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LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Monty Heck on 16.07.14 20:18

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:
  Would have thought Dra Duarte would have advised the McCs regarding low award levels, so they could decide whether bringing a case which could result in a considerable net loss once fees were taken into account, even in a win situation was worth bringing to court.  Perhaps that is what she did and the McCs decided to go ahead anyway.  Despite the 1.2M claim this could be less about the money and more about making Snr Amaral feel fear and pain, particularly of the financial kind.

The way I see it ID is in it for herself, hoping to add a win for an international client onto her portfolio; while the mcs hope to gain financially for shutting Amaral up through out of court settlement. They must have gone in believing they'd a good case believing they can get a sizeable sum through negotiation.

Likely the historical award record was never ever mentioned.
Even if they did know about it, that would matter little if they believe their case to be exceptional and therefore historic records is not a yardstick of measurement.  There has never been a case where foreigner arguidos take Portugal State ex-police officer, TV station and publisher collectively to court; so in that sense the case is indeed exceptional and there is always a first for everything.

At some point in the process they must have realised their case has no standing leg that is why they initiated the out of court settlement.  It's unheard of for plaintiffs to cave in.  Their action is indication they must have sensed their winning chance in court is slim.

In a win scenario and if historical record is something to go by, they may get an award that isn't sufficient to cover their legal costs, especially since cost of a long drawn out protracted case must be quite hefty.
In a lose scenario, the fund risks going bankrupt especially if they are ordered to pay legal costs of defendants as well.
Thanks again.  Re bolded text, looks like a somewhat reckless roll of the dice and hoping that this high risk strategy will pay off handsomely.  Your analogy that the case has no standing leg is most apt; going by the trial reports it seems so badly put together, as if little thought was ever given to being called on to bring evidence forward to support their claims.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Brian Griffin on 16.07.14 20:21

@Gaggzy wrote:

Amazing photograph proving Alfred Hitchcock is alive and well seen here scouring town for the nearest Burger King with Philomena McCann.

 laughat
Philomena doesn't share the jogging trait, then?

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Hobs on 17.07.14 4:17

KATE MCCANN.

"The REASON why we're taking ACTION against Goncalo Amaral is the damage that he's done for Madeleine, THAT'S OUR MAIN FOCUS"!

Another oops moment curtey of kate, who only opens her mouth to swap feet.

Think about it for a moment, look at what she has said.

Did you spot it?

The correct sentence should be:

"The REASON why we're taking ACTION against Goncalo Amaral is the damage that he's done TO Madeleine, THAT'S OUR MAIN FOCUS"!

Do you see the difference and thus a whole different meaning?

If they were suing as innocent parents, then, they would be suing because of the damage his words and action done to their daughter.
They would also be using the word THIS making them close the reason and action which would be expected (although innocent parents wouldn't be suing the ex lead detective in the first place)

Instead what kate is telling us, is that Dr. Amaral is acting on behalf of Maddie and the 'damage; done is on her behalf, if she were alive it would be on her say so.

She doesn't tell the damage was done to Maddie, she tells us there was damage done.

Since it isn't Maddie that has been damaged, who else would be damaged by his words , his actions, his investigation?

Who else would have a reason to sue Dr. Amaral?

Kate and gerry mccann is who.

She has just told us they are suing Dr. Amaral because of the damage he has done to them on Maddie's behalf.

He, using the facts and evidence garned during his time as lead investigator, to tell the world Maddie was not abducted from apt. 5a.

She died in the apartment as indicated by the blood and cadaver dogs, as revealed by the blood and fluids found in the apartment.

The reactions of the dogs to the hire care 25 days after she vanished.

The blood and body fluids found in said hire car.

The lack of one iota of evidence that an abductor broke into the apatment and stole Maddie.

The refusal to co-operate or do a full police reconstruction.

The refusal to answer the 48 (technically 56) questions.

The filing of a false police report.

The concealment of a corpse etc.

He is the voice of Maddie.

They thought they would have the perfect life without Maddie, that once she had gone it would be all rainbows and Disney.

No Maddie meant no millstone round their neck.

It meant more money, especially with the fund supporting them in thr life to which they want to be accustomed

Instead, even from the grave, Maddie continues to be the millstone round their neck.

Rather than going away as they wanted and expected, she is now even closer and there is no way to get rid of her.

If anything they are worse off now than when she was alive.

WE saw how kate blossomed in the days after Maddie vanished, it was as if a huge weight had been lifeted from her shoulders.
We only have to look at her today to see the stress writ large across her face.
She looks now, like she should have done on May 3rd 2007.
The stress of living a lie, maintaining the charade is taking it's toll and one day she will crack.
She has told us she will and also told us what she would do, this places the twins at great risk of harm, although in gerry's case i would say it was justifiable homicde

They had money by the bucket full, they had fame, they travelled the world meeting heads of state and celebs, they became celebs in their own right.
People  hung on to every word.
They were feted and praised and any dissent was quickly squashed with letters from carter-ruck

Now, instead of la bella vita as so envisaged, their reputations are down the pan, they have 2 police forces investigating the case despite their best efforts.
Rather than having a quick review and all closed , end of and on with the celeb lifestyle, they got a nasty shock when Scotland Yard said they were opening an investigation and the the PJ saying they were reopening the case.

They and we knew the case would only be reopened if there was new and compelling evidence, there was and no one knows what that evidence is and the PJ aren't saying, probably not even to Scotland Yard ( they know SY will promptly open their mouths)

They were screwed.

They refused to have the case kept open when offered the chance by the PJ.

I wonder why?

They couldn't do anything when SY said they were making the review into an investigation.
They couldn't say no as that would lead even their simmest supporter to say hang on, why don't they want it investigated if they are innocent?

Only a guilty person would want there to be no investigation since it would lead to awkward questions becoming charges becoming a long jail sentence.

This is Maddie speaking from the grave seeling justice against her parents.

They thought she was forever silenced, they were wrong.

They apparantly considered farming her out to a family member, getting rid of her and having the perfect family.

Blode haired twins, a boy and a girl.

Twogreat jobs with the social standing it entailed.

A big wad of money.


A nice house and a circle of friends in high places. (not answering the question kate, answesr the question)

It would have meant though still having her within the family circle,  having her come to visit, a reminder of their decisions,  the blot on their landscapre especially as she may have had health issues associated with the coloboma).

Perhaps kate saw herself in Maddie, the tantrums, the demanding attention, the fact she wasn't perfect.

She would be a reminder of everything wrong in the family, the scapegoat.

What then if the family member decided for whatever reason, they could no longer cope with Maddie, due to her health or their own or for some other reason?

Maddie would be handed back leaving them in the same situation they started off with, they they wanted to escape from.

A dead Maddie would mean freedom, with no risk of her turning up on their doorstep making demands, it meant less expense and more money in their pockets.
It would mean sympathy, money from well meaning people who dig deep in simialr situations.

It may have been planned, it may have been accidental, it may have been accidental initially and they saw a way to get rid of her, it may have been the result of something unexpected due to something they had done, overdose, physical or sexual abuse, a sudden loss of temper and lashing out, something done by another member of the group etc.

If done by a tapas member, why would they not tell the truth and report the person who did it?
Did they not do it because of their own involvement, if the person goes down they are taking the mccanns with them.

Instead they have her as an even heavier millstone round their necks.

They thought  a few says or weeks of searching, then it all dies down and they can move on, perhaps making a statement every so often.

Great idea except they liked the money pouring in, they thrived on the attention, especially gerry.
Thier own egos kept them in the spotlight, their craving attention kept them on the front page.
No more could they fade into the background, they became fame addicts and any attention good or bad satisfied their craving, plus, they could sue those causing them to get bad attention such as the police, nosy and non compliant journalists, the general public.
The could play the victim card and get megabicks at the same time.

Win win.

Instead Maddie is as present dead as she was alice and this time they cannot farm her out to a family member or into care.
They cannot escape her, they cannot ignore her.
Even now i bet they blame her for everything wrong in their marriage.
It is all Maddie's fault.


THAT'S OUR MAIN FOCUS"!
This is close, that is distancing.
Why are they distancing themselves from them taking action?
For there to be a THAT, there has to be a THIS.
They are distancing themselves from their main focus which is taking action against Dr.Amaral
So what is their main focus?


As i have often said, once a crime is done, it cannot be undone.
Sooner or later there will come the knock on the door and requests to accompany the nice officer to the station.
When that happens. and it will, they don't need a body to prove homicide, concealment of a corpse and filing a false police report although it would make it easier.

There is enough circumstanyial evidence from forensic and physical evidence and their own incriminating statements to have them sent down for a long time.

When the arrests come, first to talk wins the prize.

Kate could do the mental health issues, PND, perhaps she has a history of such issues which would explin why the medical records were sealed.
She could also play the domestic violence victim card using the bruises on her wrists and arms to show she was restrained plus witness statements from parents who saw her at the school gates with bruises.
These would count as mitigation and perhaps mean time in a hospital rather than jail.

Gerry has no such options, he would blame kate of course and then say he didn't know she had done it, and if pushed he could say he lied to keep the family togeather knowing she would press a button and kill them all and herself etc.

The more they speak, the more mardbles they leak and the more damning the evidence against them.




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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by tigger on 17.07.14 6:05

clapping1 

Great post! Thank you !

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Tilly-flop on 17.07.14 8:24

Thank you Hobs for another great post.  It's always 'comforting' to read your posts as they are so insightful  thumbsup

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Angelique on 18.07.14 6:31

aiyoyo

You wrote:

snip : "In a win scenario and if historical record is something to go by, they may get an award that isn't sufficient to cover their legal costs, especially since cost of a long drawn out protracted case must be quite hefty."

The thing to understand though, is if they win it means GA can no longer publish his Book. Remember Kate said that it was easier to understand/read than the files. This really says it all because what she wants to stop is people reading the Truth about the investigation carried out by the PJ.

The more people have access to The Truth of the Lie the more the Truth is known.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Monty Heck on 18.07.14 11:10

@Angelique wrote:aiyoyo

You wrote:

snip : "In a win scenario and if historical record is something to go by, they may get an award that isn't sufficient to cover their legal costs, especially since cost of a long drawn out protracted case must be quite hefty."

The thing to understand though, is if they win it means GA can no longer publish his Book. Remember Kate said that it was easier to understand/read than the files. This really says it all because what she wants to stop is people reading the Truth about the investigation carried out by the PJ.

The more people have access to The Truth of the Lie the more the Truth is known.
It does seem that money is perhaps not the reason for bringing this action, in which case the 1.2M claim would be something of a smokescreen.  Dra Duarte is a professional and it would be her duty to inform her clients about what they could realistically expect to get if they did win.  From what Aiyoyo says the precedent in Portugal is for relatively low awards in libel cases.  In bringing what they must have known would be an expensive and long drawn out action, they would have had to weigh up any possible gains against outlay and on that basis bringing the action does not compute.  However, stopping the book's circulation may be worth it at any price.  That may well be the primary reason behind the libel case, not their suffering because of it which, going by reports of the evidence brought, they seem to have failed to prove in any case.  A secondary reason could be that GA is pilloried mercilessly and constantly discredited in the UK MSM, which might be a very useful by product indeed and worth more than mere cash all day long.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Angelique on 18.07.14 12:44

@Monty Heck wrote:
@Angelique wrote:aiyoyo

You wrote:

snip : "In a win scenario and if historical record is something to go by, they may get an award that isn't sufficient to cover their legal costs, especially since cost of a long drawn out protracted case must be quite hefty."

The thing to understand though, is if they win it means GA can no longer publish his Book. Remember Kate said that it was easier to understand/read than the files. This really says it all because what she wants to stop is people reading the Truth about the investigation carried out by the PJ.

The more people have access to The Truth of the Lie the more the Truth is known.
It does seem that money is perhaps not the reason for bringing this action, in which case the 1.2M claim would be something of a smokescreen.  Dra Duarte is a professional and it would be her duty to inform her clients about what they could realistically expect to get if they did win.  From what Aiyoyo says the precedent in Portugal is for relatively low awards in libel cases.  In bringing what they must have known would be an expensive and long drawn out action, they would have had to weigh up any possible gains against outlay and on that basis bringing the action does not compute.  However, stopping the book's circulation may be worth it at any price.  That may well be the primary reason behind the libel case, not their suffering because of it which, going by reports of the evidence brought, they seem to have failed to prove in any case.  A secondary reason could be that GA is pilloried mercilessly and constantly discredited in the UK MSM, which might be a very useful by product indeed and worth more than mere cash all day long.

Yes indeed I agree - they get two birds with one stone. Whichever way the case goes there is the option of appealing and this would still freeze GA's assets and he still would not be able to publish. Its too awful to contemplate. He is caught in a snare.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Cristobell on 18.07.14 13:12

@Monty Heck wrote:
@Angelique wrote:aiyoyo

You wrote:

snip : "In a win scenario and if historical record is something to go by, they may get an award that isn't sufficient to cover their legal costs, especially since cost of a long drawn out protracted case must be quite hefty."

The thing to understand though, is if they win it means GA can no longer publish his Book. Remember Kate said that it was easier to understand/read than the files. This really says it all because what she wants to stop is people reading the Truth about the investigation carried out by the PJ.

The more people have access to The Truth of the Lie the more the Truth is known.
It does seem that money is perhaps not the reason for bringing this action, in which case the 1.2M claim would be something of a smokescreen.  Dra Duarte is a professional and it would be her duty to inform her clients about what they could realistically expect to get if they did win.  From what Aiyoyo says the precedent in Portugal is for relatively low awards in libel cases.  In bringing what they must have known would be an expensive and long drawn out action, they would have had to weigh up any possible gains against outlay and on that basis bringing the action does not compute.  However, stopping the book's circulation may be worth it at any price.  That may well be the primary reason behind the libel case, not their suffering because of it which, going by reports of the evidence brought, they seem to have failed to prove in any case.  A secondary reason could be that GA is pilloried mercilessly and constantly discredited in the UK MSM, which might be a very useful by product indeed and worth more than mere cash all day long.
I don't think so Monty.  The McCanns brought the libel claim in 2009 when they were riding the crest of the way.  Newspapers were buckling down and handing them large cheques, and they expected Goncalo Amaral to hand over his royalties (giving them a year to amass) before slapping in their claim.  At that time, they were facing a 'disgraced' and broke cop and they had millions pouring into their Fund.  The case was never meant to go to Court.

Five years on, the case is a huge embarrassment and a millstone around their necks.  They have tried several times to settle, offering Goncalo Amaral almost everything he wanted, if the reports are to be believed, but he has stubbornly refused.  They have absolutely no way of squirming out of this, and in the event they lose (inevitable imo), it is very unlikely they would appeal as it would merely prolong the agony (are they going to have better witnesses next time round?) and they would be throwing millions (I don't think they have) after millions. 

The juxtaposition has changed.  Goncalo is now Goliath, the police both here and in Portugal are mirroring his own investigation from 2007.  The 'mob' are no longer behind the 'grieving' parents, how many people still believe Madeleine is alive and out there?  The Might McCanns have fallen from grace, no billionaires are offering them private jets to fly out to Lisbon to sue people, nor are they offering to pay their legal expenses.  I think they are facing ruin Monty, they need that £1m+, desperately, just as they need the continuing sales of good quality wristbands and posters.  They have got through at least £4m+, they are big, big spenders, spokesmen and PR agencies and whoever else they have on their payroll, don't come cheap.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Justformaddie on 18.07.14 13:29

goodpost Cristobell. I love reading your posts, they keep my hopes up! thanks

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Praiaaa on 18.07.14 14:12

@Cristobell wrote:
 no billionaires are offering them private jets to fly out to Lisbon to sue people

and that is a very stark bellwether that gives me hope that  the suckers  sleb supporters have woken up, and quietly deserted them...

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Guest on 18.07.14 14:46

@Monty Heck wrote:
@Angelique wrote:aiyoyo

You wrote:

snip : "In a win scenario and if historical record is something to go by, they may get an award that isn't sufficient to cover their legal costs, especially since cost of a long drawn out protracted case must be quite hefty."

The thing to understand though, is if they win it means GA can no longer publish his Book. Remember Kate said that it was easier to understand/read than the files. This really says it all because what she wants to stop is people reading the Truth about the investigation carried out by the PJ.

The more people have access to The Truth of the Lie the more the Truth is known.
It does seem that money is perhaps not the reason for bringing this action, in which case the 1.2M claim would be something of a smokescreen.  Dra Duarte is a professional and it would be her duty to inform her clients about what they could realistically expect to get if they did win.  From what Aiyoyo says the precedent in Portugal is for relatively low awards in libel cases.  In bringing what they must have known would be an expensive and long drawn out action, they would have had to weigh up any possible gains against outlay and on that basis bringing the action does not compute.  However, stopping the book's circulation may be worth it at any price.  That may well be the primary reason behind the libel case, not their suffering because of it which, going by reports of the evidence brought, they seem to have failed to prove in any case.  A secondary reason could be that GA is pilloried mercilessly and constantly discredited in the UK MSM, which might be a very useful by product indeed and worth more than mere cash all day long.
There are some who think this is only about torturing & revenge; of dr GA standing in for the real or imagined culprits in their affections

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by missmar1 on 18.07.14 17:08

@Portia wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:
@Angelique wrote:aiyoyo

You wrote:

snip : "In a win scenario and if historical record is something to go by, they may get an award that isn't sufficient to cover their legal costs, especially since cost of a long drawn out protracted case must be quite hefty."

The thing to understand though, is if they win it means GA can no longer publish his Book. Remember Kate said that it was easier to understand/read than the files. This really says it all because what she wants to stop is people reading the Truth about the investigation carried out by the PJ.

The more people have access to The Truth of the Lie the more the Truth is known.
It does seem that money is perhaps not the reason for bringing this action, in which case the 1.2M claim would be something of a smokescreen.  Dra Duarte is a professional and it would be her duty to inform her clients about what they could realistically expect to get if they did win.  From what Aiyoyo says the precedent in Portugal is for relatively low awards in libel cases.  In bringing what they must have known would be an expensive and long drawn out action, they would have had to weigh up any possible gains against outlay and on that basis bringing the action does not compute.  However, stopping the book's circulation may be worth it at any price.  That may well be the primary reason behind the libel case, not their suffering because of it which, going by reports of the evidence brought, they seem to have failed to prove in any case.  A secondary reason could be that GA is pilloried mercilessly and constantly discredited in the UK MSM, which might be a very useful by product indeed and worth more than mere cash all day long.
There are some who think this is only about torturing & revenge; of dr GA standing in for the real or imagined culprits in their affections


Well, when the judge asked Gerry Mccann about the other books written about his daughter, I'm sure I read that he told the judge he had not read 
them  ? ...and, given that Kate Mccann supposedly wrote in her book that she wanted Mr Amaral to feel fear, it seems this case may well be built on vindictiveness and revenge against Mr Amaral ?

Imo, the Mccann's have shown they have the ability to keep their feelings under control when they are being interviewed or in front of a camera - many people have this ability I'm sure, but the Mccann's constant unfailing control over the period of 7 years seems to me that they pay lip-service but both of them lack the passion and genuine conviction that shows in people who genuinely claim to have had their lives ruined...all my opinion only.

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Bit long, but to the point. Many thanks L-azzeri

Post by PeterMac on 18.07.14 18:08

Barcelona Boob Job

Ah, now that title I think will have grabbed the attention of some who have found their way here for an obvious reason... expecting to see or hear a tale about boobs, and they will.... just perhaps not the type they were hoping for...still, maybe you will stick around for another reason...take time to read of -
the victim of a heinous crime - the missing child Madeleine Beth McCann.
the victim of hatred and greed, a retired Portuguese detective, Dr Goncalo Amaral.

The McCanns, the parents of the missing child launched an attack on the now retired detective, both in the media, ongoing now for around seven years, and have also taken legal action against this man on more than one occasion. The current action a libel case. The previous case, the McCanns lost.

Kate McCann has openly declared that she wishes that Dr Amaral be made to feel miserable to feel fear. Nice lady! And to that end, she has done her darn level best to make that happen!
Dr Amaral though does not fear Kate McCann nor her husband Gerry McCann, their wealthy backers, those who blindly support the couple their theory (for which there is no evidence to support) that their daughter was abducted.
The Portuguese Police found no evidence to support the McCann abduction theory.
The Metropolitan after THREE years working on the case have found not a shred of evidence to support the McCann abduction theory.
This latest legal action, the McCanns have claimed that the book by Dr Amaral and the documentary based on the book caused:

Damage to their private investigation/search for their daughter.
Pain and suffering to them, their three children, Madeleine (the missing child) Sean and Amelie.
(The book is not available in the English language, but an English translation can be found on the internet. )

Let us look first at their claim that the book by Dr Amaral resulted in information crucial to the investigation drying up, the public ceasing to search for Madeleine, and save the pain and suffering for the next one.
The McCanns theory/claim is that persons reading the book will believe the content (that they are involved in their daughter's disappearance) and this will have the knock on effect, readers :
Not bothering to search for the missing child
Ceasing to search for the missing child.
Not coming forward to disclose any information regarding the disappearance which they may hold.

Interesting to say the least, and for several reasons.
How is it possible for them to establish that anyone was searching for this child in the first instance?
Establish who read the book and what was their thoughts both before and after reading it?
Establish that persons read it and thought - 'hell I might have gone and looked for the little girl, but now I won't.'

That is complete nonsense. This book was published one year after Madeleine was reported as missing. It is therefore more than reasonable to suggest that anyone who wanted to search, who had crucial information would have come forward in that first year.
Who among the public would be out physically searching for Madeleine, one year on and after?
And is it not just ridiculous to suggest that any decent person having read or not the book, and should information for whatever reason, and by whatever means, come to their attention, that they would choose to not report it to help this child?
Of course it is!

The McCanns we must not forget did not fully co-operate with the police investigation, neither did their buddies! They refused to return to Portugal to help the child who they said was in the hands of paedophiles. What kind of people are they?
They ALL, each and every one of them FAILED this child!
And moreover - Where exactly did/do the McCanns (who never physically searched for their daughter - expect the public to search?
(There was a huge Reward also offered at that time, a reported £2.m! and no one came forward)

But there is another aspect to this.

Let us for a moment take it that Madeleine was abducted by a stranger. How many people then are out there who KNOW what happened to Madeleine? The alleged abductor, if he carried out the crime by himself, or say one or two more individuals if it was a combined effort.
When we put our home up for sale, we may get many many views, prospective purchasers, but only one person can buy it.
Realistically, no matter how many people read Dr Amaral's book even if in the hundreds of thousands, millions even, and no matter what they thought before, during and after reading it - How many of them could feasibly come forward with crucial information, with that KEY PIECE OF THE JIGSAW, that the McCanns have continually harped on about?
One, two, three, four?
How then can the McCanns justify their claim that the book by Dr Amaral was the cause of them not receiving crucial information, or that it caused the public to stop searching?
It simply makes no sense.

The perpetrators of the crimes against Madeleine whether they read the book or not, are not going to come forward to hand themselves in.
If a Reward of £2.m didn't entice or encourage them to do so - nothing will, not even Kate McCanns book, which she said she wrote, or one of the reasons she gave for writing it, was in the hope that someone would read it and come forward.
I guess no one out of the thousands who read her book had anything new, no new information to disclose, to offer them! So why would she think that anyone reading Dr Amaral's did, and just didn't bother to act on it?

And if we were daft enough to use the same argument as the McCanns one could say that after reading the inconsistencies in Kate McCanns book the far fetched tales contained therein, that the public felt there was no point in searching, as the book had perhaps confirmed their suspicions, they had reached the conclusion that the persons responsible for the child's disappearance was the author and those who holidayed with her?
That is as possible or as ridiculous as the claim by Gerry and Kate McCann in their legal action against Dr Amaral.
It is ridiculous therefore to say that the book by Dr Amaral damaged their search.

Probably the most damaging to their search was the McCanns HIDING THE E.FITS GERRY MCCANN LOOKALIKE E.FITS, AND KEEPING THEM HIDDEN FOR, WHAT IS REPORTED AS BEING FIVE YEARS!

Madeleine was reported missing on 3rd May 2007.
Dr Amaral’s book launched 24th July 2008 in Lisbon.
McCanns decided to take legal action against Dr Amaral in April 2009.

Kate McCann:
"Amaral's documentary was the last straw. On 20 April we took the decision WITH Isabel Duarte to sue him.
While she did the preparatory work, we were off to the States AGAIN – to appear on Oprah Winfrey's talk show."
So they were off to the States to continue their search for Madeleine, to appear on the Oprah Show which would be aired worldwide.
Between 2007, and 2008 (BEFORE the publication of Dr Amaral’s book, and despite a reported £2.5m Reward being offered for information) –No one had come forward approached the McCann Private Investigation with anything close to crucial leads/information.
To be noted also - McCanns, oddly, never promoted the Reward, and when asked about it in interview, were unable to confirm whether it still existed.

Between 2008 and 2009 – (AFTER the publication of Dr Amaral's book) the McCanns, their spokesperson Clarence Mitchell, and their private investigator Dave Edgar announced in a massive press conference in August 2009 - ONE year AFTER the launch of Dr Amaral's book - that they had received their best lead -

(SO Dr Amaral's book did NOT PREVENT WITNESSES COMING FORWARD!)
The lead was described by Dave Edgar and Clarence Mitchell, as being :

Strong,
credible,
Significant
...due to it being from a professional guy, a business man (who I believe was out cheating on his wife or girlfriend or something, so didn't want to be named - always a sub-plot in a McCann tale!)

So credible, did they believe it to be, that they held the press conference, had E. Fits produced, and amid flash bulbs and press questions they unveiled Barcelona Babe, the Victoria Beckham lookalike!

Personally the only resemblance that I could see to poor old Posh was the frown!
We have now established that the McCann Private Investigation, information, leads, calls to their team had not dried up AFTER the publication of Dr Amaral's book...
But come closer, what is more revealing,is what Pinky of Porky fame had to say at that conference:

CM: They are searching for Madeleine with every breath that they take, in one way or another. Errr... they will never give up until they know what has happened to her. Errr... it's that strength that keeps them going. Errm... when they feel... they're at their strongest when they feel there is momentum; when they feel that information is coming in. Errm... they'd much rather have that than nothing, in fact it's when it's a quiet period that... that they can get down about... about everything.

Errm... for the second anniversary, again, you may be aware that we did quite a round of television interviews. Internationally, we did the Oprah Winfrey Show, errr... Channel 4 Cutting Edge was done here in Britain - much of that was seen around the world and hundreds of calls came into Dave and his team as a result and that gave them a real sense of momentum.

In fact, I think they felt there was more momentum around the search, for the second anniversary, than almost there was for the first. So they drew strength from that and, errm... they're now just waiting to hear and obviously praying that, errm... this could be the piece in the jigsaw that leads to finding Madeleine eventually.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id262.html

So the momentum this lead had generated, buoyed them, I take from Mitchell's comments? They prefer even if a lead goes nowhere, to have a lead than not. And they are at their strongest when leads are coming in.
But what is very crucial here, Mitchell states that at the SECOND ANNIVERSARY (May 2009) the McCanns felt there was MORE momentum (almost) for the SEARCH, than there had been around the time of the First Anniversary. The McCanns he said drew strength from this. They would be at their strongest at this time?

My point?
The SECOND ANNIVERSARY (2009) arrived almost ONE YEAR AFTER THE LAUNCH OF Dr Goncalo Amaral's book in 2008!
This fantastic, credible, significant lead in Barcelona came more than ONE YEAR AFTER the LAUNCH OF Dr Goncalo Amaral's book in 2008!
Mitchell also stated that at that time after the Oprah Winfrey Show (May 2009) in the US and the Cutting Edge in the UK that Dave Edgar's team received HUNDREDS OF CALLS!
On 20th April 2009, the McCanns instructed Isabel Duarte to begin proceedings against Dr Amaral, his documentary they said was the last straw. They then hopped on a plane to the US to appear on Oprah, the show aired at the beginning of May 2009.
On one hand we have Kate McCann speaking of being 'wounded' by the book/documentary, and on the other Clarence Mitchell saying, that at this time they were at their strongest, had a real sense of momentum, receiving hundreds of call to Dave Edgar!
How then, can these people justifiably claim that Dr Amaral's book hindered their SEARCH?

And just as a matter of interest, Dave Edgar the McCann Private Detective, turns out he boobed in Barcelona, he bungled the investigation, he had not bothered to interview owners of local premises etc Does that make him the DISGRACED PRIVATE DICK?

the list of boobs, and the link follows:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206842/Why-did-Madeleine-McCann-detectives-ask-questions.html

'The Mail on Sunday, however, has established that members of Mr Edgar’s team who had visited Barcelona:

Failed to speak to anyone working at the seafood restaurant near where the agitated woman was seen at 2am.
Failed to ask the port authority about movement of boats around the time Madeleine disappeared.
Failed to ask if the mystery woman had been filmed on CCTV.
Knew nothing about the arrival of an Australian luxury yacht just after Madeleine vanished until told by British journalists, who gave them the captain’s mobile phone number.
Failed to interview anyone at a nearby dockside bar where, according to Mr Edgar, the mystery woman was later seen drinking.
Failed to ask British diplomats in Spain for advice before or during the visit.
Also, Spanish police could not confirm that they had been contacted by the British investigators.
Last night Mr Edgar said:

‘We are not above criticism and I take responsibility for any shortcomings. If somebody has not done what they should have done, that’s my job to deal with that.’

END
Shucks - that's okay then!
For sure though, Edgar and Mitchell's work can only be described as the Barcelona Boob Job
And as I'm feeling a little guilty for drawing some to the site under false pretences: Barcelona!


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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Newintown on 18.07.14 18:48

PeterMac

You didn't give the link for that excellent article and any credit to the writer -

http://l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun.com/Barcelona_Boob_Job.html

I read the original article and I must say the photo at the end made my eyes water, and I'm a female!   big grin

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Monty Heck on 19.07.14 11:07

@Cristobell wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:
@Angelique wrote:aiyoyo

You wrote:

snip : "In a win scenario and if historical record is something to go by, they may get an award that isn't sufficient to cover their legal costs, especially since cost of a long drawn out protracted case must be quite hefty."

The thing to understand though, is if they win it means GA can no longer publish his Book. Remember Kate said that it was easier to understand/read than the files. This really says it all because what she wants to stop is people reading the Truth about the investigation carried out by the PJ.

The more people have access to The Truth of the Lie the more the Truth is known.
It does seem that money is perhaps not the reason for bringing this action, in which case the 1.2M claim would be something of a smokescreen.  Dra Duarte is a professional and it would be her duty to inform her clients about what they could realistically expect to get if they did win.  From what Aiyoyo says the precedent in Portugal is for relatively low awards in libel cases.  In bringing what they must have known would be an expensive and long drawn out action, they would have had to weigh up any possible gains against outlay and on that basis bringing the action does not compute.  However, stopping the book's circulation may be worth it at any price.  That may well be the primary reason behind the libel case, not their suffering because of it which, going by reports of the evidence brought, they seem to have failed to prove in any case.  A secondary reason could be that GA is pilloried mercilessly and constantly discredited in the UK MSM, which might be a very useful by product indeed and worth more than mere cash all day long.
I don't think so Monty.  The McCanns brought the libel claim in 2009 when they were riding the crest of the way.  Newspapers were buckling down and handing them large cheques, and they expected Goncalo Amaral to hand over his royalties (giving them a year to amass) before slapping in their claim.  At that time, they were facing a 'disgraced' and broke cop and they had millions pouring into their Fund.  The case was never meant to go to Court.

Five years on, the case is a huge embarrassment and a millstone around their necks.  They have tried several times to settle, offering Goncalo Amaral almost everything he wanted, if the reports are to be believed, but he has stubbornly refused.  They have absolutely no way of squirming out of this, and in the event they lose (inevitable imo), it is very unlikely they would appeal as it would merely prolong the agony (are they going to have better witnesses next time round?) and they would be throwing millions (I don't think they have) after millions. 

The juxtaposition has changed.  Goncalo is now Goliath, the police both here and in Portugal are mirroring his own investigation from 2007.  The 'mob' are no longer behind the 'grieving' parents, how many people still believe Madeleine is alive and out there?  The Might McCanns have fallen from grace, no billionaires are offering them private jets to fly out to Lisbon to sue people, nor are they offering to pay their legal expenses.  I think they are facing ruin Monty, they need that £1m+, desperately, just as they need the continuing sales of good quality wristbands and posters.  They have got through at least £4m+, they are big, big spenders, spokesmen and PR agencies and whoever else they have on their payroll, don't come cheap.
Interesting Cristobell but I am leaning more towards Angelique's view immediately above, that Snr Amaral may be caught in a snare.  As you say, funds may be running out, however if that is the case, the McCs are nothing if not tenacious and it would be no surprise if they were still able raise funds from wealthy backers at least.  Just because there is no longer visible celeb support doesn't mean that some may not agree to donate anonymously.  If this round is lost an appeal would be highly likely, provided the cash is there; quality of evidence (or lack of) seems not to have been an issue in the current case so why would it be in a future action?  If the main aims are continuing the freeze on Snr A's assets, denying him income and racking up more defence costs then the quality of evidence may be secondary.

On a more positive note, the judge brought up the other books published which the McCs were demonstrably not interested in, which could lead to her drawing an inference that the current action has nothing to do with fears about a "damaged search", rather that it is a matter of personal animosity and desire for revenge.  I do think this current round will be lost but it remains to be seen whether that will be the end of the matter.  Somehow that seems unlikely.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by plebgate on 19.07.14 14:36

I think when (my opinion still) they lose it is quite likely that an appeal will be launched.

Just wondering whether it is possible in Portugal for leave to appeal to be denied?

Also agree that is is  possible that there may be rich backers still helping.   Zlebs, possibly not, but could well be very rich peeps involved still imo.

Would they throw good money after bad if an appeal needed and granted.  Remains to be seen.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Guest on 19.07.14 14:42

@Monty Heck  In case of a positive verdict for Dr. Amaral, continuation of the freeze on his assets and incomes wouldn't be successful per se.
Even so, depending on the legitimacy of the claimed claimants and the claimed amounts as well as the outcome of the main cause, the seizure of his assets and incomes could then well have been unjustly damaging on itself. 
This could open up all kinds of possibilities on counterclaims from Amaral, and with those, freezing of the other parties' funds.
 
If the despicable couple doesn't win large part of the claim in first instance, they will be fubar.
 
I hope they're sweating carrots, trembling. 
 
If I'm not mistaken I've read Clarence some days ago, complaining or threatening, that the case could go on for another five years. Well, have fun with that, Clarence! I think they're scared as &%$. They wanted to settle. The cheap way of getting money.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Monty Heck on 20.07.14 11:56

MarcoG wrote:@Monty Heck  In case of a positive verdict for Dr. Amaral, continuation of the freeze on his assets and incomes wouldn't be successful per se.
Even so, depending on the legitimacy of the claimed claimants and the claimed amounts as well as the outcome of the main cause, the seizure of his assets and incomes could then well have been unjustly damaging on itself. 
This could open up all kinds of possibilities on counterclaims from Amaral, and with those, freezing of the other parties' funds.
 
If the despicable couple doesn't win large part of the claim in first instance, they will be fubar.
 
I hope they're sweating carrots, trembling. 
 
If I'm not mistaken I've read Clarence some days ago, complaining or threatening, that the case could go on for another five years. Well, have fun with that, Clarence! I think they're scared as &%$. They wanted to settle. The cheap way of getting money.
Hope you are right MarcoG.  It seems fundamentally unfair that GA's assets remain frozen while and if this disupute drags on indefinitely, during which time it remains uproven that he has committed the offence/s claimed by the McCs.  He must surely be as legally innocent until proven guilty as the McC's claim they are as it has to work both ways.  Sweating carrots - brilliant, a genuine LOL.
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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by aiyoyo on 22.07.14 2:40

@Angelique wrote:aiyoyo

You wrote:

snip : "In a win scenario and if historical record is something to go by, they may get an award that isn't sufficient to cover their legal costs, especially since cost of a long drawn out protracted case must be quite hefty."

The thing to understand though, is if they win it means GA can no longer publish his Book. Remember Kate said that it was easier to understand/read than the files. This really says it all because what she wants to stop is people reading the Truth about the investigation carried out by the PJ.

The more people have access to The Truth of the Lie the more the Truth is known.

IMO. it's not about stopping his book reaching the masses because firstly it is in portuguese and secondly purchasers of his book may not necessary be aware of the released files.
Rather it is their vindictive desire to destroy him, because they hate his guts, his integrity, and all he stands for that they are not; and if there is money to be made in the process then it is a bonus to them.  
Suing him is all about avenging their anger against him because he saw through them, not  strictly about stopping the circulation of the book which is restricted anyway to portuguese readers, and that can be done simply by asking for an injunction to be imposed without having to seek monetary reward citing all manner of excuses of  mental health condition.

I don't see how they can win the case, since it is not about libel (as people were led to believe), but about their right to peaceful existence vs Amaral's right to freedom of expression.  I suspect even ID did not recognise the true nature of the trial thus she must have failed to properly advise the mcs accordingly.

We know they listed all sorts of imaginary mental and psychological dis-ease in their claims, but listed nothing of the book contents they object to.   It's a no wonder the judge halted Gerry's attempt to introduce evidence of libel, when the matter of libel was never among their claims in order that court can try the validity of it or not.

They cannot assume for Court to know which bits in the book they content to be libelous of them, unless they list them in black and white and set them before court to judiciate.  Gerry siimply forcing his way to the stand just to say the book states facts as true is not sufficient.  
If this trial was about libel, Gerry would have to explain what he sees wrong with facts stated as true, for facts are held to be true.

No, sorry I cant see them winning, even should the judiciary reoganisation result in a change of judge, they still don't stand a chance.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by ultimaThule on 24.07.14 10:27

From the transcript of the final hearing session posted on http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html  it would appear there will not be 'a change of judge', aiyoyo:  

"Due to the judicial holidays it's very likely that the trial will only continue in or after September. The Judge also mentions that in September alterations will be made to the Penal Code Process but those changes will not affect in any way the ongoing trial"

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by aiyoyo on 24.07.14 16:09

Is Penal Code Process same as Judiciary reorganisation/remapping?

One would expect ongoing cases nearing end stage to be left untouched by any reorganisation.
Allocating new judges to ongoing cases would be abuse of resources and manpower, as the new judges would have to start from scratch to get up to speed with the proceedings, which would not be time effective plus it could cause complications for parties involved.
I don't expect there to be a change of judge in said case, especially when case is at the last stage, but I would not state that as a certainty.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by worriedmum on 24.07.14 17:05

Just thinking aloud, would they be able to sue if a faithful copy of the police files, translated into English, was published?

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by PeterMac on 24.07.14 17:31

@worriedmum wrote:Just thinking aloud, would they be able to sue if a faithful copy of the police files, translated into English, was published?

They had a go at TB for publishing the Madeleine McCann case files Part one, which was nothing more than some of the statements made by various of the dramatis personae.
There was no commentary, no observations, no interpretation.
My recollection is that his honour Mr Justice Tugendhat made some remark to the effect that "facts in themselves can be defamatory" which seems, with respect 'ludicrous", but may be an accurate statement of English law.
What, though, is the situation where we have more than one simultaneous "fact"
Curtains wide open AND tight closed.
How would his Honour deal with that, I wonder ?
How would Mitchell deal with that ?
How would McVey deal with that ?
And why doesn't somebody ask them ?

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