling enormity and immeasurable grief that nothing else would matter.  Nothing would have kept them from a frantic search of the resort on the alleged night it happened, let alone the dark or needing to sleep!  Everything they have done since then has continued to be wrong but thanks to the British media the majority, who don't think for themselves, were fed the approved version and swallowed it hook, line and sinker.  No-one genuinely in the situation they claimed to find themselves in would give more than a passing thought to what the police or Mr Bennett or anyone else were saying.   Normal parents would always blame themselves anyway for such an event and would be overwhelmed with grief and fear for their child.  The judge in this case is clearly not star-struck by them (as Lord Leveson bizarrely appeared to be) and I hope very much that there will be a just conclusion to it all for the policeman whose only crime was his determination to find out what had happened to a small defenceless child.

Very well said Ashwarya.     thumbup

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by BlueBag on 11.07.14 14:09

@aiyoyo wrote:
The book contains nothing new that wasn't already in the public domain.

Precisely.

There  is no case against Amaral.

None.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by FH on 11.07.14 14:12

@jozi wrote:"GMC – But the book mentions facts that aren't true. duh

This statement is just bizarre, especially for a medic.

Entry to medical school in the UK is very competitive. Most students go into medicine directly from school and exam entry requirements to study medicine were high,  well before the MC's  went to medical school, so one has to assume they are both bright enough to  attain really good exam qualifications. The degree itself is quite challenging. The absolute key to good exam technique  is to read/listen to/analyze  the question being asked really carefully and then answer the question you were asked.

I come from a family containing  many medical professionals. In addition,  for a number of years I supervised medical students in chemistry labs.  I have generally found them to be very smart and very articulate, with very good verbal reasoning skills. Not all were personable, or likeable, but they all knew how to answer questions. They had to memorize vast quantities of facts  and accurately answer questions on it.  It was the skill that got them where they were all through their studies. 

So how is it that every time I read what the MC's have said, I REALLY struggle to understand how these 2 people (and the rest of the tapas lot) , who must have demonstrated a really good ability to answer questions in the past ,  could possibly have such a poor command of the English language now. Whether they are answering questions, or making statements, they often appear totally inarticulate. 

To me there is a huge discrepancy between their expected vs. actual verbal abilities. These are people who  REALLY  should be able to form an articulate, factual answer.

So why do they sometimes come across as complete morons? Is that what happens when a brain that is used to dealing in hard facts, tries to lie.
They don't seem able to string two words together coherently.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by aiyoyo on 11.07.14 14:44

@BlueBag wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
The book contains nothing new that wasn't already in the public domain.

Precisely.

There  is no case against Amaral.

None.

The case against Amaral is that the book caused damage to their emotional, private and social life.
However, Amaral's new lawyer got Kate to concede they were supported by Celebrity (Angelina Jolie for example), got invited to high society social function with royalty, and she even was made ambassador for Missing People, therefore no social destruction.

As for emotional damage, she admitted she did not suffer clinical depression.
Basically they have no leg to stand on.
It's just their vendetta against Amaral since other people have written books about their case and they were not sued.
Why target only Amaral, why not the state of Portugal and other authors?

The Judge made it clear their libelous contention is not under her remit.
Would mccanns dare file their libel case against Amaral under criminal offence?  We know the answer to that, they wont go near the stand, not for that nature of cross examination anyway.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by BlueBag on 11.07.14 14:47

@aiyoyo wrote:The case against Amaral is that the book caused damage to their emotional, private and social life.

Nope.

How can they prove that the book was the cause as opposed to all the prior stuff freely available on the internet?

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by aiyoyo on 11.07.14 14:59

@BlueBag wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:The case against Amaral is that the book caused damage to their emotional, private and social life.

Nope.

How can they prove that the book was the cause as opposed to all the prior stuff freely available on the internet?



Exactly! That's precisely the Defence stance and also what the Judge was trying to determine.

They can't attribute or apportion the cause of their negative emotion to the book.
They talked about MF campaign work; and the judge asked them whether MF pre-dates the book, for which kate and gerry gave different answer.
It shows the Judge is aware that negative materials about them were freely available in the public domain prior to Amaral's book.



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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by lj on 11.07.14 15:09

@onehand wrote:Just read the transcripts from the court day on the mccanfiles, but there is something that would count very heavily if this was a dutch civil court case.
 
The don’t read the book itself at all!
 
The trust on hearsay and gossip from people they know who give their private opinions and non authorized translations of snippets in newspapers.
 
They only read a non authorized translation of the book of Dr. Amaral on the internet.
 
This is what could be made out their answers to questions by the judge. So no accredited translator was used, so the base their emotions and damages to something that could be totally rubbish!
 
There is a very big difference in the use of a translation or transcription for study and discussion on a internet forum like this and use the same translation before a court as evidence.
 
There is never been an official translation published in english, under authorization by the publisher or the autor of the work: a verdade da mentira.
 
Also they don’t name the exact publication from which they believe they read the version of the book. So no one is able to comment on the quality of that work at all.
 
Translations, even authorized ones could be very disappointing, i did read a lot of translated works and later on or more and more before of text that was originally written in english, german or french. Sometimes nuances could not be translated to the full and the exact wording could be read in more then one way.
 
Even a abstract from a lawyer i won’t see as a substitution of the whole book, he is not automatically a accredited translator at all.
 
I think even a dumb and very stupid lawyer could use this to make rubbish of all what is stated as mental damages trough a book.
 
I think gm did know this, because he switches in his answers more over to the documentary, but also he did see this from the www, and there is no version available with a authorized translation or official undertitels also.
Besides this both works are under most european countries not legally obtainable copies under copyright acts.
 
I don’t know very much about portuguese law, but most countries have firm definitions about what is suffering and otherwise it would or could follow jurisprudence from other cases.
Normally there must be a certain amount of suffering, so not every amount of suffering would count as damages. In most european countries you also have to proof that you have damages from something, just feeling hurt is not enough.
Also most times it must be a degree of irreparable damages. Just being mad or sad is simply not enough.
I did not see any proof of damages beyond repair in what is stated in this process until now.
 

I hope the lawyers from the defendants get there teeth in this in their final words, but i am lost a bit of this works the same as under dutch law, over here the defendant also have the right of the last word or reply, before the judge could rule a verdict.

Great post, and great points. Maybe PeterM could forward this. The last word could be the last statements still to be made by the lawyers.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by tasprin on 11.07.14 15:11

@PeterMac wrote:This was an interesting exchange

Judge - Have you ever heard about a book written by Paulo Pereira Cristovão? ['A Estrela de Madeleine' (Madeleine's Star) pub. 2008]
Gerald McCann - Vaguely...

Judge - Have you ever heard about a book written by Manuel Catarino? ['A Culpa dos McCann' (The McCann's Guilt) pub. 2007]
Gerald McCann - I can't say I have no. I don't remember that name.

Judge - Have you ever heard about a book written by Hernâni Carvalho? ['Maddie 129' pub. 2007]
Gerald McCann - I know about Mr. Carvalho's comments in the press about Mr. Amaral's book.

Judge - But you never read the book?
Gerald McCann - No, I haven't.

Surely each of those books would be worth another million euros to them
Just as all the other thousands of people across the world who agree with TB's analysis - and say so - would be worth a third of each of their pensions.
So what is going on ?

The McCanns knew about the books, Clarence Mitchell has commented on each of them so Gerry McCann must be suffering from selective amnesia. Mitchell's main preoccupation seems to be how much money the authors have earned from the books. The McCanns are busy wiping the internet: a search on each of these books gets a ‘Some results may have been removed (EU right to be forgotten) message.

Judge - Have you ever heard about a book written by Paulo Pereira Cristovão? ['A Estrela de Madeleine' (Madeleine's Star) pub. 2008]
Gerald McCann - Vaguely...

A Estrela de Madeleine (Madeleine‘s Star) by Paulo Cristovao*
Police chief's tale of how Maddie was dumped at sea infuriates the McCanns
19 March 2008
But their spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said: 'It is a great pity that people still feel the need to profit out of Madeleine's disappearance. That is very distressing for Kate and Gerry. The efforts that people are putting into this kind of profiteering would be better spent helping the investigation to find Madeleine. If Mr Cristovao feels he has any information relevant to that search then we would ask him to help with that investigation. Beyond that we won't dignify these so-called books with a comment.' Cristovao said his book was 'pro-Portugal' and it contains thinly veiled criticism of Britain's political involvement in the case http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-176883205.html
* This message appeared when googling 'A Estrela de Madeleine’ by Paulo Cristovao: Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. Learn more How are you implementing the recent Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) decision on the right to be forgotten?
+++++++++++++++++

Judge - Have you ever heard about a book written by Hernâni Carvalho? ['Maddie 129' pub. 2007]
Gerald McCann - I know about Mr. Carvalho's comments in the press about Mr. Amaral's book. (ignored the Judge's question)
Judge - But you never read the book?
Gerald McCann - No, I haven't.

Maddie 129 by Hernani Carvalho*
Hernani Carvalho, author of Maddie 129 (a book), hosts Portugal’s “version of Crimewatch”. Says he: “If they were Portuguese they would be in jail by now. There are lots of people up in arms with the scandalously privileged treatment that was given to the McCanns. Any Portuguese couple in these circumstances would have been jailed a long time ago” The McCann’s spokesman Clarence Mitchell says: “That’s his point of view – we disagree. Kate and Gerry have not been given any special treatment” - From CNN (http://www.rcpedicoes.com/ver_Maddie129-(English-version).htm?lang=en) CLARENCE MITCHELL, MCCANN FAMILY SPOKESMAN: We think it's a great shame that anybody may be trying to make some money out of the situation. These books are being rushed out in time for Christmas and I think you can see perhaps the motive for them.
* This message appeared when googling 'Maddie 129 by Hernani Carvalho’: Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. Learn more How are you implementing the recent Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) decision on the right to be forgotten?
+++++++++++++++++++++

Judge - Have you ever heard about a book written by Manuel Catarino? ['A Culpa dos McCann' (The McCann's Guilt) pub. 2007]
Gerald McCann - I can't say I have no. I don't remember that name.

'A Culpa dos McCann' (The Guilt of the McCanns) by Manuel Catarino*
MADELEINE: “PLAN TO KEEP KATE IN CUSTODY” – Manuel Catarino has written a book. In The Guilt of the McCanns, he writes: “Kate, exhausted, keeps repeating the same. She played with the children in the living room, she put them to bed – and by 7.30pm they were already asleep. The police don’t believe her. They think Madeleine died accidentally in the living room and the parents, in a panic, fearful of the consequences, interested only in defending their reputation, hid her body and staged her abduction” Says Clarence Mitchell, It’s “another shameful attempt to make money out of the situation”. Clarence Mitchell is paid to represent he McCanns, how much is not said.http://www.anorak.co.uk/178443/madeleine-mccann/madeleine-mccann-manuel-catarino-writes-the-guilt-of-the-mccanns-and-international-crimewatch.html/
* This message appeared when googling 'A Culpa dos McCann': Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. Learn more How are you implementing the recent Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) decision on the right to be forgotten?

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by lj on 11.07.14 15:15

@plebgate wrote:Snipped from Joana's transcript - judge questions Mr.

"Judge - Did you suffer from insomnia?

Gerald McCann - Yes, we didn't sleep well for many nights because of the anxiety caused by the book.


I wonder exactly how many nights?   Was it more than when Maddie went missing? - we have read that they could sleep after 5 nights then.

Insomnia is a difficult thing. A lot of people think they sleep less than they actually do, especially when the insomnia is caused by worries.

Proof would be a sleepstudy, but there too there is no independent expert input.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

lj

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Iamtheseeker on 11.07.14 15:18

Was the real reason for their lack of "sleep" the fact that their guilt of neglect came to haunt them ? big grin Or is it the fear of going to prison one day ? big grin

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by PeterMac on 11.07.14 15:25

@lj wrote:Great post, and great points. Maybe PeterM could forward this. The last word could be the last statements still to be made by the lawyers.
Already done.
It is staggering to think that even now they are prepared to lie, under oath on matters which as so easily provable against them, in their own words . . .

This should go out on the Twittersphere for all to see and to understand.

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