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LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Justformaddie on 10.07.14 19:02

@Versailles wrote:Will a portuguese court be more in favour of a Portuguese ex police man than two British parents who have caused so much fuss through the years?

I know the official answer will be no, but I still have hope.
If that was the case then I don't think GA would've been removed from the investigation IMO

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 10.07.14 19:16

@SallyVern wrote:If this has been posted before please delete


www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/77sep13/AnneGuedes_12_09_2013.htm#day12km



Libel trial McCann v Gonçalo Amaral - Day 12 – Kate McCann's deposition
 
The hearing as it happened 
(08.07.2014, 9:45am)
 
The judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro starts by asking the lawyers for the defence whether they intend to speak out about a request that was made by the plaintiffs on the 26th of June. They say they give up.
The judge then refers to the fact that the plaintiffs appealed against the decision not to hear the parties whereas Gonçalo Amaral didn't and that therefore only Gerald and Kate McCann will be heard to-day.
The judge finally clarifies what was her first point: the plaintiffs had asked for information about the financial situation of GA on the 6th of January but didn't obtain it, Dra Isabel Duarte having requested on the 26th of June a Court's order for the Autoridade Tributária e Aduaneira (HM Revenue and Customs) to disclose confidential documents concerning GA.
The judge decides to grant this request, which was opposed only by the Guerra&Paz lawyer who finds it unnecessary and increasing the delay up to the end of this trial. The plaintiffs have ten days to obtain the documents and release them to the tribunal.
Therefore the hearing scheduled for this afternoon (Dra Duarte) and the hearing on the 10th (the defence lawyers) will have to be postponed. Sine die, because of 

1) the tribunal holidays (starting on 16 of July and ending on 31 of August) and 

 

2) A new judiciary organization that will be implemented in the whole country in the beginning of September.
 
Statement of Kate McCann
The first plaintiff to be heard is Kate Healy (name on her passport). Standing, as any witness did, she indicates her identity, address, profession (says she is a doctor but doesn't work any more), etc. Finally the judge claims that the plaintiff is here to make a statement on some facts of this trial. The plaintiff is expected to speak the truth about those points. Then she's invited to sit down.
The statement that the new CPC authorises is in fact not a voluntary and deliberate oral deposition so the McCanns asserting that this was time for them to make their statements was yet another misleading statement. It appears this was never going to be about having their dramatic victim moment, but consists of replying to the judge's questions a step in the right direction at least for them to be grilled by a judge. After that questioning, the lawyers are invited to submit their own questions, but those are themselves questioned by the judge who will reformulate or possibly reject some of them.
 
Judge – Do you remember when you first learnt about the book by Gonçalo Amaral and when you read it?
KMC learnt that the book existed through the media and read parts of it that were quoted. She read it completely around the end of 2008.I don't buy this, you would make sure you read every word ASAP
Judge – How did you feel when you read the book?
KMC says that she was devastated. She already had an idea of what was in that book, but when she read it all she felt desperate because of the injustice against her and her family as a whole and also felt anxious because of the damage that this book was causing to Madeleine. She gives as an example the fact that the book accuses her and her husband of being somehow involved and of faking an abduction. The book smears her and her husband throughout. Spurious claim at best. The Mirror Forum and others where thousands of people questioned the McCanns innocence within days is testimony that the McCann version of events lacked credibility with immediate effect. I would wager that the vast majority of people who bought Amarals book did so because they already disbelieved the McCann tripe.
Judge – What data are you now referring to?
KMC says that the book had many negative effects in Portugal Again, not a credible claim. The people of Portugal were calling for the McCanns to leave, to go away, long before the book was published. She says that this book sounds credible BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON POLICE FINDINGS KATE!!!!and if people believe what it says, that Madeleine is dead, they will not search for her and bring more information about her. She says that it is a particularly serious matter that such a theory is published in Portugal, because it is from there that Madeleine disappeared.
 
Judge – Do you remember the documentary?
KMC says that Portuguese and non Portuguese friends told her that it had been horrible, they didn't dare to tell her on the night it was broadcast, but the following day they gave her details.
Judge – Did you happen to watch it?
KMC says that she watched it when it was available on the Web.
Judge – What new element does this documentary bring? How did you feel watching it compared to what you felt when you read the book?
KMC finds that the destructive power of the documentary is bigger, it is yet more damaging.
Judge – Did you feel worse and why?
KMC explains that the documentary is more definitive and cutting than the book. She felt despair because of the injustice towards her family as a whole and she was anxious that it would damage the search since there was no official investigation and they were the only ones working very hard. As it was jeopardising their efforts, she felt pain and fear.
 
The Judge asks whether KMC knows about an interview given by Gonçalo Amaral to the Correio da Manhã, whether she remembers a particular interview.
KMC remembers an interview about the documentary, she remembers in particular one where it was said that Madeleine was dead, that they had kept her body in a freezer and transported it in the car boot.
Judge asks how KMC was made aware of the interviews.
KMC replies that she has friends in Portugal and that those friends sent her the articles and indicated the essential points.
Judge – When did you learn of that interview?
KMC doesn't remember the date but thinks it was soon after... (Suspended voice)
Judge – How did you react?
KMC says that her friends in Portugal were a big support.
 
Judge – How do you feel concerning the perception that the majority of Portuguese are against you?
KMC says that negative claims are very distressing and bothering.
Judge – Do you feel rather uncomfortable, ashamed?
KMC replies that "ashamed" is not quite the right word for it. She clarifies that it makes her lose confidence.
Judge asks whether she suffered because the people thought that they were cowards for having hidden the body.
KMC, after a silence, says that people thought much worse than that.
 
Judge – Did that cause you insomnia?
KMC says that it happened obviously, but that she isn't no more as she was, destroyed. She says that she cried, that the book brought her pain and emotion while she was desperate to find Madeleine.
 
Judge – Do the twins know about the book, the documentary?
KMC answers that of course they use computers at school and at home and she has to be very careful and try to supervise the information they get A yes or no would do here Kate.
Judge – Do they have a global idea about what people say?
KMC mentions that her son, in October asked her why Mr Amaral said that they hid Madeleine. She answered that there were many stupid things in his book.
Judge – How did your son know about that? How was it possible if you were careful to prevent access to the book?
KMC thinks he heard it on the radio, in the school bus.
Judge – So what did you do?
KMC says that they spoke to David Trickey who advised them to let the twins make comments and just answer when they ask questions. She says that they had to contact the school in case a child would tell the twins about something that is in the book. She says that the book is noxious for adults and must be even more damaging for children.
Judge asks if KMC had a depression.
KMC says no, but of course she had been depressed.
Judge – Clinically?
KMC – No.So no great proof of devastation then, merely common-or-garden feeling a bit down in the dumps
Judge – Did you publicly say that you wished you were in a coma to forget the pain?
KMC – Yes.
Judge – In what circumstances? Was it linked to the disappearance of Madeleine or to the book and the documentary?
KMC replies that the pain was increased by the book.
The judge asks how old the twins are (9) and when they started school (2009).
 
Isabel Duarte (for the plaintiffs) – Was there a reaction to the book and the documentary in the UK?
Judge reformulates but keeps the question
KMC says that there were a bit less reactions than in Portugal and that it was because of the media who accepted what the book said and published reports upon it. People on the Web and through e-mails were stimulated to insult them, like the Madeleine Foundation, and created a lot of damages. As Gonçalo Amaral was the coordinator of the investigation, it provided him credibility and it intensified the vilification of them.
 
Judge – What is the Madeleine Foundation?
KMC explains that it's a group of people who essentially promotes theories up to the point of trying to manipulate people in their village.
Judge – What relation is there between this group and the book?
KMC says there is none, but they invited Gonçalo Amaral. She thinks that he didn't go.
Judge – This group was created because of the book?
KMC – No, it existed before the book was published. She says that obviously the book strengthened them.
 
Isabel Duarte says she wants KMC to speak of the threats. The judge asks from who, from where, but as Isabel Duarte doesn't known What kind of a solicitor wouldn't know this? Or perhaps because the "threats" are non existent? the judge rejects this question because it is not within the scope of the trial.
 
The judge gets back to the conversation with Sean and asks whether he left it at that.
KMC says it occurred only then, after that they followed the Trickey's advice.
Judge – Did Sean speak again to you about it?
KMC – No.So the child mentions it only once, clearly not overly concerned about it then. So a huge exaggeration made by Kate about the Sean incident
 
Gonçalo Amaral's new lawyer, Miguel Cruz Rodrigues, wants to know what caused more distress to KMC.
The judge rephrases – What disturbed you more: the disappearance of your daughter, the fact you were made arguido or the reason for this trial, i.e the book and the documentary?
KMC says there's nothing worse than the abduction of a child, but that the rest intensified the pain and that there are limits to what a person can bear.
 
MCR mentions the topic of the social (image) destruction. The judge confirms that it is an issue to establish or refute.
Judge – Did you have the support of famous people like Angelina Jolie?
KMC says that she has no idea about Angelina Jolie, but knows that renowned people supported them.
 
MCR mentions a celebration that gathered 20 thousand people in order to pray on the 8th of December 2008
KMC doesn't remember and asks where it was.
MCR says it was in the UK.
KMC says that there are obviously people who pray.
 
MCR mentions that KMC became an ambassador for Missing People in July 2012. Judge repeats the question.
KMC – Yes.
 
MCR mentions a gala party in January 2010 to commemorate 1000 days. Does she remember?
KMC – Yes.
 
The judge tells KMC that she's free to leave or to remain in the Court room. She remains there, sitting next to her lawyer.
And so it ended So claims about public reputation blown out of the water completely. Not looking good is it Kate?

 

With many thanks to QV and Astro for review

So apart from a little whinge about feeling devastated, KATE COULD NOT PROVIDE ONE SINGLE MATERIAL PIECE OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT HER CLAIMS.

And this after 5 years preparation time. What a very very lame effort.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by missmar1 on 10.07.14 19:28

@Brian Griffin wrote:
@SuspiciousMinds wrote:If I've got this right, if the McCanns lose this case they are going to have to pay all the costs for the last five years' of court cases etc. and possibly also the costs of the latest shenanigans on top. I imagine that this is not likely to be cheap?

As the Fund exists to support Madeleine's family, presumably there will be no legal objection to them paying the costs out of it. But it would be a stinger of a question if a journalist pointed out to them that thousands of people had donated all this money to them on the understanding that it would help the fund to search for Madeleine, and instead they had wasted it on a feeble attempt to protect their own reputations against a book that had been found to be neither libellous or damaging. Ethically, how could they sit there and justify paying the costs out of the Fund? It will turn even more people against them.

That's if they even plan to pay the costs back if they lose.

And if the book is officially not libellous and not damaging according to the Portuguese courts, might there finally be an British publisher who is prepared to print it in English and put it in the bookshops? If, as we suspect, the Fund is low on cash and then all the court costs have to be paid out of what is left, then the McCanns will struggle to afford yet another court case. Would they have to put up with seeing the Truth of the Lie at the top of the bestseller charts and Goncalo Amaral swanning about in a flash car and doing UK television interviews with fawning presenters hanging onto his every word?!

(OMG, I want that to happen so much that it hurts...!   Mrs  )
That's mean!  winkwink


 Unless they have all jumped ship,  there may still a few wealthy benefactors who will help foot the bill for the Mccann's should they lose this trial .

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Versailles on 10.07.14 19:29

@aquila wrote:
@Versailles wrote:Will a portuguese court be more in favour of a Portuguese ex police man than two British parents who have caused so much fuss through the years?

I know the official answer will be no, but I still have hope.
Nice try with that innocent but loaded question that suggests a Portuguese court is potentially bent and a judge is biased.

Nice try.
I did not try anything. I hope the judge believes a policeman who has no reasons to lie, over the two Mccanns.
The judge will have to favour one of them, in order to make a decision, and I hope that is Aramal.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Versailles on 10.07.14 19:33

@Justformaddie wrote:
@Versailles wrote:Will a portuguese court be more in favour of a Portuguese ex police man than two British parents who have caused so much fuss through the years?

I know the official answer will be no, but I still have hope.
If that was the case then I don't think GA would've been removed from the investigation IMO
I dont know enough of this case, so I dont know why he was removed. It surely cant have been because he thought the parents were guilty..?

Seeing now,  i think my wording was wrong (english is my third language) I used the words "in favour" like I will use the word "believe" , but I think I was wrong.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by missmar1 on 10.07.14 19:34

@ShuBob wrote:I'm now confused about the point of this trial.

If it's not to establish whether what's written in the book is true or not but simply to find out if it damaged the couple, does that then mean that even in a case where the truth has been establish before the case is brought to court, the plaintiff can bring a case simply because the truth is detrimental to them?  i don\'t know 


Yes, I'm confused about that too  -  so anyone can say they have been affected by a person -even if its been proved that same person has been telling the truth  ?

Eta, in other words a person can claim damages for their suffering even if has been proved they are guilty of the crime they have been accused of ?

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The effect of the book & documentary??

Post by BigRon on 10.07.14 19:35

How can the McC's prove the effect of the book & the documentary? Kate says that the GA's actions could have stirred up ill feeling towards her & Gerry among the Portuguese but is this true? The Portuguese have never been well disposed to the McC's. And even if true it would be impossible for the judge to measure this effect.

Did the book cause so much distress that it stopped her & Gerry from searching? Er, no as they have never searched for Maddie themselves anyway.
Did the book cause donations to their fund stop? No - they had loads of money to throw away on Private Detectives, mortgage payments etc
Did the book contain anything that was not available for Sean and Amelie to read later? No - the book just re-iterated the position of the official PJ investigation - the files of which were published in their entirety online.

So by bringing GA's theories into the public eye time and again the McC's are surely just inviting trouble for themselves? And Op Grange has recently proved that even an extensive review by a team of British 'experts' costing millions of pounds has not moved the investigation on - so Amaral's actions even if they did have a negative effect would not have mattered anyway.

I am approaching this from the angle that Kate & Gerry are bringing this prosecution not because of any defamation of them but because the investigation has somehow been hindered? Hope I have understood that point correctly. If so then I can't see how K&G could logically ever hope to win??

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Guest on 10.07.14 19:41

@IAmNotMerylStreep wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:There's no more questions and the Judge is about to dismiss the plaintiff when GMC claims that he has something to say.
The judge says that in a civil trial the parties aren't allowed to spontaneous depositions. But she allows him: please do speak!
GMC says that he wants to make a comment about the dogs; he wants to make it clear that it is not a fact that they detected blood...
The judge interrupts him – The issue here isn't not to elucidate what actually happened. The perspective, in this trial, is to determine whether the book and the documentary affected the plaintiffs.
GMC – But the book mentions facts that aren't true.
The judge – The point isn't to establish whether things are true or not, this is not the issue. We want to know whether we are in the juridical remit of offence to persons. For this it's not necessary to know what the truth is. As a judge I'm not supposed to stand in for a criminal investigation.

And so it ended

I don't like the sound of that. So, providing the McC's say the book offended them, they can get £1million quid?

Me neither. If they only have to prove they were hurt by the book then that represents a significant shifting of the goalposts, imo. And not in a "McCanns score an own goal" sort of way.

Sounds a bit subjective to me, so difficult to prove against their claims. Hmm.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by ultimaThule on 10.07.14 19:44

Ladyinred wrote:Doctors in the UK are not allowed to self-prescribe and, except in emergencies, they do not provide treatment for their relatives, is.

Yes, agree, but nevertheless they do.

Any who do are liable to find themselves appearing before a Fitness to Practise Panel of the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Sevice, Lir .  

These are GMC guidelines:

"Wherever possible you must avoid prescribing for yourself or anyone with whom you have a close personal relationship.

- Controlled medicines present particular dangers, occasionally associated with drug misuse, addiction and misconduct. You must not prescribe a controlled medicine for yourself or someone close to you unless:

a. no other person with the legal right to prescribe is available to assess and prescribe without a delay which would put your, or the patient’s, life or health at risk or cause unacceptable pain or distress, and

b. the treatment is immediately necessary to:

i save a life

ii avoid serious deterioration in health, or

iii alleviate otherwise uncontrollable pain or distress.

- If you prescribe for yourself or someone close to you you must:

a. make a clear record at the same time or as soon as possible afterwards. The record should include your relationship to the patient (where relevant) and the reason it was necessary for you to prescribe.

b. tell your own or the patient’s general practitioner (and others treating you or the patient, where relevant) what medicines you have prescribed and any other information necessary for continuing care, unless (in the case of prescribing for somebody close to you) they object.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by aquila on 10.07.14 19:47

snipped

GMC – But the book mentions facts that aren't true.
The judge – The point isn't to establish whether things are true or not, this is not the issue. We want to know whether we are in the juridical remit of offence to persons. For this it's not necessary to know what the truth is. As a judge I'm not supposed to stand in for a criminal investigation.

....................................................................


Why not just isolate this remark from the judge as a singular comment to GM's statement.

IMO that's all it was and is.

ETA: The judge was having no nonsense. Only things pertinent to the claim.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by BlueBag on 10.07.14 19:50

The truth is always offensive to someone.

I defend people's right to offend.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by plebgate on 10.07.14 20:18

Snipped from Joana's transcript of court proceedings:

"The judge interrupts him – The issue here isn't not to elucidate what actually happened. The perspective, in this trial, is to determine whether the book and the documentary affected the plaintiffs."

 This being the case, would expert witnesses/documentation be needed to be provided to the court?


edited to change wording 2nd sentence.  Wasn't clear originally.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by tigger on 10.07.14 20:22

Quote:

Judge – Have you observed that people thought differently of you after the publication of the book?
GMC notes that it is difficult to answer because this requires knowing what the people thought before.

Unquote

 spit coffee  so one can take it that he observed no change in behaviour, people still walked out of a room when he entered it?

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 10.07.14 20:25

Dee Coy wrote:
@IAmNotMerylStreep wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:There's no more questions and the Judge is about to dismiss the plaintiff when GMC claims that he has something to say.
The judge says that in a civil trial the parties aren't allowed to spontaneous depositions. But she allows him: please do speak!
GMC says that he wants to make a comment about the dogs; he wants to make it clear that it is not a fact that they detected blood...
The judge interrupts him – The issue here isn't not to elucidate what actually happened. The perspective, in this trial, is to determine whether the book and the documentary affected the plaintiffs.
GMC – But the book mentions facts that aren't true.
The judge – The point isn't to establish whether things are true or not, this is not the issue. We want to know whether we are in the juridical remit of offence to persons. For this it's not necessary to know what the truth is. As a judge I'm not supposed to stand in for a criminal investigation.

And so it ended

I don't like the sound of that. So, providing the McC's say the book offended them, they can get £1million quid?

Me neither. If they only have to prove they were hurt by the book then that represents a significant shifting of the goalposts, imo. And not in a "McCanns score an own goal" sort of way.

Sounds a bit subjective to me, so difficult to prove against their claims. Hmm.

I would say the McCanns have made a rubbish job of substantiating their claims so far. No clinical depression, Gerry able to function at work, no proof of any incident of actual damage to them, still ambassadors and going to galas etc, Leveson, SY review still going on so clearly search not hampered, going on fun runs and so it goes on. I don't think they have provided one serious bit of proof that it has had any effect on them at all, and for that they want a million euros.

I feel sure the judge will rule against them.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by SixMillionQuid on 10.07.14 20:29

@plebgate wrote:Snipped from Joana's transcript of court proceedings:

"The judge interrupts him – The issue here isn't not to elucidate what actually happened. The perspective, in this trial, is to determine whether the book and the documentary affected the plaintiffs."

 This being the case, then expert witnesses/documentation would need to be provided to the court?

No psychiatric reports, no medication, they and the twins are still able to go about their daily business. Hopefully the judge will be aware that the book hasn't told them things they didn't already know before it was released, therefore they can't argue it's had a massive impact on their lives.

EDIT: @Smokeandmirrors same line of thinking.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by plebgate on 10.07.14 20:31

@tigger wrote:Quote:

Judge – Have you observed that people thought differently of you after the publication of the book?
GMC notes that it is difficult to answer because this requires knowing what the people thought before.

Unquote

 spit coffee  so one can take it that he observed no change in behaviour, people still walked out  of a room when he entered it?
Wouldn't the same line of (his) thinking apply to whether people were looking for Maddie  after the book was published.

In other words, wouldn't they have needed to know how many people were looking for Maddie before the book was published and how many were looking for Maddie after the book was published?

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Justformaddie on 10.07.14 20:32

Does km not realise it was when she refused to answer the 48 questions and ran back to the uk that, IMO, made people rethink the truth of a lie and that she was the one who hindered the search? She seems to forget that whilst she was jogging, playing tennis and traveling the world the rest of pdl were out searching, taking time off work to find her daughter who she neglected. All IMO
Maybe she expects pdl to still take time off work to search for maddie whilst they travel and sit on TV sofas IMO

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by ultimaThule on 10.07.14 20:38

@tigger wrote:Quote:

Judge – Have you observed that people thought differently of you after the publication of the book?
GMC notes that it is difficult to answer because this requires knowing what the people thought before.

Unquote

 spit coffee  so one can take it that he observed no change in behaviour, people still walked out  of a room when he entered it?

I would hazard a guess that perceptiveness is not of one of GM's attributes and that when others stampede exit as he enters a room, he simply assumes they need as many bathroom breaks as he does,  tigger.  sarcastic

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by canada12 on 10.07.14 20:44

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
I would say the McCanns have made a rubbish job of substantiating their claims so far. No clinical depression, Gerry able to function at work, no proof of any incident of actual damage to them, still ambassadors and going to galas etc, Leveson, SY review still going on so clearly search not hampered, going on fun runs and so it goes on. I don't think they have provided one serious bit of proof that it has had any effect on them at all, and for that they want a million euros.

I feel sure the judge will rule against them.

I feel the same way. So far all they've really proved is that the book made them unhappy and made their children ask questions. Any book can do that. Why not sue every writer that's ever written anything that made them feel the slightest bit cheesed off?

I think both Kate and Gerry summed it up well when they were asked whether they had any depression or inability to sleep. Both responded they had, but it was temporary. That in itself seals the verdict for me. They were temporarily upset but now they're not, so no long standing ill-effects, case closed.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by canada12 on 10.07.14 20:49

@Justformaddie wrote:Does km not realise it was when she refused to answer the 48 questions and ran back to the uk that, IMO, made people rethink the truth of a lie and that she was the one who hindered the search? She seems to forget that whilst she was jogging, playing tennis and traveling the world the rest of pdl were out searching, taking time off work to find her daughter who she neglected. All IMO
Maybe she expects pdl to still take time off work to search for maddie whilst they travel and sit on TV sofas IMO
Requesting that people "search for Madeleine" is and always was a voluntary thing for people to do, if they were so inclined. All the McCanns could do was request this favour of "people" - it was never something that the general public were hired to do, nor were they compensated in any way for this. If people had been hired to search for Madeleine or if there had been some compensation paid, and the McCanns had a quantitative sum total of the numbers of people who were employed to do this; and if after GA's book was published those same people lost their incentive, or came to Kate and Gerry and said, we no longer believe in this search because of this book, then I think they might have a sliver of a case to argue. But since anyone who might have been looking for Madeleine was a subjective number, and there is no verification of who was looking before as opposed to who was looking afterwards, and particularly because it was a voluntary thing done as a favour to the McCanns or for peoples' own personal feelings, I don't think Kate and Gerry can logically argue that the "search for Madeleine" has been harmed in any way by GA's book.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by SuspiciousMinds on 10.07.14 21:00

QUOTE: "GMC explains that it states right at the beginning that Madeleine is dead, that there was no abduction, that he and his wife are liars, that they are cold and ruthless enough to hide a body instead of rending assistance. There's no evidence of that and the evidence that the documentary presents doesn't match."

See, this is what bugs me, time and time again. Do they ever, ever just come out and deny that they hid the body? It's always "there is no evidence" or "we didn't kill her" or "it's ludicrous" - they never seem to deny irrevocably the thing they're actually being accused of.

"No evidence" does not mean they didn't do it - it just means no-one is capable of proving in court that they actually did do it. Why is the lack of evidence so much more important to them than just simply telling the world, "We didn't do it"?


Put yourself in that situation. What would trip from your lips?

1. "Someone said my child is dead, there was no abduction, my wife and I are cold, ruthless liars, and we hid her body. There is no evidence of that."

2. "Someone said my child is dead, there was no abduction, my wife and I are cold, ruthless liars, and we hid her body. It's wicked, untrue rubbish - we love our children with all our hearts, and we would never, ever do anything like that."


Actually, the first option is even more weird than I thought at first, because it suggests that Gerry doesn't KNOW if he and his wife are cold, ruthless liars who hid the body, but that he could be persuaded to believe it if someone showed him some evidence!

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by JohnyT on 10.07.14 21:01

...........and anyway, even if I'd read the book and then  thought I'd spotted Maddie or had some information even, I would still report the incident/info. Therefore, the book would have no effect to me personally.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by JohnyT on 10.07.14 21:04

@SuspiciousMinds wrote:QUOTE: "GMC explains that it states right at the beginning that Madeleine is dead, that there was no abduction, that he and his wife are liars, that they are cold and ruthless enough to hide a body instead of rending assistance. There's no evidence of that and the evidence that the documentary presents doesn't match."

See, this is what bugs me, time and time again. Do they ever, ever just come out and deny that they hid the body? It's always "there is no evidence" or "we didn't kill her" or "it's ludicrous" - they never seem to deny irrevocably the thing they're actually being accused of.

"No evidence" does not mean they didn't do it - it just means no-one is capable of proving in court that they actually did do it. Why is the lack of evidence so much more important to them than just simply telling the world, "We didn't do it"?


Put yourself in that situation. What would trip from your lips?

1. "Someone said my child is dead, there was no abduction, my wife and I are cold, ruthless liars, and we hid her body. There is no evidence of that."

2. "Someone said my child is dead, there was no abduction, my wife and I are cold, ruthless liars, and we hid her body. It's wicked, untrue rubbish - we love our children with all our hearts, and we would never, ever do anything like that."


Actually, the first option is even more weird than I thought at first, because it suggests that Gerry doesn't KNOW if he and his wife are cold, ruthless liars who hid the body, but that he could be persuaded to believe it if someone showed him some evidence!
Agreed.....I'd blow the roof in a situation like this and somebody accused me of this (if I hadn't done it of course)

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by juliet on 10.07.14 21:08

Obviously the McCanns can't bang on about how they have been made mentally ill, depressed, insomniac etc as they know people will question their competence to care for the twins. They have made NO case for suffering and if they win it can only point to corruption on an international scale.

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Re: LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Post by Iamtheseeker on 10.07.14 21:09

"NO EVIDENCE " means they haven't been caught yet ? big grin

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