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Quick question

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Quick question

Post by phil_burton on 11.07.14 21:34

According to

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html#aug11

the PJ suspected that there would be evidence of a crime inside the Mccanns hire car:

"We suggest that this inspection is entrusted to the PJ and ask the Public Prosecutor for a 20 day mandate. Thus, we consider that there are indications that consolidate strong suspicions according to which, there are elements of evidence of a crime, inside the vehicle used by the McCanns and, moreover, likely to reveal important details of fundamental importance for the investigation."


At this point they had only searched the flats, and some of the surrounding area. So my question is - what made the PJ suspect there was evidence to be found in the hire car?


It doesn't naturally follow that because they suspected MM had died in the apartment, that the hire car (hired 3+ weeks later) would hold any evidence?

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Re: Quick question

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.07.14 22:57

@phil_burton wrote:According to

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html#aug11

the PJ suspected that there would be evidence of a crime inside the Mccanns hire car:

"We suggest that this inspection is entrusted to the PJ and ask the Public Prosecutor for a 20 day mandate. Thus, we consider that there are indications that consolidate strong suspicions according to which, there are elements of evidence of a crime, inside the vehicle used by the McCanns and, moreover, likely to reveal important details of fundamental importance for the investigation."

At this point they had only searched the flats, and some of the surrounding area. So my question is - what made the PJ suspect there was evidence to be found in the hire car?

It doesn't naturally follow that because they suspected MM had died in the apartment, that the hire car (hired 3+ weeks later) would hold any evidence?
ANSWER: The most likely reason is because a vigilant neighbour noticed that the McCanns' car boot was left open all night long and told the police.

See the bits in red from my long article: 'Michael Wright in Praia da Luz' published in 2009:

QUOTE

The McCanns in the villa - July onwards

The McCanns moved into their new villa outside Praia da Luz on Sunday 1 July 2007, staying there until 10 September when they rushed back to England just after being made ‘arguido’ and ‘arguida’. So when Dr Kate McCann collected Michael Wright from the airport on 12 July, presumably she took Michael Wright back with her to the villa, before flying to England the following day.
Despite claims that the villa was provided free of charge by a supporter, in fact, the McCanns were billed for €6000.00 for the period of 1 July to 31 August 2007 and then a further €1000.00 for the period 1 to 10 September.  They had had to move because 1 July was the start of the Portuguese ‘high season’.
Altogether, then, €7000.00 - or over £5,000. The monthly rental was therefore nearly £2,500 - or £600 a week. The bill was made out direct to Dr Gerry and Dr Kate McCann, asking for full payment by bank transfer. No deposit was required.
When the Portuguese police went to the villa during July, they made some surprising finds, notably books on crimes and murders, plus confidential procedure manuals produced by the Child Exploitation and Online Ptotection Centre. During his time at the villa, Dr Gerry McCann also researched the ability of cadaver dogs - looking, it seems, for every weakness in their ability, searching for every possible reference to their evidence being unreliable.

‘Rubbish to the dumps’
Michael Wright mentions in the synopsis of his statement that he and the McCanns used a number of refuse sites for disposing of household rubbish. He mentions two rubbish disposal areas on the estate of the villa itself, first by the main entrance and other at the top of the hill. Outside the villa, he mentions other public rubbish disposal sites: a site on Cemetery Road, a site on a road above the Mark Warners complex, and a further site between the villa and the church. These visits to so many rubbish dump sites - five in all -  seem odd given that we know there were several large disposal bins in Praia da Luz which they could have used.
Michael Wright and Dr Gerry McCann also claimed to have been taking garden rubbish regularly to the dumps. Quite what ‘gardening’ would have to be done in a rented Mediterranean villa, when you have the twins to look after and are running an intense, global campaign to ‘find Madeleine’, is unclear.
The unpleasant smell in the Renault Scenic

We looked at a few facts about the hire of the Renault Scenic above. Now we look at the following extract from Michael Wright’s synopsis:
“On a number of occasions he [Michael Wright] noticed an unpleasant smell in the vehicle that he put down to the twins used nappies which had been discarded with the general waste. He was not aware of any spillages in the vehicle or anyone cleaning it”.
Given these statements, it is more than passing interest that a neighbour of the McCanns observed that ‘the back door of the Renault Scenic was left open all night long’ - presumably to get rid of the smell? It is hardly likely that the McCanns would have left ‘rotting meat’ and ‘dirty nappies’ in the back of the car for long enough for the smell to remain. Smells like that would be washed away with a good clean. The smell of human cadaverine, however, once it attaches to an item, can linger for years.
It is interesting that he uses the term ‘unpleasant smell’. As a mature adult, he would surely know what kind of smells resulted from ‘rotting meat’ and ‘dirty nappies’. But he doesn’t say the car smelt of either of these. He talks about an ‘unpleasant smell’ - and one that clearly lingered a long time, being noticed ‘on several occasions’. Incidentally, though Michael Wright claims that he was not aware of the car ever being cleaned, there is evidence that another relative, Sandy Cameron, was seen cleaning it on several occasions. Clearly it was a most unusual smell. Could it have been the ‘smell of death’ detected by Eddie, the cadaver dog?
Quite why dirty nappies should smell that much is a puzzle anyway, assuming that the McCanns do whatever other parents do, namely, fold the nappies up and put them away in a sealable polythene bag ready for disposal.
It may reasonably asked why Michael Wright would mention the unpleasant smell at all...
One blogger wrote the following about the ‘smell of death’: “For anyone who has never smelt it, the smell of a decaying body can never be mistaken. It cannot and will never be mistaken for anything else. It is a sweet, sickly, gas like smell, nothing remotely like butchered rotting meat or dirty nappies.  Anyone who has ever successfully used rodent poison under their floor will (a few days later) have had a taste of what a decaying whole body smells of. Once smelt, never forgotten”.
The explanation for so many trips to the rubbish dump centred around garden waste. But as we saw above, the idea that the McCanns were able to find time for gardening seems unlikely, as of course was the necessity for Dr Kate McCann to wash the holiday curtains. What other holidaymakers need to wash their holiday curtains?

UNQUOTE

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        


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Re: Quick question

Post by phil_burton on 11.07.14 23:23

Hi Tony, what date was the statement mentioning the oddity of the boot being open night & day made?

Was it before or after the PJ made the request to have the dogs "inspect" the car?

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Re: Quick question

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.07.14 23:48

@phil_burton wrote:Hi Tony, what date was the statement mentioning the oddity of the boot being open night & day made?

Was it before or after the PJ made the request to have the dogs "inspect" the car?
I don't know the answer to that, sorry.

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        


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Re: Quick question

Post by Nina on 12.07.14 9:30

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@phil_burton wrote:Hi Tony, what date was the statement mentioning the oddity of the boot being open night & day made?

Was it before or after the PJ made the request to have the dogs "inspect" the car?
I don't know the answer to that, sorry.

It would appear that an official statement was never made,
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2090-t-why-did-the-mccann-s-need-to-air-their-car-boot-in-the-still-of-the-night

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Re: Quick question

Post by Daryl Dixon on 12.07.14 9:42

@Tony Bennett wrote:
The explanation for so many trips to the rubbish dump centred around garden waste. But as we saw above, the idea that the McCanns were able to find time for gardening seems unlikely, as of course was the necessity for Dr Kate McCann to wash the holiday curtains. What other holidaymakers need to wash their holiday curtains?

UNQUOTE
I've seen it mentioned a few times that the McCann's washed the curtains in the holiday apartment but cannot find it in the files. Can anyone provide a link to this please.

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Re: Quick question

Post by Juulcy on 12.07.14 10:36

@Daryl Dixon wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
The explanation for so many trips to the rubbish dump centred around garden waste. But as we saw above, the idea that the McCanns were able to find time for gardening seems unlikely, as of course was the necessity for Dr Kate McCann to wash the holiday curtains. What other holidaymakers need to wash their holiday curtains?

UNQUOTE
I've seen it mentioned a few times that the McCann's washed the curtains in the holiday apartment but cannot find it in the files. Can anyone provide a link to this please.

Hi DD, I asked the same question in 2011 on this forum. The answer I got was a link to Joana Morais' blog. On it is a newspaper article from 2008, which states the washing as a fact. Sorry can't put up a link, don't now how, but put searchterms curtains washed on her blog and you find it.

As a newspaper article is not an official source, I have put this allegation permanently in my personal "maybe--maybe-not" box. I also read somewhere that the washing did happen but took place after the forensic evidence was taken. Can't find that back at all, so of no use as a proven fact.

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Re: Quick question

Post by canada12 on 12.07.14 10:41

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html

PJ reconstitutes crime

The police is convinced that the McCann couple had someone’s help
15 SEPT 07 article by Felicia Cabrita

Later at the Ocean Club, the use of the dogs ended up triggering a turnaround in the investigation.

As Sol could discover, the dogs detected cadaver odour behind a couch in the apartment’s living room, close to a window that leads to the resort’s back area.

This window had curtains that were removed and analysed by police, and a small blood sample was detected. Both the curtains and the wall where it was located at, had been washed.


Also:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id29.html
Exclusive: Brit cops to quiz Kate McCann Sunday Mirror

Brit police want Kate to answer ALL 40 questions...
Doubt cast on evidence of dogs that smelt death...
Party did NOT drink 15 bottles of wine at bar

Nick Owens and Grant Hodgson in Praia da Luz 16/09/2007

It has also been alleged that curtains behind the sofa had traces of blood which were found to have been washed when they were taken away and analysed.

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Re: Quick question

Post by Miraflores on 12.07.14 11:56

Is it possible to tell how recently curtains had been washed? It would not be unreasonable to have washed them preparing the apartment for the start of the holiday season.

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Re: Quick question

Post by HelenMeg on 12.07.14 12:12

@phil_burton wrote:According to

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html#aug11

the PJ suspected that there would be evidence of a crime inside the Mccanns hire car:

"We suggest that this inspection is entrusted to the PJ and ask the Public Prosecutor for a 20 day mandate. Thus, we consider that there are indications that consolidate strong suspicions according to which, there are elements of evidence of a crime, inside the vehicle used by the McCanns and, moreover, likely to reveal important details of fundamental importance for the investigation."


At this point they had only searched the flats, and some of the surrounding area. So my question is - what made the PJ suspect there was evidence to be found in the hire car?


It doesn't naturally follow that because they suspected MM had died in the apartment, that the hire car (hired 3+ weeks later) would hold any evidence?
Really good question, and explanation.
I am surprised that Michael Wright raised the suspicious smell at all. For me it indicates that he was not aware of any suspicious movements relating to the hire car.
Reading all of this again, it seems certain that the body was transported via this car which seems to imply that they deliberately decided it was a safer strategy to leave the body in its initial resting place (presumably freezer / fridge ) for as long as required.  It also seems to imply that at this stage of things they did not have any significant support from establishment. If they had been supported by establishment at this stage then the body relocation would have been aided long before this. 
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Re: Quick question

Post by suzyjohnson on 12.07.14 12:15

@Miraflores wrote:Is it possible to tell how recently curtains had been washed? It would not be unreasonable to have washed them preparing the apartment for the start of the holiday season.

Not unreasonable but you would expect that Mark Warners would know if all the curtains, or specifically the curtains in 5A, had been washed by any of the staff.

With regard to the question of why the woman who reported the car boot open all night was not heard by the PJ, perhaps it was simply that she was not recalled (like the Smiths) because the PJ were preparing to close the case?

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Re: Quick question

Post by suzyjohnson on 12.07.14 12:20

@HelenMeg wrote:
...... it seems certain that the body was transported via this car ...........It also seems to imply that at this stage of things they did not have any significant support from establishment. If they had been supported by establishment at this stage then the body relocation would have been aided long before this. 
 -

Of course, if the McCanns had any help from the establishment then a body could have been transported in any car, the last one they would choose would be the car rented by the couple

Also, I agree that the fact that Michael Wright drew attention to an unpleasant smell in the car indicates that he was not involved in any, possible, crime.

Have they checked out the staff from the car hire company? In theory one of them could have been responsible for MM's disappearance, used the car, hired it out to the McCanns later on so that they would be the suspects when the car was checked by the PJ, but even that risks bringing the investigation back towards themselves.

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